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Post by goz on Jan 30, 2018 2:16:28 GMT
The words raise awareness in the press and popular culture more quickly and effectively than waiting for every misogynistic sod to screw up by being rude to all the womenfolk they come in contact with! And they (maybe, although I see a lot of backlash about it from otherwise perfectly egalatarian men) may raise awareness, or they may be treated as nonsense and ignored, but even if they achieve everything you want, was it really the way you wanted to do it? especially as, in your example, a far better point can be made without the words. The way I see it ( and I do see it in a slightly humourous mocking tone much like the concept of 'man-flu) is that it is like publicity. There is no such thing as bad publicity as it always raises awareness and informs and starts conversations like this one. It is also a lighter add on to the current #me too etc in which the women are very concertedly raising awareness of feminist issues of bullying and sexual harassment in the workplace. This is sort of the opposite as men ignore women in an arrogant manner as if they are of a lesser value in a traditionally male or professional setting.
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Post by gadreel on Jan 30, 2018 2:22:31 GMT
And they (maybe, although I see a lot of backlash about it from otherwise perfectly egalatarian men) may raise awareness, or they may be treated as nonsense and ignored, but even if they achieve everything you want, was it really the way you wanted to do it? especially as, in your example, a far better point can be made without the words. The way I see it ( and I do see it in a slightly humourous mocking tone much like the concept of 'man-flu) is that it is like publicity. There is no such thing as bad publicity as it always raises awareness and informs and starts conversations like this one. It is also a lighter add on to the current #me too etc in which the women are very concertedly raising awareness of feminist issues of bullying and sexual harassment in the workplace. This is sort of the opposite as men ignore women in an arrogant manner as if they are of a lesser value in a traditionally male or professional setting. Me too and that kind of thing I get, it raises awareness and does not single out men as a whole, I can be part of the me too campaign because no one is calling manabuse, or manrape, and using it when they get a bit offended at me (I have been accused of mansplaining when the person I was explaining something to just did not understand). I get that you like the words, I get that you like the awareness being raised, but I do not think that the price to pay (using sexism to fight sexism) is worth it in the context.
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Post by goz on Jan 30, 2018 2:45:01 GMT
The way I see it ( and I do see it in a slightly humourous mocking tone much like the concept of 'man-flu) is that it is like publicity. There is no such thing as bad publicity as it always raises awareness and informs and starts conversations like this one. It is also a lighter add on to the current #me too etc in which the women are very concertedly raising awareness of feminist issues of bullying and sexual harassment in the workplace. This is sort of the opposite as men ignore women in an arrogant manner as if they are of a lesser value in a traditionally male or professional setting. Me too and that kind of thing I get, it raises awareness and does not single out men as a whole, I can be part of the me too campaign because no one is calling manabuse, or manrape, and using it when they get a bit offended at me (I have been accused of mansplaining when the person I was explaining something to just did not understand). I get that you like the words, I get that you like the awareness being raised, but I do not think that the price to pay (using sexism to fight sexism) is worth it in the context. Fair enough, and it is not ideal butt you have to appreciate that men come to this argument from a position of greater power already and many/most(?) are totally oblivious to the whole problem.
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Post by progressiveelement on Jan 30, 2018 2:56:22 GMT
I try not to be.
But I meet stupid people often, and unfortunately that includes girls. It isn't so much sexism as frustration at being the only one in a group who knows anything ....at all.
😁
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 3:02:54 GMT
We have all heard of 'mansplaining', according to this article, feminists ( either male or female ) should be aware of a 'man talker'. Interesting, I've heard a lot of similar stories from women. I wonder just how common it is? I'd bet that most of those guys don't even realise they're doing it. Which makes me wonder if I've ever done it myself without even realising it. I suspect it wouldn't be a thing for me, but who knows...
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Post by goz on Jan 30, 2018 3:09:15 GMT
We have all heard of 'mansplaining', according to this article, feminists ( either male or female ) should be aware of a 'man talker'. Interesting, I've heard a lot of similar stories from women. I wonder just how common it is? I'd bet that most of those guys don't even realise they're doing it. Which makes me wonder if I've ever done it myself without even realising it. I suspect it wouldn't be a thing for me, but who knows... Do you want to know what an EVEN more annoying thing is? IF you are a woman with a decent sized chest, that they talk to your chest instead of making eye contact!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 3:22:40 GMT
Do you want to know what an EVEN more annoying thing is? IF you are a woman with a decent sized chest, that they talk to your chest instead of making eye contact! I know I've done that one before. I try not to, but it's difficult!
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Post by OldSamVimes on Jan 30, 2018 8:17:32 GMT
I'll talk to someone if they seem interesting.
I don't care about their gender.
Chances are, if they talk about gender issues all the time I won't find them interesting and I won't talk to them.
If someone says the word 'mantalker' to me, the conversation is over.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Jan 30, 2018 8:22:25 GMT
I was not prepared for a thread where Goz is making sense as well as making an important and valid point. But important accomplishments deserve recognition, so well done Goz. But good luck 'splaining it to people who still deny white privilege, male privilege, rape culture or anything else that threatens to burst their protective bubble. The people in the protective bubble ware the group identity politics followers, who go on and on about 'white privilege' and 'male privilege'. People who focus on skin color, and generalize based on it.. ARE RACIST. I don't care what gender or skin color someone I'm talking to has and I am not going to generalize and assume they've had it way easier than me. I have empathy for people who strongly identify with their race, gender or sexuality. That's all superficial and those people are shallow.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jan 30, 2018 9:58:49 GMT
No, I mean the usage of the word mansplaining, when we both agree that both genders do it. Simply having a word that targets one gender specifically is sexist, and I can tell you from experience that the word mansplaining has been used to dismiss an explanation of something made by a man that the user did not understands. You mean as opposed to words like 'gossip' and 'bitching' 'hen's talk' 'nattering' 'whoring' 'cowing' 'harlotting' 'tarting''squealing''tramping' which are overwhelmingly aimed at women in a denigrating manner? I thought gossip, squealing (which I mostly think of mobsters... and Deliverance) and nattering were neutral terms. Bitching I hear so much to describe any complaining (of either sex) that I rarely think about it being gendered anymore unless someone is just calling a woman a bitch. Cowing I haven't even heard of. Agree the rest are sexist.
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Post by Marv on Jan 30, 2018 11:42:14 GMT
It’s scientifically proven that men cannot hear the specific tones of a females voice. Therefore they probably assume it must’ve been the nearest man asking the question.
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Post by Vegas on Jan 30, 2018 13:39:30 GMT
I was not prepared for a thread where Goz is making sense as well as making an important and valid point. But important accomplishments deserve recognition, so well done Goz. But good luck 'splaining it to people who still deny white privilege, male privilege, rape culture or anything else that threatens to burst their protective bubble. Jesus Christ... Even your compliments are filled with you being a twat. Yeah.. The white male that is still pretty much just belittling a woman is gonna preach to us all about how our bubbles are threatened by white male privilege...
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Post by Marv on Jan 30, 2018 15:05:27 GMT
Interesting, I've heard a lot of similar stories from women. I wonder just how common it is? I'd bet that most of those guys don't even realise they're doing it. Which makes me wonder if I've ever done it myself without even realising it. I suspect it wouldn't be a thing for me, but who knows... Do you want to know what an EVEN more annoying thing is? IF you are a woman with a decent sized chest, that they talk to your chest instead of making eye contact! This is unavoidable. Try having an eye patch or a prosthetic arm. Same situation. People are distracted by abnormal physical features. Even if you were flat chested but wore a shirt that had writing on it...people will look at that. It’s humanitys ADD.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jan 30, 2018 15:08:29 GMT
Based on that, no, I'm just the opposite--a woman-talker. I very much prefer being around, hanging out with women, and I focus my attention on women when a group has multiple genders.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jan 30, 2018 15:11:36 GMT
My wife used to bitchsplain fucking everything, including my professional field. Why do we have to be sexists and call it mansplaining, when both genders do it. It's just called being a ***. Of course this is a valid point, however most men who consider this, often view it from a 'privileged' position of an inherent male sexism (often unconscious and conditioned) against women, their professionalism, their intellect, knowledge and their right to express these attributes fairly. I don't buy that there is such a thing as unconscious mental content.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jan 30, 2018 15:15:28 GMT
I just don't see why everything has to be sexist these days, sure there are assholes who talk down to you, does not matter what gender they are they are assholes, but now we have this new term especially to call out male assholes which of course ignores the female assholes and also gives men something else they can be put down about . As I said, you can only say this from a position of 'male privilege' and are you seriously going to deny that throughout history that males have not dominated the positions of power and influence in ALL fields? "You can only say this from a position of 'male privilege'" seems completely arbitrary to me. You'd have to support that claim somehow. And re the historical vocational domination you're talking about, what does that have to do with anything? It seems like a non-sequitur.
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Post by cupcakes on Jan 30, 2018 15:51:03 GMT
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Post by Arlon10 on Jan 30, 2018 17:28:13 GMT
I'm surprised nobody mentioned Al Gore. He sounded like he was talking to a child no matter what. I tend to talk to the "room" (everyone in it including animals and plants ) unless something is specifically for some individual. Remember when you sat down to dinner with your family and sometimes addressed everyone at the table? That's talking to the "room." People who work in the media might tend to address the room more than other people. Perhaps people lately are not accustomed to addressing the room. On these boards, even when I write a reply to an individual, I write with the assumption the whole board might read it, and yes I address the room, usually that is.
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Post by goz on Jan 30, 2018 20:27:07 GMT
I'll talk to someone if they seem interesting. I don't care about their gender. Chances are, if they talk about gender issues all the time I won't find them interesting and I won't talk to them. If someone says the word 'mantalker' to me, the conversation is over. Over the years, there seems to have been a natural selection process of my (our including MOTH)'s friends so that we rarely if ever talk much about 'gender' issues, except for perhaps for a bit of a laugh about such things as mansplaining and mantalking etc because it is not an issue in our social milieu. The men are egalitarian and decent blokes by and large, some of them even feminists. The problem comes however in mainstream and professional life when some form of business is to be transacted. MOTH is a wonderful person with special gifts butt I have always managed our finances and we ran a successful business for over 20 years. I therefore find it incredibly inappropriate and insulting that such people as salesmen, bankers, real estate salesmen accountants and solicitors etc persistently address him in preference to me as though I am 'the little woman'. He also has a great sense of humour, and usually says something like ' My wife handles the finances, I am just here for decoration '! when he sees that happening...and it happens all the time.
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Post by goz on Jan 30, 2018 20:44:41 GMT
I agree 100% with your statement, and in neither of those examples was a derogatory word required to get the point across, the real situation was met with real consequences, that is the way that change is fostered, not through some word that denigrates a whole section of society. IT isn't a gender issue. Assertive people will interrupt more. Arrogant people and rude people will talk down to others. The people that do this do it to everyone, regardless of gender. I can accept men are more guilty, the person who serially interrupts would just as happily do it to me as they would Goz. Women are more likely to engage in controlling behaviour. Is it then fair to refer to this kind of abuse as Femtrolling? Women are more likely to commit infanticide, should we call this crime Femkilling? In a long list of ridiculous claims you have made on this board, I think this one is perhaps the climax of your career It would not only be a matter of me asking for citations, proof aside from anecdotal evidence etc etc etc if would be entertaining for you to back this up in reference to your rants about how Muslim men TOTALLY control their women. Please feel free to entertain me.
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