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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 6, 2018 16:25:02 GMT
Black Panther and Winter Soldier were made UNDER Disney's control. Sad isn't it that in 10 years they can only make 2 serious movies Sad isn't it that your definition of what is a serious movie is a very myopic one.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jul 6, 2018 18:17:11 GMT
Let's pretend that the MCU never jumped on the Disney ship and remained as they did during their first phase. Would that be better? Worse? How do you think that would have affected their shared universe? I don't think they would be better OR worse.
I think the difference would be that they wouldn't have the resources to make 3 films a year, get their distribution as high as it is now, get their licensing to be as wide an productive as Disney's, and give any one movie the kind of budget that Avengers Infinity War had and Avengers 4 will have, or the marketing campaigns such juggernauts need.
Over the last decade Disney has cemented its place as THE foremost movie and entertainment studio in the world. And Marvel is now a tent pole of that success.
So its not a matter of better or worse, but rather how much more they can do.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jul 6, 2018 18:57:47 GMT
Way better,the movies are so childish and cheesy under Disney's control,the only good ones are black panther and Winter Soldier Really? You can honestly say that you see a turn towards the "more childish and cheesy" since Disney? So you don't think that Winter Soldier was a somewhat darker movie? You don't think Civil War was a somewhat darker movie, what with all the deaths of parents and friends backstabbing one another? You don't think Guardians 2 takes a sadder turn with Yondu dying and Ego being a scam of a dad? You don't think Thor Ragnarok takes a turn when all of Asgard falls and Thor loses everything, his home, his eye, his hammer, his dad? You don't think IW is sadder/darker with all the deaths involved and the stakes raised so high? You think all that stuff is the childish cheezy Disney coming through?
What happens is that Disney as a brand is known mostly for Mickey Mouse and cartoons. So people automatically associate the word Disney with that. They don't take into consideration that Disney is no longer what it was when it was run by Walt himself. The people who run Disney NOW are smart enough to know that you cannot "kiddie-fy" all your movies unless you run the risk of ruining everything. To that end they release most of their movies under different banners: Touchstone, Pixar, Lucasfilm, Marvel; allowing their movies to be told as they need to told.
So this idea that all movies that come out of Disney are "childish and cheesy" is all in your head. The Marvel movies are no different than when they were coming out under their own studio, which by the way they still are. The Disney deal is really just a business and distribution deal. Kevin Feige is still the show runner over there.
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Post by hobowar on Jul 7, 2018 2:32:44 GMT
Way better,the movies are so childish and cheesy under Disney's control,the only good ones are black panther and Winter Soldier Really? You can honestly say that you see a turn towards the "more childish and cheesy" since Disney? So you don't think that Winter Soldier was a somewhat darker movie? You don't think Civil War was a somewhat darker movie, what with all the deaths of parents and friends backstabbing one another? You don't think Guardians 2 takes a sadder turn with Yondu dying and Ego being a scam of a dad? You don't think Thor Ragnarok takes a turn when all of Asgard falls and Thor loses everything, his home, his eye, his hammer, his dad? You don't think IW is sadder/darker with all the deaths involved and the stakes raised so high? You think all that stuff is the childish cheezy Disney coming through?
What happens is that Disney as a brand is known mostly for Mickey Mouse and cartoons. So people automatically associate the word Disney with that. They don't take into consideration that Disney is no longer what it was when it was run by Walt himself. The people who run Disney NOW are smart enough to know that you cannot "kiddie-fy" all your movies unless you run the risk of ruining everything. To that end they release most of their movies under different banners: Touchstone, Pixar, Lucasfilm, Marvel; allowing their movies to be told as they need to told.
So this idea that all movies that come out of Disney are "childish and cheesy" is all in your head. The Marvel movies are no different than when they were coming out under their own studio, which by the way they still are. The Disney deal is really just a business and distribution deal. Kevin Feige is still the show runner over there.
Isn't Pulp Fiction technically a Disney movie?
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Post by thenewnexus on Jul 7, 2018 4:24:14 GMT
Way better,the movies are so childish and cheesy under Disney's control,the only good ones are black panther and Winter Soldier Really? You can honestly say that you see a turn towards the "more childish and cheesy" since Disney? So you don't think that Winter Soldier was a somewhat darker movie? You don't think Civil War was a somewhat darker movie, what with all the deaths of parents and friends backstabbing one another? You don't think Guardians 2 takes a sadder turn with Yondu dying and Ego being a scam of a dad? You don't think Thor Ragnarok takes a turn when all of Asgard falls and Thor loses everything, his home, his eye, his hammer, his dad? You don't think IW is sadder/darker with all the deaths involved and the stakes raised so high? You think all that stuff is the childish cheezy Disney coming through?
What happens is that Disney as a brand is known mostly for Mickey Mouse and cartoons. So people automatically associate the word Disney with that. They don't take into consideration that Disney is no longer what it was when it was run by Walt himself. The people who run Disney NOW are smart enough to know that you cannot "kiddie-fy" all your movies unless you run the risk of ruining everything. To that end they release most of their movies under different banners: Touchstone, Pixar, Lucasfilm, Marvel; allowing their movies to be told as they need to told.
So this idea that all movies that come out of Disney are "childish and cheesy" is all in your head. The Marvel movies are no different than when they were coming out under their own studio, which by the way they still are. The Disney deal is really just a business and distribution deal. Kevin Feige is still the show runner over there.
Those movies had a bunch of jokes.compared to tbe last two thor movie Shitnerok seems like sitcom,especially when Loki ans Thor talk to each other plus there is No Darcy she was the best character. The whole battle CW was a joke. "i m Clint" Hawkeye says to Black Panther,"I don't care"
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 7, 2018 7:32:18 GMT
Really? You can honestly say that you see a turn towards the "more childish and cheesy" since Disney? So you don't think that Winter Soldier was a somewhat darker movie? You don't think Civil War was a somewhat darker movie, what with all the deaths of parents and friends backstabbing one another? You don't think Guardians 2 takes a sadder turn with Yondu dying and Ego being a scam of a dad? You don't think Thor Ragnarok takes a turn when all of Asgard falls and Thor loses everything, his home, his eye, his hammer, his dad? You don't think IW is sadder/darker with all the deaths involved and the stakes raised so high? You think all that stuff is the childish cheezy Disney coming through?
What happens is that Disney as a brand is known mostly for Mickey Mouse and cartoons. So people automatically associate the word Disney with that. They don't take into consideration that Disney is no longer what it was when it was run by Walt himself. The people who run Disney NOW are smart enough to know that you cannot "kiddie-fy" all your movies unless you run the risk of ruining everything. To that end they release most of their movies under different banners: Touchstone, Pixar, Lucasfilm, Marvel; allowing their movies to be told as they need to told.
So this idea that all movies that come out of Disney are "childish and cheesy" is all in your head. The Marvel movies are no different than when they were coming out under their own studio, which by the way they still are. The Disney deal is really just a business and distribution deal. Kevin Feige is still the show runner over there.
Those movies had a bunch of jokes.compared to tbe last two thor movie Shitnerok seems like sitcom,especially when Loki ans Thor talk to each other plus there is No Darcy she was the best character. The whole battle CW was a joke. "i m Clint" Hawkeye says to Black Panther,"I don't care" Not as many as you claim and definitely not as childish or of such hindrance to the plot as you make it to be. Thor and Loki interacted differently in Ragnarok because they had grown as characters since their debut in the mcu. Darcy wasn't the best character and if you cannot give a halfway decent explanation for why she is then she simply isn't worthy of holding such a position to begin with. And no, the battle in CW was definitely not a "joke", stop making it out to be like it was one giant Three Stooges routine.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 7, 2018 7:32:38 GMT
Really? You can honestly say that you see a turn towards the "more childish and cheesy" since Disney? So you don't think that Winter Soldier was a somewhat darker movie? You don't think Civil War was a somewhat darker movie, what with all the deaths of parents and friends backstabbing one another? You don't think Guardians 2 takes a sadder turn with Yondu dying and Ego being a scam of a dad? You don't think Thor Ragnarok takes a turn when all of Asgard falls and Thor loses everything, his home, his eye, his hammer, his dad? You don't think IW is sadder/darker with all the deaths involved and the stakes raised so high? You think all that stuff is the childish cheezy Disney coming through?
What happens is that Disney as a brand is known mostly for Mickey Mouse and cartoons. So people automatically associate the word Disney with that. They don't take into consideration that Disney is no longer what it was when it was run by Walt himself. The people who run Disney NOW are smart enough to know that you cannot "kiddie-fy" all your movies unless you run the risk of ruining everything. To that end they release most of their movies under different banners: Touchstone, Pixar, Lucasfilm, Marvel; allowing their movies to be told as they need to told.
So this idea that all movies that come out of Disney are "childish and cheesy" is all in your head. The Marvel movies are no different than when they were coming out under their own studio, which by the way they still are. The Disney deal is really just a business and distribution deal. Kevin Feige is still the show runner over there.
Isn't Pulp Fiction technically a Disney movie? Yes.
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Post by Vassaggo on Jul 7, 2018 8:25:36 GMT
Really? You can honestly say that you see a turn towards the "more childish and cheesy" since Disney? So you don't think that Winter Soldier was a somewhat darker movie? You don't think Civil War was a somewhat darker movie, what with all the deaths of parents and friends backstabbing one another? You don't think Guardians 2 takes a sadder turn with Yondu dying and Ego being a scam of a dad? You don't think Thor Ragnarok takes a turn when all of Asgard falls and Thor loses everything, his home, his eye, his hammer, his dad? You don't think IW is sadder/darker with all the deaths involved and the stakes raised so high? You think all that stuff is the childish cheezy Disney coming through?
What happens is that Disney as a brand is known mostly for Mickey Mouse and cartoons. So people automatically associate the word Disney with that. They don't take into consideration that Disney is no longer what it was when it was run by Walt himself. The people who run Disney NOW are smart enough to know that you cannot "kiddie-fy" all your movies unless you run the risk of ruining everything. To that end they release most of their movies under different banners: Touchstone, Pixar, Lucasfilm, Marvel; allowing their movies to be told as they need to told.
So this idea that all movies that come out of Disney are "childish and cheesy" is all in your head. The Marvel movies are no different than when they were coming out under their own studio, which by the way they still are. The Disney deal is really just a business and distribution deal. Kevin Feige is still the show runner over there.
Those movies had a bunch of jokes.compared to tbe last two thor movie Shitnerok seems like sitcom,especially when Loki ans Thor talk to each other plus there is No Darcy she was the best character. The whole battle CW was a joke. "i m Clint" Hawkeye says to Black Panther,"I don't care" You've ignored me and others asking you this. So I'll continue to ask until you answer. How do you fit this two ideas together? "Those movies had a bunch of jokes." This means that jokes makes the movie more kiddie, but you also say "...No Darcy she was the best character." The sole purpose of Darcy's character was comic relief in Thor. Her character is one long string of jokes. She does nothing as a character to move the plot. She just breaks up the script with comedy/jokes. No wait, she moves the plot along once when she shocked Thor. She uses a stun gun which gets Thor from the field to the hospital. She literally moves the plot by method of a joke. So we ask again how can you believe these two things without being a hypocrite? We are honestly curious. We are trying not to think of you as a hypocrite. If you have a solid reason and a way of reconciling the two concepts we surely would listen gratefully.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Jul 7, 2018 10:41:38 GMT
Black Panther and Winter Soldier were made UNDER Disney's control.Β Sad isn't it that in 10 years they can only make 2 serious movies Infinity War wasn't a serious film? Really?
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Jul 7, 2018 10:44:18 GMT
Those movies had a bunch of jokes.compared to tbe last two thor movie Shitnerok seems like sitcom,especially when Loki ans Thor talk to each other plus there is No Darcy she was the best character. The whole battle CW was a joke. "i m Clint" Hawkeye says to Black Panther,"I don't care" You've ignored me and others asking you this. So I'll continue to ask until you answer.Β How do you fit this two ideas together? "Those movies had a bunch of jokes." This means that jokes makes the movie more kiddie, but you also say "...No Darcy she was the best character." The sole purpose of Darcy's character was comic relief in Thor. Her character is one long string of jokes. She does nothing as a character to move the plot. She just breaks up the script with comedy/jokes. No wait, she moves the plot along once when she shocked Thor. She uses a stun gun which gets Thor from the field to the hospital. She literally moves the plot by method of a joke. So we ask again how can you believe these two things without being a hypocrite? We are honestly curious. We are trying not to think of you as a hypocrite. If you have a solid reason and a way of reconciling the two concepts we surely would listen gratefully. Don't bother. He only thinks her "humor" is acceptable because he has a crush on the actress. If Darcy was played by anyone else he wouldn't be defending that character.
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Post by thenewnexus on Jul 7, 2018 12:06:44 GMT
Sad isn't it that in 10 years they can only make 2 serious movies Infinity War wasn't a serious film? Really? The Ending is the only somewhat serious part. New York is being attacked Stark,Wong,Banner and Strange are talking about Ice Cream. Stark calls that one alien squidward. When the Guardians find Thor,Starlord mocks him. Starlord calls thanos grimus. Gamora tells Starlord to kill her,Drax is just there eating chips and Mantis comes out of nowhere and it makes it even more awkward
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Post by thenewnexus on Jul 7, 2018 12:08:36 GMT
Those movies had a bunch of jokes.compared to tbe last two thor movie Shitnerok seems like sitcom,especially when Loki ans Thor talk to each other plus there is No Darcy she was the best character. The whole battle CW was a joke. "i m Clint" Hawkeye says to Black Panther,"I don't care" You've ignored me and others asking you this. So I'll continue to ask until you answer. How do you fit this two ideas together? "Those movies had a bunch of jokes." This means that jokes makes the movie more kiddie, but you also say "...No Darcy she was the best character." The sole purpose of Darcy's character was comic relief in Thor. Her character is one long string of jokes. She does nothing as a character to move the plot. She just breaks up the script with comedy/jokes. No wait, she moves the plot along once when she shocked Thor. She uses a stun gun which gets Thor from the field to the hospital. She literally moves the plot by method of a joke. So we ask again how can you believe these two things without being a hypocrite? We are honestly curious. We are trying not to think of you as a hypocrite. If you have a solid reason and a way of reconciling the two concepts we surely would listen gratefully. The answer is all there
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Post by Vassaggo on Jul 7, 2018 12:24:28 GMT
You've ignored me and others asking you this. So I'll continue to ask until you answer. How do you fit this two ideas together? "Those movies had a bunch of jokes." This means that jokes makes the movie more kiddie, but you also say "...No Darcy she was the best character." The sole purpose of Darcy's character was comic relief in Thor. Her character is one long string of jokes. She does nothing as a character to move the plot. She just breaks up the script with comedy/jokes. No wait, she moves the plot along once when she shocked Thor. She uses a stun gun which gets Thor from the field to the hospital. She literally moves the plot by method of a joke. So we ask again how can you believe these two things without being a hypocrite? We are honestly curious. We are trying not to think of you as a hypocrite. If you have a solid reason and a way of reconciling the two concepts we surely would listen gratefully. The answer is all there Care to elucidate further? Right now your answer seems to imply that you agree with the first hypothesis. That you will be a hypocrite if you have those views. I mean it is all there.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 7, 2018 16:01:28 GMT
You've ignored me and others asking you this. So I'll continue to ask until you answer. How do you fit this two ideas together? "Those movies had a bunch of jokes." This means that jokes makes the movie more kiddie, but you also say "...No Darcy she was the best character." The sole purpose of Darcy's character was comic relief in Thor. Her character is one long string of jokes. She does nothing as a character to move the plot. She just breaks up the script with comedy/jokes. No wait, she moves the plot along once when she shocked Thor. She uses a stun gun which gets Thor from the field to the hospital. She literally moves the plot by method of a joke. So we ask again how can you believe these two things without being a hypocrite? We are honestly curious. We are trying not to think of you as a hypocrite. If you have a solid reason and a way of reconciling the two concepts we surely would listen gratefully. The answer is all there If you're going to troll at least put in some effort.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 7, 2018 16:03:18 GMT
Infinity War wasn't a serious film? Really? The Ending is the only somewhat serious part. New York is being attacked Stark,Wong,Banner and Strange are talking about Ice Cream. Stark calls that one alien squidward. When the Guardians find Thor,Starlord mocks him. Starlord calls thanos grimus. Gamora tells Starlord to kill her,Drax is just there eating chips and Mantis comes out of nowhere and it makes it even more awkward So basically the movie is serious and you don't mind anything you just listed - I'm certain enough to think you laughed very hard at all of them in the theater.
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Post by thenewnexus on Jul 8, 2018 1:59:33 GMT
The Ending is the only somewhat serious part. New York is being attacked Stark,Wong,Banner and Strange are talking about Ice Cream. Stark calls that one alien squidward. When the Guardians find Thor,Starlord mocks him. Starlord calls thanos grimus. Gamora tells Starlord to kill her,Drax is just there eating chips and Mantis comes out of nowhere and it makes it even more awkward So basically the movie is serious and you don't mind anything you just listed - I'm certain enough to think you laughed very hard at all of them in the theater. Luke Cage Season 2 was much better and mature.
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Post by Vassaggo on Jul 8, 2018 2:12:16 GMT
So basically the movie is serious and you don't mind anything you just listed - I'm certain enough to think you laughed very hard at all of them in the theater. Luke Cage Season 2 was much better and mature. Dodging the question so you don't have to reconcile two irreconcilable beliefs. Good Call. When you have no defensible argument the only thing you can do is retreat. No one believes you about both of your assertions. So either you don't believe jokes are childish and kiddie in superhero stories or Kat Dennings' acting as Darcy isn't the greatest acting performance and character in the MCU. She can't be because her character is nothing but jokes.
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Post by darkpast on Jul 8, 2018 2:16:56 GMT
MCU would be better overall without disney, but MCU would probably have more failures without Disney
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Post by Vassaggo on Jul 8, 2018 6:46:16 GMT
I still think Ike Perlmutter would've fragged the whole universe if he was left in complete control any longer. He would've chosen the cheapest solution every time. He'll be damned if he was minimizing potential revenue in the future over the base savings he could have today.
Right after Ironman 3 when RDJ would have to renegotiate or add more films on to his contract the first big blow would've rocked Marvel. Ike Perlmutter already hated the fact that RDJ was making so much money. In 2012 he got $10 million in salary and $29 million in film profit from the Avengers. Then in 2013 RDJ got $10 million in salary and $25 million in film profit from Ironman 3.
In 2014 Ike Perlmetter wanted to not renegotiate RDJ's contract. He felt that RDJ wasn't worth the amount of money they were paying him. At this time Perlmetter answered to Disney. He campaigned to Disney to drop RDJ. Kevin Feige successfully convinced Disney to keep RDJ happy and renegotiated/reupped his contract. If Disney didn't own Marvel, it would've been Ike's decision to resign RDJ.
Obviously Ike wanted him gone so RDJ would've been gone. In the turf war that ensued during 2014 and 2015 between Feige and Perlmutter, rumor had it that Feige had had enough. He was going to quit. Instead Disney restructured Marvel Studios and Marvel Entertainment. This got Ike out of Kevin's hair. Without Disney calling the shots Ike would've pushed Feige out of Marvel Studios by 2015.
Universally, Kevin Feige is given credit for show running the MCU like it was a elaborate serialized TV show. He has succeeded where others have failed. Without Feige the MCU would've collapsed under it's own weight. Especially with Perlmutter cutting cost where ever he saw fit. This is a man who got upset and dug in trash cans in the office looking for paper clips disposed.
He had already fired one actor Terrance Howard because of salary. In Ironman RDJ only received $300,000 where Terrance Howard made $3.5 million with a $5 million bonus if a sequel was greenlit. Instead of paying Howard $5 million bonus. He fired him and gave the job to Cheadle for less than $1 million. Ike used these tactics his whole career. So he told Howard if he didn't take a 50%-80% pay cut due to reduced lines and scenes he would be replaced. Rumor has it his Agent said "Fuck You" and Cheadle was signed on 3 days later.
Chris Evans made less than $300,000 for his first film Captain America The First Avenger. You can be sure as Chris' salary was going to raise also. Ike would've done the same thing to Chris that he did for RDJ and Howard. This would've caused a lot of the actors to feel less secure about their jobs/contracts. Some would've taken pay reductions, but a lot wouldn't. You would have massive turnover rate of actors in parts under Ike. It would also significantly hinder Marvel from hiring new good talent. Why would you join a series where if you became popular the Brass tried to force you to take a pay cut and leave.
So the acting talent would've dried up. This sort of thing was happening behind the scenes for Directors, Writers, and editors. Ike cutting out people unless they reigned in their salaries. This would've dried up the well for those positions too. I mean who would want to work in that environment. You are basically punished for your success. Ike would've made sure the female characters had minimal screen time and he wouldn't green light female superhero leads. He saw no value in them. I dare say the MCU would've collapsed by 2016/2017.
By this time (2016/2017) you had lost your main actor who was the tread through the whole series in front of the camera. Behind the camera you would've lost the man, Kevin Feige that kept the overall narrative straight and planned out the movies. You can bet Chris Evans and Chris Hemsworth would've been out by 2017.
I don't know with Ike if he would've even greenlit Guardian's of the Galaxy to begin with. The story and characters were not well known. This could mean that Ike would've been able to lower the salaries on the esoteric IP. If that is so then Chris Pratt would've still been hired. Or it could've went the other way. Ike seeing that there was no demand for the Guardians might have passed up on the risk.
I believe the MCU would've been reeling by 2016/2017. I have no clue what that would've done to Marvel Studios or Marvel Entertainment, but it wouldn't have been good. Without Disney it's fair to say that Marvel Studios, entertainment, and MCU would've been vastly different than they are today.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 8, 2018 7:16:52 GMT
So basically the movie is serious and you don't mind anything you just listed - I'm certain enough to think you laughed very hard at all of them in the theater. Luke Cage Season 2 was much better and mature. So basically the MCU has been nothing but a winner for you this year?
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