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Post by wonderburstanger on Nov 5, 2018 16:13:43 GMT
She wasn't fat. She just wasn't a stick, ala Angelina Jolie. If Marilyn had been thin, she would not have been as cute and appealing. Maybe she had a hint of baby fat. She was curvy. Curvy = Fatty
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Post by HumanFundRecipient on Nov 5, 2018 16:57:55 GMT
Tragic
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Post by dirtypillows on Nov 5, 2018 22:49:26 GMT
She wasn't fat. She just wasn't a stick, ala Angelina Jolie. If Marilyn had been thin, she would not have been as cute and appealing. Maybe she had a hint of baby fat. She was curvy. Curvy = Fatty Curvy is a good thing. Is fatty a good thing?
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Post by dirtypillows on Nov 5, 2018 22:56:40 GMT
I don't think Bat doesn't understand the concept of differing opinions. Because it's too easy a concept to misunderstand. She has taken a lot of derision and worse all these years. Maybe he wanted to have another go at sticking up for her and cited her dramatic performance from "The Misfits", where she really did deviate from her usual fare. That, plus maybe a little bit of sarcasm from Bat. Not much more than that. I agree it is an easy concept, that's why the direction this thread took is amazing. He could have done all of that without the passive aggressive remark. Especially since I don't think I was particularly derisive. If someone is really interested in a discussion or even recommending something to someone, they're better off without the snark. I think this whole thing has been completely blown out of proportion though by basically all of us talking about it. I'm sorry I helped hijack your thread this way, definitely not what I wanted.Hey, no problem. Threads get hijacked all the time. Sometimes interesting stuff can come out of a good hijacking. Though hurt feelings on any side are never fun, but Toasted Cheese and Fox in the Snow and myself are turning it around! "Have no fear little one, I am hear to protect thee..."
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Post by dirtypillows on Nov 5, 2018 23:08:13 GMT
Marilyn played the best game with the worst hand of anybody I know.-Edward Wagenknecht, author We would have to know though, worst compared to what and whom?
There were many stars from Hollywood past that we would have to delve really deep into, to see their pasts. Even Joan Crawford, the deadly b!tch, had a harsh upbringing and Monroe was blessed with stunning and iconic looks. That is not a bad hand for a start to be dealt with and she was able to use that to her benefit.
It is tragic that she endured childhood traumas and abuse, but no more tragic than the next person who isn't famous and experienced similar or worse. It gets elevated all out of proportion, because she became a star.
Yes, I think that Crawford's upbringing was probably just about as difficult and sad as Marilyn's. It is so interesting to look at it this way because, as adults, you couldn't get two people who were more different from each other. Marilyn was likely highly undisciplined whereas Crawford (the deadly bitch!) was as disciplined as a machine. And I don't know if Marilyn herself was prone to self-pity, but she does evoke feelings of pity from others, whereas it seems as if Joan would never have allowed herself this kind of comfort. Instead, she went the super stoic route. (Though her heavy drinking may be a sign of self-pity, I don't know.)
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Post by dirtypillows on Nov 5, 2018 23:11:56 GMT
Is it really out of proportion? Her tragedy is deeply common and deeply human. I don't think it should be minimized with anyone. Its not about minimizing it, but putting it into context. Because Monroe was one of the most famous stars that ever lived, whatever traumas she endured and even tragedy—if that is how one wants to see it—it appears to eclipse and take precedence over what others have endured in their lifetime. She gets a sympathy vote and only because of her standing. She had what millions could only dream of. Her charm and vulnerability was also born out of her experiences and she may not have been the person that people saw her for if not for these either. They work in with each other, as they do for everyone else.
Like one of dirtypillows favourite terms, MM perhaps had a bittersweet life, but that might be simplifying it a bit, but by that same token, why make it complex.
Bittersweet...
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Post by dirtypillows on Nov 5, 2018 23:18:10 GMT
In real life, Toasty, yes, you make a good point. But whenever I see her in her movies or giving interviews, the same wonderful feelings return. And that's largely because I enjoy having people (in real life or at a distance, like MM) who bring out certain feelings in me. I am sure that Marilyn and Liz were both spoiled, but I just love them both, regardless... Maybe it's the cat versus dog thing? You mentioned on another thread that there was something "precious" about dogs (or perhaps the kind of affection that doglovers seem to have, to be more precise) I could never argue with this in a million years because I love my sweet little boy more than anything in the world. And he is very precious to me, and I love picking him up from the floor and just carrying him around. I love SPOILING him. It soothes me. But I can totally appreciate that some people just don't respond to dogs this way, some people prefer cats or rabbits or horses or hamsters or whatever. I had a roommate in college that had a boa constrictor for a pet. And that rated one big "icky-poo" from me, and I stopped right there. None of my business. Some people don't like animals, period. And some people like animals better than people. As long as they're respectful of the other person's way, then not much else matters. I wouldn't be able to argue most of your points above regarding MM. I've read several of her biographies. I know she was difficult, unprofessional, moody. Billy Wilder once said "I have never met anyone as utterly mean as Marilyn Monroe. Nor as utterly fabulous on the screen and that includes Garbo." I could speculate till the cows come home. But at the end of the day my honest response is that I adore Marilyn, and it is just possible for some of the same reasons why others DON'T like her. And I would be hard pressed to give up the nice feelings that she brings out in me, regardless of what anybody said. I've felt this way for too long. Just like the opposite is true. I doubt that I will ever come around to seeing Julia Roberts as being a kind, giving person, with one lonely drop of humility in her. But she certainly has her fans... The magic and essence is in the giving and what Monroe gave to her fans, as Taylor did too.
I don't dislike Monroe by any means and it is tragic that she died at such a young age, which paradoxically also immortalized her, I just think she came across a pretty much the same in most of the movies I have seen her in and that is MM. What is wonderful, is that she charmed and entertained millions of viewers with her persona and that is what counts at the end of the day, regardless of her being put up on a pedestal of idol worship. I just feel this is a dangerous thing to do to anyone. Yes, I know! I have mentioned recently I would kowtow before the one and only true God, Bette Davis. I'm sure though, she would just kick me in the ribs and tell me stop making such a fool out of myself.
Bette would have liked you, Toasted Cheese, but I agree she would have most likely had a completely different attitude about star worship than Joan Crawford, who couldn't get enough of it. For Bette, it was all about the work. Of course, she had an ego. You couldn't to where she got without a very strong ego. Though I am sure she very much appreciated her fans, she just wasn't apt to swallow it whole like Crawford.
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Post by dirtypillows on Nov 5, 2018 23:30:19 GMT
I would want to go to that party, except I'd probably end up hanging out with Laura Louise and Ida, because if Minnie has become smitten with Mrs. Baylock, I wouldn't want to get too close. I could not pretend to not be scared of her and Mrs. Baylock would sense my fear. You can sit in the corner with Millie and Pinky drinking just ordinary Liptons Tea. Millie can tell you all about her new obsession with potatoes and how she has trouble getting Pinky to do anything around the house. All she does is sit on the porch with Willie drinking coke and painting her nails.
You can all have a staring match with Mrs. Baylock and see who wins.
Well, I can tell you I would last all of six seconds before I collapsed. I doubt that Millie would have lasted very long, and Minnie would have been tilting her eyeglasses the whole time in that way she does. Laura Louise would have been totally confused by the rules and would have taken to giving a hard squint to to the potted fern in the corner. When it came down to it, it would be a final round between Ida, Mrs. Baylock and Pinky. Ida has fortitude like nobody's business and Mrs. Baylock has Satan on her side, but in the end, I think it would be Pinky's unnatural gaze that got her the blue ribbon. Pinky could go for days without blinking. Millie and Willie were long used to it by now, how Pinky would just practice staring at them for hours on end, until Millie would say something like "Pinky, stop staring at me. You're making me uncomfortable." Then, Pinky would say (very innocently) "Okay..." and just go back to reading her movie magazines. Yes, Millie would have come across a half dozen new ways to prepare potatoes in the cooking section of McCall's. "I'm famous for my Potatoes Lammoreaux!"
What a party! I'm glad I got invited!!!
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Post by wonderburstanger on Nov 6, 2018 0:12:44 GMT
Curvy is a good thing. Is fatty a good thing? Mo' bounce to tha ounce. Yes!
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Post by dirtypillows on Nov 6, 2018 5:24:31 GMT
Well, I can tell you I would last all of six seconds before I collapsed. I doubt that Millie would have lasted very long, and Minnie would have been tilting her eyeglasses the whole time in that way she does. Laura Louise would have been totally confused by the rules and would have taken to giving a hard squint to to the potted fern in the corner. When it came down to it, it would be a final round between Ida, Mrs. Baylock and Pinky. Ida has fortitude like nobody's business and Mrs. Baylock has Satan on her side, but in the end, I think it would be Pinky's unnatural gaze that got her the blue ribbon. Pinky could go for days without blinking. Millie and Willie were long used to it by now, how Pinky would just practice staring at them for hours on end, until Millie would say something like "Pinky, stop staring at me. You're making me uncomfortable." Then, Pinky would say (very innocently) "Okay..." and just go back to reading her movie magazines. Yes, Millie would have come across a half dozen new ways to prepare potatoes in the cooking section of McCall's. "I'm famous for my Potatoes Lammoreaux!"
What a party! I'm glad I got invited!!! Millie pissed Baylock off anyway because the rules are no talking and we know Millie doesn't know what that means.
Minnie would give Baylock a run for her money and actually made her laugh when she tilted her glasses and almost accidently exorcised herself of the devil. Laura Louise poked her tongue out and Baylock cut it down the middle for her so it would look like a fork. Ida, well she was just cast iron and ate a chicken drumstick while she was doing. Ida only gave up when her tummy started rumbling and went to the refrigerator. Pinky didn't even know what Satan was, even when they painted her naked body with blood and the chocolate mouse had no effect on her either. She just patted Baylock's rotti and read Millie's diary for most of the time.
You were helping Millie with her next dinner party and recipes for different ways to make pigs in blanket more appealing and to take your mind off Baylock. Unfortunately I couldn't make it there for you, because I had a dinner date with Davis. She came dressed a BJ Hudson and asked me if I thought she was pretty.
I love your story lines! So many good ones! Pinky doesn't know who Satan is??? Ha! Ida chimes in... "You've never heard of Satan, my child? Well, I know a place where they give good exorcisms! You sure look like you could use one!" And, all this, while not taking either eyeball off Mrs. Baylock and still working on the drumstick, giving an occasional squirt of bbq sauce. After her tummy has rumbled for the fifth time, Ida gives up... "I can't help it!" A couple minutes later, she returns with a big bowl of hot porridge and when Pinky comes over to see what Ida is eating, gets a little nosy and smacks Pinky's hand away. This startles Pinky so much that she goes into a temporary coma. The rotti comes over and starts chewing on Pinky's fingers. Yes, Minnie makes Mrs. Baylock laugh, then Mrs. B says " ....ah, thank you. I've not laughed for over 300 years... Tell me again about this Rosemary person! She sounds like a real lamb!" then an evil grin comes over Mrs. Baylock's face as she looks over at chubby Laura Louise, with blood in her eyes... When Millie joins me in the kitchen, Ida says " I thought she'd never shut up! She's so skinny, there's not enough meat on her to smoke!"
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