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Post by Isapop on Mar 12, 2018 12:03:10 GMT
Different Christian churches all say they go by "what The Bible actually says." And they all have their major disagreements on what the Bible actually MEANS by what it says. (Do I really need to point this out to somebody on a Religion board?) Case in point:
Nice hedging there, throwing in the word "about". Who DOESN'T it cover? All churches can quote that scripture, and then, for example, the Watchtower uses OTHER THINGS "The Bible actually says" (in Matthew and 2Thessalonians) to show that the resurrection DOESN'T include nearly all the earth's living population who will die in God's Armageddon plans. That's billions of men, women, and children sent off to permanent destruction. So, yeah, that portrays God as barbaric. And, just like you, they'll say they "only argue what The Bible actually says".
Putting on your "dumb act" again? As I just said, it doesn't apply (according to the WT) to earth's living population (the billions) WHO WILL DIE in God's Armageddon plans. THEY get no resurrection.More utter crap from you. I've never ventured to speculate on how much time JWs spend on it. I wouldn't even know how one would attempt to measure such a thing. But it IS what the Watchtower teaches in their published work. And there is nothing in those works on this matter saying, "We don't know, this is just the worst case scenario".And still more evasive crap from you. "Trigger the action". Afraid to say what "the action" is? At least the Watchtower isn't afraid to say that "the action" is Jehovah God's wrath upon all those and their children who haven't left their false religions behind and stood up for Jehovah before it was too late. That's "the action" you so vaguely refer to. And you think that rightly calling such an action barbaric is "whining" (or as Vegas says, "crying"). And that's all you CAN do, because you cannot actually defend it.
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Post by Vegas on Mar 12, 2018 12:28:32 GMT
Dude... You're gonna cry about who or whatever you are gonna cry about... I can't stop you.. nor, do I really care. All I can do is point out when you are crying about a false premise, or an exaggerated sentiment: Case in point: You didn't actually cite anything I could question but.... I'm not really that sure that there are specific "THOSE WHO DIE IN ARMEGEDDON ARE FOREVER DESTROYED" verses... but.. even if that's the case: YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ACTUAL DEGREEE OF "GUILT" OR THE ACTUAL STATE OF MIND/REBELION OF THOSE WHO ACTUALLY DIE IN ARMEGEDDON.. YOU ARE JUST CRYING ABOUT YOUR EXPECTION WHAT "WILL" HAPPEN.
Yeah... I don't like dealing in absolutes.
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Post by cupcakes on Mar 12, 2018 13:07:18 GMT
tpfkar So, in the Bible books of Numbers or Ezekiel, when God specifically designates children for execution, you don't dispute that it's barbaric. You're just arguing that God has the RIGHT to be barbaric. I tell you what... You can tell me all about how you think God is barbaric in 1,000 years, when - IF THE BIBLE IS TRUE - and God resurrects us all back to life.. And then you can tell me whether or not it's any different if you died because God killed you because you stood in the way of his plans of bringing everybody back from the dead or He was trying to make a point because you flipped Him off one too many times... or if you died because you ate too much steak or some guy shot you because he really liked your car. Until then.... Stop crying about it. If God exists... He has a plan for resurrecting everybody.. and you crying about it won't stop it. If God doesn't exist... It won't matter anyway. Yeah, if god has candy corn and sprinkles planned for everybody, then accept as "good" <any crass bestial depravity in His name>. And it appears the only one crying is you. 
Yeah... If you're a 12-year old girl... with Down Syndrome. |
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Post by Isapop on Mar 12, 2018 13:31:48 GMT
I know, and have quoted on these boards, what the Watchtower TEACHES about it. But you say you don't go by the teachings of any organized religion. If you want to make up your own theology based on a few scattered scriptures, go right ahead. But that doesn't count in any discussion about what religion teaches.Actually, you don't like dealing with an "exception" that encompasses the permanent destruction of billions of adults and children by God's decree. And since you can't deal with it, you'll try to dismiss anyone who WILL deal with it as "crying". |
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Post by Vegas on Mar 12, 2018 13:48:25 GMT
Actually, you don't like dealing with an "exception" that encompasses the permanent destruction of billions of adults and children by God's decree. And since you can't deal with it, you'll try to dismiss anyone who WILL deal with it as "crying". Jesus, you're a whiney asshole.... Yes... You are crying...  I wasn't making an exception for Armageddoners... I wasn't even thinking of them when I wrote "That about covers everybody".... YOU are the one who brought up Armageddon, stupid. I just care that "the 'X' AND 'those who aren't "X'"" pretty much equals "everybody". edit: Which, to me, could still possibly include those who die in Armageddon.... So I'm not making an exception for them, DA.Now... cry about how I used the phrase "pretty much"...   - "You said 'pretty much'... That means that you are intentionally ignoring my plumber Bob" |
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Post by cupcakes on Mar 12, 2018 13:53:37 GMT
tpfkar Dude... You're gonna cry about who or whatever you are gonna cry about... I can't stop you.. nor, do I really care. All I can do is point out when you are crying about a false premise, or an exaggerated sentiment: Case in point: You didn't actually cite anything I could question but.... I'm not really that sure that there are specific "THOSE WHO DIE IN ARMEGEDDON ARE FOREVER DESTROYED" verses... but.. even if that's the case: YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ACTUAL DEGREEE OF "GUILT" OR THE ACTUAL STATE OF MIND/REBELION OF THOSE WHO ACTUALLY DIE IN ARMEGEDDON.. YOU ARE JUST CRYING ABOUT YOUR EXPECTION WHAT "WILL" HAPPEN.
Yeah... I don't like dealing in absolutes.
You're going to moan and yell and wail about people "crying" in your constant projections. And we already knows that God slaughterers countless innocent, regardless of your desperate scrambling to prop up JW teachings. And calm down a bit, Sister.
words to live by |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 12, 2018 14:38:41 GMT
Isapop It's not an act.  zing? Well, that isn't actually known for certain a certainty. Scripture says something about there being a resurrection purely for judgement but that may not actually involve raising people from the dead given other info in Scripture. The judgement of those would be the same as the judgement for those alive and wicked. After all, those who are alive will know God &/or his will even if they don't believe in him or believe his existence by the time they croak which would make sense if they are attacking God's followers. Yeah, let's not pretend that you have a rather unhealthy obsession with JW teachings on the matter. You literally just said what you think they believe on the matter. I'm not concerned with their teaching o it and especially not from one interpreting who has nothing to do with them. Let's make this clearer: You said: I'm saying you're wrong because their teaching is bigger than what you think you know and that their teaching is actually that they don't know what's going to happen at the individual level and they have repeatedly said so and probably in the articles you get snippets from since you surely haven't read the entire thing. Guess who has? However, that is irrelevant. That's like the opposite of evasive. I don't know what the action is? Do you? I guess I could be afraid to say the wrong thing over something I am uncertain about... I assume it's a multi-faceted thing and since I haven't experienced it yet, I'm not worried about it yet. It really doesn't help to worry about it anyway. You're changing the subject from your previous sentence Is this an argument about JW teaching or Bible teaching? I wish i knew what was with you and JW's, because have clearly taken over your interest in just whining about Bible topics. This is what the conversation feels like: Normal people: The Bible says this Isapop: That's not what JW's say! Normal people: OK Isapop: Admit it! Normal people: Admit what? Isapop: Quit being evasive on WT teachings! Normal people: OK? If you want to say something, just say it.
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Post by cupcakes on Mar 12, 2018 14:52:04 GMT
tpfkar I don't care about any organized religion's dogma... I only argue what The Bible actually says... and not because I believe it to be true.. I don't. Whatever religion gets their shit closest to what it actually says... is the one that believes what it actually says. The Bible constantly refers to just about everybody coming back:
Acts 24:15
New International Version
and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
That about covers everybody. "same hope"? 
Have you found Jesus? |
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Post by Isapop on Mar 12, 2018 14:53:54 GMT
Isapop Yeah, let's not pretend that you have a rather unhealthy obsession with JW teachings on the matter. I wish i knew what was with you and JW's, because have clearly taken over your interest in just whining about Bible topics. This was NOT about JW teachings until Vegas and you made it about that. I had responded to what innsmouth said, and there is no reason to suppose he follows WT teachings. The crying and whining is from the both of you ("You're saying mean things about God!")
And there's nothing unhealthy in challenging you when you say that it "makes sense" for God to execute children along with their parents. The sick idea is in thinking that it makes sense.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 12, 2018 15:22:01 GMT
The resurrection wouldn't necessarily apply to the living would it? Why do Christians harp on about resurrection, if they don't want to be here anyway and would rather be in heaven? Are you saying you think there's a difference between the resurrection and going to heaven or are you saying they harp on it for being the same thing? |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 12, 2018 15:23:16 GMT
Isapop Yeah, let's not pretend that you have a rather unhealthy obsession with JW teachings on the matter. I wish i knew what was with you and JW's, because have clearly taken over your interest in just whining about Bible topics. This was NOT about JW teachings until Vegas and you made it about that. I had responded to what innsmouth said, and there is no reason to suppose he follows WT teachings. The crying and whining is from the both of you ("You're saying mean things about God!")
And there's nothing unhealthy in challenging you when you say that it "makes sense" for God to execute children along with their parents. The sick idea is in thinking that it makes sense.
I did no such thing. In fact, I didn't talk about JW teachings until YOU brought it up. After all, you just said I was too scared to mention JW teachings didn't you? EDIT: I figured I better correct since I do make threads about JW's which could be construed as talking about their teachings. |
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Post by cupcakes on Mar 12, 2018 15:30:02 GMT
tpfkar Execution is different than murder which is different then killing which is different than dying. Each thing may be tied to life ending but that doesn't mean they were ever synonymous and religion was not what differentiated them As an aside, if someone is just a "theist", then how does someone know what their thoughts are in regards to the Bible? And purposeful "execution" of children and infants and other innocent is the trait of depraved monsters and their acolytes.
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death. |
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Post by Vegas on Mar 12, 2018 18:38:41 GMT
Isapop Yeah, let's not pretend that you have a rather unhealthy obsession with JW teachings on the matter. I wish i knew what was with you and JW's, because have clearly taken over your interest in just whining about Bible topics. This was NOT about JW teachings until Vegas and you made it about that. I had responded to what innsmouth said, and there is no reason to suppose he follows WT teachings. The crying and whining is from the both of you ("You're saying mean things about God!")
And there's nothing unhealthy in challenging you when you say that it "makes sense" for God to execute children along with their parents. The sick idea is in thinking that it makes sense.
- "I-I'm not crying... *sniff*... Y-you're the ones ... huh... crying." Nobody gives a shit about you saying "mean things about God"... Sorry if one feels the need to counter your never ending whinefest with a "That's not really a Bible teaching".. or two... or three.. or... |
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Post by cupcakes on Mar 12, 2018 20:11:21 GMT
tpfkar Actually, you don't like dealing with an "exception" that encompasses the permanent destruction of billions of adults and children by God's decree. And since you can't deal with it, you'll try to dismiss anyone who WILL deal with it as "crying". Jesus, you're a whiney asshole.... Yes... You are crying... I wasn't making an exception for Armageddoners... I wasn't even thinking of them when I wrote "That about covers everybody".... YOU are the one who brought up Armageddon, stupid. I just care that "the 'X' AND 'those who aren't "X'"" pretty much equals "everybody". Now... cry about how I used the phrase "pretty much"... - "You said 'pretty much'... That means that you are intentionally ignoring my plumber Bob" You seem to gush for the crying anywhere you wish to pretend it to be. You said "pretty much" because, shocker, all of your teary tourettes gas is founded on hedging.
Jesus, you're a whiney asshole.... |
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Post by Arlon10 on Mar 12, 2018 23:01:45 GMT
How can you help me, when I know you know you don't know what you mean? And if you have much better things to do, you didn't really want to genuinely help me in the first place.  To recapitulate ... My impression of Rodney Farber differs from yours because I am not impressed by his knowledge of the Bible nor anyone else's assessment of his knowledge of the Bible. There are pastors with congregations of 30 to 45 people or so who meet on Sundays in a church. Often such pastors have some evidence of spiritual guidance or perception. I would not value at more than two cents the opinions of some of those pastors though. I suspect Rodney Farber's congregation is much smaller if it exists at all. Perhaps there are lots of people who are impressed with Farber's reading of Genesis 38:7 and think he is some kind of freaking genius because all those lahdeedah scholars did not catch the obvious capricious cruelty of Jehovah and Rodney did. Those fools assumed Judah's firstborn was displeasing because he was especially wicked and only Farber saw the real truth. I do not think so at all. By "because he wouldn't get through security" I meant that he would not be able to take a stage to express his opinions. Before the internet it was much more difficult to get a stage. Now almost anyone can get a little attention at least no matter how worthless their musings. I do doubt though that Farber would be leading any congregation in anything even with all the help of the internet. One advantage of a god that appeared cruel in those barbaric times was that people who were expected to be cruel could always let the god take care of that. What are you looking at me for? If god wants to slaughter children, he will. I'm going for a bowl of hot soup. |
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Post by Rodney Farber on Mar 13, 2018 10:22:56 GMT
... Perhaps there are lots of people who are impressed with Farber's reading of Genesis 38:7 and think he is some kind of freaking genius because all those lahdeedah scholars did not catch the obvious capricious cruelty of Jehovah and Rodney did. ... There are numerous places in the Bible where God murders people because he is the all-powerful Oz. I simply googled, BIBLE GOD MURDERS. The lahdeedah scholars who stand in the pulpit may have skimmed those chapters, but most likely chose to whitewash them. You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar. If every sermon told the story of God's murder, the congregation would not come back next Sunday. So let's not forget the great flood, the largest example of murder, genocide, and ethnic cleansing in recorded history, if it were true. But pastors only talk about the good Noah who save every species of animals. How he saved both penguins and polar bears is beyond me because they live fifteen thousand kilometers apart. Didn't anyone else have a boat? |
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Post by Arlon10 on Mar 13, 2018 10:47:01 GMT
... Perhaps there are lots of people who are impressed with Farber's reading of Genesis 38:7 and think he is some kind of freaking genius because all those lahdeedah scholars did not catch the obvious capricious cruelty of Jehovah and Rodney did. ... There are numerous places in the Bible where God murders people because he is the all-powerful Oz. I simply googled, BIBLE GOD MURDERS. The lahdeedah scholars who stand in the pulpit may have skimmed those chapters, but most likely chose to whitewash them. You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar. If every sermon told the story of God's murder, the congregation would not come back next Sunday. So let's not forget the great flood, the largest example of murder, genocide, and ethnic cleansing in recorded history, if it were true. But pastors only talk about the good Noah who save every species of animals. How he saved both penguins and polar bears is beyond me because they live fifteen thousand kilometers apart. Didn't anyone else have a boat? Or as I explained elsewhere, ancient times were especially barbaric and cruel before any people of god got organized. Slaughter was socially acceptable and even expected. By having a god to take care of that for them people could excuse themselves from slaughtering. It startles you however because your understanding of history is so far off. No one these days is expected to slaughter children and no one needs to use some "god" as an excuse to get out of slaughtering. You have a point about the internet. It has fueled many the silly argument with no basis at all other than children playing with computers. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 13, 2018 11:55:47 GMT
no one needs to use some "god" as an excuse to get out of slaughtering. Indeed. Just as atheists don't need some "god" to know right from wrong more generally either. |
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Post by Arlon10 on Mar 13, 2018 12:19:42 GMT
no one needs to use some "god" as an excuse to get out of slaughtering. Indeed. Just as atheists don't need some "god" to know right from wrong more generally either. You're failing to recognize that at one time slaughtering was the norm. At that time people did use a god to get out of slaughtering by claiming that god would handle the problem. You are denying the history of the matter. You are not giving religion credit for making slaughtering abnormal. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 13, 2018 12:25:59 GMT
Indeed. Just as atheists don't need some "god" to know right from wrong more generally either. You're failing to recognize that at one time slaughtering was the norm. It certainly appealed to your purported god back in the day, if one reads the OT. And of course all of scripture is suitable for instruction, we are told by Timothy so one can presumably can look to Him for a fine example. Which sort of argues against your previous point does it not, lol? On the contrary, quite a few of the religions of the ancients specified the use of violence, whether it was the South Americans ripping the hearts out on sacrificial altars, or the blood-letting authorised by way of revenge on several occasions by Jehovah. And as we know, your Jesus said quite clearly that we are not to think that he was not around to bring peace, but a sword. |
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