Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 18:40:13 GMT
I don't. This also only exists in your head. You remind me a little of the Jewish kid from the movie Road Trip. Never seen it. The implication certainly seemed to be there. But as you say we have gone over this many times I see that it is impossible to change your view, as it is mine. I wish you well. For the record, I only judge the things people say and do. If you claim to believe that Christ is your savior, that you have repented of your sins and that you have requested God's grace through the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus, then you are a Christian by my standards, no matter how many tenets you don't follow that I think you should. I never judge the heart. I only judge the fruit.
|
|
|
Post by shadrack on Feb 15, 2018 18:41:13 GMT
You can be perfect and change you mind. How? I asked this question of wintersuicide, and his answer was not very good. If God is onmiscient and omnipotent, and exists out of time, then God knows all before it happens, he knows the outcome of every decision made and action taken, why would he change his mind in light of that, there can not be anything that possible comes as a surprise or reason to change. And that is not even getting into the idea of a perfect being changing in any way and still being perfect. Giving two different answers to the same question isn't necessarily a result of changing one's mind. It can be due to a change in circumstances, context, or other factors the questioner may not be aware of. For example: mom has a rule: no cake before dinner. Mom doesn't explain this rule or child is too young to understand. Regardless, child likes cake and asks for it constantly regardless of time of day. So, before dinner, the child asks mom, "can I have a piece of cake?". Mom's answer is "no". After dinner, the child again asks, "can I have a piece of cake?". This time, mom's answer is "yes". To the child, it appeared as if mom changed her mind, but in reality, it wasn't her mind that changed, it was the context in which the question was asked, even though the child didn't understand that.
|
|
|
Post by gadreel on Feb 15, 2018 18:44:28 GMT
Never seen it. The implication certainly seemed to be there. But as you say we have gone over this many times I see that it is impossible to change your view, as it is mine. I wish you well. For the record, I only judge the things people say and do. If you claim to believe that Christ is your savior, that you have repented of your sins and that you have requested God's grace through the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus, then you are a Christian by my standards, no matter how many tenets you don't follow that I think you should. I never judge the heart. I only judge the fruit.
|
|
|
Post by gadreel on Feb 15, 2018 18:45:45 GMT
How? I asked this question of wintersuicide, and his answer was not very good. If God is onmiscient and omnipotent, and exists out of time, then God knows all before it happens, he knows the outcome of every decision made and action taken, why would he change his mind in light of that, there can not be anything that possible comes as a surprise or reason to change. And that is not even getting into the idea of a perfect being changing in any way and still being perfect. Giving two different answers to the same question isn't necessarily a result of changing one's mind. It can be due to a change in circumstances, context, or other factors the questioner may not aware of. For example: mom has a rule: no cake before dinner. Mom doesn't explain this rule or child is too young to understand. Regardless, child likes cake and asks for it constantly regardless of time of day. So, before dinner, a child asks mom, "can I have a piece of cake?". Mom's answer is "no". After dinner, the child again asks, "can I have a piece of cake?". This time, mom's answer is "yes". To the child, it appeared as of mom changed her mind, but in reality, it wasn't her mind that changed, it was the context in which the question was asked, even though the child didn't understand that. that is a possibility, and certainly it fits. The question though was around God changing it's mind, any change in a perfect being would move that being away from perfect.
|
|
|
Post by cupcakes on Feb 15, 2018 19:00:34 GMT
tpfkar You can be perfect and change you mind. He has to be a perfect Bastard to fit the facts. Meet George Human...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 19:19:23 GMT
In fact, a personal being would need to be able to change/adapt to changing circumstances to truly be perfect. That is not possible if you are talking about any kind of change, either the being is perfect to begin with and a change will move them away from perfection, or the being was not perfect. I don't care enough to get into an argument about this, but it should suffice to say that I disagree. I would simply point you to this blog post to get a better idea of where I land on whether the biblical God can "change" or not. reknew.org/2007/02/god-is-not-frozen-2-15-07/
|
|
|
Post by gadreel on Feb 15, 2018 19:30:00 GMT
That is not possible if you are talking about any kind of change, either the being is perfect to begin with and a change will move them away from perfection, or the being was not perfect. I don't care enough to get into an argument about this, but it should suffice to say that I disagree. I would simply point you to this blog post to get a better idea of where I land on whether the biblical God can "change" or not. reknew.org/2007/02/god-is-not-frozen-2-15-07/All that blogs says is there is an issue with the idea of a perfect God, as a perfect God would be unchanging. You can have a God that changes, you just have to accept it is not a perfect being.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 19:38:22 GMT
I don't care enough to get into an argument about this, but it should suffice to say that I disagree. I would simply point you to this blog post to get a better idea of where I land on whether the biblical God can "change" or not. reknew.org/2007/02/god-is-not-frozen-2-15-07/All that blogs says is there is an issue with the idea of a perfect God, as a perfect God would be unchanging. You can have a God that changes, you just have to accept it is not a perfect being. No. You apparently missed the entire point of the post.
|
|
|
Post by gadreel on Feb 15, 2018 19:41:37 GMT
All that blogs says is there is an issue with the idea of a perfect God, as a perfect God would be unchanging. You can have a God that changes, you just have to accept it is not a perfect being. No. You apparently missed the entire point of the post. Why don't you try and sum it up for me then?
|
|
|
Post by Rodney Farber on Feb 15, 2018 19:44:14 GMT
You can be perfect and change you mind. I think I'll have fish for supper. No, I've changed my mind, I think I'll have lamb chops. Hypocritical B.S. If I were perfect, I would have known from the get-go that I was going to have lamb chops. ==================== In fact, a personal being would need to be able to change/adapt to changing circumstances to truly be perfect. More hypocritical B.S. If God were perfect, (S)He would know, apriori, what would be changing and would therefore have written his original rules to cover such changes. For example, (S)He would have known in 2000 B.C. that eating lobster would be allowable in A.D. 2000, so (S)He should have written that into the Bible four thousand years ago. Or. for another example, (S)He would have known apriori that the Great Flood would not have eliminated all the sinners so (S)He would not have committed the largest genocide in history. ==================== What a stupid thread, initiated on the rubbish of ignorance. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out of this thread. However, I see you've made four additional posts to this stupid thread since your original insult. Surely, goodness and mercy shall follow you all the days of your life, and you will dwell in the house of ignorance, until you're six feet under.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 15, 2018 19:53:09 GMT
You can be perfect and change you mind. How? I asked this question of wintersuicide, and his answer was not very good. If God is onmiscient and omnipotent, and exists out of time, then God knows all before it happens, he knows the outcome of every decision made and action taken, why would he change his mind in light of that, there can not be anything that possible comes as a surprise or reason to change. And that is not even getting into the idea of a perfect being changing in any way and still being perfect. I never said God was omniscient or omnipotent because i know there are plenty of definitions to that that may not apply to God. The bible clearly does not say God must know everything at all times nor does it say he can do all things at all times as if he's a slave to his abilities. On the other point, perfection does not negate changing your mind since there's no need for a connection connection between the two. I personally think it's odd to think about changing your mind in terms of it being a mistake or an error. How does that work?
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 15, 2018 19:54:40 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 19:55:04 GMT
For the record, I only judge the things people say and do. If you claim to believe that Christ is your savior, that you have repented of your sins and that you have requested God's grace through the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus, then you are a Christian by my standards, no matter how many tenets you don't follow that I think you should. I never judge the heart. I only judge the fruit.
|
|
|
Post by gadreel on Feb 15, 2018 20:04:37 GMT
How? I asked this question of wintersuicide, and his answer was not very good. If God is onmiscient and omnipotent, and exists out of time, then God knows all before it happens, he knows the outcome of every decision made and action taken, why would he change his mind in light of that, there can not be anything that possible comes as a surprise or reason to change. And that is not even getting into the idea of a perfect being changing in any way and still being perfect. I never said God was omniscient or omnipotent because i know there are plenty of definitions to that that may not apply to God. The bible clearly does not say God must know everything at all times nor does it say he can do all things at all times as if he's a slave to his abilities. On the other point, perfection does not negate changing your mind since there's no need for a connection connection between the two. I personally think it's odd to think about changing your mind in terms of it being a mistake or an error. How does that work? Well you have mentioned the out, that God is not omniscient or omnipotent. If God was both omniscient and omnipotent then it would have prior knowledge of everything, and all the consequences that would arise from any decision being made, changing the decision you have made implies that the previous decision was the wrong one, and you have learnt from your mistakes, however God (if omnipotent and omniscient) would not have to learn from mistakes as it would know the outcome prior to making the decision. Therefore changing your mind either means you intentionally made the wrong decision to begin with, or you did not know the results of that decision beforehand.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 15, 2018 20:19:35 GMT
I never said God was omniscient or omnipotent because i know there are plenty of definitions to that that may not apply to God. The bible clearly does not say God must know everything at all times nor does it say he can do all things at all times as if he's a slave to his abilities. On the other point, perfection does not negate changing your mind since there's no need for a connection connection between the two. I personally think it's odd to think about changing your mind in terms of it being a mistake or an error. How does that work? Well you have mentioned the out, that God is not omniscient or omnipotent. It's not an out, it's accuracy. But if you know that's my view why bring up a view I don;t ascribe to in the first place? You;re doing it again. you are ignoring what I said in order to repeat what you said. What is the point of doing that? Mind changes are not automatically mistakes. Heck, even regrets aren't mistakes despite the negative connotation, so there no way to debate this with someone who thinks that changing there mind is a life lesson in what not to do. Further, it seems like you are trying to have it both ways. You are applying examples of God changing his mind on things that impact him but that assumed that he either holds no impact on individuals or all impact on individuals as if they are extension of him. So let's pretend for a moment and say God know things ahead of time, why would that compel him to have people live the right way just so he could avoid making decisions on what he knows ahead of time? It's enough to give me a headache, so fortunately we know that's not true.
|
|
|
Post by gadreel on Feb 15, 2018 20:36:03 GMT
Well you have mentioned the out, that God is not omniscient or omnipotent. It's not an out, it's accuracy. But if you know that's my view why bring up a view I don;t ascribe to in the first place? You;re doing it again. you are ignoring what I said in order to repeat what you said. What is the point of doing that? Mind changes are not automatically mistakes. Heck, even regrets aren't mistakes despite the negative connotation, so there no way to debate this with someone who thinks that changing there mind is a life lesson in what not to do. Further, it seems like you are trying to have it both ways. You are applying examples of God changing his mind on things that impact him but that assumed that he either holds no impact on individuals or all impact on individuals as if they are extension of him. So let's pretend for a moment and say God know things ahead of time, why would that compel him to have people live the right way just so he could avoid making decisions on what he knows ahead of time? It's enough to give me a headache, so fortunately we know that's not true. I was not aware it was your view, I bought it up in the first place in the context of the OP. What was I ignoring? Changing your mind means you made an incorrect decision to begin with, otherwise you would not have to change your mind. If you had made the correct (correct not being a moral judgement,but correct meaning that your decision had the desired out come) decision in the first place you would find yourself in a position where you wanted to change your mind. I can't see anywhere where I gave an example, you may have to be more specific. It's not about avoiding making decisions, it is about having 100% accurate fore knowledge (which you agree God does not have, so this whole thing is moot in your theology), if God has 100% foreknowledge then the first decision will be the correct one, as God already know what outcome he wants and whether his decision will have that outcome. Just to be clear, I realise you do not hold that God is omniscient, in which case God can change it's mind as much as it likes, it also means god is not perfect. At this point I am simply re-iterating my stance if God is considered perfect and omniscient, I realise this does not appliy to you,but you keep on trying to refute it so I keep on responding, you are welcome to refute it, but you don't have to re-iterate that you do not hold this belief, I am already aware of that.
|
|
|
Post by Rodney Farber on Feb 16, 2018 13:01:11 GMT
Non responsive weasel words.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 16, 2018 13:16:45 GMT
gadreelI've already stated my answer and the conversation continues to turn to your version of God and how my answer fits within that. I can;t add to what I've already stated and it seems as if the argument becomes circular. The best arguments are the ones that build on the discussion or, if there's no where to go, end. Again, again, that is not what it's about. It's about whether changing your mind is wrong. I don;t like addrsssing the foreknowledge because it gives you the opportunity to bring up omniscience again which is done with, but let's pretend he has foreknowledge of everything, then maybe he can;t change his mind on something. So then the simple answer is "No", he can't change his mind since he already knows what he's going to do and the discussion is ended. What's the issue? This is the part your need to focus on because this is where the actual disagreement starts. Changing you mind IS NOT synonymous with the correcting of a mistake and especially if your mind being changed is based on external factors such as free will of your creation.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 16, 2018 13:17:14 GMT
Non responsive weasel words. ok
|
|
|
Post by Vegas on Feb 16, 2018 14:35:31 GMT
But, according to the story, it did eliminate all of the human/angel hybrids.. which was kind of the point... And, as far as the regular humans....I suppose it did eliminate all of those sinners.. That's just silly.. Parents don't let children drink coffee... knowing full well that they will be able to someday.
|
|