|
Post by WarrenPeace on Nov 26, 2018 23:45:44 GMT
Or maybe he just tried to reach a remote group of people who have never had the opportunity to have access to the gospel and was willing to put his life on line to achieve it? That’s pretty much what I just said but in different wording. It would have been expected for him to get killed but he took the risk anyway because of his faith. And what’s a better way to die for Christians than getting killed for their faith? True. If they see it as a miracle that he didn't get killed the first time he went there, they will make him into a Saint.
|
|
fatpaul
Sophomore
@fatpaul
Posts: 502
Likes: 193
|
Post by fatpaul on Nov 26, 2018 23:49:29 GMT
Your feelings on things and a constant opinion are your prerogative. In this case they are just not based on the facts of the case of extreme sociological differences between the parties, and you are basing your opinion on a modern Western basis/bias as I have said three times now. Feelings and emotions are not things based on fact, they are about how one feels. I never said they did.
|
|
|
Post by WarrenPeace on Nov 26, 2018 23:50:24 GMT
Im going to go with his own words from his journal (not "social media or somewhere online") about "establishing the kingdom of jesus on the island", over your police general told by a guy or something. You think your quote trumps his own words? If you want to quibble over whether you need to be sent by a religious order to establish the kingdom of jesus amongst primitive isolated peoples to be a missionary vs choosing himself to go and try establish the kingdom of jesus amongst primitive isolated peoples, then go right ahead with your waste of time joint. Once again, his stated intention was to "establish the kingdom of Jesus on the island" Once again, they had already tried to kill him by shooting at him with arrows. He knew the likely outcome. Fair enough. Then i say again his courage and faith is commendable in that he was willing to put his life on the line to help these people and introduce them to the gospel. Help them? They don't need any help from anybody. You do realize that a flu might wipe them all out, right? So if he had the flu how is that helping them? By being there he was putting their lives more at risk than not.
|
|
|
Post by goz on Nov 27, 2018 0:06:02 GMT
Your feelings on things and a constant opinion are your prerogative. In this case they are just not based on the facts of the case of extreme sociological differences between the parties, and you are basing your opinion on a modern Western basis/bias as I have said three times now. Feelings and emotions are not things based on fact, they are about how one feels. I never said they did. Yes, you did.
|
|
fatpaul
Sophomore
@fatpaul
Posts: 502
Likes: 193
|
Post by fatpaul on Nov 27, 2018 0:08:12 GMT
Feelings and emotions are not things based on fact, they are about how one feels. I never said they did. Yes, you did. Okay, fair enough, I retract that statement. The part about holding a culture to it.
|
|
|
Post by goz on Nov 27, 2018 0:39:58 GMT
Okay, fair enough, I retract that statement. The part about holding a culture to it. Well, that was your whole post dated argument!
|
|
fatpaul
Sophomore
@fatpaul
Posts: 502
Likes: 193
|
Post by fatpaul on Nov 27, 2018 0:44:10 GMT
Okay, fair enough, I retract that statement. The part about holding a culture to it. Well, that was your whole post dated argument! What I stated in the post to you is what I mean, and that statement I've said I've retracted. My main point is about emotions and feeling and moralising from such feelings.
|
|
|
Post by goz on Nov 27, 2018 0:53:02 GMT
Well, that was your whole post dated argument! What I stated in the post to you is what I mean, and that statement I've said I've retracted. My main point was about emotions and feeling and moralising from such feelings. Great! ...and you naturally have a modern Western perspective that is inappropriate in a thread about primitive man. You are not wrong, just misplaced on this particular thread, where you have consistently missed the whole point.
|
|
fatpaul
Sophomore
@fatpaul
Posts: 502
Likes: 193
|
Post by fatpaul on Nov 27, 2018 1:02:19 GMT
What I stated in the post to you is what I mean, and that statement I've said I've retracted. My main point was about emotions and feeling and moralising from such feelings. Great! ...and you naturally have a modern Western perspective that is inappropriate in a thread about primitive man. You are not wrong, just misplaced on this particular thread, where you have consistently missed the whole point. I still think that killing a non-violent person is wrong under any circumstances and if you look over my posts, this is what I was saying constantly over and over and no amount of brow-beating is going to change my view on that. And I really don't give a flying fuck if you think me wrong or right.
|
|
|
Post by goz on Nov 27, 2018 6:41:09 GMT
,,, and yet a Great! ...and you naturally have a modern Western perspective that is inappropriate in a thread about primitive man. You are not wrong, just misplaced on this particular thread, where you have consistently missed the whole point. I still think that killing a non-violent person is wrong under any circumstances and if you look over my posts, this is what I was saying constantly over and over and no amount of brow-beating is going to change my view on that. And I really don't give a flying fuck if you think me wrong or right. .. and yet in this case, a 'non-violent person' could have wiped out their entire civilisation, so he was a deeply dangerous and threatening person, and perhaps more dangerous in the circumstances that we have been discussing....even over and above the lack of comprehension of the tribalists over their vulnerable situation...he could have been viewed as a 'violent person'...TO THEM...disturbing their peace, sanctity borders privacy and inherent sense of self as a tribe. In that sense a non-violent person doesn't force his presence on this group. He 'violated' their sanctuary.
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Nov 27, 2018 23:30:54 GMT
Another take on the young missionary who lost his life hoping to convert tribespeople:
|
|
|
Post by goz on Nov 27, 2018 23:46:06 GMT
Another take on the young missionary who lost his life hoping to convert tribespeople: What a truly stupid myopic video. FACT: The guy got killed because he superimposed the importance of HIS beliefs over the rights of others. The tribespeople were not 'in need' as that jackass said at the end.
|
|
|
Post by drystyx on Nov 27, 2018 23:49:46 GMT
What I stated in the post to you is what I mean, and that statement I've said I've retracted. My main point is about emotions and feeling and moralising from such feelings.Well, perhaps you need to keep your emotions, feelings and moralizing in check and operate from a more common sense and rational approach to this. You are trying to be a goodie two shoes and failing miserably because you have no logical foundation for you argument, apart that killing an unarmed man is wrong. Nothing is ever just this or that, or black and white and this is where you are fighting a lost cause with yourself.
A foolhardy man paid the ultimate price for his own pride, something you need to swallow as well. Okay, killing an unarmed man is "not wrong" now? I'm confused. So, you say you have no emotions, Spock? Okay, you're a Vulcan. Congratulations. He didn't pay the ultimate price for "his own pride". He paid the price for putting away pride. It certainly appears he was intending on spreading the gospel, certainly foolish as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't risk my life, but he did. That's "courage", not "arrogance". "Arrogance" is feeling oneself is superior. From all reports, he died in humility for his lord. I wouldn't do it, because I'm a coward. I'm willing to admit it. "Coward" and "survivor" are synonyms. Some people can't deal with that. Some people can't admit that people with courage have courage. Some people live in the delusion that they are perfect machines that never take chances, and that anyone who doesn't feel their sense of superiority is "arrogant" and full of "pride". Well, so much for you being "logical", Spock.
|
|
|
Post by goz on Nov 27, 2018 23:59:29 GMT
Well, perhaps you need to keep your emotions, feelings and moralizing in check and operate from a more common sense and rational approach to this. You are trying to be a goodie two shoes and failing miserably because you have no logical foundation for you argument, apart that killing an unarmed man is wrong. Nothing is ever just this or that, or black and white and this is where you are fighting a lost cause with yourself.
A foolhardy man paid the ultimate price for his own pride, something you need to swallow as well. Okay, killing an unarmed man is "not wrong" now? I'm confused. So, you say you have no emotions, Spock? Okay, you're a Vulcan. Congratulations. He didn't pay the ultimate price for "his own pride". He paid the price for putting away pride. It certainly appears he was intending on spreading the gospel, certainly foolish as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't risk my life, but he did. That's "courage", not "arrogance". "Arrogance" is feeling oneself is superior. From all reports, he died in humility for his lord. I wouldn't do it, because I'm a coward. I'm willing to admit it. "Coward" and "survivor" are synonyms. Some people can't deal with that. Some people can't admit that people with courage have courage. Some people live in the delusion that they are perfect machines that never take chances, and that anyone who doesn't feel their sense of superiority is "arrogant" and full of "pride". Well, so much for you being "logical", Spock. To a pre-Neolithic tribesman defending his lifestyle and territory, no. In the view of stupid modern Westerner like your self projecting your own morality on a situation, perhaps, stupidly yes. Yes, he died because of his own pride in thinking that HIS opinion superseded and transcended the right of the primitive tribespeople to sanctity and safety. 'Spreading the gospel' is ridiculous self serving and stupid because sensible people, even and especially primitive people, don't necessarily thing it has any value at all LET ALONE the right to override the rights of others. COMPLETE arrogance and contempt for others if you think that spreading the gospel give you ANY credence or permission to try to convert other to YOUR personal opinion. It is disgraceful what missionaries have done in the past and still unfortunately think that they have a right to do in the name of their God or some such other nonsense. They should STFU and leave others alone.
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Nov 28, 2018 0:38:35 GMT
Another take on the young missionary who lost his life hoping to convert tribespeople: What a truly stupid myopic video. FACT: The guy got killed because he superimposed the importance of HIS beliefs over the rights of others. The tribespeople were not 'in need' as that jackass said at the end. Please allow me to add my 2 cents here: I actually think what this kid did was completely FOOLISH, going to this island with the intent of proselytizing to a people that are completely hostile to outsiders, & would have had no understanding of English (& likewise, there is no way in heck he would have known how to speak THEIR language, due to the fact that nobody outside of the island would have known the language spoken, as no outsiders have been able to make friendly contact with these people to learn one another's languages. As you have already posted to Drystix, these are a pre-Neolithic tribespeople, that are completely ignorant of modern technological advances in absolutely EVERYTHING, --not just in terms of religion--and are hostile to the outside world, which have all these things. Apparently, this wasn't even the first time this kid tried to come to the island to convert these tribespeople. And from what was noted in the video, he knew it was highly likely he was going to get himself killed. In fact, he should have realized that was the ONLY THING that was going to happen, precisely because there would be no way for him to preach the Gospel to these people, as he would have never had the time to learn how to communicate with them.
|
|
|
Post by goz on Nov 28, 2018 0:59:50 GMT
What a truly stupid myopic video. FACT: The guy got killed because he superimposed the importance of HIS beliefs over the rights of others. The tribespeople were not 'in need' as that jackass said at the end. Please allow me to add my 2 cents here: I actually think what this kid did was completely FOOLISH, going to this island with the intent of proselytizing to a people that are completely hostile to outsiders, & would have had no understanding of English (& likewise, there is no way in heck he would have known how to speak THEIR language, due to the fact that nobody outside of the island would have known the language spoken, as no outsiders have been able to make friendly contact with these people to learn one another's languages. As you have already posted to Drystix, these are a pre-Neolithic tribespeople, that are completely ignorant of modern technological advances in absolutely EVERYTHING, --not just in terms of religion--and are hostile to the outside world, which have all these things. Apparently, this wasn't even the first time this kid tried to come to the island to convert these tribespeople. And from what was noted in the video, he knew it was highly likely he was going to get himself killed. In fact, he should have realized that was the ONLY THING that was going to happen, precisely because there would be no way for him to preach the Gospel to these people, as he would have never had the time to learn how to communicate with them. Then why did you post the stupid vid in favour of prosthelysing by that fundy idiot?
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Nov 28, 2018 1:03:39 GMT
Please allow me to add my 2 cents here: I actually think what this kid did was completely FOOLISH, going to this island with the intent of proselytizing to a people that are completely hostile to outsiders, & would have had no understanding of English (& likewise, there is no way in heck he would have known how to speak THEIR language, due to the fact that nobody outside of the island would have known the language spoken, as no outsiders have been able to make friendly contact with these people to learn one another's languages. As you have already posted to Drystix, these are a pre-Neolithic tribespeople, that are completely ignorant of modern technological advances in absolutely EVERYTHING, --not just in terms of religion--and are hostile to the outside world, which have all these things. Apparently, this wasn't even the first time this kid tried to come to the island to convert these tribespeople. And from what was noted in the video, he knew it was highly likely he was going to get himself killed. In fact, he should have realized that was the ONLY THING that was going to happen, precisely because there would be no way for him to preach the Gospel to these people, as he would have never had the time to learn how to communicate with them. Then why did you post the stupid vid in favour of prosthelysing by that fundy idiot? For the sake of showing other people's views on the matter. As the guy in the video noted, if that had been a Muslim missionary, or even somebody with Western Feminist views, that went to this island, the media might have been more sympathetic.
|
|
|
Post by goz on Nov 28, 2018 1:11:21 GMT
Then why did you post the stupid vid in favour of prosthelysing by that fundy idiot? For the sake of showing other people's views on the matter. As the guy in the video noted, if that had been a Muslim missionary, or even somebody with Western Feminist views, that went to this island, the media might have been more sympathetic.What total nonsense. NO-ONE should go there. This is totally beside the point and a red herring to somehow excuse the excesses of fundamentalism and missionaries. Who else would even do that? ONLY an arrogant, entitled Christian fucking missionary!
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Nov 28, 2018 1:12:18 GMT
For the sake of showing other people's views on the matter. As the guy in the video noted, if that had been a Muslim missionary, or even somebody with Western Feminist views, that went to this island, the media might have been more sympathetic.What total nonsense. NO-ONE should go there. This is totally beside the point and a red herring to somehow excuse the excesses of fundamentalism and missionaries. Who else would even do that? ONLY an arrogant, entitled Christian fucking missionary! No. Fishermen have been killed doing that too.
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Nov 28, 2018 1:13:45 GMT
For the sake of showing other people's views on the matter. As the guy in the video noted, if that had been a Muslim missionary, or even somebody with Western Feminist views, that went to this island, the media might have been more sympathetic.What total nonsense. NO-ONE should go there. This is totally beside the point and a red herring to somehow excuse the excesses of fundamentalism and missionaries. Who else would even do that? ONLY an arrogant, entitled Christian fucking missionary!
|
|