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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 6, 2018 16:13:47 GMT
Isapop Nope. I was being gracious and humble which you didn't accept so then I became facetious on your follow-up comment. No I won't since I know you are thinking I really meant all of mankind, including myself. Of course it's wrong to think that and my apologies for not thinking not think that other think in absolute terms. However, I will stand by the notion that A LOT of people are perfectly fine with death. A select few make a career out of it. Feel free to disagree.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Mar 6, 2018 16:46:57 GMT
If simply killing a grown human was enough to call God out on then why add the falsehood and jack it up to say God killed an infant? I saw the word, "firstborn" and mistakenly assumed that the murder occurred shortly after Er was born. It was not a falsehood, it was a mistake. It doesn't erase the fact that the bulk of you are whitewashing God's murder of Er, for what appears to be no apparent reason. (Even if there was a reason, it's still murder). Not to mention the murder of Onan as well because Onan refused to impregnate Er's wife. If there is an afterlife, as people who enjoy the Bible commonly believe, then death isn't a big deal. Death is only a big deal to Godless unconscious people. Believers and non-believers alike do whatever they can to prolong life equally. If a believer is having a heart attack, does he tell his wife, "Don't call an ambulance. I'll soon be in a better place"? Of course not. The fear of death is a part of evolution. Those that fear death pass along that trait to their offspring. Those that don't fear death may not have offspring to inherit that trait. So the point is God kills a lot of people. And then billions of people pray to him. If it's murder, then why isn't God in jail? For the same reason neither Hannibal Lecter, Norman Bates, Freddy Kruger, Jason Voorhees, Buffalo Bill, nor Michael Corleone are in jail. Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 6, 2018 16:54:06 GMT
Rodney Farber Who should they pray to? So why hasn't he been fictionally arrested?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 6, 2018 17:40:02 GMT
Worship the Devil then, if that's the way you feel about it. Who is stopping you?
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Post by Isapop on Mar 6, 2018 17:53:57 GMT
A curt and insincere "OK I'm wrong" is not gracious and humble by any definition. But I'm not looking for either graciousness or humility from you. I asked you if you were being facetious, and simple honesty by answering "Yes" would have sufficed.You SAID, "Death isn't that big of a deal to the human race". So, who wouldn't think you meant it to apply universally? (But NOT including yourself. I would have guessed that you counted yourself as a rare exception.)So you've changed from an assertion about the human race to an assertion about "A LOT" of people. Do you even know what you mean by that? Ten million people are A LOT of people, but that wouldn't even make up one half of one percent of "the human race." So your "opinion" now becomes MEANINGLESS regarding how "mankind" or "the human race" sees the deaths of others.No mind reading skills are necessary to see through someone as transparent as you. Some knowledge of what your denomination (since we can call it that now) teaches, coupled with your recent experience on this board trying to make a coming worldwide mass execution by God palatable is enough to account for your original statement, "Death isn't that big of a deal to the human race".
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 6, 2018 20:33:34 GMT
Isapop gracious - courteous, kind, and pleasant. humble - having or showing a modest or low estimate of one's own importance. The only thing missing was me calling you "Massa" or "Lord" I think you were expecting emotion of some type which I had no reason to provide, but it was quite sincere and tailored specifically toward your view of my statement. Which, again, is the reason i said i was wrong. I should have been more expository in my response but i was running short on time and did not reflect on my words in the great amount of detail that it so requires on this board. , but then I may be concerned that you would become skeptical of my intent then and the skepticism would grow into something i would need to keep addressing with each new apologizing bec=getting new skepticism that would require yet more apologizing and so on and so on... It's a good thing it hasn't come to that. I never think of myself as the exception. I am very much the everyman, living my life in a way that benefits mankind and pleases God. You might say I am just a completely harmless and dutiful citizen of the country I reside in. I'm not quite following the logic of your argument. Are you pretending that a lot is defined by a number you dole out rather than an indiscriminately large number? That is certainly your right but, & again I realize you know more about me that I do, but I would not waste time hazarding a guess of what a lot of people were except in realtion to the earth's population. So let's say that 10 million is the number. That's still a lot of people that are nonchalant about death. I would have went for a higher number (At least i think I would, you tell me...). Let's also go ahead and make this something worth discussing and get away from my intentions which, quote frankly, I think we can both agree is boring unless you just want to waste time arguing about a nothingburger...not that there's anything wrong with that... Let's assume that EVERYONE ELSE outside of that minuscule lot of people you assigned a number to values life. Everyone on the whole planet is working toward the goal of no one dying by any means other than old age and marvel at their success. . Exactly! You know me so well. One day we will have to have coffee and you can continue to educate me on myself.
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Post by kls on Mar 7, 2018 0:32:06 GMT
If simply killing a grown human was enough to call God out on then why add the falsehood and jack it up to say God killed an infant? I saw the word, "firstborn" and mistakenly assumed that the murder occurred shortly after Er was born. It was not a falsehood, it was a mistake. It doesn't erase the fact that the bulk of you are whitewashing God's murder of Er, for what appears to be no apparent reason. (Even if there was a reason, it's still murder). Not to mention the murder of Onan as well because Onan refused to impregnate Er's wife. If there is an afterlife, as people who enjoy the Bible commonly believe, then death isn't a big deal. Death is only a big deal to Godless unconscious people. Believers and non-believers alike do whatever they can to prolong life equally. If a believer is having a heart attack, does he tell his wife, "Don't call an ambulance. I'll soon be in a better place"? Of course not. The fear of death is a part of evolution. Those that fear death pass along that trait to their offspring. Those that don't fear death may not have offspring to inherit that trait. So the point is God kills a lot of people. And then billions of people pray to him. If it's murder, then why isn't God in jail? For the same reason neither Hannibal Lecter, Norman Bates, Freddy Kruger, Jason Voorhees, Buffalo Bill, nor Michael Corleone are in jail. Leave the gun. Take the cannoli. I still have no clue why the term first born would suggest infant. I'm first born and pushing 50.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Mar 7, 2018 1:05:56 GMT
From the New World Translation 38:7 = But Er, Judah’s firstborn, was displeasing to Jehovah; so Jehovah put him to death. What a nice guy. The Old Testament god is a real barrel of laughs.
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Post by rizdek on Mar 7, 2018 11:08:25 GMT
From the New World Translation 38:7 = But Er, Judah’s firstborn, was displeasing to Jehovah; so Jehovah put him to death. What a nice guy. So much for "Thou shalt not kill". So the God (or Lord, or Jehovah, or Allah or Buddha) goes around killing infants because they were displeasing. I seriously doubt an infant has performed any sin. And this is the God to whom you pray? How many people did the Devil kill in the Bible? Far fewer than God, BTW. Most theists believe God is allowed to execute people because he...you know, being God and all, can judge them deserving of death. They think execution is different than murder. So they'd say it doesn't conflict with the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" which many people claim means "Thou shalt not murder."
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 7, 2018 16:33:27 GMT
How do you know he was an infant? OK, Er was not an infant. Mea Culpa. Everybody is deflecting the fact that God killed him. God murdered a human. KJV: 38:7 And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him. With billions of people in this world, surely at least one million are wicked. Why doesn't God kill them? I don't recall reading anything about God killing anyone in the National Enquirer. So the outrage is supposed to be on the masturbation is evil trope, not the God killing babies trope. For that you should go to Exodus and the 10 plagues. I'll expect a thread shortly about it and you should be able to copy word for word! It was not Er that masterbated; it was Onan. How do you know Onan masterbated? Onan could have withdrawn his penis and ejaculated on the floor. And God killed Oran, too. So that's two murders by the God that you worship. What a nice guy. For future reference..... It's nice to know that you are a moron. I must be stupid because I don't understand why you are calling me a moron. Kindly explain it to me using easy-to-understand words. Without an explanation all I can assume is that (A) you don't like what I have to say, (B) you have no logical answer to the issue that supports your belief, and (C) you've decided to use insults rather than logic in an effort to claim superiority.
The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. - Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion Dawkins was one of the first authors I read when I really started challenging the belief system I grew up with. Hitchens was another. Science as a candle in the dark. Faith and fact are incompatible by definition.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 7, 2018 16:37:31 GMT
OK, Er was not an infant. Mea Culpa. Everybody is deflecting the fact that God killed him. God murdered a human. KJV: 38:7 And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him. With billions of people in this world, surely at least one million are wicked. Why doesn't God kill them? I don't recall reading anything about God killing anyone in the National Enquirer. It was not Er that masterbated; it was Onan. How do you know Onan masterbated? Onan could have withdrawn his penis and ejaculated on the floor. And God killed Oran, too. So that's two murders by the God that you worship. What a nice guy. I must be stupid because I don't understand why you are calling me a moron. Kindly explain it to me using easy-to-understand words. Without an explanation all I can assume is that (A) you don't like what I have to say, (B) you have no logical answer to the issue that supports your belief, and (C) you've decided to use insults rather than logic in an effort to claim superiority.
The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. - Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion Dawkins was one of the first authors I read when I really started challenging the belief system I grew up with. Hitchens was another. Science as a candle in the dark. It is extremely easy to be religious and love science.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 7, 2018 16:39:58 GMT
From the New World Translation 38:7 = But Er, Judah’s firstborn, was displeasing to Jehovah; so Jehovah put him to death. What a nice guy. So much for "Thou shalt not kill". So the God (or Lord, or Jehovah, or Allah or Buddha) goes around killing infants because they were displeasing. I seriously doubt an infant has performed any sin. And this is the God to whom you pray? How many people did the Devil kill in the Bible? Far fewer than God, BTW. Most theists believe God is allowed to execute people because he...you know, being God and all, can judge them deserving of death. They think execution is different than murder. So they'd say it doesn't conflict with the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" which many people claim means "Thou shalt not murder." Execution is different than murder which is different then killing which is different than dying. Each thing may be tied to life ending but that doesn't mean they were ever identical and religion was not what differentiated them As an aside, if someone is just a "theist", then how does someone know what their thoughts are in regards to the Bible?
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Post by cupcakes on Mar 7, 2018 17:07:18 GMT
tpfkar It's all right, any grotesque depravity is washed clean by the fantastical paradise exit-door prize. why wait
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Post by rizdek on Mar 8, 2018 11:43:43 GMT
Most theists believe God is allowed to execute people because he...you know, being God and all, can judge them deserving of death. They think execution is different than murder. So they'd say it doesn't conflict with the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" which many people claim means "Thou shalt not murder." Execution is different than murder which is different then killing which is different than dying. Each thing may be tied to life ending but that doesn't mean they were ever identical and religion was not what differentiated them As an aside, if someone is just a "theist", then how does someone know what their thoughts are in regards to the Bible?Your first two statements made my point. As for your question, someone can exchange ideas by discussing things in person or on an internet website. Someone can learn their thoughts by reading their essays, blogs or books.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 8, 2018 13:10:28 GMT
Execution is different than murder which is different then killing which is different than dying. Each thing may be tied to life ending but that doesn't mean they were ever identical and religion was not what differentiated them As an aside, if someone is just a "theist", then how does someone know what their thoughts are in regards to the Bible?Your first two statements made my point. As for your question, someone can exchange ideas by discussing things in person or on an internet website. Someone can learn their thoughts by reading their essays, blogs or books. Your point seemed to be that the religion makes the distinction which would be grossly incorrect by any standard. If on the other hand, you agree with what I said, then I'm happy for you. To my second question...So your thinking is that if one is a theist, literally everyone who is not an agnostic/atheist, the overriding principle of the Bible would be what they are familiar with and beieve despite their having a completely, non-interchangeable set of beliefs? OK Isapop - ^ This is what being factious looks like...
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Post by THawk on Mar 8, 2018 16:18:41 GMT
If the complaint against the Noah story is supposed to be "oh but there's no ways humans were that bad to deserve that" would you like me to start posting links of what humanity is doing even now, to this world, to other creatures, and to other humans?
On a daily basis humanity commits enough evil to warrant being completely flushed down the toilet 10 times over.
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Post by rizdek on Mar 10, 2018 12:19:44 GMT
Your first two statements made my point. As for your question, someone can exchange ideas by discussing things in person or on an internet website. Someone can learn their thoughts by reading their essays, blogs or books. Your point seemed to be that the religion makes the distinction which would be grossly incorrect by any standard. If on the other hand, you agree with what I said, then I'm happy for you. To my second question...So your thinking is that if one is a theist, literally everyone who is not an agnostic/atheist, the overriding principle of the Bible would be what they are familiar with and beieve despite their having a completely, non-interchangeable set of beliefs? OK Isapop - ^ This is what being factious looks like... The OP seemed to be challenging that the Bible was inconsistent in that on the one hand, we are commanded not to kill on the other hand God kills. Since the folks who are most interested in what the Bible says about killing/murder, etc and what the Bible says God did are theists, I answered the question in that context. I didn't mean to imply that it was grossly incorrect by any standard. Your last question is a bit hard to answer. I pretty much assume that if anyone is a Christian, Jew or Muslim they are a theist. And I think most of those theists believe that there is a difference between murder and killing as in self defense or as an execution. I don't think they all have completely interchangeable beliefs about everything, but it seems a lot of them do about that based my exchanges with them.
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Post by cupcakes on Mar 10, 2018 15:41:35 GMT
tpfkar If the complaint against the Noah story is supposed to be "oh but there's no ways humans were that bad to deserve that" would you like me to start posting links of what humanity is doing even now, to this world, to other creatures, and to other humans? On a daily basis humanity commits enough evil to warrant being completely flushed down the toilet 10 times over. Yeah, all those kids and infants were right evil bastards. And I will kill her children with pestilence and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.
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Post by THawk on Mar 10, 2018 18:56:25 GMT
tpfkar If the complaint against the Noah story is supposed to be "oh but there's no ways humans were that bad to deserve that" would you like me to start posting links of what humanity is doing even now, to this world, to other creatures, and to other humans? On a daily basis humanity commits enough evil to warrant being completely flushed down the toilet 10 times over. Yeah, all those kids and infants were right evil bastards. And I will kill her children with pestilence and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.Since the dawn of time the young and the innocent have suffered and died because of the evil or stupidity of the "adults," it is the story of humankind.
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Post by cupcakes on Mar 10, 2018 19:03:35 GMT
tpfkar Yeah, all those kids and infants were right evil bastards. And I will kill her children with pestilence and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.Since the dawn of time the young and the innocent have suffered and died because of the evil or stupidity of the "adults," it is the story of humankind. The "adults" didn't slaughter children and infants wholesale nor curse them and all their generations. The flighty bestial Child did that, regardless of how badly you want to talk around it. Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.
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