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Post by Cinemachinery on May 23, 2018 20:56:09 GMT
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Post by gadreel on May 23, 2018 21:15:55 GMT
It's a pity it was a private remark, he could do well to say it publicly, but I suppose he has to be careful with the old guard.
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Post by captainbryce on May 23, 2018 21:32:46 GMT
Ridiculous!
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Post by gadreel on May 23, 2018 21:37:50 GMT
What is ridiculous about it?
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Post by captainbryce on May 24, 2018 0:49:07 GMT
What is ridiculous about it? What isn’t? 1) It’s ridiculous that this guy would choose to remain part of an organization that literally demonized him to his face. An organization who’s leadership told other members of his religion that he was living a perverse life and not a true member. 2) It’s ridiculous that the Pope would try to pander to the gays pretending that kind words somehow alter the position of the church on homosexuality. 3) Its ridiculous for anyone to have faith in an a religion that proves itself to be false by continuously updating its stance and treating its own congregation differently (depending on who is in Office). 4) Its ridiculous that a gay person would be a Catholic, or any fundamentalist version of Christianity.
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Post by Arlon10 on May 24, 2018 0:52:47 GMT
It's not like he's a real Jew anyway.
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Post by gadreel on May 24, 2018 1:02:46 GMT
What is ridiculous about it? What isn’t? 1) It’s ridiculous that this guy would choose to remain part of an organization that literally demonized him to his face. An organization who’s leadership told other members of his religion that he was living a perverse life and not a true member. 2) It’s ridiculous that the Pope would try to pander to the gays pretending that kind words somehow alter the position of the church on homosexuality. 3) Its ridiculous for anyone to have faith in an a religion that proves itself to be false by continuously updating its stance and treating its own congregation differently (depending on who is in Office). 4) Its ridiculous that a gay person would be a Catholic, or any fundamentalist version of Christianity. the fact remains that for whatever reason, which we have to assume is valid for the guy, he HAS remained a Catholic, the Pope has supported him. This is GREAT, not ridiculous, the pope is clearly hoping for change and yes it might be a hard road, but it's great he is there and the culmination of events and circumstances allowed the pope to express his feelings of reconciliation to this guy. Your third point irks the shit our of me and is typical of (thankfully rare outside this board) anti religionist hypocrisy. Everyone wants the church to evolve and move with the times, but when there is a hint they do they bleat like pigs about how the church mush be false because they are rethinking their moral stance. Pick an option and stick with it.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 24, 2018 1:07:44 GMT
It's a pity it was a private remark, he could do well to say it publicly, but I suppose he has to be careful with the old guard. I haven't heard a pope in recent history yet that has said gays were not welcome in the church. This is probably a mountain out of a molehill situation.
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Post by gadreel on May 24, 2018 1:25:18 GMT
It's a pity it was a private remark, he could do well to say it publicly, but I suppose he has to be careful with the old guard. I haven't heard a pope in recent history yet that has said gays were not welcome in the church. This is probably a mountain out of a molehill situation. It's not that Gays are welcome or not in the church, although I find it hard to reconcile being welcome with being told your desires are a mortal sin, but what the pope said:
God made you this way
That marks a very specific change in thought, and goes against what the catholic church has taught for centuries.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2018 1:33:54 GMT
It never fails to amaze me how much credit popes get for expressing a little basic decency.
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Post by gadreel on May 24, 2018 1:43:59 GMT
It never fails to amaze me how much credit popes get for expressing a little basic decency. Yeah to be fair it is a bit sad that when we get a nice pope it's a earth shattering shock, but given they are so rare, I think a little encouragement is good.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2018 1:53:32 GMT
It never fails to amaze me how much credit popes get for expressing a little basic decency. Yeah to be fair it is a bit sad that when we get a nice pope it's a earth shattering shock, but given they are so rare, I think a little encouragement is good. I suppose. It's kind of like if Trump announced that groping women was a bad thing. Okay, we should get behind that message, but it's hard not to react with "Finally worked that one out, did ya?"
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Post by gadreel on May 24, 2018 1:58:32 GMT
Yeah to be fair it is a bit sad that when we get a nice pope it's a earth shattering shock, but given they are so rare, I think a little encouragement is good. I suppose. It's kind of like if Trump announced that groping women was a bad thing. Okay, we should get behind that message, but it's hard not to react with "Finally worked that one out, did ya?" Yeah agreed, although in the popes defence he is in an organisation that has hundreds of years of supporting something he is going against, for him to stand up and say something (although he technically did not in this instance, but he has done before) is a bold move. I guess the sad thing is really that there is such an organisation that holds this view and that it has to be so amazing that a leader of that organisation is happy to express a view the rest of humanity came to a long time ago.
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Post by goz on May 24, 2018 3:35:19 GMT
I suppose. It's kind of like if Trump announced that groping women was a bad thing. Okay, we should get behind that message, but it's hard not to react with "Finally worked that one out, did ya?" Yeah agreed, although in the popes defence he is in an organisation that has hundreds of years of supporting something he is going against, for him to stand up and say something (although he technically did not in this instance, but he has done before) is a bold move.I guess the sad thing is really that there is such an organisation that holds this view and that it has to be so amazing that a leader of that organisation is happy to express a view the rest of humanity came to a long time ago. You see this fascinates me! This whole reverence for a man. Once again the Catholic Church is hypocritical when it says that the Pope is God's word on earth, and the poor effing Pope can't say whatever he wants, thus effecting change. It does tend to reinforce the notion of the 'institution' of the Catholic Church being the sacred thing when even Popes can't change it and its importance is placed above the needs and rights of its congregation. ( especially in the cases where the institution is protected over the rape and paedophilia cases and the health of the congregation is prejudiced with the encyclicals against birth control and condoms for AIDS control etc)
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Post by rizdek on May 24, 2018 10:22:28 GMT
What isn’t? 1) It’s ridiculous that this guy would choose to remain part of an organization that literally demonized him to his face. An organization who’s leadership told other members of his religion that he was living a perverse life and not a true member. 2) It’s ridiculous that the Pope would try to pander to the gays pretending that kind words somehow alter the position of the church on homosexuality. 3) Its ridiculous for anyone to have faith in an a religion that proves itself to be false by continuously updating its stance and treating its own congregation differently (depending on who is in Office). 4) Its ridiculous that a gay person would be a Catholic, or any fundamentalist version of Christianity. the fact remains that for whatever reason, which we have to assume is valid for the guy, he HAS remained a Catholic, the Pope has supported him. This is GREAT, not ridiculous, the pope is clearly hoping for change and yes it might be a hard road, but it's great he is there and the culmination of events and circumstances allowed the pope to express his feelings of reconciliation to this guy. Your third point irks the shit our of me and is typical of (thankfully rare outside this board) anti religionist hypocrisy. Everyone wants the church to evolve and move with the times, but when there is a hint they do they bleat like pigs about how the church mush be false because they are rethinking their moral stance. Pick an option and stick with it. Does morality evolve and change with the times?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 24, 2018 10:26:24 GMT
I haven't heard a pope in recent history yet that has said gays were not welcome in the church. This is probably a mountain out of a molehill situation. It's not that Gays are welcome or not in the church, although I find it hard to reconcile being welcome with being told your desires are a mortal sin, but what the pope said:
God made you this way
That marks a very specific change in thought, and goes against what the catholic church has taught for centuries.
That sounds like something the Pope would say. The only difference is the notion of choice in being gay, but I don't this Pope ever said it was a choice and his expectation is still likely that gay people keep it in their pants. I don;t think this Pope or other Catholics believe this sin is any more serious than any other. Whether that means it's a mortal sin or whatever is irrelevant because sex sins are easily forgivable.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on May 24, 2018 11:47:14 GMT
said it was a choice and his expectation is still likely that gay people keep it in their pants. It is an interesting point; for it is not at all clear why God would make someone gay and not also be able to make someone actively gay. It is like God making someone painterly but not being able to paint. One would though any 'gift' from the Almighty would praise Him in the use.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 24, 2018 12:01:35 GMT
said it was a choice and his expectation is still likely that gay people keep it in their pants. It is an interesting point; for it is not at all clear why God would make someone gay and not also be able to make someone actively gay. It is like God making someone painterly but not being able to paint. One would though any 'gift' from the Almighty would praise Him in the use. it depends on how far to want to parcel it which is not worth arguing I would say if people are born with it the. It’s the parents fault.
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Post by THawk on May 24, 2018 12:06:01 GMT
What is ridiculous about it? What isn’t? 1) It’s ridiculous that this guy would choose to remain part of an organization that literally demonized him to his face. An organization who’s leadership told other members of his religion that he was living a perverse life and not a true member. 2) It’s ridiculous that the Pope would try to pander to the gays pretending that kind words somehow alter the position of the church on homosexuality. 3) Its ridiculous for anyone to have faith in an a religion that proves itself to be false by continuously updating its stance and treating its own congregation differently (depending on who is in Office). 4) Its ridiculous that a gay person would be a Catholic, or any fundamentalist version of Christianity. Catholicism is incredibly far from a "fundamentalist version of Christianity," at least on most issues. Have you even heard of American evangelicals or Southern Baptists?
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Post by OldSamVimes on May 24, 2018 12:31:14 GMT
I'm sick of gayness.
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