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Post by Fox in the Snow on Nov 5, 2018 2:15:49 GMT
Well, what she hated and what she ended up doing, only Monroe could take onus for that.
She has been immortalized as a legend and a goddess. That is the image she projected. If she was manipulated, much of that would have been due to drugs and booze as well. If her head wasn't clear, no sympathy from me.
Monroe was also apparently a pain in the derriere to be around. All those that empathize with her may have second thoughts if they were around her for too long. She allegedly bugged the s<>t out of Tony Curtis on Some Like It Hot set because of her un-professionalism, that apparently she wasn't even invited to the wrap up party. Lemmon got along with her though, or so I have read.
She was a train wreck in her personal life. I love her films, and have read a lot about her. To me her story is the ultimate warning that all that glitters is not gold. Being beautiful, being famous...none of it made her happy. Happy is an internal thing and often choice. I will say that Hollywood has a long history of bullying its stars, and it goes back to before Monroe. I think that should be recognized. Most of the people surrounding her only cared about what they could use her for. That's the double-edged sword of fame. She gets misquoted a lot, and I'm not sure she should be considered a role model beyond her ability to go from foster child to famous actress. She truly had a tragic start, but her choices as an adult were the choices of a deeply troubled woman. Marilyn played the best game with the worst hand of anybody I know.-Edward Wagenknecht, author
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Post by Fox in the Snow on Nov 5, 2018 3:20:50 GMT
Marilyn played the best game with the worst hand of anybody I know.-Edward Wagenknecht, author We would have to know though, worst compared to what and whom? There were many stars from Hollywood past that we would have to delve really deep into, to see their pasts. Even Joan Crawford, the deadly b!tch, had a harsh upbringing and Monroe was blessed with stunning and iconic looks. That is not a bad hand for a start to be dealt with and she was able to use that to her benefit. It is tragic that she endured childhood traumas and abuse, but no more tragic than the next person who isn't famous and experienced similar or worse. It gets elevated all out of proportion, because she became a star.
She did have a very rough start. Her looks were her "ace" I guess and she used what she had to the best of her ability, but yes, it's all relative. Just a quote I've always remembered, so thought I'd share.
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Post by ck100 on Nov 5, 2018 3:27:27 GMT
Iconic.
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Post by dirtypillows on Nov 5, 2018 3:47:40 GMT
I grew up watching her movies. Some people just have different opinions. It’s incredible that it’s difficult for you to wrap your brain around that concept. I don't think Bat doesn't understand the concept of differing opinions. Because it's too easy a concept to misunderstand. She has taken a lot of derision and worse all these years. Maybe he wanted to have another go at sticking up for her and cited her dramatic performance from "The Misfits", where she really did deviate from her usual fare. That, plus maybe a little bit of sarcasm from Bat. Not much more than that.
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Post by dirtypillows on Nov 5, 2018 3:52:35 GMT
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Post by Fox in the Snow on Nov 5, 2018 4:03:34 GMT
THE MISFITS
My favorite of her films
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Post by Fox in the Snow on Nov 5, 2018 4:05:50 GMT
Look what you've created you evil child!
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Post by dirtypillows on Nov 5, 2018 4:08:29 GMT
Look what you've created you evil child! I might as well go get my scalp tattooed with 3 sixes! Life as I know it shall end forever! Though I would still poop my pants if I ever saw Billie Whitelaw coming at me, with her hair up in a bun!
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Post by pennypacker on Nov 5, 2018 4:30:19 GMT
I grew up watching her movies. Some people just have different opinions. It’s incredible that it’s difficult for you to wrap your brain around that concept. I don't think Bat doesn't understand the concept of differing opinions. Because it's too easy a concept to misunderstand. She has taken a lot of derision and worse all these years. Maybe he wanted to have another go at sticking up for her and cited her dramatic performance from "The Misfits", where she really did deviate from her usual fare. That, plus maybe a little bit of sarcasm from Bat. Not much more than that. I agree it is an easy concept, that's why the direction this thread took is amazing. He could have done all of that without the passive aggressive remark. Especially since I don't think I was particularly derisive. If someone is really interested in a discussion or even recommending something to someone, they're better off without the snark. I think this whole thing has been completely blown out of proportion though by basically all of us talking about it. I'm sorry I helped hijack your thread this way, definitely not what I wanted.
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Post by dirtypillows on Nov 5, 2018 4:45:24 GMT
She actually hated that image. She wanted meatier roles, but Hollywood had her type cast. She even started her own production company, something unheard of in that era. Well, what she hated and what she ended up doing, only Monroe could take onus for that.
She has been immortalized as a legend and a goddess. That is the image she projected. If she was manipulated, much of that would have been due to drugs and booze as well. If her head wasn't clear, no sympathy from me.
Monroe was also apparently a pain in the derriere to be around. All those that empathize with her may have second thoughts if they were around her for too long. She allegedly bugged the s<>t out of Tony Curtis on Some Like It Hot set because of her un-professionalism, that apparently she wasn't even invited to the wrap up party. Lemmon got along with her though, or so I have read.
In real life, Toasty, yes, you make a good point. But whenever I see her in her movies or giving interviews, the same wonderful feelings return. And that's largely because I enjoy having people (in real life or at a distance, like MM) who bring out certain feelings in me. I am sure that Marilyn and Liz were both spoiled, but I just love them both, regardless... Maybe it's the cat versus dog thing? You mentioned on another thread that there was something "precious" about dogs (or perhaps the kind of affection that doglovers seem to have, to be more precise) I could never argue with this in a million years because I love my sweet little boy more than anything in the world. And he is very precious to me, and I love picking him up from the floor and just carrying him around. I love SPOILING him. It soothes me. But I can totally appreciate that some people just don't respond to dogs this way, some people prefer cats or rabbits or horses or hamsters or whatever. I had a roommate in college that had a boa constrictor for a pet. And that rated one big "icky-poo" from me, and I stopped right there. None of my business. Some people don't like animals, period. And some people like animals better than people. As long as they're respectful of the other person's way, then not much else matters. I wouldn't be able to argue most of your points above regarding MM. I've read several of her biographies. I know she was difficult, unprofessional, moody. Billy Wilder once said "I have never met anyone as utterly mean as Marilyn Monroe. Nor as utterly fabulous on the screen and that includes Garbo." I could speculate till the cows come home. But at the end of the day my honest response is that I adore Marilyn, and it is just possible for some of the same reasons why others DON'T like her. And I would be hard pressed to give up the nice feelings that she brings out in me, regardless of what anybody said. I've felt this way for too long. Just like the opposite is true. I doubt that I will ever come around to seeing Julia Roberts as being a kind, giving person, with one lonely drop of humility in her. But she certainly has her fans...
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Post by dirtypillows on Nov 5, 2018 4:49:39 GMT
I don't think Bat doesn't understand the concept of differing opinions. Because it's too easy a concept to misunderstand. She has taken a lot of derision and worse all these years. Maybe he wanted to have another go at sticking up for her and cited her dramatic performance from "The Misfits", where she really did deviate from her usual fare. That, plus maybe a little bit of sarcasm from Bat. Not much more than that. I agree it is an easy concept, that's why the direction this thread took is amazing. He could have done all of that without the passive aggressive remark. Especially since I don't think I was particularly derisive. If someone is really interested in a discussion or even recommending something to someone, they're better off without the snark. I think this whole thing has been completely blown out of proportion though by basically all of us talking about it. I'm sorry I helped hijack your thread this way, definitely not what I wanted. I totally agree with you about this. If somebody really wants to get their point across or even wants to influence another person (to whatever end), then the best way to success is decidedly NOT to be snarky! Being snarky is just about the person getting caught up in themselves, and the result is that the other person is going to become defensive. And the rift between the two viewpoints is only going to strengthen.
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Post by dirtypillows on Nov 5, 2018 4:51:44 GMT
THE MISFITS
My favorite of her films I thought it was extremely depressing.
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Post by Fox in the Snow on Nov 5, 2018 5:32:21 GMT
I thought it was extremely depressing. I was pretty dour, but I recall appreciating it. Don't get me wrong, I like her "fun" stuff also ( Gentlemen, Millionaire, Some Like it Hot)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2018 5:51:06 GMT
Marilyn was many things, but if there is one thing that this thread proves, she wasnt and still isn't boring. I love this photo of her.
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Post by anthonyrocks on Nov 5, 2018 5:52:50 GMT
Stunning
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2018 5:53:20 GMT
Marilyn played the best game with the worst hand of anybody I know.-Edward Wagenknecht, author We would have to know though, worst compared to what and whom?
There were many stars from Hollywood past that we would have to delve really deep into, to see their pasts. Even Joan Crawford, the deadly b!tch, had a harsh upbringing and Monroe was blessed with stunning and iconic looks. That is not a bad hand for a start to be dealt with and she was able to use that to her benefit.
It is tragic that she endured childhood traumas and abuse, but no more tragic than the next person who isn't famous and experienced similar or worse. It gets elevated all out of proportion, because she became a star.
Is it really out of proportion? Her tragedy is deeply common and deeply human. I don't think it should be minimized with anyone.
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Post by dirtypillows on Nov 5, 2018 9:45:18 GMT
I might as well go get my scalp tattooed with 3 sixes! Life as I know it shall end forever! Though I would still poop my pants if I ever saw Billie Whitelaw coming at me, with her hair up in a bun! Ida, Minnie and Laura Louise are having a belated Halloween party. I suggested they invite Mrs. Baylock. Minnie has been a big fan of hers since she saw The Omen and wanted a part in it as well. They want some victims to scare, so I suggested for them to lure Ratched and Mommie Dearest. I would want to go to that party, except I'd probably end up hanging out with Laura Louise and Ida, because if Minnie has become smitten with Mrs. Baylock, I wouldn't want to get too close. I could not pretend to not be scared of her and Mrs. Baylock would sense my fear.
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Post by dirtypillows on Nov 5, 2018 9:49:54 GMT
In real life, Toasty, yes, you make a good point. But whenever I see her in her movies or giving interviews, the same wonderful feelings return. And that's largely because I enjoy having people (in real life or at a distance, like MM) who bring out certain feelings in me. I am sure that Marilyn and Liz were both spoiled, but I just love them both, regardless... Maybe it's the cat versus dog thing? You mentioned on another thread that there was something "precious" about dogs (or perhaps the kind of affection that doglovers seem to have, to be more precise) I could never argue with this in a million years because I love my sweet little boy more than anything in the world. And he is very precious to me, and I love picking him up from the floor and just carrying him around. I love SPOILING him. It soothes me. But I can totally appreciate that some people just don't respond to dogs this way, some people prefer cats or rabbits or horses or hamsters or whatever. I had a roommate in college that had a boa constrictor for a pet. And that rated one big "icky-poo" from me, and I stopped right there. None of my business. Some people don't like animals, period. And some people like animals better than people. As long as they're respectful of the other person's way, then not much else matters. I wouldn't be able to argue most of your points above regarding MM. I've read several of her biographies. I know she was difficult, unprofessional, moody. Billy Wilder once said "I have never met anyone as utterly mean as Marilyn Monroe. Nor as utterly fabulous on the screen and that includes Garbo." I could speculate till the cows come home. But at the end of the day my honest response is that I adore Marilyn, and it is just possible for some of the same reasons why others DON'T like her. And I would be hard pressed to give up the nice feelings that she brings out in me, regardless of what anybody said. I've felt this way for too long. Just like the opposite is true. I doubt that I will ever come around to seeing Julia Roberts as being a kind, giving person, with one lonely drop of humility in her. But she certainly has her fans... The magic and essence is in the giving and what Monroe gave to her fans, as Taylor did too.
I don't dislike Monroe by any means and it is tragic that she died at such a young age, which paradoxically also immortalized her, I just think she came across a pretty much the same in most of the movies I have seen her in and that is MM. What is wonderful, is that she charmed and entertained millions of viewers with her persona and that is what counts at the end of the day, regardless of her being put up on a pedestal of idol worship. I just feel this is a dangerous thing to do to anyone. Yes, I know! I have mentioned recently I would kowtow before the one and only true God, Bette Davis. I'm sure though, she would just kick me in the ribs and tell me stop making such a fool out of myself.
That was a nice way to put it. I have lots of stars/people I put on a pedestal. I do a lot of idol worship. I'm not sure why and I haven't given too much thought to it. There can be some intensity in it, I am sure that has a lot to do with it. I love people who are charming. I can say that much for sure.
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Post by wmcclain on Nov 5, 2018 13:05:37 GMT
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Post by ghostintheshell on Nov 5, 2018 13:19:25 GMT
Temptress
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