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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 13, 2018 2:53:52 GMT
It doesn't matter that 50% of Muslims want homosexuality made illegal? Really? And its only a "stupid question" because you don't want to face the reality of the answer you would have to give. What does it matter what 50% of a small percentage of a population thinks, if they do not have the requisite power or influence in your country to mandate changes to that effect? If they, or anyone else act on those views by being discriminatory, bigoted or violent, than the British justice system has the means to prosecute and punish the individuals. Of course it is a stupid question, starting with the above and moving on to the fact that you have rigid conflated views that are racist and bigoted which means it is a loaded question. I read your most recent response to Film Flaneur and this was evident in the way you posed your own point of view from a rigid personal viewpoint of being an oppressed, (depressed) white xenophobic male. You are a true 'conservative' in that you don't want change. You don't want women, blacks, disabled people, people of different religions to have an egalitarian level playing field to live their lives. I feel sorry for you that you have such a poisonous, limited, truly bigoted viewpoint. It seems to make you unhappy and bitter towards other people who in general, do you no harm. You are scared and so scaremonger about groups of people and I find you more frightening than any moderate, minding their own business Muslim who emigrates for a better life for themselves and their families. That you conflate this with ISIS, alleged Muslim gangs and other criminal elements says more about you being an alarmist bigot with Nazi tendencies. ( yes Godwin's Law applies here ) Goz, it is 1,500,000 people in the UK. So what happens when the population doubles or trebles. That is the question you keep avoiding. Do you think we will see more Sharia Patrols or less? islam isn't a race. Although that is rich coming from the person who made four threads attacking Christianity. So why is it ok for you to criticise Christianity, but racist if I criticise Islam? This is because you are either thick or you can't read. Or both. I have stated over and over that individual rights take precedence over group rights. I have said over and over the only thing that matters is a persons character and ability. I have always spoke in defence of freedom of expression. I have said that the only thing that should matter in the work place is merit. The fact that you cannot grasp these basic liberal principles is frankly pathetic. And where have I ever mentioned the disable you deranged clown?
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 13, 2018 2:59:28 GMT
I read your most recent response to Film Flaneur and this was evident in the way you posed your own point of view from a rigid personal viewpoint of being an oppressed, (depressed) white xenophobic male. Its also noticeable that, instead of real answers, all our Islamophobic friend can offer back now is self-justification, misrepresentation and extended mockery. The problem is not with more Muslims who, everyone agrees, are overwhelmingly peaceful and law abiding. The problem is with people like Thor, with their distrust and fear of 'the other'. I have just had a related exchange on another board, that time with someone obsessing about the 'Jewish Mafia' who, apparently force 'non-Aryan' culture onto a reluctant populace as part of a plot to subvert values etc. Two sides to the same coin, I guess. Ah well. Really? So where exactly is my distrust of Jews, Hindus, Sikhs. Indians, Chinese, West Indians, Polish? Where is my fear of the other regarding these groups? Why have I spoken in defence of Ex_Muslims who now fear for there lives in this bloody country. They are Pakistanis, shouldn't I fear and hate them? Moron. Could it be you need to keep conflating race and religion, because you don't actually have an argument in defence of Islam? Sound more like it.
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Post by bluerisk on Jan 13, 2018 3:29:53 GMT
And how many follow the old gods?
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Post by goz on Jan 13, 2018 3:50:20 GMT
What does it matter what 50% of a small percentage of a population thinks, if they do not have the requisite power or influence in your country to mandate changes to that effect? If they, or anyone else act on those views by being discriminatory, bigoted or violent, than the British justice system has the means to prosecute and punish the individuals. Of course it is a stupid question, starting with the above and moving on to the fact that you have rigid conflated views that are racist and bigoted which means it is a loaded question. I read your most recent response to Film Flaneur and this was evident in the way you posed your own point of view from a rigid personal viewpoint of being an oppressed, (depressed) white xenophobic male. You are a true 'conservative' in that you don't want change. You don't want women, blacks, disabled people, people of different religions to have an egalitarian level playing field to live their lives. I feel sorry for you that you have such a poisonous, limited, truly bigoted viewpoint. It seems to make you unhappy and bitter towards other people who in general, do you no harm. You are scared and so scaremonger about groups of people and I find you more frightening than any moderate, minding their own business Muslim who emigrates for a better life for themselves and their families. That you conflate this with ISIS, alleged Muslim gangs and other criminal elements says more about you being an alarmist bigot with Nazi tendencies. ( yes Godwin's Law applies here ) Goz, it is 1,500,000 people in the UK. So what happens when the population doubles or trebles. That is the question you keep avoiding. Do you think we will see more Sharia Patrols or less? islam isn't a race. Although that is rich coming from the person who made four threads attacking Christianity. So why is it ok for you to criticise Christianity, but racist if I criticise Islam? This is because you are either thick or you can't read. Or both. I have stated over and over that individual rights take precedence over group rights. I have said over and over the only thing that matters is a persons character and ability. I have always spoke in defence of freedom of expression. I have said that the only thing that should matter in the work place is merit. The fact that you cannot grasp these basic liberal principles is frankly pathetic. And where have I ever mentioned the disable you deranged clown? What happens when (and if) the population of Muslims doubles or triples? There will then be a slightly higher percentage of Muslims in the UK. MANY more will be second and third generation and more Anglicized in terms of moderation of their beliefs and assimilation into the local culture. It is a fact that assimilation happens especially amongst the younger generations. People like you assume the opposite or at the very least that their Muslim religion and culture remains the same as their parent's generation. This is just plain NOT true. SO, what I said previously about UK legal system and culture prevailing and not being under threat, will become increasingly true, unless there is another HUGE Muslim migration which is unlikely. Britain leaving Brexit means no EU Muslims can migrate, so where will these hoards emanate from? Yes, I believe Christians and Muslims ( and some others) are equally religiously deluded, though I mainly only have issue with the ones whose faith means detrimental outcomes for others. Moderate Muslims and Christians I have no problem with as long as their mania does not affect me. Secular societies like ours are great like that, don't you think?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 4:53:29 GMT
]I was aware that the blasphemy law was abolished in 2008, however if you think that we aren't headed for another blasphemy law created specially to protect Muslims, then you're being very naive. You are entitled to your opinion. But the 'heading towards' you identify is not something I recognise, more a movement in society to similarly equalise the treatment of all religions under the law. (Hence the landmark repeal of the blasphemy law, which was aimed principally in regards to protecting Christianity, in the usual form of the Church of England. If you don't recognise the trend towards a blasphemy law, then you're not paying attention. The Charlie Hebdo cartoons (the ones that precipitated the massacre) could not have been printed in the UK, because they would have been deemed a hate crime. At the moment, there's a de facto blasphemy law concerning Islam. So the protests against The Satanic Verses is just a 'right wing trope' in Britain? And the Danish cartoons, etc? It isn't Christians who are calling for blasphemy laws in this country though, is it? And yes, Keith Vaz was suggesting that blasphemy laws protect all religions, but it's quite clear that most of the demand is coming from the Muslim community, and most Christian nations either don't have blasphemy laws, or have blasphemy laws which are never used, whereas most Muslim nations have very strict blasphemy laws, which are militantly enforced. "Peaceful and law-abiding" isn't the issue; it's the fact that the laws are going to be shaped to cater to the hyper-sensitive demands of Muslims. Interesting how "peaceful and law-abiding" isn't the baseline that you seem to set for white Christians, because otherwise it's doubtful that I'd have ever seen you criticise religion or religious groups on this forum.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 4:57:42 GMT
goz: There's a lot of evidence which suggests that the younger, British born generations of Muslims are actually more religiously conservative than the immigrants. Religion always has detrimental outcomes for others, because it shapes a person's ideas about how society should be run, and in turn, influences government policy.
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Post by goz on Jan 13, 2018 5:44:19 GMT
goz : There's a lot of evidence which suggests that the younger, British born generations of Muslims are actually more religiously conservative than the immigrants. Religion always has detrimental outcomes for others, because it shapes a person's ideas about how society should be run, and in turn, influences government policy. A LOT of evidence?
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 13, 2018 13:01:20 GMT
gozPresent any evidence that Muslim become more integrated. There is none. This is just something people assert.And even if you are correct, that means nothing to the issue of immigration, which is the greatest source of Islamic growth. Why do we need to wait three generations to get a population that doesn't think gays should be killed and women are second class citizens? You literally have no idea what you are talking about. The majority of Muslims in the UK don't come from the EU. They are from Pakistan, Somalia and Bangladesh. Brexit means nothing to this. www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2nlIfn8tNALook at the integration.
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Post by tickingmask on Jan 13, 2018 15:37:42 GMT
Moderate ... Christians I have no problem with as long as their mania does not affect me. Well, that's a big fat lie right there. I've lost count of the number of posts you've raised finding fault with Christians on pretty much anything and everything.
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Post by tickingmask on Jan 13, 2018 15:41:52 GMT
Its also noticeable that, instead of real answers, all our Islamophobic friend can offer back now is self-justification, misrepresentation and extended mockery. So when he told you that you totally mangled those percentage figures that you posted several times, which of those three did that come under? I notice you didn't even bother to acknowledge that, let alone attempt to justify or clarify the figures you quoted.
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Post by goz on Jan 13, 2018 22:10:33 GMT
Moderate ... Christians I have no problem with as long as their mania does not affect me. Well, that's a big fat lie right there. I've lost count of the number of posts you've raised finding fault with Christians on pretty much anything and everything. ...moderate...who mind their own business, don't rape children, don't stop third world countries using condoms, aren't massive hypocrites because they talk about loving Jesus and emulating him and yet they vilify homosexuals etc....no problem with those Christians. The others are just as bad as Muslims who commit moral atrocities.
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Post by goz on Jan 13, 2018 22:21:53 GMT
goz Present any evidence that Muslim become more integrated. There is none. This is just something people assert.And even if you are correct, that means nothing to the issue of immigration, which is the greatest source of Islamic growth. Why do we need to wait three generations to get a population that doesn't think gays should be killed and women are second class citizens? You literally have no idea what you are talking about. The majority of Muslims in the UK don't come from the EU. They are from Pakistan, Somalia and Bangladesh. Brexit means nothing to this. www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2nlIfn8tNALook at the integration. It is important to understand the differences between assimilation and integration as set out in this article. sites.cardiff.ac.uk/islamukcentre/rera/online-teaching-resources/muslims-in-britain-online-course/module-4-contemporary-debates/assimilation-vs-integration/BTW you forgot to say "shitholes like Pakistan, Somalia and Bangladesh" like your fellow neoNazi in the USA! Of course immigrants integrate into the new society, and yes it takes time and it is not just being Muslim, butt coping with cultural differences as well. Please try and define your bigotry more accurately, in future! BTW, I never look at shitty YouTube propaganda videos. Just ask Erjenious!
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Post by tickingmask on Jan 13, 2018 22:43:28 GMT
no problem with those Christians. Yes, you do, stop lying. You have a problem with all Christians, otherwise why else would you keep resorting to a diatribe of incoherent verbal diahorrea about Christianity at every possible opportunity? Perhaps you think they are all child-raping, condom-banning, hypocritical homophobes - I don't know, but there's some deep-seated psychological problem going on with you which you appear to be unable to admit to yourself.
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Post by goz on Jan 13, 2018 23:00:54 GMT
no problem with those Christians. Yes, you do, stop lying. You have a problem with all Christians, otherwise why else would you keep resorting to a diatribe of incoherent verbal diahorrea about Christianity at every possible opportunity? Perhaps you think they are all child-raping, condom-banning, hypocritical homophobes - I don't know, but there's some deep-seated psychological problem going on with you which you appear to be unable to admit to yourself. How cute! A Christian like you, telling me what I think! Typical, and amusing!
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 14, 2018 1:37:42 GMT
goz Present any evidence that Muslim become more integrated. There is none. This is just something people assert.And even if you are correct, that means nothing to the issue of immigration, which is the greatest source of Islamic growth. Why do we need to wait three generations to get a population that doesn't think gays should be killed and women are second class citizens? You literally have no idea what you are talking about. The majority of Muslims in the UK don't come from the EU. They are from Pakistan, Somalia and Bangladesh. Brexit means nothing to this. www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2nlIfn8tNALook at the integration. It is important to understand the differences between assimilation and integration as set out in this article. sites.cardiff.ac.uk/islamukcentre/rera/online-teaching-resources/muslims-in-britain-online-course/module-4-contemporary-debates/assimilation-vs-integration/BTW you forgot to say "shitholes like Pakistan, Somalia and Bangladesh" like your fellow neoNazi in the USA! Of course immigrants integrate into the new society, and yes it takes time and it is not just being Muslim, butt coping with cultural differences as well. Please try and define your bigotry more accurately, in future! BTW, I never look at shitty YouTube propaganda videos. Just ask Erjenious! They aren't doing either Goz. Why do you suppose even Sweden is admitting it made a mistake in importing the numbers it has? And, yes, they are shitholes. Would you want to live in any of those places? Although, I guess you're right, Trump is literally the first world leader to use that term, probably the first person ever, to use a derogatory phrase to describe shithole places in the World. Pakistan still has regional, tribal councils that hand out public gang rape as punishment, honour killings and honour raping is an actual thing. That got your feminist outrage going? Or does them being brown mean it doesn't count because low expectations? It is actively oppressing the people of the Baluchistan region. It executes people for blasphemy. Its a shithole And if you are going to throw around terms like "Nazi" like every tired left out there, at least try to back it up. I doubt you will even try. #And good work figuring out the video was propaganda without watching it.
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 14, 2018 2:35:31 GMT
no problem with those Christians. Yes, you do, stop lying. You have a problem with all Christians, otherwise why else would you keep resorting to a diatribe of incoherent verbal diahorrea about Christianity at every possible opportunity? Perhaps you think they are all child-raping, condom-banning, hypocritical homophobes - I don't know, but there's some deep-seated psychological problem going on with you which you appear to be unable to admit to yourself. Here is our Goz on Christian opposition to same sex marriage "...This' religious freedom' seems to boil down to a 'right' to discriminate against these same sex couples, which is against our National Anti-Discrimination Laws in this country, so all the bigots are asking for an exemption. Is this bigotry and hatred and discrimination really what Jesus preached?" Here is our Goz on polls showing 50% of UK Muslims want homosexuality made illegal "What does it matter what 50% of a small percentage of a population thinks, if they do not have the requisite power or influence in your country to mandate changes to that effect?...." Here is our Goz reacting to me pointing out that 50% of Muslims want homosexuality made illegal "So just regular fear mongering and bigotry!" So in the mind of Goz, it is bigoted to point out hat Muslims don't like gays and it doesn't matter because there aren't many of them. But Christians are bigots for not liking gays and its totally fine to call them out for it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 2:49:09 GMT
goz : There's a lot of evidence which suggests that the younger, British born generations of Muslims are actually more religiously conservative than the immigrants. Religion always has detrimental outcomes for others, because it shapes a person's ideas about how society should be run, and in turn, influences government policy. A LOT of evidence? There is various evidence to show that the attitudes of young Muslims are not liberalising. Including the survey that thorshairspray cites. It's just interesting how you and others become so pro-religion when it's Muslims in question, rather than Christians.
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Post by goz on Jan 14, 2018 7:33:18 GMT
There is various evidence to show that the attitudes of young Muslims are not liberalising. Including the survey that thorshairspray cites. It's just interesting how you and others become so pro-religion when it's Muslims in question, rather than Christians. I am never pro-religion. I accept others' right to their beliefs as long as it does no harm ie moderate private religious people of any denomination who don't prosthelytise.
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Post by goz on Jan 14, 2018 7:34:45 GMT
Yes, you do, stop lying. You have a problem with all Christians, otherwise why else would you keep resorting to a diatribe of incoherent verbal diahorrea about Christianity at every possible opportunity? Perhaps you think they are all child-raping, condom-banning, hypocritical homophobes - I don't know, but there's some deep-seated psychological problem going on with you which you appear to be unable to admit to yourself. Here is our Goz on Christian opposition to same sex marriage "...This' religious freedom' seems to boil down to a 'right' to discriminate against these same sex couples, which is against our National Anti-Discrimination Laws in this country, so all the bigots are asking for an exemption. Is this bigotry and hatred and discrimination really what Jesus preached?" Here is our Goz on polls showing 50% of UK Muslims want homosexuality made illegal "What does it matter what 50% of a small percentage of a population thinks, if they do not have the requisite power or influence in your country to mandate changes to that effect?...." Here is our Goz reacting to me pointing out that 50% of Muslims want homosexuality made illegal "So just regular fear mongering and bigotry!" So in the mind of Goz, it is bigoted to point out hat Muslims don't like gays and it doesn't matter because there aren't many of them. But Christians are bigots for not liking gays and its totally fine to call them out for it. ditto comment to Mic
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 8:32:19 GMT
There is various evidence to show that the attitudes of young Muslims are not liberalising. Including the survey that thorshairspray cites. It's just interesting how you and others become so pro-religion when it's Muslims in question, rather than Christians. I am never pro-religion. I accept others' right to their beliefs as long as it does no harm ie moderate private religious people of any denomination who don't prosthelytise. But it's obvious that your holding Muslims to a much different standard of what is 'moderate' and acceptable than you are with Christians. If we're able to tell Christians to effectively 'get with the program' and abandon ancient superstitions, why are so many of those people not able to extend that to Muslims as well? And everyone accepts the right of others to have religious belief (apart from Muslims respecting others' rights to not be a Muslim, in Islamic majority nations). That isn't really an issue; merely the fact that more always tends to be expected from Christians.
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