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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 21, 2018 19:06:41 GMT
Steve knew they were there to kill Bucky. Not take him in for trial. 1st, Steve's assumption was incorrect since they didn't kill Bucky when they could've and instead arrested Bucky, which meant they intended to give him a trial. 2nd, Bucky was 100% guaranteed a trial by jury so there was no reason for Cap and Bucky to flee other than Cap believing that he and Bucky and the Avengers should rule over the people, not be judged by the people, because they're more powerful than the people. Cap's argument is the old "Might makes Right" argument. what happened to these guys' trials? Not one trial. Those guys didn't surrender peacefully and instead resisted and continued fighting. So killing them was justified. It's no different than when an armed bank robber shoots at cops and the cops shoot back and kill them. That's justified because the armed robbers refused to surrender peacefully and instead resisted nd continued fighting. Had Bucky surrendered peacefully, it was 1005 guaranteed that Bucky would get a trial by jury. Only an idiot would think otherwise.  Batman has gases that he could have shot into that room to knocked them out. He used lethal force on all of them. They came in shooting. And even shot at him from a helicopter. The only reason they took them in is because War Machine showed up. |
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Mar 21, 2018 20:22:13 GMT
Cares nothing? It was a sign of good faith and that he DOES care about their opinion, the law, etc. Captain America hasn't even done that much. Superman has surrendered to the authorities, met with govt. officials, etc. in many versions. Cap just starts swinging and runs whenever he doesn't like something the govt. does. Agreed. Superman does care about the opinion of the people and respects the authority of the people, which is why he willingly surrendered himself to the US military even though they had no power to arrest him and why he appeared at a Congressional hearing when summoned even though they had no power to make him appear. Cap, on the other hand, doesn't give a shit about the opinions of common people and doesn't respect the authority of the people, which is why Cap refuses to surrender Bucky, who brutally killed 2 civilians, over for a trial by a jury of the people. Regardless of the all BS claims that Cap defenders make, it should not be forgotten that Bucky brutally killed 2 innocent civilians. Whether Bucky is guilty of murder or a lesser charge because he may have been "brainwashed" is for a jury of the people to decide. But Cap believes that he and the Avengers should rule over the people, not be judged by the people, because they're more powerful than the people. Cap's argument is the old "Might makes Right" argument.Hey, this will blow your mind but everything you just described is called proper character flaws and development, something DC lacks right now. That fact you don't like that Captian America goes above the Constitution and the laws means the film is doing it's job, creating dialogue and debate among the audience of what you think is right or wrong. Let me know if that's something you have problems comprehending |
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 21, 2018 22:03:37 GMT
No, realistic. More realistic that Gordon keeping his job all these years. Nope, not realistic at all. More realistic than Gordon still having a job. Much more. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 21, 2018 22:05:23 GMT
Except where it's clearly stated he wouldn't and since they failed to kill him they would just keep him locked up.
He believes in the spirit of America more than Superman, who only showed up at the Capitol Building because he was humoring people and otherwise cares nothing for their opinion or the rule of law.Cares nothing? It was a sign of good faith and that he DOES care about their opinion, the law, etc. Captain America hasn't even done that much. Superman has surrendered to the authorities, met with govt. officials, etc. in many versions. Cap just starts swinging and runs whenever he doesn't like something the govt. does. He was only humoring them, both in MOS and in BVS. In MOS he didn't surrender himself because he knew they couldn't hold him and just wanted an audience with the higher-ups who he knew were watching and in BvS it was more or less the same with the Senate Committee. If they'd shown they had kryptonite weapons, he'd never have shown up. |
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Post by kuatorises on Mar 22, 2018 16:11:33 GMT
Cares nothing? It was a sign of good faith and that he DOES care about their opinion, the law, etc. Captain America hasn't even done that much. Superman has surrendered to the authorities, met with govt. officials, etc. in many versions. Cap just starts swinging and runs whenever he doesn't like something the govt. does. Superman showed his true colors when he destroyed the government drone that he claimed was "spying" on him. (like a drone could actually spy on Superman  ) It was an overt threat to US authority - do not fuck with me ... or else I'll do to you what I did to this drone!Plus, his complete indifference to the thousands of insects (people) he killed during his throw-down with another super man. Superman "surrendering" to the authorities is just lip service. No earthly power can contain him. There is zero risk that he might have to submit to something against his will. Captain America can be contained. He can be killed. Surrendering to the authorities for CA is a huge risk ... particularly when those authorities may be in cahoots with the bad guys. Which is exactly why turning himself in is a show of good faith and not lip service. No one can stop him, hence he has no reason to lie about his motives and play nice. Your argument is ass-backwards. Hulk can't be killed and still won't turn himself over to authorities. Iron Man can be and has turned himself over to authorities. In cahoots with?! Lmao, please. Stop it. No, there have been spies amongst the govt., but that doesn't make the whole govt. the bad guys. Nice Strawman argument. You Cap supporters are paranoid, anti-authority, and hypocritical. You are more fearful of the law-abiding heroes and govt. than you are of the actual villains. You want the govt. and Stark held accountable for their actions, but ignore Bucky and Wanda; because they hide behind Cap; whom you also hold above the law. It's an irrational fear based on emotions and preferences rather than facts. |
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Post by kuatorises on Mar 22, 2018 16:21:29 GMT
Cares nothing? It was a sign of good faith and that he DOES care about their opinion, the law, etc. Captain America hasn't even done that much. Superman has surrendered to the authorities, met with govt. officials, etc. in many versions. Cap just starts swinging and runs whenever he doesn't like something the govt. does. In MOS he didn't surrender himself because he knew they couldn't hold him and just wanted an audience with the higher-ups who he knew were watching and in BvS it was more or less the same with the Senate Committee. If they'd shown they had kryptonite weapons, he'd never have shown up. This argument has no merit. No one can stop him. He has no reason to play nice. He can do whatever he wants and no one can stop – it would serve no purpose if he was lying about his intentions. He meets with authorities because it's a show of good faith that he respects the process. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 22, 2018 17:10:18 GMT
He was only humoring them, both in MOS and in BVS. In MOS he didn't surrender himself because he knew they couldn't hold him and just wanted an audience with the higher-ups who he knew were watching and in BvS it was more or less the same with the Senate Committee. If they'd shown they had kryptonite weapons, he'd never have shown up. This argument has no merit. No one can stop him. He has no reason to play nice. Which is why him showing up was just him humoring them. We saw his true colors when he destroyed that Drone. If he knew they had Kryptonite weapons or thought there was a chance he could be hurt, he'd never have showed. |
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Post by damngumby on Mar 22, 2018 17:17:43 GMT
Which is exactly why turning himself in is a show of good faith and not lip service. No one can stop him, hence he has no reason to lie about his motives and play nice. Of course there is. If he revealed himself to be a good guy poser, the love of his life would reject him. When you surrender to the authorities, you relinquish the ability to control your own fate to that authority. By the very nature of his super-ness, Superman can not do that. No earthly authority can make him do something against his will. If you destroyed a government drone, you'd be thrown in jail for a few years. You think Superman would willingly sit in a jail cell for that? Of course not. The moment he felt the need to leave, he'd fly away. Any act of surrender on the part of Superman is just theater for the galactically gullible. I guess you missed the scene that revealed that Hydra had infiltrated congress. Yes, that is a nice strawman argument. You don't need the whole government to be bad guys. No one said anything about the whole government being the bad guys. All you need is a few individuals with the authority to order an assassination or make someone disappear in a secret prison. In a world where there are Hydra operatives throughout the government, you betcha! ... Do you even watch these movies? In the case of Superman, he is not law abiding. His long list of criminal acts are just ignored. |
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Post by kuatorises on Mar 23, 2018 12:54:48 GMT
Which is exactly why turning himself in is a show of good faith and not lip service. No one can stop him, hence he has no reason to lie about his motives and play nice. Of course there is. If he revealed himself to be a good guy poser, the love of his life would reject him. When you surrender to the authorities, you relinquish the ability to control your own fate to that authority. By the very nature of his super-ness, Superman can not do that. No earthly authority can make him do something against his will. If you destroyed a government drone, you'd be thrown in jail for a few years. You think Superman would willingly sit in a jail cell for that? Of course not. The moment he felt the need to leave, he'd fly away. Any act of surrender on the part of Superman is just theater for the galactically gullible. I guess you missed the scene that revealed that Hydra had infiltrated congress. Yes, that is a nice strawman argument. You don't need the whole government to be bad guys. No one said anything about the whole government being the bad guys. All you need is a few individuals with the authority to order an assassination or make someone disappear in a secret prison. In a world where there are Hydra operatives throughout the government, you betcha! ... Do you even watch these movies? In the case of Superman, he is not law abiding. His long list of criminal acts are just ignored. I'm pretty sure that never happened. And you still don't know what in cahoots means. |
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Post by damngumby on Mar 23, 2018 16:03:25 GMT
I guess you missed the scene that revealed that Hydra had infiltrated congress. I'm pretty sure that never happened. And you still don't know what in cahoots means. I do believe you're wrong on every_single_point! You get the DC-Fanboy award for the day! |
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Post by kuatorises on Mar 24, 2018 14:06:26 GMT
I'm pretty sure that never happened. And you still don't know what in cahoots means. I do believe you're wrong on every_single_point! You get the DC-Fanboy award for the day! So....one guy in congress? One as in singular? Your original comment: Authorities. Why that's...plural. That can't be right though, because "the government" is more than one congressman. "The government" is "in cahoots" with the bad guys, but it's only one guy. It's almost as if the government isn't in cahoots with the bad guys and has been compromised by a few individuals. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 24, 2018 18:52:22 GMT
So....one guy in congress? One as in singular? Your original comment: Authorities. Why that's...plural. That can't be right though, because "the government" is more than one congressman. "The government" is "in cahoots" with the bad guys, but it's only one guy. It's almost as if the government isn't in cahoots with the bad guys and has been compromised by a few individuals. 1 cop is a bad cop so all cops are bad. 1 Congressman is corrupt so all government officials are corrupt. That's the lame argument that Cap and many MCU fans use to defend Cap's criminal and tyrannical behavior. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 24, 2018 20:05:00 GMT
So....one guy in congress? One as in singular? Your original comment: Authorities. Why that's...plural. That can't be right though, because "the government" is more than one congressman. "The government" is "in cahoots" with the bad guys, but it's only one guy. It's almost as if the government isn't in cahoots with the bad guys and has been compromised by a few individuals. 1 cop is a bad cop so all cops are bad. 1 Congressman is corrupt so all government officials are corrupt. That's the lame argument that Cap and many MCU fans use to defend Cap's criminal and tyrannical behavior. Nah, they did a good job showing the infiltration that we don't need to see every single HYDRA member. This isn't the DCEU, we're not going to be spoonfed. |
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Post by damngumby on Mar 24, 2018 20:21:46 GMT
It's almost as if the government isn't in cahoots with the bad guys and has been compromised by a few individuals. It’s almost as if you repeated what I said earlier. What, you watched Winter Soldier, saw a Hydra Congressman and a top secret US intelligence agency compromised by Hydra, and you completely missed the implication that Hydra could be hiding anywhere, thereby justifying Steve Rogers suspicions? Jeez, it’s not like the movie was exactly subtle about it. I suggest you watch the Winter Soldier again ... and try paying attention this time. |
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