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Post by phludowin on Jul 17, 2018 21:40:39 GMT
You haven't even watched that video have you? Does this video have a transcript? If it doesn't, then its informational value is probably negligeable.
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Post by phludowin on Jul 17, 2018 21:44:47 GMT
Does this video have a transcript? If it doesn't, then its informational value is probably negligeable. Please take it as it comes. So no transcript. I am not surprised.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2018 3:06:58 GMT
I obviously am in favor of equality but my issue with feminism is that it only focuses on where women are disadvantaged and ignores where men can be disadvantaged too. How can there be an egalitarian society if you only focus on one gender? What a ridiculous argument. Feminism is concerned with restoring a power balance for a traditionally oppressed and marginalized group. Those who have been enjoying the privileges of their gender have had all the time they need to work out any issues on their end if those issues were of any genuine concern. Feminism of course welcomes those efforts, but its focus has always been on the situations faced by women. Yes but that goes back to my point that feminism focuses on one gender, which as a result couldn't achieve equality but only progress in the areas where women are disadvantaged. Both men and women can experience privileges of their gender.
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Post by faustus5 on Jul 18, 2018 10:41:19 GMT
There are already organizational movements dedicated to addressing disadvantages that are alleged to be experienced by men only. Everyone has a part to play.
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Post by faustus5 on Jul 18, 2018 10:42:44 GMT
. . . when they have exactly the same privilege as males, perhaps even more in some cases. Your monstrous disconnect from objective reality has been duly noted.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jul 18, 2018 11:00:41 GMT
Yes, she is a strong commentator and makes many valid and salient points. Yes. That would be the sort of strong and opinionated woman which, oddly enough you take objection to when they disagree with your philosophy... Since you have not been able to provide an executive summary as asked I don't have an opinion about what she is saying. But I would imagine that she is not suggesting that she should be subject to misogyny, wider discrimination, to be discarded after sex, and to be paid less for equivalent work compared to men - let alone to stop 'whining' and to just be grateful. But one never knows. Perhaps you have picked a suitably compliant female. I am not projecting/proposing anything with my question to you, Cheese. Certainly not 'prefect equality' when I only consider that which is practicable and reasonable. But you have been told this before. I am asking for a description of any advantages to us all of an inequitable society. It seems you cannot think of any, and instead just offer excuses. Ah well. I think you asked this before, and the answer before was: en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/equality It appears that not only do you not know the definition of key words and concepts, but you forget once you are told lol. For some reason you appear to think that something worthwhile and worthy, even if hard or impossible to achieve 100% or to perfection, is not worth striving for. I disagree. Mankind deserves better. Didn't read, or have forgotten, the Appeal to Nature fallacy from before, too, eh? theredphoenixapl.org/2011/06/02/the-human-nature-argument None of which is an argument for anything, except your aggressive defensiveness and fondness for personal attacks.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jul 18, 2018 15:16:56 GMT
You just like to hear yourself think. No, I would more like to have you answer my questions, and give that executive summary of the video you must think so highly of. Yes, I am sure the torch-lit rallies you go to are much more highly attended. That's why I need a summary from your good self - presumably one who has watched it and listened to what the strong, opinionated woman has to say about society and feminism. (Unless of course you find her too whiney) See how it works? An ad hominem is still not an argument, unfortunately. It is, however, much easier to 'handle things' the same as others when on a equal footing with them, is it not? Nope, rudeness is still not an argument.... Did you forget to finish of "... if I can help it" ? Still not an argument.. And the Argument from Nature is still a fallacy. Repeating a fallacy in the belief it becomes truer on repetition is another one. Quite a rant, lol instead of just answering my question, Cheese. What advantages to the whole do you see springing from an inequitable society, where equality for all would be reasonable and practicable? You know, I don't think you can find any, otherwise you would keen to list them and embarrass my point. And, btw: "Fool!" is not an argument, either.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jul 19, 2018 11:55:13 GMT
I wasn't aware you were presenting me with any decent and lucid argument, that isn't steeped in your own sense of self-importance and tainted by your misguided self-absorption. Nope, rudeness is still really not working out as an argument. But keep trying. Neither is this new sexist language of yours very flattering. But it suggests the sort of unfortunate attitude you have to women - and so really makes my point over again. So I thank you.
I'll take my definitions from dictionaries, thanks all the same. But if you have an alternate definition of equality to link to, feel free I'd love to read it. I can certainly see you have problems in understanding, let alone applying the term, whatever.
"I do not wish women to have power over men; but over themselves" Mary Shelley.
This sort of thing is still not an argument - other than one for your rudeness in lieu of answering inconvenient questions, of course lol. Its a shame its all you have.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jul 19, 2018 14:49:40 GMT
You should be used to rudeness by now, you probably encounter it daily. You do realize your pretense and passive aggressive manner make you an easy target, especially when you are so transparent and only pretend to know what you are talking about. You want something that is impossible to attain, yet still argue for your shortcomings. What an ego! No wonder you don't feel that bruising yet. Somethings gotta give sometime though. You are only inconveniencing yourself in the long run. Nope; that is still not an answer to my questions. What a shame.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jul 19, 2018 15:03:23 GMT
Nope; that is still not an answer to my questions. What a shame. See my edit**. I doubt you will answer that one either. How shameful you can't swallow your pride. ** "it doesn't matter whatever strides and achievements women make, they will never match the almighty power of the male—you are an exception, being the mangina that you are—because they are way too needy for men and straight men will always use them for sex, just as they always have and always will. What do you think will happen, once women do get empowerment over themselves? Do you think it will make the world a better place? "
Wow, sexism and an insult in one straight para lol. Good work. But that is still not an answer, and I have now asked it of you what? Six times?. It does however reinforce the impression one has of you, and your vexed relation to women. Oh sorry - 'chicks'. LOL
But now, since you are just descending into predictable uninspiring rudeness and tedious sexism, this is where I must leave you on this thread. Best of luck on date night.
Oh, and the answer to your question, and I at least don't mind answering questions, unlike your good self, is - yes.
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 19, 2018 15:07:57 GMT
See my edit**. I doubt you will answer that one either. How shameful you can't swallow your pride. ** "it doesn't matter whatever strides and achievements women make, they will never match the almighty power of the male—you are an exception, being the mangina that you are—because they are way too needy for men and straight men will always use them for sex, just as they always have and always will. What do you think will happen, once women do get empowerment over themselves? Do you think it will make the world a better place? "
Wow, sexism and an insult in one straight para lol. Good work. But that is still not an answer, and I have now asked it of you what? Six times?. It does however reinforce the impression one has of you, and your vexed relation to women. Oh sorry - 'chicks'. LOL
But now, since you are just descending into predictable uninspiring rudeness and tedious sexism, this is where I must leave you on this thread. Best of luck on date night.
Oh, and the answer to your question, and I at least don't mind answering questions, unlike your good self, is - yes.
Thanks. It took some posts but things became crystal clear eventually. But I did laugh on this "almighty" power thing.
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 19, 2018 15:15:51 GMT
Cinemachinery Dude, if you want some good old Mutha style unintentional comedy and misogyny then just go through some of the previous posts of this thread. I will quote the best of the gems.
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Post by Cinemachinery on Jul 19, 2018 15:28:37 GMT
Cinemachinery Dude, if you want some good old Mutha style unintentional comedy and misogyny then just go through some of the previous posts of this thread. I will quote the best of the gems. Whoo! Someone sounds very, very single. No joke, this post may as well be copied from an incel forum. Same exact verbiage as their bitter bachelor rants.
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 19, 2018 19:58:26 GMT
Cinemachinery Dude, if you want some good old Mutha style unintentional comedy and misogyny then just go through some of the previous posts of this thread. I will quote the best of the gems. Whoo! Someone sounds very, very single. No joke, this post may as well be copied from an incel forum. Same exact verbiage as their bitter bachelor rants. Whatever it is, I have never seen a person more detached from reality. His views are like this on most issues. And the most unbelievable but true part is that he is a homosexual. But there is so much of stupidity in his posts that even Mutha might be proud. Especially of his almighty man power!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 21:33:32 GMT
I have not come across any feminists who hold the opinion that all men are rapists. I've come across a number of them. And yet, if you google the phrase "all men are rapists" You don't find anybody espousing that view. You find a lot of people discussing it, but nobody actually saying they believe it. Which is odd, if it's a widely held view. All men are potential rapists. And potential murderers. And potential a whole hell of a lot of other things. So are all women.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 1:47:13 GMT
Feminists overall however, regardless of the degree of their stance, can tend to jump on the bandwagon regarding the behavior of a handful of men and then attempt to malign ALL males by claiming that it is a common male trait to attack, rape, oppress and even murder women, as though this behavior is just something inherent in males, regardless of who they are. Do they, though? Can you provide me with any links to mainstream feminists who seriously advocate for the idea you just described? Or is it just that you hear the extremists all the time, and never hear any other feminist view? I ask because I find it fascinating that over the last few years people have taken to demonising feminism in this way. I can't decide if it is just the standard media thing that only the most extreme and spectacular aspects of anything get reported, since hey, that's what gets the ratings. Or if it's an agenda being pushed by somebody somewhere. Or, more likely, both. It's a pretty standard procedure which has been applied to many things now. You take the most extreme, out-there members or activities of any large and diverse group. You relentlessly report what they have to say - and in every case, act as though that is representative of the group as a whole. Thus, people come to think of the group as being extreme. And nobody can accuse you of misrepresenting them, because hey, you're just reporting what they say. It's a smart move. I'm curious as to whether it will really work, and if so what it will be used to justify.
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 20, 2018 2:43:25 GMT
Whatever it is, I have never seen a person more detached from reality. His views are like this on most issues. And the most unbelievable but true part is that he is a homosexual. But there is so much of stupidity in his posts that even Mutha might be proud. Especially of his almighty man power! No, it's just that you don't get it. Probably because I lack that "almighty man power"? But on a serious note, most people are not going to take you seriously on this board hereafter. You have revealed yourself to be totally lacking in knowledge of what actually feminism is all about and further you have a habit of dragging a discussion by continuously bringing up irrelevant points. I am not a feminist but I have a general if not expert understanding of what is feminism. It is rather childish to make statements such as "feminism will never bring absolute equality" or that "there are also issues that men face in society". Feminism or for that matter most of the movements that exist do not work on principle of bringing absolute equality in society. Feminism is about restoring gender equality as much as possible and closing the gap and eliminating gender discrimination, which exists for real. It is not about stopping you from doing things to reduce problems that men face. Go ahead and do sort out issues of men. But it is a fact that there is imbalance of power across all cultures. Differences that are avoidable and exist merely because of misogyny or prejudices. Women face significantly higher domestic violence rates as well as greater impediments to their growth and freedom. Feminism aims to address all these things. You were asking what is misogyny and where are the misogynists? Misogynists are all around us. They are the people who hold prejudices against women because of gender. These people dislike women just for the reason that they are females or because they feel they are superior to women. It is a fact that significantly more violence is perpetrated on females by males than on males by females. Many more women are killed by their male partners than men are killed by their female partners. There are silly arguments made by anti-feminists that things have now changed in west and there is no misogyny. Not really. Spain saw record violence against women in 2017. That is last year for which data is available. There have been historic marches in Europe even this year to address gender discrimination against women. There is significant pay gap between earnings of men and women for the same kind of work in the same countries all across the western world. These differences cannot be dismissed by claiming that women work in less precarious jobs or that they work less paid hours overall. The pay gaps have been found to exist in spite of making all sorts of required adjustments. Then there is the matter of bringing up and freedom given to males and females. While more significant in Asian and African countries, there are prejudices against women even in western countries. All of this is highly correlated with our history. How women were always disadvantaged in legal ownership of property and inheritance. Things have improved to a great extent but there are still significant possibilities of much more improvements even in western society. I also find it extremely childish when some anti-feminists bring issue of domestic violence on men and existence of work place discrimination against men as a retort against gender discrimination against females. Sure, men can also be on the receiving end. But the extent of gender related disadvantages that women face is significantly greater. I am not a feminist nor do I want to be one but I can see their point. To question the existence of misogyny in western world is nothing but crazy talk. Apart from that exaggerating and misrepresenting any group's real position is nothing bus dishonesty. If I find something objectionable about feminism then I will discuss that. I will not create a fictitious form of feminism and then attack that.
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 20, 2018 9:38:26 GMT
Probably because I lack that "almighty man power"? But on a serious note, most people are not going to take you seriously on this board hereafter. You have revealed yourself to be totally lacking in knowledge of what actually feminism is all about and further you have a habit of dragging a discussion by continuously bringing up irrelevant points. I am not a feminist but I have a general if not expert understanding of what is feminism. It is rather childish to make statements such as "feminism will never bring absolute equality" or that "there are also issues that men face in society". Feminism or for that matter most of the movements that exist do not work on principle of bringing absolute equality in society. Feminism is about restoring gender equality as much as possible and closing the gap and eliminating gender discrimination, which exists for real. It is not about stopping you from doing things to reduce problems that men face. Go ahead and do sort out issues of men. But it is a fact that there is imbalance of power across all cultures. Differences that are avoidable and exist merely because of misogyny or prejudices. Women face significantly higher domestic violence rates as well as greater impediments to their growth and freedom. Feminism aims to address all these things. You were asking what is misogyny and where are the misogynists? Misogynists are all around us. They are the people who hold prejudices against women because of gender. These people dislike women just for the reason that they are females or because they feel they are superior to women. It is a fact that significantly more violence is perpetrated on females by males than on males by females. Many more women are killed by their male partners than men are killed by their female partners. There are silly arguments made by anti-feminists that things have now changed in west and there is no misogyny. Not really. Spain saw record violence against women in 2017. That is last year for which data is available. There have been historic marches in Europe even this year to address gender discrimination against women. There is significant pay gap between earnings of men and women for the same kind of work in the same countries all across the western world. These differences cannot be dismissed by claiming that women work in less precarious jobs or that they work less paid hours overall. The pay gaps have been found to exist in spite of making all sorts of required adjustments. Then there is the matter of bringing up and freedom given to males and females. While more significant in Asian and African countries, there are prejudices against women even in western countries. All of this is highly correlated with our history. How women were always disadvantaged in legal ownership of property and inheritance. Things have improved to a great extent but there are still significant possibilities of much more improvements even in western society. I also find it extremely childish when some anti-feminists bring issue of domestic violence on men and existence of work place discrimination against men as a retort against gender discrimination against females. Sure, men can also be on the receiving end. But the extent of gender related disadvantages that women face is significantly greater. I am not a feminist nor do I want to be one but I can see their point. To question the existence of misogyny in western world is nothing but crazy talk. Apart from that exaggerating and misrepresenting any group's real position is nothing bus dishonesty. If I find something objectionable about feminism then I will discuss that. I will not create a fictitious form of feminism and then attack that.
What a boring freakin' essay, full of spoonfed lies and delusions, just like a feminist, so don't deny you aren't one. Sorry, but you are full of it and just as I thought, you DON'T GET IT. You are also condescending as well. And yes, you are a feminist and it is easy for you to buy into all the claptrap, because it's most likely how you get women's attention to get laid.
Domestic violence is just another ruse to malign males and it IS NOT SOMETHING that just affects females. Domestic violence makes up a very small percentage of violent crime overall and women can be extremely ferocious and vile. What socio-economic groups are these domestic violence issues predominantly in anyway? Women will also not empower themselves by blaming males for the choices they make with the men they choose to get with. They can take the onus for that. Tough f<>king sh!t! It is what gets promoted by feminists and the media, to further their useless cause. Males make up the largest number of victims of violence than females world wide over, yet it all has to be about women.
The pay gap is a myth, due to differing choices females make over males and average earnings ARE NOT WAGES. It is illegal to pay someone less just because of gender. This just does not happen. Men put in more hours and do more dangerous jobs.
You cannot play the misogyny card either to make an argument. What the frick are you trying to do, tell others how they should think and feel about something or someone? If men have issues with females being females, then that is just the way it is, just as females have issues with males being males. They do not get a free pass just because of what you are perceiving as a "special" gender. Play the victim, be the victim. Discrimination happens in all walks of life and it is not ALL ABOUT women. Females are the worst haters regarding their own gender and not to mention the misandry that gets projected by many. If you can't empower yourself, because you want to give it away to women, be my guest, but at the end of the day, most men are their own worst enemies when it comes to women and all because of SEX. How freakin' base!
There will NEVER be absolute equality, so keep dreamin' that delusion sunshine. Hope I haven't bored you like you did me, with your pretentious and asinine drivel.
Oh, I should have known enough to write anything to someone who finds peer reviewed articles as pretentious and posts youtube videos of no relevence. Sure keep up with your hilarious postings. But do remember that nobody here takes you seriously. The dude with almighty man power!
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 20, 2018 11:14:56 GMT
Oh, I should have known enough to write anything to someone who finds peer reviewed articles as pretentious and posts youtube videos of no relevence. Sure keep up with your hilarious postings. But do remember that nobody here takes you seriously. The dude with almighty man power! Peer reviewed articles from pompous and pretentious academic nitwits are not the voice of reason. All many do, is go around patting each other on the back and give out overly intellectualized information with contrived and complex rhetoric, as though they get it and feel super impressed with their high IQ's. Since you don't really get it, it's not surprising that you are buying into it. There will be some truths, but it doesn't pinpoint the 'entire' and 'absolute' truth.
Not being able to understand articles doesn't make them 'pompous' and 'pretentious'. Peer revived articles are written by experts in a field (not by random message board windbag) and there are systems of checks that make them more reliable than some random person's opinion. Writers of peer reviewed articles don't necessarily claim their articles to be absolute truth. Random youtube videos have no checks in place. Yeah, it can appeal to people if those youtube videos speak something they like. But no the value of those youtube videos are mainly for those who watch them.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 12:57:04 GMT
What about the human movement? After all, regardless of gender, race or creed, we are all human beings and we don't often know to treat each other fairly or with dignity. Religion being the biggest obstacle to cross. Whilst I don't disagree with this, I do think it's prone to being used in a way that's a bit disingenuous. Yes, everyone should be treated fairly and equally. But what women and ethnic minorities are trying to point out is that it's not everyone that is being treated unfairly, it's them. Or at least, it's disproportionately them. The analogy I've heard is that there's a big bunch of twenty people eating pie. Ten of them are men and ten women. When the pie is dished out, the men all get much bigger pieces than the women do. "Hey, women should get equal amounts of pie" say the women. If the men's response to this was "That's sexist. You should be saying that everyone should get equal amounts of pie". Well yeah, the men aren't wrong. But the men are also missing the point that it's the women who have the problem here, and not the men. And it's very easy for "you're being sexist, everyone should be equal" to be used to just ignore the point the women are making - either as a deliberate tactic or as a side effect of making what you genuinely think is a good argument. And there it is. Note that goz never, ever says "all males do bad things to women". Rather, she points out that women are being abused - and your response is to say "well you're implying that all men are abusers and not all men abuse women".
That may be true - but, intentionally or otherwise, it serves to deflect the argument away from the point goz is making and provide you with an excuse to ignore her. It's a way to avoid the issue, disguised as an attempt to be more fair.
In some senses gays and women have equality - arguably, equality under the law for instance. But that doesn't necessarily equate to equality overall. There's still plenty of sexism in the world, and homophobia too.
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