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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 23, 2017 4:50:18 GMT
People who don't believe have no faith, people who do believe have faith Faith isn't a virtue, it's an excuse.
It tells you nothing about reality.
It's believing something when you have no justification for believing it.
It's ignorance said in a polite way, so that people can say "I have faith" instead of saying "I believing things for no reason"
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 4:52:48 GMT
People who don't believe have no faith, people who do believe have faith Faith isn't a virtue, it's an excuse.
It tells you nothing about reality.
It's believing something when you have no justification for believing it.
It's ignorance said in a polite way, so that people can say "I have faith" instead of saying "I believing things for no reason"
Lack of faith isn't a virtue and is also ignorant. I do have a reason for believing
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 23, 2017 6:42:58 GMT
Faith isn't a virtue, it's an excuse.
It tells you nothing about reality.
It's believing something when you have no justification for believing it.
It's ignorance said in a polite way, so that people can say "I have faith" instead of saying "I believing things for no reason"
Lack of faith isn't a virtue and is also ignorant. I do have a reason for believing Lack of faith is absolutely a virtue and anything but ignorant. I use evidence not faith. I learn instead of guess. I admit when I don't know the answer. Faith is what you appeal to when you don't have evidence and decide to make up an answer. Why would anybody do that?
What is your reason for believing?
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Post by phludowin on Mar 23, 2017 6:50:03 GMT
No it's not, as is evidenced in this thread.
This question can only be abswered by those who have faith.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 23, 2017 11:22:35 GMT
Lack of faith isn't a virtue and is also ignorant. I do have a reason for believing Lack of faith is absolutely a virtue and anything but ignorant. I use evidence not faith. I learn instead of guess. I admit when I don't know the answer. Faith is what you appeal to when you don't have evidence and decide to make up an answer. Why would anybody do that?
What is your reason for believing?
I thought the atheists version of faith was admitting to not knowing the answer. You may be the most faithful person here. It's just faith in silly stuff.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 23, 2017 11:28:23 GMT
I never talked about Noah's Ark when discussing Common Descent. I have never discussed my beliefs regarding Noah's Ark at all because I don't tend to discuss my beliefs. I prefer just highlighting the times people are wrong and treat the Bible as literature on the board since it highlights the fact that most theophobiacs are either illiterate or don't like reading it. I admitted my error and still called a liar so I can assume I can't have a rational discussion about this because you're behaving like a loon. Hoped that cleared it up for you! It might be a good idea to stop accusing me of stuff you don't know and then I wouldn't have to correct you or as you say "divert" you. Statements like this are proof that, and I'm saying this in the nicest way possible, that theophobiacs are stupid. This is anther reason that theophobiacs are Trump level idiots. Rather than acknowledge that which is clearly observable in the thread, that I misunderstood what was being discussed, you instead have to become a liar simply to call me a liar over an extremely stupid argument that you are not even capable of arguing about. I was even egging you on to expound further, but you were too stupid to pick up on it and instead decided to pay the lie card. You, sir, are a moron and I dare you to reply to me again so that I can continue to relentlessly insult you.
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Post by theoncomingstorm on Mar 23, 2017 11:52:12 GMT
What someone on this thread fails to comprehend - when your understanding of biology amounts to:
"Because it isn't that important so I don;t bother looking up info on it everyday, I forgot that common descent involved the One True Cell theory of everything that is essentially God as a cell which remains a ridiculous concept used only to explain that which is at least as blatantly impossible as a person more powerful than us having hand in creating life.
Linking the OP's statement (Derp aminos) to the notion that the most complex stem cell ever was one of the first things made is a clear sign of hoping in the Wizard of Oz level of "scientific theory", but it is well within your rights to believe something so silly. After all, scientist who can't prove anything said it and they're smarter than you so they must be onto something! It's either that or "Aliens did it" "
Then you are illiterate on this subject and have zero background to allow you to comment intelligently on the topic. Someone with absolutely no understanding of a topic has no qualifications for ignorantly pronouncing something as "ridiculous" or "blatantly impossible". The above quoted paragraphs are anti-intellectual horseshit from an anti-intellectual fuckwit.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 12:24:29 GMT
Lack of faith isn't a virtue and is also ignorant. I do have a reason for believing Lack of faith is absolutely a virtue and anything but ignorant. I use evidence not faith. I learn instead of guess. I admit when I don't know the answer. Faith is what you appeal to when you don't have evidence and decide to make up an answer. Why would anybody do that?
What is your reason for believing?
No, lack of faith means you have to have evidence because you don't understand something. If there was evidence there would be no need for faith and you don't understand God. I see evidence of God and His creations all around us.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 23, 2017 14:02:02 GMT
What someone on this thread fails to comprehend - when your understanding of biology amounts to: "Because it isn't that important so I don;t bother looking up info on it everyday, I forgot that common descent involved the One True Cell theory of everything that is essentially God as a cell which remains a ridiculous concept used only to explain that which is at least as blatantly impossible as a person more powerful than us having hand in creating life. Linking the OP's statement (Derp aminos) to the notion that the most complex stem cell ever was one of the first things made is a clear sign of hoping in the Wizard of Oz level of "scientific theory", but it is well within your rights to believe something so silly. After all, scientist who can't prove anything said it and they're smarter than you so they must be onto something! It's either that or "Aliens did it" " Then you are illiterate on this subject and have zero background to allow you to comment intelligently on the topic. Someone with absolutely no understanding of a topic has no qualifications for ignorantly pronouncing something as "ridiculous" or "blatantly impossible". The above quoted paragraphs are anti-intellectual horseshit from an anti-intellectual fuckwit. This coming from a guy whose whole argument for abiogenesis is that he believes it's biology in its entirety.
But anyway, I will entertain you for one second so that you can't pretend I'm scared of you even if I am scared of getting shot by you.
Come at me, Weedman, but we both know you don't actually know anything beyond being grumpy.
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Post by NishmatHaChalil on Mar 23, 2017 14:02:39 GMT
From the viewpoint of inductive-deductive probabilistic reasoning (including parsimoniousness) and Bayesian philosophy, both of which are reflected at a fundamental level in the scientific mindset, lack of faith is a virtue. A lesser virtue than keeping faith apart from hypothesis testing and data interpretation, but a virtue nonetheless. That being said, Lack of faith is absolutely a virtue and anything but ignorant. I use evidence not faith. I learn instead of guess. I admit when I don't know the answer. Faith is what you appeal to when you don't have evidence and decide to make up an answer. Why would anybody do that?
What is your reason for believing?
That's not an accurate description of your behavior. You have cast all evidence about TG people and their lives aside, and instead have chosen to maintain your own preset beliefs about them, about how they should live and about how they should or should not be treated by society. How isn't it faith? It certainly isn't learning, that I can assure you, and I can also assure you that it goes far beyond just "making up an answer". It's making up an answer that goes against all the available data (that is, the official answer provided both by science and by basic human rights) and that actually endangers thousands of people around the globe, and then imposing such an answer, by legal and social influence, on the way these people are allowed to live. By itself, faith in God, life forces or any other spiritual entities is completely harmless. Your faith, like that professed by fundamentalist and right-wing religious people who try to endanger these same groups and the secularism of Western politics, is not.
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Post by theoncomingstorm on Mar 23, 2017 14:13:39 GMT
What someone on this thread fails to comprehend - when your understanding of biology amounts to: "Because it isn't that important so I don;t bother looking up info on it everyday, I forgot that common descent involved the One True Cell theory of everything that is essentially God as a cell which remains a ridiculous concept used only to explain that which is at least as blatantly impossible as a person more powerful than us having hand in creating life. Linking the OP's statement (Derp aminos) to the notion that the most complex stem cell ever was one of the first things made is a clear sign of hoping in the Wizard of Oz level of "scientific theory", but it is well within your rights to believe something so silly. After all, scientist who can't prove anything said it and they're smarter than you so they must be onto something! It's either that or "Aliens did it" " Then you are illiterate on this subject and have zero background to allow you to comment intelligently on the topic. Someone with absolutely no understanding of a topic has no qualifications for ignorantly pronouncing something as "ridiculous" or "blatantly impossible". The above quoted paragraphs are anti-intellectual horseshit from an anti-intellectual fuckwit. This coming from a guy whose whole argument for abiogenesis is that he believes it's biology in its entirety.
But anyway, I will entertain you for one second so that you can't pretend I'm scared of you even if I am scared of getting shot by you.
Come at me, Weedman, but we both know you don't actually know anything beyond being grumpy.
I've provided evidence to you at least half a dozen times and your response is always the equivalent of "I don't understand what that says so it's just silly." You're also a liar if you claim otherwise but you've done just that in the post to which i am replying, so you're a liar (totally shocking, really). So it's your turn, journal and page number please. While you're at it you can explain what possesses you to go full Blade/ErJen and act as though having zero background in biology makes you qualified to make claims about biology which deny biology. Also, where the fuck did you even come up with that bullshit about thinking abiogenesis is biology in it's entirety?
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Post by cupcakes on Mar 23, 2017 15:20:59 GMT
tpfkar Nah, it's just more evidence that you'll look for any excuse to field your "heathen" or "theophobic" crybabying and other epithetin' to try to assuage your many bouts of acute aggrievement. However, this word is no big deal. It took me forever to find it after being chastised for using the h-word.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 23, 2017 15:56:26 GMT
Lack of faith is absolutely a virtue and anything but ignorant. I use evidence not faith. I learn instead of guess. I admit when I don't know the answer. Faith is what you appeal to when you don't have evidence and decide to make up an answer. Why would anybody do that?
What is your reason for believing?
No, lack of faith means you have to have evidence because you don't understand something. If there was evidence there would be no need for faith and you don't understand God. I see evidence of God and His creations all around us. There is no need for faith to begin with. The only time you use faith, is when you have no evidence to justify it.
What is the most convincing evidence you see for a god all around us?
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 23, 2017 16:04:34 GMT
From the viewpoint of inductive-deductive probabilistic reasoning (including parsimoniousness) and Bayesian philosophy, both of which are reflected at a fundamental level in the scientific mindset, lack of faith is a virtue. A lesser virtue than keeping faith apart from hypothesis testing and data interpretation, but a virtue nonetheless. That being said, Lack of faith is absolutely a virtue and anything but ignorant. I use evidence not faith. I learn instead of guess. I admit when I don't know the answer. Faith is what you appeal to when you don't have evidence and decide to make up an answer. Why would anybody do that?
What is your reason for believing?
That's not an accurate description of your behavior. You have cast all evidence about TG people and their lives aside, and instead have chosen to maintain your own preset beliefs about them, about how they should live and about how they should or should not be treated by society. How isn't it faith? It certainly isn't learning, that I can assure you, and I can also assure you that it goes far beyond just "making up an answer". It's making up an answer that goes against all the available data (that is, the official answer provided both by science and by basic human rights) and that actually endangers thousands of people around the globe, and then imposing such an answer, by legal and social influence, on the way these people are allowed to live. By itself, faith in God, life forces or any other spiritual entities is completely harmless. Your faith, like that professed by fundamentalist and right-wing religious people who try to endanger these same groups and the secularism of Western politics, is not. I didn't impose anything, I just asked a question, so your assertion that I endangered anybody makes no sense.
Second, faith is god isn't completely harmless. You might have noticed religious people claiming gays are evil, terrorism, subjugation of women, rejection of condoms, the spread of aids in Africa, and the press to have creationism taught in schools while at the same time encouraging the rejection of facts like evolution.
Religion is definitely harmful.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 16:14:56 GMT
No, lack of faith means you have to have evidence because you don't understand something. If there was evidence there would be no need for faith and you don't understand God. I see evidence of God and His creations all around us. There is no need for faith to begin with. The only time you use faith, is when you have no evidence to justify it.
What is the most convincing evidence you see for a god all around us?
You wouldn't understand
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 23, 2017 16:27:57 GMT
There is no need for faith to begin with. The only time you use faith, is when you have no evidence to justify it.
What is the most convincing evidence you see for a god all around us?
You wouldn't understand I would propose that you don't understand that everything from stars to planets to life can occur naturally. So what is it you see that requires a god? And what knowledge has using faith ever produced?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 16:37:47 GMT
I would propose that you don't understand that everything from stars to planets to life can occur naturally. So what is it you see that requires a god? And what knowledge has using faith ever produced? What's your evidence that it can occur naturally?
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Post by NishmatHaChalil on Mar 23, 2017 16:43:31 GMT
I didn't impose anything, I just asked a question, so your assertion that I endangered anybody makes no sense. As everyone in that thread agreed, you didn't ask questions. You implied TG people should accept their chromosomal type and the original form of their bodies, and that they were damaging themselves by accepting their identity. People then, including me, proceeded to give you all the evidence against your rule (which is an imposition, by the way) over their behavior and the irrational beliefs behind it, and you disregarded everything without any evidence. Why? Because they didn’t make you feel anything different. You are moved by faith alone, no reason nor science there. The things you implied are, yes, discussions about government policy (unless we lived in an abstract world where no discussion on practical issues that are a government’s responsibility ever becomes concrete, which is not the case), beyond of course already being, by themselves, expressions of social transphobia, which, yes, also impact society. All of this endangers TG people, and what makes no sense is your irrational belief that these things have no impact whatsoever. Nothing of this is faith in God by itself, which was what I referred to. Yes, other beliefs that often accompany faith in God and religion are in fact harmful, but they are not a given. There are progressive religious people with liberal political beliefs, you know? And they are far more progressive than you. So no, faith in God is not harmful by itself. According to the viewpoint I mentioned, it's a bad guess, but not necessarily a harmful one by itself. Your faith, however, is just as harmful as the examples you provided above. It drives policies that lead people to suicide, discrimination and violence, and it is itself a social expression of discrimination and identity denial.
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Post by sweetpea on Mar 23, 2017 21:22:52 GMT
I am Catholic. I believe in God, because I have faith that a better being exists. I don't expect anyone else to believe. I don't push my beliefs on anyone. I fully understand why. It's hard to believe in something that you cannot touch, or see, or hear. But it's sort of like the faith that I know there are good people out in the world. I don't know every single person. But like someone else said, it's rational to believe in it.
But I also believe there were other places besides Earth that something lived. Whether it is something like us, or completely different. I don't have actual evidence. But I don't think I am or Earth for that matter is so special, it is the only place in all the galaxies that has/had living things. You can call me wacky for these beliefs. But I am just someone who doesn't shut down simply because I cannot prove it.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 23, 2017 21:32:44 GMT
I would propose that you don't understand that everything from stars to planets to life can occur naturally. So what is it you see that requires a god? And what knowledge has using faith ever produced? What's your evidence that it can occur naturally? The fact that we've shown amino acids can form and that we've created self replicating RNA molecules. Notice I'm not claiming to know the entire process or that this is as an absolutely certainty.
What's your evidence that a god is required?
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