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Post by Cody™ on Nov 25, 2018 6:43:53 GMT
I agree. But I also strongly suspect that the victim wasn’t fully aware of the risk factors involved in visiting the island. Neither to himself nor the tribe. He was likely just a young intrigued overly enthusiastic person looking for some adventure. Id say he knew full well the risks. I very much doubt that he was expecting his visit to A) result in his own demise or B) potentially wipeout the entire tribe.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 6:46:28 GMT
Id say he knew full well the risks. I very much doubt that he was expecting his visit to A) result in his own demise or B) potentially wipeout the entire tribe. So what you're now saying is he was in fact a moron🤔
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puvo
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Post by puvo on Nov 25, 2018 7:03:56 GMT
Id say he knew full well the risks. I very much doubt that he was expecting his visit to A) result in his own demise or B) potentially wipeout the entire tribe. So, you think he repeatedly got all the way to this remote island over a three year period, and essentially had to bribe fisherman to take him close to the island (as it is illegal to go there), and he never even read the wikipedia page about the people who live there, and what they do with visitors? Never thought to check why it's illegal to go there? RIDICULOUS Anyone with half a brain knows un-contacted people could be destroyed by new introduced diseases. Considering he is American, and an estimated 90% of native Americans died when the White man showed up, he would have had an idea about this too.... Considering that info is also on the wikipedia page, yeah, He would have known. His brain has just been turned to mush by christianity, and thought jesus would taker care of all that. They shot at him with arrows, and he went back.... He wrote in his journal about how he didnt want to die.... Wrote about how the people might kill him.... And you are trying to say he didnt expect his own demise as a likely outcome??? RIDICULOUS.
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Post by Cody™ on Nov 25, 2018 7:09:16 GMT
I very much doubt that he was expecting his visit to A) result in his own demise or B) potentially wipeout the entire tribe. So, you think he repeatedly got all the way to this remote island over a three year period, and essentially had to bribe fisherman to take him close to the island (as it is illegal to go there), and he never even read the wikipedia page about the people who live there, and what they do with visitors? Never thought to check why it's illegal to go there? RIDICULOUS Anyone with half a brain knows un-contacted people could be destroyed by new introduced diseases. Considering he is American, and an estimated 90% of native Americans died when the White man showed up, he would have had an idea about this too.... Considering that info is also on the wikipedia page, yeah, He would have known. His brain has just been turned to mush by christianity, and thought jesus would taker care of all that. They shot at him with arrows, and he went back.... He wrote in his journal about how he didnt want to die.... Wrote about how the people might kill him.... And you are trying to say he didnt expect his own demise as a likely outcome??? RIDICULOUS. Various articles say he wasn’t a missionary, just a keen explorer. I’m not saying he wasn’t aware of the risk factors. Just that he may have underestimated them.
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puvo
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Post by puvo on Nov 25, 2018 7:16:19 GMT
So, you think he repeatedly got all the way to this remote island over a three year period, and essentially had to bribe fisherman to take him close to the island (as it is illegal to go there), and he never even read the wikipedia page about the people who live there, and what they do with visitors? Never thought to check why it's illegal to go there? RIDICULOUS Anyone with half a brain knows un-contacted people could be destroyed by new introduced diseases. Considering he is American, and an estimated 90% of native Americans died when the White man showed up, he would have had an idea about this too.... Considering that info is also on the wikipedia page, yeah, He would have known. His brain has just been turned to mush by christianity, and thought jesus would taker care of all that. They shot at him with arrows, and he went back.... He wrote in his journal about how he didnt want to die.... Wrote about how the people might kill him.... And you are trying to say he didnt expect his own demise as a likely outcome??? RIDICULOUS. Various articles say he wasn’t a missionary, just a keen explorer. I’m not saying he wasn’t aware of the risk factors. Just that he may have underestimated them. "In a another note, Mr Chau had declared that he was “doing this to establish the kingdom of Jesus on the island … Do not blame the natives if I am killed”." He was both a missionary, and well aware of this risks. Your argument holds no weight at all. I dont know why you are bothering with it.
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Post by Cody™ on Nov 25, 2018 7:18:31 GMT
Various articles say he wasn’t a missionary, just a keen explorer. I’m not saying he wasn’t aware of the risk factors. Just that he may have underestimated them. "In a another note, Mr Chau had declared that he was “doing this to establish the kingdom of Jesus on the island … Do not blame the natives if I am killed”." He was both a missionary, and well aware of this risks. Your argument holds no weight at all. I dont know why you are bothering with it. “Andaman Director of the General Police Dependra Pathak told the News Minute, an Indian news website, he was told that Chau lived in the US state of Alabama and was "some kind of paramedic". "People thought he is a missionary because he had mentioned his position on God and that he was a believer on social media or somewhere online. But in a strict sense, he was not a missionary. "He was an adventurer. His intention was to meet the aborigines."
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puvo
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Post by puvo on Nov 25, 2018 7:35:16 GMT
"In a another note, Mr Chau had declared that he was “doing this to establish the kingdom of Jesus on the island … Do not blame the natives if I am killed”." He was both a missionary, and well aware of this risks. Your argument holds no weight at all. I dont know why you are bothering with it. “Andaman Director of the General Police Dependra Pathak told the News Minute, an Indian news website, he was told that Chau lived in the US state of Alabama and was "some kind of paramedic". "People thought he is a missionary because he had mentioned his position on God and that he was a believer on social media or somewhere online. But in a strict sense, he was not a missionary. "He was an adventurer. His intention was to meet the aborigines." Im going to go with his own words from his journal (not "social media or somewhere online") about "establishing the kingdom of jesus on the island", over your police general told by a guy or something. You think your quote trumps his own words? If you want to quibble over whether you need to be sent by a religious order to establish the kingdom of jesus amongst primitive isolated peoples to be a missionary vs choosing himself to go and try establish the kingdom of jesus amongst primitive isolated peoples, then go right ahead with your waste of time joint. Once again, his stated intention was to "establish the kingdom of Jesus on the island" Once again, they had already tried to kill him by shooting at him with arrows. He knew the likely outcome.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 7:42:31 GMT
“Andaman Director of the General Police Dependra Pathak told the News Minute, an Indian news website, he was told that Chau lived in the US state of Alabama and was "some kind of paramedic". "People thought he is a missionary because he had mentioned his position on God and that he was a believer on social media or somewhere online. But in a strict sense, he was not a missionary. "He was an adventurer. His intention was to meet the aborigines." Im going to go with his own words from his journal (not "social media or somewhere online") about "establishing the kingdom of jesus on the island", over your police general told by a guy or something. You think your quote trumps his own words? If you want to quibble over whether you need to be sent by a religious order to establish the kingdom of jesus amongst primitive isolated peoples to be a missionary vs choosing himself to go and try establish the kingdom of jesus amongst primitive isolated peoples, then go right ahead with your waste of time joint. Once again, his stated intention was to "establish the kingdom of Jesus on the island" Once again, they had already tried to kill him by shooting at him with arrows. He knew the likely outcome. You need to understand you are trying to talk reason to a fannybaws™
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puvo
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Post by puvo on Nov 25, 2018 7:46:16 GMT
Im going to go with his own words from his journal (not "social media or somewhere online") about "establishing the kingdom of jesus on the island", over your police general told by a guy or something. You think your quote trumps his own words? If you want to quibble over whether you need to be sent by a religious order to establish the kingdom of jesus amongst primitive isolated peoples to be a missionary vs choosing himself to go and try establish the kingdom of jesus amongst primitive isolated peoples, then go right ahead with your waste of time joint. Once again, his stated intention was to "establish the kingdom of Jesus on the island" Once again, they had already tried to kill him by shooting at him with arrows. He knew the likely outcome. You need to understand you are trying to talk reason to a fannybaws™ First time ive come across that term!?! Him and goz are two sides of the same coin.
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Post by Cody™ on Nov 25, 2018 7:58:02 GMT
“Andaman Director of the General Police Dependra Pathak told the News Minute, an Indian news website, he was told that Chau lived in the US state of Alabama and was "some kind of paramedic". "People thought he is a missionary because he had mentioned his position on God and that he was a believer on social media or somewhere online. But in a strict sense, he was not a missionary. "He was an adventurer. His intention was to meet the aborigines." Im going to go with his own words from his journal (not "social media or somewhere online") about "establishing the kingdom of jesus on the island", over your police general told by a guy or something. You think your quote trumps his own words? If you want to quibble over whether you need to be sent by a religious order to establish the kingdom of jesus amongst primitive isolated peoples to be a missionary vs choosing himself to go and try establish the kingdom of jesus amongst primitive isolated peoples, then go right ahead with your waste of time joint. Once again, his stated intention was to "establish the kingdom of Jesus on the island" Once again, they had already tried to kill him by shooting at him with arrows. He knew the likely outcome. Fair enough. Then i say again his courage and faith is commendable in that he was willing to put his life on the line to help these people and introduce them to the gospel.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 8:00:57 GMT
Im going to go with his own words from his journal (not "social media or somewhere online") about "establishing the kingdom of jesus on the island", over your police general told by a guy or something. You think your quote trumps his own words? If you want to quibble over whether you need to be sent by a religious order to establish the kingdom of jesus amongst primitive isolated peoples to be a missionary vs choosing himself to go and try establish the kingdom of jesus amongst primitive isolated peoples, then go right ahead with your waste of time joint. Once again, his stated intention was to "establish the kingdom of Jesus on the island" Once again, they had already tried to kill him by shooting at him with arrows. He knew the likely outcome. Fair enough. Then i say again his courage and faith is commendable in that he was willing to put his life on the line to help these people and introduce them to the gospel. So now you are back to praising someone who could have knowingly wiped out an entire tribe and culture (genocide). You need to get your story straight, it's AOTS.
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Post by puvo on Nov 25, 2018 8:25:47 GMT
Im going to go with his own words from his journal (not "social media or somewhere online") about "establishing the kingdom of jesus on the island", over your police general told by a guy or something. You think your quote trumps his own words? If you want to quibble over whether you need to be sent by a religious order to establish the kingdom of jesus amongst primitive isolated peoples to be a missionary vs choosing himself to go and try establish the kingdom of jesus amongst primitive isolated peoples, then go right ahead with your waste of time joint. Once again, his stated intention was to "establish the kingdom of Jesus on the island" Once again, they had already tried to kill him by shooting at him with arrows. He knew the likely outcome. Fair enough. Then i say again his courage and faith is commendable in that he was willing to put his life on the line to help these people and introduce them to the gospel. No it isnt. His faith is worthy of scorn, and ridicule. His crazy reasoning processes got him killed, and could have killed the entire population of the island. Any person with half a brain could see this coming. His faith allowed him to overrule the logical part of his brain and let crazy take the wheel. It is no great leap of logic for us to think that when the arrow hit his bible, he thought jesus would protect him, and went back to the island again. Turns out, jesus did nothing. He went down in a hail of arrows. All this risk (to him, and much more importantly them) for something which cant even to be shown to be true (christianity). If f your god turns out to be real, and punishes these people for not ever hearing about your god, he isnt worth worship either.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 22:42:04 GMT
Maybe he planned this out so he could become a martyr? I just can't see how anyone could be that stupid. :/ Or maybe he just tried to reach a remote group of people who have never had the opportunity to have access to the gospel and was willing to put his life on line to achieve it? That’s pretty much what I just said but in different wording. It would have been expected for him to get killed but he took the risk anyway because of his faith. And what’s a better way to die for Christians than getting killed for their faith?
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 25, 2018 22:51:32 GMT
That only happened on a remote island, right? Nothing like that happens in Murica, right?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 23:05:20 GMT
It's not directly using violence, and perhaps "violence" isn't quite the right word, but it was definetly a threat to their well being, even if it was unitentional. I agree. But I also strongly suspect that the victim wasn’t fully aware of the risk factors involved in visiting the island. Neither to himself nor the tribe. He was likely just a young intrigued overly enthusiastic person looking for some adventure. How can you not be aware of these risk factors to yourself unless if you were really stupid? My thoughts about this guy were either he was really stupid in not realizing he would get killed or he planned out his death to become a martyr for his faith.
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Post by progressiveelement on Nov 25, 2018 23:19:33 GMT
That only happened on a remote island, right? Nothing like that happens in Murica, right? 👍
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Post by Cody™ on Nov 26, 2018 9:56:54 GMT
I agree. But I also strongly suspect that the victim wasn’t fully aware of the risk factors involved in visiting the island. Neither to himself nor the tribe. He was likely just a young intrigued overly enthusiastic person looking for some adventure. How can you not be aware of these risk factors to yourself unless if you were really stupid? My thoughts about this guy were either he was really stupid in not realizing he would get killed or he planned out his death to become a martyr for his faith. They have been contacted many times over the years by different groups without resorting to such violent measures.
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Eλευθερί
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Post by Eλευθερί on Nov 26, 2018 11:39:16 GMT
Presumably, Chau was a US citizen. No word from the US embassy, Secretary of State, or the President on this international incident?
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Post by fatpaul on Nov 26, 2018 23:09:22 GMT
Yes, I have studied Anthropology, Sociology Psychology and History at tertiary level. There is plenty you can read on the subject if you are interested, however I wish to point out the INCREDIBLE gap in almost all discrepancies between the two parties in this issue. Tribal'ism' is the most basic of societal units because humans are social animals and was crucial to the survival of hunter gatherer societies which again were the first form of society before evolutions of settlement agriculture, fire enclosure of land, rules for sex and marriage and 'property'. Allegedly this tribe has few or none of those. It is difficulty of fully understand this, especially as such psychological and philosophical issues you brought up such as 'morality', violence and defence overran and overrule any more modern concepts which are perceived by more advanced societies. Anthropologists believe that it was not until a certain level of physical surety in supply of food and security, by settlement and agriculture, that early man EVEN had time to develop any thought of 'religion' values leisure, art and music. The concepts were just not there or at least in their infancy. To expect a stone age tribe to have any concept of NOT asserting aggression when challenged for their territory, perceived or real, is just plain ridiculous. There would possibly not even have been an actual concept of 'murder in such early tribal societies. Yes it would be interesting to find out at what level these people are, butt this has thus far proved futile fruitless and, it appears dangerous for BOTH sides. Best left. What you’ve stated is not exactly esoteric information. I learnt as much in senior grammar school in a social studies class, and no, I don’t expect a stone-age culture not to be aggressively territorial. I also understand that they have asked to be left alone but I still don’t sympathize. I cannot show inconsistency on this matter because then it’s also okay for me if a non-violent person gets killed for wanting to curb female genital mutilation or cannibalism within a tribe, because hey, they’re private primitive people who just want to be left alone. When I say that I think something is wrong or that I don’t sympathize, I’m not saying that what I say is true, I am saying that this is what I feel. I think the idea of farting in a lift full of people is just wrong but it doesn’t mean that I want the guilty punished for it, just like I think the tribe was wrong but I don’t advocate punishment. And regardless of yours and others insinuations that I lack perspective, it's due to having a perspective that I don’t advocate punishment but is still doesn’t stop me from feeling the way I do. But after saying all this, I still like to think that I'm consistent in how I feel about things.
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Post by goz on Nov 26, 2018 23:42:55 GMT
Yes, I have studied Anthropology, Sociology Psychology and History at tertiary level. There is plenty you can read on the subject if you are interested, however I wish to point out the INCREDIBLE gap in almost all discrepancies between the two parties in this issue. Tribal'ism' is the most basic of societal units because humans are social animals and was crucial to the survival of hunter gatherer societies which again were the first form of society before evolutions of settlement agriculture, fire enclosure of land, rules for sex and marriage and 'property'. Allegedly this tribe has few or none of those. It is difficulty of fully understand this, especially as such psychological and philosophical issues you brought up such as 'morality', violence and defence overran and overrule any more modern concepts which are perceived by more advanced societies. Anthropologists believe that it was not until a certain level of physical surety in supply of food and security, by settlement and agriculture, that early man EVEN had time to develop any thought of 'religion' values leisure, art and music. The concepts were just not there or at least in their infancy. To expect a stone age tribe to have any concept of NOT asserting aggression when challenged for their territory, perceived or real, is just plain ridiculous. There would possibly not even have been an actual concept of 'murder in such early tribal societies. Yes it would be interesting to find out at what level these people are, butt this has thus far proved futile fruitless and, it appears dangerous for BOTH sides. Best left. What you’ve stated is not exactly esoteric information. I learnt as much in senior grammar school in a social studies class, and no, I don’t expect a stone-age culture not to be aggressively territorial. I also understand that they have asked to be left alone but I still don’t sympathize. I cannot show inconsistency on this matter because then it’s also okay for me if a non-violent person gets killed for wanting to curb female genital mutilation or cannibalism within a tribe, because hey, they’re private primitive people who just want to be left alone. When I say that I think something is wrong or that I don’t sympathize, I’m not saying that what I say is true, I am saying that this is what I feel. I think the idea of farting in a lift full of people is just wrong but it doesn’t mean that I want the guilty punished for it, just like I think the tribe was wrong but I don’t advocate punishment. And regardless of yours and others insinuations that I lack perspective, it's due to having a perspective that I don’t advocate punishment but is still doesn’t stop me from feeling the way I do. But after saying all this, I still like to think that I'm consistent in how I feel about things.Your feelings on things and a constant opinion are your prerogative. In this case they are just not based on the facts of the case of extreme sociological differences between the parties, and you are basing your opinion on a modern Western basis/bias as I have said three times now. A primitive tribe, JUST because it has managed t survive against ALL the odds to modern days has NO obligation to subscribe to yours or anyone else's modern day views of morality which are not applicable to them in any way shape or form.
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