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Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 2, 2018 20:29:18 GMT
I'll admit a Christian theocracy probably isn't as bad as a Muslim one, but I don't think comparing a small, soverign state populated by a bunch of rich, powerful elites to a country full of crushing poverty and lackluster education (particularly ones that get bombed on a regular basis) is a very fair comparison. Crushing poverty and lackluster education or not you will still see beheadings, public lashings, executing homosexuals and apostates, FGM, punishing female rape victims for failing to produce 4 male witnesses, owning sex slaves, charging non-Muslims the Jizya tax and so on in any Islamic country ruled by sharia simply because this is what the religion teaches and they take that shit quite seriously over there. You will not see any of the above in any Christian theocracy because that is not what Christianity teaches. "Crushing poverty and lackluster education or not you will still see beheadings"
There is a high correlation between education and religiousity, the more eduated someone is, the less likely they are to be a religious extremist.
"You will not see any of the above in any Christian theocracy because that is not what Christianity teaches."
Actually the Bible does teach several of those things, modern Christians simply choose to ignore them, which is why you don't really see things like the Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, or Salem Witch trials anymore.
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Post by Cody™ on Sept 2, 2018 20:32:47 GMT
Crushing poverty and lackluster education or not you will still see beheadings, public lashings, executing homosexuals and apostates, FGM, punishing female rape victims for failing to produce 4 male witnesses, owning sex slaves, charging non-Muslims the Jizya tax and so on in any Islamic country ruled by sharia simply because this is what the religion teaches and they take that shit quite seriously over there. You will not see any of the above in any Christian theocracy because that is not what Christianity teaches. "You will not see any of the above in any Christian theocracy because that is not what Christianity teaches."
Actually the Bible does teach several of those things, modern Christians simply choose to ignore them, which is why you don't really see things like the Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, or Salem Witch trials anymore.
I said Christianity does not teach these things. Christians are to follow the teachings of Christ and the NT. |
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Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 2, 2018 20:38:14 GMT
"You will not see any of the above in any Christian theocracy because that is not what Christianity teaches."
Actually the Bible does teach several of those things, modern Christians simply choose to ignore them, which is why you don't really see things like the Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, or Salem Witch trials anymore.
I said Christianity does not teach these things. Christians are to follow the teachings of Christ and the NT. 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
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Post by Cody™ on Sept 2, 2018 20:39:12 GMT
lowtacks86Not sure how this refutes my statement that a country governed by strict sharia law will always have those abhorrent practices.
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Post by Cody™ on Sept 2, 2018 20:41:31 GMT
I said Christianity does not teach these things. Christians are to follow the teachings of Christ and the NT. 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
 Yeah you’ve played this little game with me before. I don’t think you understand exactly what you’re quoting. |
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Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 2, 2018 20:41:55 GMT
lowtacks86 Not sure how this refutes my statement that a country governed by strict sharia law will always have those abhorrent practices. Because if a country is full of educated people that reject religion, they're far less likely to support Islamic leaders/laws to begin with. That seems pretty self explanatory |
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Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 2, 2018 20:42:18 GMT
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
Yeah you’ve played this little game with me before. I don’t think you understand exactly what you’re quoting. So no real counterargument |
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Post by Cody™ on Sept 2, 2018 20:48:23 GMT
lowtacks86 Not sure how this refutes my statement that a country governed by strict sharia law will always have those abhorrent practices. Because if a country is full of educated people that reject religion, they're far less likely to support Islamic leaders/laws to begin with. That seems pretty self explanatory They have no choice but to support Islamic laws. They have to obey the law of the land regardless. There’s a reason Islam hasn’t gone through a proper reformation in 1400 years. And it has nothing to do with a lack of education. |
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Post by Cody™ on Sept 2, 2018 20:50:19 GMT
Yeah you’ve played this little game with me before. I don’t think you understand exactly what you’re quoting. So no real counterargument First I’d like you to give your interpretation of that passage based on the historical context. |
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Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 2, 2018 21:02:56 GMT
Because if a country is full of educated people that reject religion, they're far less likely to support Islamic leaders/laws to begin with. That seems pretty self explanatory They have no choice but to support Islamic laws. They have to obey the law of the land regardless. There’s a reason Islam hasn’t gone through a proper reformation in 1400 years. And it has nothing to do with a lack of education. Then how do you explain Turkey? The majority religion their is Islam, but they're actually doing better than the rest of the Middle East (they don't have Sharia Law, they're officially a secular nation) because they have a better education system (the literacy rate is higher than the rest of the Middle East) .Though Erdogan is trying to ruin that. |
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Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 2, 2018 21:06:25 GMT
So no real counterargument First I’d like you to give your interpretation of that passage based on the historical context. You already know what my interpretation is, he's refering to Mosaic Law. What else would he be talking about? |
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Post by Cody™ on Sept 2, 2018 21:15:50 GMT
They have no choice but to support Islamic laws. They have to obey the law of the land regardless. There’s a reason Islam hasn’t gone through a proper reformation in 1400 years. And it has nothing to do with a lack of education. The how do you explain Turkey? The majority religion their is Islam, but they're actually doing better than the rest of the Middle East (they don't have Sharia Law) because they have a better education system (though Erdogan is trying to ruin that) Turkey’s legal system has never relied exclusively on sharia law, even during the ottoman days. Turkey has a terrible human right record btw. |
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Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 2, 2018 21:27:51 GMT
The how do you explain Turkey? The majority religion their is Islam, but they're actually doing better than the rest of the Middle East (they don't have Sharia Law) because they have a better education system (though Erdogan is trying to ruin that) Turkey’s legal system has never relied exclusively on sharia law, even during the ottoman days. Turkey has a terrible human right record btw. "Turkey’s legal system has never relied exclusively on sharia law, even during the ottoman days."
Not sure what that matters, doesn't really refute what I actually said.
"Turkey has a terrible human right record btw."
I didn't say it was perfect, I'm sure religious regressiveness is still there (Erdogan certainly isn't helping), but still doing better than the rest of the Middle East. Where would you rather live, Turkey or Iran?
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Post by Cody™ on Sept 2, 2018 21:49:11 GMT
Turkey’s legal system has never relied exclusively on sharia law, even during the ottoman days. Turkey has a terrible human right record btw. "Turkey’s legal system has never relied exclusively on sharia law, even during the ottoman days."
Not sure what that matters, doesn't really refute what I actually said.
"Turkey has a terrible human right record btw."
I didn't say it was perfect, I'm sure religious regressiveness is still there (Erdogan certainly isn't helping), but still doing better than the rest of the Middle East. Where would you rather live, Turkey or Iran?
It shows that eduction is not the primary reason that Turkey is not governed by sharia today. As educated as the people may be it’s still a fairly religious and conservative Muslim country. And yeah I’d much rather live in Turkey but more because the country as a whole is nicer, the women are hotter and the kebabs are tastier. |
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Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 2, 2018 21:55:28 GMT
"Turkey’s legal system has never relied exclusively on sharia law, even during the ottoman days."
Not sure what that matters, doesn't really refute what I actually said.
"Turkey has a terrible human right record btw."
I didn't say it was perfect, I'm sure religious regressiveness is still there (Erdogan certainly isn't helping), but still doing better than the rest of the Middle East. Where would you rather live, Turkey or Iran?
It shows that eduction is not the primary reason that Turkey is not governed by sharia today. As educated as the people may be it’s still a fairly religious and conservative Muslim country. And yeah I’d much rather live in Turkey but more because the country as a whole is nicer, the women are hotter and the kebabs are tastier. "As educated as the people may be it’s still a fairly religious and conservative Muslim country. "
But it is still less religious than the rest of the Middle East, which is the point I was trying to make. Do you think it's a coincidence the literacy rate their is higher than the rest of the Middle East?
"And yeah I’d much rather live in Turkey but more because the country as a whole is nicer, the women are hotter and the kebabs are tastier. }
Yes because the country doesn't have the same regressive, religious problems Iran has.
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Post by Cody™ on Sept 2, 2018 22:07:39 GMT
lowtacks86 Not higher than Qatar, Bahrain or Kuwait, 3 middle eastern countries which are governed by Sharia law to some degree. And who partake in many of the practices I listed. Yes partly that. And partly because it’s just a more beautiful place to live.
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Post by Cody™ on Sept 2, 2018 22:10:27 GMT
First I’d like you to give your interpretation of that passage based on the historical context. You already know what my interpretation is, he's refering to Mosaic Law. What else would he be talking about? Yes but how do you understand Jesus’ words when he says he didn’t come to “abolish” the law but to “fulfill” it? |
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Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 2, 2018 22:27:01 GMT
"Not higher than Qatar, Bahrain or Kuwait, 3 middle eastern countries which are governed by Sharia law to some degree."
Key term being "to some degree" (I'd have to see what exactly that entails).
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Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 2, 2018 22:31:40 GMT
You already know what my interpretation is, he's refering to Mosaic Law. What else would he be talking about? Yes but how do you understand Jesus’ words when he says he didn’t come to “abolish” the law but to “fulfill” it? I'm assuming he means to make sure the law gets carried out and followed. Not sure how else to interpret it. |
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Post by Cody™ on Sept 2, 2018 22:37:35 GMT
"Not higher than Qatar, Bahrain or Kuwait, 3 middle eastern countries which are governed by Sharia law to some degree." Key term being "to some degree" (I'd have to see what exactly that entails). LOL Bahrain - Article 2 of Bahrain's 2002 Constitution as originally adopted, as well as after February 2012 amendment, declares Islamic Sharia is a chief source of legislation.[71][72] Four tiers of ordinary courts have jurisdiction over cases related to civil, administrative and criminal matters, with Court of Cassation the highest civil court in Bahrain; in all matters, the judges are required to resort to Sharia in case legislation is silent or unclear.[72] Sharia courts handle personal status laws.[73][74] A personal status law was codified in 2009 to regulate personal status matters. It applies only to Sunni Muslims; there is no codified personal status law for Shiites. In a Shari’a court a Muslim woman's testimony is worth half of that of a Muslim man.[75] Jordan - Jordan has Sharia courts and civil courts. Sharia courts have jurisdiction over personal status laws, cases concerning Diya (blood money in cases of crime where both parties are Muslims, or one is and both the Muslim and non-Muslim consent to Sharia court's jurisdiction), and matters pertaining to Islamic Waqfs.[93] The Family Law in force is the Personal Status Law of 1976, which is based on Islamic law .[88] In Sharia courts, the testimony of two women is equal to that of one man.[94] Kuwait - Article 2 of Kuwait's constitution identifies Islamic Sharia as a main source of legislation.[71][97] According to the United Nations, Kuwait's legal system is a mix of British common law, French civil law, Egyptian civil law and Islamic law.[98] The sharia-based personal status law for Sunnis is based on the Maliki fiqh and for Shiites, their own school of Islam regulates personal status.[99][100] Before a family court the testimony of a woman is worth half of that of a man.[99] Kuwait blocks internet content prohibited by Sharia.[101] Qatar - Sharia is the main source of Qatari legislation according to Qatar's Constitution.[130][131] Islamic law is applied to laws pertaining to family law, inheritance, and several criminal acts (including adultery, robbery and murder). In some cases in Sharia-based family courts, a female's testimony is worth half a man's and in some cases a female witness is not accepted at all.[132] Flogging is used in Qatar as a punishment for alcohol consumption or illicit sexual relations.[133] Article 88 of Qatar's criminal code declares the punishment for adultery is 100 lashes.[134] Adultery is punishable by death when a Muslim woman and a non-Muslim man are involved.[134] In 2006, a Filipino woman was sentenced to 100 lashes for adultery.[134] In 2012, six expatriates were sentenced to floggings of either 40 or 100 lashes.[133] More recently in April 2013, a Muslim expatriate was sentenced to 40 lashes for alcohol consumption.[135][136][137] In June 2014, a Muslim expatriate was sentenced to 40 lashes for consuming alcohol and driving under the influence.[138] Judicial corporal punishment is common in Qatar due to the Hanbali interpretation of Islamic law. Article 1 of the Law No. 11 Of 2004 (Penal Code) allows for the application of "Sharia provisions" for the crimes of theft, adultery, defamation, drinking alcohol and apostasy if either the suspect or the victim is a Muslim.[13 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_of_Islamic_law_by_countrySo thats 4 wealthy, relatively war free Middle East counties with higher literacy rates than Turkey yet still backwards, sharia compliant shitholes. So much for your the more educated the less religious Muslim countries are. |
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