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Post by mcufan on Feb 1, 2018 17:04:29 GMT
This is totally off-topic, but, speaking of finishing Kylo's training, I thought the scenes in TLJ of Snoke training Kylo were some of the best scenes I didn't see in TLJ. Thanks again, RJ! Instead of showing cool scenes with Snoke and Kylo sabering against each other (in which the previous lore would have been paid off, not to mention giving even the slightest crumb of validity to the argument of how Kylo lost to Rey, not to mention just how cool it would have looked, wait, I did mention that), we got a cliche scene of Reylo beating up some no name/ no face bots. WAY TO THINK IT THROUGH writing team! A bit disapointing post for your standards, Winter. I see you are fed up of arguing. Good for you.
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Post by mcufan on Feb 1, 2018 17:08:26 GMT
Also off topic, Waxer and Ryboto, I find it hilarious that you are being called my minions when: 1.) we vehemently disagreed for almost two years and have only begun to agree for the last month 2.) it was I who changed my position to your position(s). If anyone is the minion, it is me! I have no knowlege of your previous debates, I only know what I see, and what I see is you with valid, difficult to disprove arguments, with the willingness to BAN if need be and those two circling you with half hearted attempts of being you. You are just being humble. How sweet.
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Feb 1, 2018 17:08:52 GMT
I thought she did alright on Jakku, not clunky at all. Sure take away her clothes and she would be naked. I concede the flying the falcon stuff. a bit Over the top. BUT that's a freighter not a fighter. Luke should best her in a fighter, but she never uses one. I don't know if she has the same apptitude to adapt to controls as she has to wepons. It's not skilled, she has an advantage with the weapon, the others had nothing. I don't ever want to see Rey naked.
What does ship type have to do with it. Stop deflecting. The Falcon is basically a large fighter given it's upgrades. She obviously has the same aptitude to controls, she says specifically that she'd never flown the Falcon...Already addressed, i'm not going to answer in circles. Then you concede the point, as your argument is insufficient.When? When she proceeds to read his mind and humiliate him.There's no implication. Lighsaber skills and force raw power are two very different things. She has raw power to defy him, and if handicapped she has enough knwoledge of armed combat to best him also, with force focus. She does not. That's your wish fulfillment speaking. If the script were written with consistency in the universe it were set in, she would not have enough knowledge of armed combat(as in, she has almost none) to best him. Finn stood the better chance, as the FO actually trained with melee weapons. Rey only had to use the staff for defense. Also, it's a staff, not a sword. Also, again, you haven't answered Wax's questions because Finn was able to attack Kylo earlier, when his wounds, as you assert, shouldn't have been affecting him as much if you assume it's causing him to bleed more and be more distracted over time.YES. He is sloppy because he is conflicted, thus he makes mistakes, and he is conflicted because he was taught two very different things. it has nothing to do with his prowess with the force. It's his decisions that are hesitant. So, he can easily fool his master, who's survived for who knows how long, organized a massive military power in spite of the loss the Empire faced but then when he isn't powerful enough against Rey it's because he's conflicted..No, it's just inconsistent for the convenience of the plot. Well, she must learn force projection, force ghost, force lightning (if trainined by the dark side), Force Jump, Force Speed, force push, force pull. And above all she needs to learn what it all means. She has the potential to best snoke yet he treats her like a toy, untill Kylo saves her. She needs training to be a master like snoke, luke or even Kylo if he wasn't torn between two truths. Why must she? Force Jump, Speed, Push, Pull are all slightly different expressions of telekinesis, which she already knows. Snoke is written inconsistent, everyone is. It's a bad script, that's the defense of the scene. She knows enough, even Yoda thinks so. Capable of what? Of acting by instinct and blowing stuff up? yes, but she lacks control. She's on Kylo's level on raw power alone. Both movies show that. And no she couldn't have beste snoke. Snoke was defeated by mastery of the force that Kylo has and she clearly dosen't. The rocks at the end are the first non instintive or mimetic force power she uses. First steps. She pulls for the sabre in TFA, that wasn't instinctive, she wanted it, it was intentional. She intentionally mind-tricked. She intentionally mind-read. All this happens in the previous film. She had total control of these scenes. She came out unscathed, whereas Kylo, who's on the same 'raw power' plane, was injured. So, Kylo has mastery, but he's conflicted, so he loses his mastery when it's a convenient excuse to defend the plot holes. GOT IT!
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Post by ryboto on Feb 1, 2018 17:10:05 GMT
I'm not talking about handicaps, you've randomly introduced that for whatever reason. You're obviously a troll, which is fine. Someone has to be. Fighting games. Handicaps are huge on fighting games dude. You're really confused now.
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Post by mcufan on Feb 1, 2018 17:11:32 GMT
Fighting games. Handicaps are huge on fighting games dude. You're really confused now. YEah, Im confused, Ryboto the iphone "gamer"
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Post by ryboto on Feb 1, 2018 17:12:36 GMT
Also off topic, Waxer and Ryboto, I find it hilarious that you are being called my minions when: 1.) we vehemently disagreed for almost two years and have only begun to agree for the last month 2.) it was I who changed my position to your position(s). If anyone is the minion, it is me! I have no knowlege of your previous debates, I only know what I see, and what I see is you with valid, difficult to disprove arguments, with the willingness to BAN if need be and those two circling you with half hearted attempts of being you. You are just being humble. How sweet. You're right, troll, my opinion is not my own.
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Feb 1, 2018 17:13:28 GMT
You're really confused now. YEah, Im confused, Ryboto the iphone "gamer" Sounds like it, you confused fighting games with FPS's. day one stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 17:17:03 GMT
I have no knowlege of your previous debates, I only know what I see, and what I see is you with valid, difficult to disprove arguments, with the willingness to BAN if need be and those two circling you with half hearted attempts of being you. You are just being humble. How sweet. You're right, troll, my opinion is not my own. Just wait until the "we're all the same person/account" argument starts to rear its ugly head.
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Post by mcufan on Feb 1, 2018 17:30:01 GMT
Dosen't mean she was clunky.
Everything! a Large Vessel is tottally different from a small one. The things i have to read here.
LOL.
Before or after he humulliates her with her parents?
There's no implication. Lighsaber skills and force raw power are two very different things. She has raw power to defy him, and if handicapped she has enough knwoledge of armed combat to best him also, with force focus.
The two movies show us that she is skilled in a vireity of things including combat. IT shows us. You just don't want to see. I Think you just did answer finns thingy...
Not easily, in the right circunstances yes, like he did in the movie. He used the distraction, used his mastery of the force to conceal his intentions and was successfull. There was no conflict there.
Knows but has rudimentary knwoledge at best. I don't see her moving ships and leaping around like Anakin or Obi -wan or even Luke. She pulls kylos lighsaber, fails to pull her own lightsaber against snoke, and luke's lightsaber goes to her by instinct.
Ansewered already about the sabre. Instinct. Mind trick and mind read she pulls of of Kylo.
No you dont got a thing. Bring forth @winterssuicide to save you!
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Post by mcufan on Feb 1, 2018 17:33:04 GMT
You're right, troll, my opinion is not my own. Just wait until the "we're all the same person/account" argument starts to rear its ugly head. Nah, they are both too hmmm less inteligent than you...
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Feb 1, 2018 17:33:05 GMT
Dosen't mean she was clunky. Everything! a Large Vessel is tottally different from a small one. The things i have to read here. LOL. Before or after he humulliates her with her parents? There's no implication. Lighsaber skills and force raw power are two very different things. She has raw power to defy him, and if handicapped she has enough knwoledge of armed combat to best him also, with force focus. The two movies show us that she is skilled in a vireity of things including combat. IT shows us. You just don't want to see. I Think you just did answer finns thingy... Not easily, in the right circunstances yes, like he did in the movie. He used the distraction, used his mastery of the force to conceal his intentions and was successfull. There was no conflict there. Knows but has rudimentary knwoledge at best. I don't see her moving ships and leaping around like Anakin or Obi -wan or even Luke. She pulls kylos lighsaber, fails to pull her own lightsaber against snoke, and luke's lightsaber goes to her by instinct. Ansewered already about the sabre. Instinct. Mind trick and mind read she pulls of of Kylo. No you dont got a thing. Bring forth @winterssuicide to save you! It's sad seeing you struggle so. You still haven't addressed the most basic questions in the OP without resorting to assumption. I know it's futile arguing with a troll, but I take the bait!
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Post by ryboto on Feb 1, 2018 17:36:57 GMT
Okay, here's the groundwork: From TFA and TLJ we know that Snoke was Kylo's master and he at least partially trained him... (at the end of TFA Snoke says it's time that Kylo finish/complete his training). We know from TLJ that Kylo was an apprentice at Luke's Jedi academy... (Sorry TFA defenders who claimed that Kylo could've been a student interview of Luke and a rejection - the implication being he received virtually no training and didn't have an advantage over Rey in that department. You know who you are). So here's the question: Since Rey had no training and Luke had cut himself off from the Force for a decade and a half, how is it that Kylo Ren (who has had more training than either one over the past decade) a constant loser to Rey and Luke? How do you explain that? I think part of the problem, with MCUFAN as an example TFA/TLJ fan, is that they don't question it. They accept what they see from these films, and even though they don't fit the universe consistently, because we're shown it in a film with the Star Wars title, it's fact within canon and you can't question it even if it doesn't make sense. Blind fanboyism?
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Post by mcufan on Feb 1, 2018 17:46:36 GMT
Dosen't mean she was clunky. Everything! a Large Vessel is tottally different from a small one. The things i have to read here. LOL. Before or after he humulliates her with her parents? There's no implication. Lighsaber skills and force raw power are two very different things. She has raw power to defy him, and if handicapped she has enough knwoledge of armed combat to best him also, with force focus. The two movies show us that she is skilled in a vireity of things including combat. IT shows us. You just don't want to see. I Think you just did answer finns thingy... Not easily, in the right circunstances yes, like he did in the movie. He used the distraction, used his mastery of the force to conceal his intentions and was successfull. There was no conflict there. Knows but has rudimentary knwoledge at best. I don't see her moving ships and leaping around like Anakin or Obi -wan or even Luke. She pulls kylos lighsaber, fails to pull her own lightsaber against snoke, and luke's lightsaber goes to her by instinct. Ansewered already about the sabre. Instinct. Mind trick and mind read she pulls of of Kylo. No you dont got a thing. Bring forth @winterssuicide to save you! It's sad seeing you struggle so. You still haven't addressed the most basic questions in the OP without resorting to assumption. I know it's futile arguing with a troll, but I take the bait! First of all he is not a constant loser like i said before. He bests Luke (twice if you count Crait) Second he lost to Rey Once while wounded and defeted her several times. It's back and forth, it's not one sided. She did become paralyzed. He did capture her and read her mind. He did humiliate her with her parents. There's more to the force than clashing laser swords. Third, riding a bycicle know it? You don't loose the ability to do it. Conjecture? Maybe, but half of SW is conjecture. (Luke having more training than it's seen, jedi appearing out of thin air, it was later explained sure but at the time? conjecture. Who is the emperor? Conjecture. Half of the fun are the conjectures. You want absolute truth? Go to a church or read a science book. They both promise the same, and stop wasting your time with entertainment and what it all means.
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Post by mcufan on Feb 1, 2018 17:49:56 GMT
Okay, here's the groundwork: From TFA and TLJ we know that Snoke was Kylo's master and he at least partially trained him... (at the end of TFA Snoke says it's time that Kylo finish/complete his training). We know from TLJ that Kylo was an apprentice at Luke's Jedi academy... (Sorry TFA defenders who claimed that Kylo could've been a student interview of Luke and a rejection - the implication being he received virtually no training and didn't have an advantage over Rey in that department. You know who you are). So here's the question: Since Rey had no training and Luke had cut himself off from the Force for a decade and a half, how is it that Kylo Ren (who has had more training than either one over the past decade) a constant loser to Rey and Luke? How do you explain that? I think part of the problem, with MCUFAN as an example TFA/TLJ fan, is that they don't question it. They accept what they see from these films, and even though they don't fit the universe consistently, because we're shown it in a film with the Star Wars title, it's fact within canon and you can't question it even if it doesn't make sense. Blind fanboyism? What bafffles me is that you do the same thing with the PT and the OT but you have difficulty with the ST? You surely jest if you think there aren't more plot points in the six SW movies prior to these as there are in a swiss cheese! The clones are Bobba Fett! What a Fing jooooke!!!!! And who the F is Syfo-DYAS!!! HERE ANSWER aLL OF THEM WITHOUT CONJECTUREHERE HAVE SOME MORE!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 17:58:33 GMT
Okay, here's the groundwork: From TFA and TLJ we know that Snoke was Kylo's master and he at least partially trained him... (at the end of TFA Snoke says it's time that Kylo finish/complete his training). We know from TLJ that Kylo was an apprentice at Luke's Jedi academy... (Sorry TFA defenders who claimed that Kylo could've been a student interview of Luke and a rejection - the implication being he received virtually no training and didn't have an advantage over Rey in that department. You know who you are). So here's the question: Since Rey had no training and Luke had cut himself off from the Force for a decade and a half, how is it that Kylo Ren (who has had more training than either one over the past decade) a constant loser to Rey and Luke? How do you explain that? I think part of the problem, with MCUFAN as an example TFA/TLJ fan, is that they don't question it. They accept what they see from these films, and even though they don't fit the universe consistently, because we're shown it in a film with the Star Wars title, it's fact within canon and you can't question it even if it doesn't make sense. Blind fanboyism? I just think she likes to write and be written to. About anything and by anybody. One would think that if one were indeed so group-oriented, one would refrain from spamming the board with "you're stupid" and "fuck off" types of posts. Lol, and then it starts to get really confusing when the recipient of said "you're stupid," and "fuck off" posts decides to fulfill those wishes and goes away, only to be constantly quoted and summoned by the initial person who asked him to fuck off in the first place.
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Feb 1, 2018 17:59:31 GMT
I think part of the problem, with MCUFAN as an example TFA/TLJ fan, is that they don't question it. They accept what they see from these films, and even though they don't fit the universe consistently, because we're shown it in a film with the Star Wars title, it's fact within canon and you can't question it even if it doesn't make sense. Blind fanboyism? What bafffles me is that you do the same thing with the PT and the OT but you have difficulty with the ST? You surely jest if you think there aren't more plot points in the six SW movies prior to these as there are in a swiss cheese! The clones are Bobba Fett! What a Fing jooooke!!!!! And who the F is Syfo-DYAS!!! HERE ANSWER aLL OF THEM WITHOUT CONJECTUREWhy is the clones being Fett such a problem? It's silly, but it doesn't break consistency. A lot of those are nitpicks, and not pure holes. TLJ and TFA have actual holes. PT and OT might have issues, but they are more consistent within the universe they're set than TFA and TLJ. Again, willful ignorance isn't a knock, it's how you approach the franchise. I don't enjoy franchises when I have to apply that much of a fudge factor to maintain my interest.
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Post by mcufan on Feb 1, 2018 18:01:15 GMT
What bafffles me is that you do the same thing with the PT and the OT but you have difficulty with the ST? You surely jest if you think there aren't more plot points in the six SW movies prior to these as there are in a swiss cheese! The clones are Bobba Fett! What a Fing jooooke!!!!! And who the F is Syfo-DYAS!!! HERE ANSWER aLL OF THEM WITHOUT CONJECTUREWhy is the clones being Fett such a problem? It's silly, but it doesn't break consistency. A lot of those are nitpicks, and not pure holes. TLJ and TFA have actual holes. PT and OT might have issues, but they are more consistent within the universe they're set than TFA and TLJ. Again, willful ignorance isn't a knock, it's how you approach the franchise. I don't enjoy franchises when I have to apply that much of a fudge factor to maintain my interest. Yes, keep repeating that in your head, it might actually become true!
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Post by mcufan on Feb 1, 2018 18:07:12 GMT
I think part of the problem, with MCUFAN as an example TFA/TLJ fan, is that they don't question it. They accept what they see from these films, and even though they don't fit the universe consistently, because we're shown it in a film with the Star Wars title, it's fact within canon and you can't question it even if it doesn't make sense. Blind fanboyism? I just think she likes to write and be written to. About anything and by anybody. One would think that if one were indeed so group-oriented, one would refrain from spamming the board with "you're stupid" and "fuck off" types of posts. Lol, and then it starts to get really confusing when the recipient of said "you're stupid," and "fuck off" posts decides to fulfill those wishes and goes away, only to be constantly quoted and summoned by the initial person who asked him to fuck off in the first place. It's not confusing. I miss you. Is it so hard to beleieve? You left me with these half wits...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 18:27:35 GMT
I just think she likes to write and be written to. About anything and by anybody. One would think that if one were indeed so group-oriented, one would refrain from spamming the board with "you're stupid" and "fuck off" types of posts. Lol, and then it starts to get really confusing when the recipient of said "you're stupid," and "fuck off" posts decides to fulfill those wishes and goes away, only to be constantly quoted and summoned by the initial person who asked him to fuck off in the first place. It's not confusing. I miss you. Is it so hard to beleieve? You left me with these half wits... Let's start with you rescinding this "half wit" comment. Waxer and Ryboto are not half wits. They are long-time fans of the franchise who have made intelligent posts that you don't agree with. It's okay to think and say they have bad taste if their tastes don't suit you, but when you narrow an argument down to ad hominems, there's no place left for it to go. Which is why I put you on ignore, because there was no place left to go. If you're not careful, you're going to lose both of them as willing conversationalists too. You seem to love debate, so don't mess this up and lose two more debate partners. For whatever masochistic reason each has, each has been willing to continue sparring with you. You should be grateful instead of calling them names.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Feb 1, 2018 18:35:37 GMT
Also off topic, Waxer and Ryboto, I find it hilarious that you are being called my minions when: 1.) we vehemently disagreed for almost two years and have only begun to agree for the last month 2.) it was I who changed my position to your position(s). If anyone is the minion, it is me! Hilarious indeed! I got a chuckle as I read this very post.
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