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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2018 16:42:10 GMT
Jesus said he came to fulfill the prophet's words about a coming Messiah. He's the son of God.
However, is there anyone who has read the Torah or Old Testament and then read the New Testament and thought, "is this the same God?"
I'm not trying to be blasphemous or anything, this is just a discussion. However, when I read about the way God destroys Sodom in the Old Testament, kills off entire tribes of people, and so on.
Then you read about Jesus in the New Testament, "Love Everyone. Pray for your enemies. If you only love those who love you, what reward is there in that?" And when Peter cut off the ear of a solider, Jesus picks up the ear of the man and heals it. Then tells Peter, "If you live by the sword, you die by the sword."
Now, I know that the belief is God had to be a certain way at the beginning of mankind. Once Jesus came along, it was to change everything. So his message was God's new covenant with mankind.
However, is there, or are there people out there who does or knows of someone who only believes in the New Testament and doesn't even read or believe the Old Testament?
I know Jewish people only believe the Old Testament. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 2, 2018 17:16:53 GMT
It is the same God.
In fact, it is impossible to believe the NT and not the OT and there is no difference in the demeanor or personality of God in either. No one has bothered to prove me wrong on that.
Most of the NT is built off the history, prophecy, & instruction of the OT and any "bad" thing that happens will happen at a greater multiple according to the NT & Jesus.
People are just not reading the whole of either or else this would be obvious.
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Post by captainbryce on Aug 2, 2018 17:53:47 GMT
It is the same God. In fact, it is impossible to believe the NT and not the OT and there is no difference in the demeanor or personality of God in either. No one has bothered to prove me wrong on that. And of course cognitive dissonance forces any Christian to believe this, despite the wealth of evidence to the contrary (including that which has been presented in the opening post).  The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully....who “loves” you! |
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Post by Isapop on Aug 2, 2018 17:54:02 GMT
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Aug 2, 2018 18:03:35 GMT
I know someone here who thinks it's possible. She was giving me one of her condescending lectures about how beautiful life is, and I asked her if she had ever heard of an event commonly known as the Fall of Man. And she replied that it was for the Jews, and that she never reads the Old Testament because to her it all began with Jesus. Fortunately neither I nor anyone else is going to pay the price for her foolish errors. She is going to pay for them.
And there was a good reason why Sodom was destroyed and entire tribes were killed off. It wasn't done just for kicks. A New Testament means a New Covenant, which is in effect now, replacing the Old Covenant made with Abraham, but the Old Testament is very still necessary to understand how the New Testament came to be.
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Post by thefleetsin on Aug 2, 2018 18:04:13 GMT
who is casting who into a lake of fire?
if jesus and is father are one, then they both come across as a tad bit testy. and just a wee bit upset about what they originally molded from dirt.
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Eλευθερί
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Post by Eλευθερί on Aug 2, 2018 18:41:59 GMT
Jesus said he came to fulfill the prophet's words about a coming Messiah. He's the son of God.
However, is there anyone who has read the Torah or Old Testament and then read the New Testament and thought, "is this the same God?" I guess you've missed the previous discussions here on this? |
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Post by general313 on Aug 2, 2018 19:29:20 GMT
I wonder if anyone has watched The Empire Strikes Back without having watched A New Hope.
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Eλευθερί
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Post by Eλευθερί on Aug 3, 2018 0:07:50 GMT
I wonder if anyone has watched The Empire Strikes Back without having watched A New Hope. I did. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 3, 2018 0:42:56 GMT
I wonder if anyone has watched The Empire Strikes Back without having watched A New Hope. I did. That explains some things.  |
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Post by drystyx on Aug 3, 2018 1:59:27 GMT
What you say is obviously correct, and that's why fundamentalism fails.
However, we do see a puzzle emerge, which is very obvious from the beginning.
Genesis begins with the good God in charge, but we get the fall of man by eating the fruit of knowledge.
However, the Bible is "confusion", so the tree was not "knowledge", but "opposite of knowledge", or "confusion". It's like the riddle of the two prison guards, one who always tells the truth, and one who always lies, and you can only ask one guard one question to find which of two doors is the escape door, and which is the door to a Hell that sucks you in. You don't know which door is which, or which guard is which, and you may only ask one guard one question.
The answer to that riddle, for those unfamiliar with it, is to ask either guard "If I ask the other guard which door leads to escape, which door will he tell me it is?" One guard always tells the truth, no matter what, and he will show you the door of doom. Likewise, the other guard, who can only lie no matter what, will show you the door of doom.
So, you pick the other door.
The Bible is obviously full of contradictions, particularly in the case of God. In the OT the character called God will punish some people for what others do. This alleged God even kills an honest prophet because he is fooled by a lying prophet, instead of killing the lying prophet. Instead of punishing the lying prophet, he sends a lion to kill the innocent one.
The character who claims to be God after Adam and Eve are confused, is a character that can't be the good God by definition. A good God doesn't punish the innocent person who is fooled by a scam. Granted, that's what human judges do, but not a true good God of the good Holy Ghost.
So, the prince of this world is evil, and the good God works from outside the laws set down by the Devil and/or devils. The devils rigged the game and stacked the deck, which makes the entrance of the good God via Jesus a miracle to save us from the rules of Satan.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2018 8:42:36 GMT
Nobody believes in the bible i mean they believe in parts of it and than they ignore the parts they don`t like.
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Post by permutojoe on Aug 3, 2018 11:04:42 GMT
Yes it's very possible, plus it fits with the general pattern of me going out and killing 100 people in a kung fu murder spree, then deciding I'm going to have a "new covenant", accept Jesus, and all is forgiven 2 minutes later.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 3, 2018 11:41:20 GMT
Nobody believes in the bible i mean they believe in parts of it and than they ignore the parts they don`t like. Of course this is untrue. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 3, 2018 11:54:44 GMT
You can believe anything if you are dumb enough. Nobody believes in the bible i mean they believe in parts of it and than they ignore the parts they don`t like. More precisely the Bible is used selectively to justify your own beliefs that aren't actually yours, but indoctrinated into you as a child. Indoctrination as you describe it is impossible. Children grow up to make choices of their own and if they are still with the religion it is because they like it or the bad is outweighed by the good. Technically people can pick and choose scripture which is what some do all the time. This thread is a perfect example of it. However, that has nothing to do with the Bible itself. It is the same structure in the OT and NT and al we are reading is a continuation of a theme started in Genesis. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2018 12:18:18 GMT
You can believe anything if you are dumb enough. Nobody believes in the bible i mean they believe in parts of it and than they ignore the parts they don`t like. More precisely the Bible is used selectively to justify your own beliefs that aren't actually yours, but indoctrinated into you as a child. True |
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Post by Vegas on Aug 3, 2018 12:18:23 GMT
I have no problem seeing it as one continuous story.... I do question the motives of those who say that they can't.  |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 3, 2018 12:44:15 GMT
Indoctrination as you describe it is impossible. Children grow up to make choices of their own and if they are still with the religion it is because they like it or the bad is outweighed by the good. Technically people can pick and choose scripture which is what some do all the time. This thread is a perfect example of it. However, that has nothing to do with the Bible itself. It is the same structure in the OT and NT and al we are reading is a continuation of a theme started in Genesis. People tend to remain in the religion of their parents with a strong correlation. It's not like a lot of muslims converted to Christianity and vice versa. Some do, but not many. If anything, people abandon religion altogether and become atheists (when they realize what BS religions are). If people chose freely their religion, we would have all religious spread evenly in the World: In all countries (with freedom of religion of course) we would have the same kind of mixture of different religions and atheism, but that's not the case. There isn't that many Hindus in Norway, but there's tons of Hindus in India. Why? Because religion is a cultural thing. It is indoctrinated into you and it takes effort to free yourself from it's grip. The flaw is people pretend that to stay within Christianity is to stay in the religion of their parents which is not an accurate statement. As people grow up the figure out what's best for them or what's most accurate to them. That is not the same thing as indoctrination as if they are tied at the hip with their parents church. I haven't been to my parents' church since I was a teenager. As you say, tons of kids become non-religious and that requires no special mental strength. They just stop going. Happens all the time. Also, people have a tendency to convert to religions that they both like and are invented to. People do not en masse go through the work of going to a religion that doesn't appear to want them which is in distinct contrast to most Christian denominations since promotion is a core component of the doctrine. About the only thing easier to join is atheism. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2018 17:18:07 GMT
If Christians truly wanted to be taken serious they'd ditch the old book.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2018 17:19:44 GMT
Nobody believes in the bible i mean they believe in parts of it and than they ignore the parts they don`t like. Of course this is untrue. There are not parts you believe and parts you don't believe? There are not parts you yourself decide are allegorical and other parts you yourself decide are literal? |
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