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Post by Aj_June on Jul 20, 2018 21:35:42 GMT
Not being able to understand articles doesn't make them 'pompous' and 'pretentious'. Peer revived articles are written by experts in a field (not by random message board windbag) and there are systems of checks that make them more reliable than some random person's opinion. Writers of peer reviewed articles don't necessarily claim their articles to be absolute truth. Random youtube videos have no checks in place. Yeah, it can appeal to people if those youtube videos speak something they like. But no the value of those youtube videos are mainly for those who watch them. Oh, the system check,  something that you obviously place great stead in, being one of the sheep that you are. Be a black one instead. It can be more interesting and enlightening. I do not have to believe that scholars and writers of peer reviewed articles are pompous and that trusting in them makes people sheeps. Of course, you have all the right to believe that others are sheep given your desire to seek thrills in youtube videos that happen to be made by braggarts and fools. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 21, 2018 3:13:49 GMT
What about the human movement? After all, regardless of gender, race or creed, we are all human beings and we don't often know to treat each other fairly or with dignity. Religion being the biggest obstacle to cross. Whilst I don't disagree with this, I do think it's prone to being used in a way that's a bit disingenuous. Yes, everyone should be treated fairly and equally. But what women and ethnic minorities are trying to point out is that it's not everyone that is being treated unfairly, it's them. Or at least, it's disproportionately them. The analogy I've heard is that there's a big bunch of twenty people eating pie. Ten of them are men and ten women. When the pie is dished out, the men all get much bigger pieces than the women do. "Hey, women should get equal amounts of pie" say the women. If the men's response to this was "That's sexist. You should be saying that everyone should get equal amounts of pie". Well yeah, the men aren't wrong. But the men are also missing the point that it's the women who have the problem here, and not the men. And it's very easy for "you're being sexist, everyone should be equal" to be used to just ignore the point the women are making - either as a deliberate tactic or as a side effect of making what you genuinely think is a good argument. And there it is. Note that goz never, ever says "all males do bad things to women". Rather, she points out that women are being abused - and your response is to say "well you're implying that all men are abusers and not all men abuse women".
That may be true - but, intentionally or otherwise, it serves to deflect the argument away from the point goz is making and provide you with an excuse to ignore her. It's a way to avoid the issue, disguised as an attempt to be more fair.
In some senses gays and women have equality - arguably, equality under the law for instance. But that doesn't necessarily equate to equality overall. There's still plenty of sexism in the world, and homophobia too. Good post. Some people who are against feminism are often on witch hunt. For example, I have never recognised myself as a feminist but Toasted Cheese claimed that I am apparently a feminist and a brainwashed one. It reminds me of Ada calling me homosexual even though I am not a homosexual. Not being a feminist doesn't stop me from recognising that there are issues of discrimination against women in our society and misogyny exists in different parts of the world. Next the people who exaggerate might charge me as being men hater. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 21, 2018 11:57:23 GMT
I do not have to believe that scholars and writers of peer reviewed articles are pompous and that trusting in them makes people sheeps. Of course, you have all the right to believe that others are sheep given your desire to seek thrills in youtube videos that happen to be made by braggarts and fools. So then any of us on here are braggarts and fools, because our points haven't been endorsed by self-important, pompous ass clowns who know better. I don't believe taking medicines prescribed by doctors make me anyone a fool. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 22, 2018 2:40:36 GMT
I don't believe taking medicines prescribed by doctors make me anyone a fool. It would depend on the doctor and it would also depend on the topic being discussed. It would depend on the selection of doctor. Go to a dentist for teeth and cardiologist for heart. Yeah, relying on a quack is an altogether different matter. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2018 8:25:34 GMT
There are already organizational movements dedicated to addressing disadvantages that are alleged to be experienced by men only. Everyone has a part to play. So how is it about equality again if you're only focusing on the issues of one gender? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2018 8:30:21 GMT
Yes but that goes back to my point that feminism focuses on one gender, which as a result couldn't achieve equality but only progress in the areas where women are disadvantaged. Both men and women can experience privileges of their gender. Yes, and both genders face disadvantages too, as well as privileges. Feminism has now become a biased and slanted take on women's rights in the West, when they have exactly the same privilege as males, perhaps even more in some cases. I agree with no complaints. I appreciate the privileges I have just for being a woman 😂 |
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Post by faustus5 on Jul 27, 2018 10:18:58 GMT
There are already organizational movements dedicated to addressing disadvantages that are alleged to be experienced by men only. Everyone has a part to play. So how is it about equality again if you're only focusing on the issues of one gender? If this question keeps having to be asked by you, these kinds of issues are way over your head and you'd best let the adults in the room worry about it and move on to issues you can grasp. |
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Post by faustus5 on Jul 27, 2018 16:47:20 GMT
So in other words, you don't know, or don't have an answer that is satisfactory, considering your own bias slanted towards feminism for whatever dubious agenda you have. There is no answer you idiots will ever find acceptable since rational thought is off the table when it comes to this issue. So stick to being a sexist piece of human garbage, which is all you have the capacity to be, and those of us on the right side of history will wave goodbye. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 28, 2018 8:44:50 GMT
There is no answer you idiots will ever find acceptable since rational thought is off the table when it comes to this issue. So stick to being a sexist piece of human garbage, which is all you have the capacity to be, and those of us on the right side of history will wave goodbye.
So not identifying as a feminist makes one sexist.  What about all those females who don't care to identify as a feminist—and there are more of them that wont—does that make them sexist pieces of human garbage too? Yes, I wonder where your rational thought has disappeared to, you toffee nosed twit.
That's not why he called you a sexist. Over the years on this board the person called @graham or I have never identified ourselves as feminists but we have not been called sexist. Your other posts such as denial that there is misogyny in western society and that those males who identify themselves as feminists are but disgrace to their gender made him call you a sexist. I suggest that you take a break. Re-examine this issue and try to formulate your opinion from scratch. It's totally possible for even the main stream feminists to hold illogical opinions on some issues. But what the OP in this thread has done is that he has laid misleading charges on feminists and exaggerated the points that he wanted to raise. If anyone brings misleading charges on another group then he or she has lost the debate to begin with. No one is required to be a feminist for not being a sexist. One can address social issues without being part of a group. But it is definitely wrong to make misleading claims against any group as the OP has done in the first post of this thread. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 9:36:15 GMT
I agree with no complaints. I appreciate the privileges I have just for being a woman 😂 There are more freedoms males may be given, just by nature of their biology, but that is just a privilege of being born into the male sex. Whatever equality means for some, is never going to change our physiology and since when was nature indiscriminatory, unbiased and equal? I'd say for many, they are confusing equality with entitlements. I still think women are more advantaged now than men despite biology. Now women pretty much have the same rights as men, but the traditional gender stereotypes still exist where the responsibilities of men are still expected such as being able to financially provide for both themselves and their families.. The expectations society puts on men I think disadvantages them compared to women. A woman however can easily find a man to support and provide for her without her having to work for any of it. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 28, 2018 9:46:13 GMT
That's not why he called you a sexist. Over the years on this board the person called @graham or I have never identified ourselves as feminists but we have not been called sexist. Your other posts such as denial that there is misogyny in western society and that those males who identify themselves as feminists are but disgrace to their gender made him call you a sexist. I suggest that you take a break. Re-examine this issue and try to formulate your opinion from scratch. It's totally possible for even the main stream feminists to hold illogical opinions on some issues. But what the OP in this thread has done is that he has laid misleading charges on feminists and exaggerated the points that he wanted to raise. If anyone brings misleading charges on another group then he or she has lost the debate to begin with. No one is required to be a feminist for not being a sexist. One can address social issues without being part of a group. But it is definitely wrong to make misleading claims against any group as the OP has done in the first post of this thread. He claimed to me if if one isn't a feminist there is just something wrong with my ethical character and am basically in the same boat as racists and homophobes and utterly worthless. What kind of pretentious, self-centered, self-important, manipulating arrogant pompous twat, feels that others he doesn't even know,—or anyone for that matter—should live by his own abstract moral code and perception of things? I am homo, but I must be a homophobe.  What a ponce he is! I guess then, since you don't identify as a feminist, that must make you utterly worthless and unethical too. He's not worth defending.
I have read that post and while I do not particularly agree with that one post of his , he has made mostly rational posts starting with the first one. Once again, while his one post was wrong, I think it was posted more as a response to your claims that there is no misogyny in western society of today.
The claims are misleading. To start with the claim "that feminists claim that all men are rapists". Fautus5 has made a pretty convincing refutations of those claims. The OP would have made some sense if said that there are some feminists who advocate 'same pay' for males and females sports people. But what he actually did was create points that mainstream feminists do not hold. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 28, 2018 10:07:17 GMT
I have read that post and while I do not particularly agree with that one post of his , he has made mostly rational posts starting with the first one. Once again, while his one post was wrong, I think it was posted more as a response to your claims that there is no misogyny in western society of today.
The claims are misleading. To start with the claim "that feminists claim that all men are rapists". Fautus5 has made a pretty convincing refutations of those claims. The OP would have made some sense if said that there are some feminists who advocate same pay for males and females sports people. But we actually did was create points that mainstream feminists do not hold. Misogyny is just a term\label\tag, to tell others how they should think and feel about something\someone. These WRA's—also know as 'feminists'—are allowed to have their own third wave movement, but for men to have theirs, it's suddenly sexist, chauvinistic and misogynistic. If that is the case, then feminists are sexist, chauvinist sows and misandrists regarding males. What is the frikin' difference? What happens and affects women, happens to men as well.
Well in that case we have different meanings for the term and different perception regarding what feminists say. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 28, 2018 10:11:24 GMT
Well in that case we have different meanings for the terms. And what is meaning? Who's is it, where is it? Ultimately, there is no meaning. It is what it is, the rest is all ego. One can say from your last post that you are being pompous now and unnecessarily intellectualising things. Interestingly you accused writers of peer articles as being pompous. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 28, 2018 10:34:42 GMT
One can say from your last post that you are being pompous now and unnecessarily intellectualising things. Interestingly you accused writers of peer articles as being pompous. Oh the irony! If there is no meaning, how can it be intellectualizing something that doesn't exist? If you smear the discussion with philosophical bent then of course you over intellectualise things.
Also one has to differentiate between facts and opinions. Obviously words have meaning.
What I believe the term misogyny means - Dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.
What you believe the term misogyny represents - Misogyny is just a term\label\tag, to tell others how they should think and feel about something\someone.
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 29, 2018 6:26:27 GMT
If you smear the discussion with philosophical bent then of course you over intellectualise things.
Also one has to differentiate between facts and opinions. Obviously words have meaning.
What I believe the term misogyny means - Dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.
What you believe the term misogyny represents - Misogyny is just a term\label\tag, to tell others how they should think and feel about something\someone.
It depends on the intellect then doesn't it. Is it whole and just what it is, or is it just a compartmentalized notion of what you only want to believe something is? Any word\label\tag only has meaning to the observer and the mind concept behind what that meaning is. Is your meaning and perception mine? You have even commented that we have a different take. Whatever you perceive something as, is only your own ego thought process, same as with mine. If you perceive somebody having a dislike, contempt or ingrained prejudice against something, then ultimately, that is a mirror of you. It is your own personal judgment not mine.
Well as I said facts and opinions are two different things. It's not always a case of perceiving things. The dislike, contempt and prejudice against women may and do often times surface themselves in facts. When I read that more violence has been done on women in Spain last year then it is not a case of my perceiving things. Data such as a man killing his lover is not much prone to manipulation even if data of a man beating his lover can be manipulated to a certain extent. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 29, 2018 6:39:11 GMT
Well as I said facts and opinions are two different things. It's not always a case of perceiving things. The dislike, contempt and prejudice against women may and do often times surface themselves in facts. When I read that more violence has been done on women in Spain last year then it is not a case of my perceiving things. Data such as a man killing his lover is not much prone to manipulation even if data of a man beating his lover can be manipulated to a certain extent. Everything is perceived. It is your own personal take and projection on it. Some may side and agree with you, some may not, but it is still all projection. Are the facts pertaining to the complete whole? Where and whose are these facts?
So say prejudice exists, but it may not be your prejudice, why is it of concern to you, if it does not affect you directly or how you choose to live your own life, by your own values and ethics?
It concerns me because being fair to my fellow human beings is part of my ethics. I wouldn't want people to be prejudiced against me or harm me because of my gender. And so would I apply the simple concept to others.
Facts are facts. Whether I perceive or not, the actual incidences of misogyny are real. If a man kills his lover then the murder is real.
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 29, 2018 7:25:19 GMT
It concerns me because being fair to my fellow human beings is part of my ethics. I wouldn't want people to be prejudiced against me or harm me because of my gender. And so would I apply the simple concept to others.
Facts are facts. Whether I perceive or not, the actual incidences of misogyny are real. If a man kills his lover then the murder is real.
Well be fair the as part of your ethics, just don't expect of others to be fair back. And if someone is killed, be it male or female— boy, you do have a biased slant, when males are the victims of violent crimes over females and this is FACT—why is it real for you, if you are not the victim or perpetrator? No, I have not got a biased view. I have never denied that males may also face discrimination. I am not even going to berate any man or woman for trying to sort out the issues that men face. Just that I find that these are separate issues and women are in more desperate situation owing to influence of religion and male domination of past. But nowhere I am stopping you to do things to end discrimination that men face. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 29, 2018 7:36:48 GMT
No, I have not got a biased view. I have never denied that males may also face discrimination. I am not even going to berate any man or woman for trying to sort out the issues that men face. Just that I find that these are separate issues and women are in more desperate situation owing to influence of religion and male domination of past. But nowhere I am stopping you to do things to end discrimination that men face.
Where in the west are 'ordinary'— and I use this term loosely—women facing this? This is a cultural and religious issue, that stems from Islam predominantly. Islamic women in the west will face these obstacles, so you are fighting against their religion then and not for the majority of emancipated Western women? Women in the west face issues too. Not at the same level as women in the poorer countries do. And if I gave you figure all you would do is claim that these are made propaganda and distorted facts.
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 29, 2018 7:47:06 GMT
Women in the west face issues too. Not at the same level as women in the poorer countries do. And if I gave you figure all you would do is claim that these are made propaganda and distorted facts.
Yeah! Propaganda, like feminism and how women are so oppressed in the west. Yes, they are distorted. You rely too much on stats, instead of common sense.
The same line of arguments are also given by conspiracy theorists. Just saying.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 1:44:43 GMT
I still think women are more advantaged now than men despite biology. Now women pretty much have the same rights as men, but the traditional gender stereotypes still exist where the responsibilities of men are still expected such as being able to financially provide for both themselves and their families.. The expectations society puts on men I think disadvantages them compared to women. A woman however can easily find a man to support and provide for her without her having to work for any of it. Exactly! Males still face stigma and ridicule from other males— and females—for not being the gender stereotype or social construct of what they think a male should be. Females get more allowances made for them, because of being perceived as the fairer gender. If 'authentic' equality was to happen in society, those privileges must be dropped. It is equality on selective terms and so therefore is not and never will be equality. I find equality pretty much impossible to accomplish considering the fact men and women aren't the same as well as these existing stereotypes. But I honestly believe stereotypes still exist for a reason, and that being because generally speaking there is a lot of truth to them. |
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What a ponce he is! I guess then, since you don't identify as a feminist, that must make you utterly worthless and unethical too. 