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Post by darkpast on Dec 13, 2018 7:15:31 GMT
What makes this movie special, and why it should be recognized ? Coogler has done better movies with very little recognition , which made me upset. BP is by the numbers mcu film.
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Post by summers8 on Dec 13, 2018 9:32:03 GMT
no
and in away that is fine, the problem is these mcu fans don't even want to admit it. as said, I will support BP for awards as long as MCU fans showed they supported WW for awards too.
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Post by Grabthar's Hammer on Dec 13, 2018 11:32:27 GMT
I don't know but now I can't stop thinking about what movie would be considered the "White Black Panther".
It's gotta be 'Gods of Egypt' right? Right?!
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Post by Vassaggo on Dec 13, 2018 12:03:09 GMT
No it wouldn't. I also believe that: Logan wouldn't have gotten any awards if it wasn't Hugh Jackman's last time as Wolverine.
Heath Ledger wouldn't have if he didn't die.
Wonder Woman wouldn't have been considered for any major award if it wasn't the first Blockbuster Directed by a female with the largest budget for female director about a long time feminist icon.
It's not just superhero movies. I don't think John Wayne deserved Best Actor Nomination/Win for True Grit. The Honorary Oscar wasn't seen as prestigious and the Special Achievement Award wasn't created until 2 years after True Grit. The Academy wanted to Honor John Wayne for his contribution to film, even if he wasn't a great actor (he was more of a specialist he could play 1 type really well but that's about it) so they gave him the Best Actor Oscar in 1970.
Major awards are, mores the pity, not about the best of the year. (Or it wouldn't have taken until 2007 for Martin Scorsese to get Best Director Oscar as just one more example) It's more about politics, campaigns, tapping into the zeitgeist, emotions, and business.
The awards mean absolutely nothing and have for a long time. I would say it stopped being about the best when the first campaigns started in the late 70's but it goes back further than that. Before campaigns Hollywood was so close knit they didn't need campaigns. The awards are nothing more than a popularity circle jerk of a group of people in one type of business.
I like to keep track of stuff like ratings, critics, awards, box office because I'm a numbers guy. It's like baseball statistics for me. None of it determines if a movie is Good or Bad. That can only be determined by the consumer of the art. Individual Opinion, yours specifically, is the only thing that matters on determining that.
Now is ratings, critics, awards and box office completely useless? No. They determine at the very least if the producers of the art can continue producing. This is a business so Box Office matters in that regard. Failing huge box office things like public ratings, critics, and awards can be seen as a moral victory. The makers of such art might be able to continue in the business creating with them even if they fail to make a quick profit.
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Post by DSDSquared on Dec 13, 2018 12:58:46 GMT
no and in away that is fine, the problem is these mcu fans don't even want to admit it. as said, I will support BP for awards as long as MCU fans showed they supported WW for awards too. Every MCU fan admits this. One of the most common threads on here is how overrated the movie is.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Dec 13, 2018 13:09:52 GMT
Of course not. It's a good thing it's nominated for so many awards, otherwise you would've had to come up with something else to complain about.
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Post by faustus5 on Dec 13, 2018 15:04:44 GMT
The premise of this thread is idiotic beyond belief, not surprising considering who started it. It completely ignores the context of the film itself, which makes European colonialism and the race and origins of its characters central to its themes. There is no context in which a version staring an all white cast even remotely begins to makes sense.
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Post by No Morpho, Only Bánh mì on Dec 13, 2018 15:53:14 GMT
The premise of this thread is idiotic beyond belief, not surprising considering who started it. It completely ignores the context of the film itself, which makes European colonialism and the race and origins of its characters central to its themes. There is no context in which a version staring an all white cast even remotely begins to makes sense. I was just picturing some sort of surreal otherworldly blackface satire. There’s no other way.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Dec 13, 2018 15:58:10 GMT
The premise of this thread is idiotic beyond belief, not surprising considering who started it. It completely ignores the context of the film itself, which makes European colonialism and the race and origins of its characters central to its themes. There is no context in which a version staring an all white cast even remotely begins to makes sense. Careful, that kind of reasoning will get you labeled a "SJW" or a "Cuck" from the lovely folks here on these boards.
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Post by summers8 on Dec 13, 2018 16:59:27 GMT
No it wouldn't. I also believe that: Logan wouldn't have gotten any awards if it wasn't Hugh Jackman's last time as Wolverine. Heath Ledger wouldn't have if he didn't die. Pure horseshit. Jackman's last film has no effect and that is new and unheard off. though this will not be messy if the Oscars back then had nominated the serious grounded comic movies at least. X1, X2, Batman Begins, DOFP, TDKR TDK. Before logan and now BP that wants to do it by race baiting. did Daniel day lewis last film earn him a recognition?
is Robert Redford last film earning him an recognition?
AND THESE ARE ACTORS WHO MOVIES ARE OSCAR DARLINGS UNLIKE COMIC MOVIES THAT Jackman has been in. logan was down to art. the movie overshadowed even Jackman's celebrity.As for ledger I see it as a partick stewart moment in logan, everyone wanted stewart to be nominated and he wasn't. both deserved.
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Post by summers8 on Dec 13, 2018 17:03:15 GMT
The premise of this thread is idiotic beyond belief, not surprising considering who started it. It completely ignores the context of the film itself, which makes European colonialism and the race and origins of its characters central to its themes. There is no context in which a version staring an all white cast even remotely begins to makes sense. a mostly white cast took on anti Semitism, racism and genocide and did it far better. it was called DOFP.
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Post by Vassaggo on Dec 13, 2018 17:36:28 GMT
No it wouldn't. I also believe that: Logan wouldn't have gotten any awards if it wasn't Hugh Jackman's last time as Wolverine. Heath Ledger wouldn't have if he didn't die. Pure horseshit. Jackman's last film has no effect and that is new and unheard off. though this will not be messy if the Oscars back then had nominated the serious grounded comic movies at least. X1, X2, Batman Begins, DOFP, TDKR TDK. Before logan and now BP that wants to do it by race baiting. did Daniel day lewis last film earn him a recognition?
is Robert Redford last film earning him an recognition?
AND THESE ARE ACTORS WHO MOVIES ARE OSCAR DARLINGS UNLIKE COMIC MOVIES THAT Jackman has been in. logan was down to art. the movie overshadowed even Jackman's celebrity.As for ledger I see it as a partick stewart moment in logan, everyone wanted stewart to be nominated and he wasn't. both deserved. That's your Opinion, it's not mine. Did Daniel Day Lewis play a recurring role that help start a movement in Cinema that has lasted 15+ years with what 8 movies? You are telling me that if Wolverine Survived and Hugh said he had signed a contract for 3 more X-men movies then Logan would've had the same punch? You are saying Wolverine dying and Hugh Jackman hanging up his claws in a culmination of 15+ years of helping establish the Golden Age of Comicbook Movies had absolutely no effect on the people voting for the nomination? I didn't say it was the only reason for the Oscar nomination, but it was a contributing factor. With out that set of variables I don't think it would've gotten it. The same with Heath. If Heath had survived I don't think his performance would've been as highly examined as it was. The fact that him going method and it fucking up his sleep and psyche also help push his performance into the lime light. His death can literally be traced to his drug abuse. Add to that his friends and family saying his drug abuse heightened because he couldn't sleep at night due to playing the joker. That accentuates his performance even more. The narrative is the actor literally died to make his art. I'm not insulting the writing or performances. I'm saying there is extenuating circumstance or context to those examples. Their are narratives that each studio pushes and what people like to hear. There were narratives/context/outside forces with all my examples that accentuated the art work. If you don't want to believe that then that's fine.
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Post by Vassaggo on Dec 13, 2018 17:53:42 GMT
The premise of this thread is idiotic beyond belief, not surprising considering who started it. It completely ignores the context of the film itself, which makes European colonialism and the race and origins of its characters central to its themes. There is no context in which a version staring an all white cast even remotely begins to makes sense. I was just picturing some sort of surreal otherworldly blackface satire. There’s no other way. There was a movie with John Travolta and either Sidney Poitier or Harry Belafonte where the world was the opposite with racial discrimination. I want to say White Man's Burden but I could be wrong on that. Where the power structures were controlled by African Americans and the system oppressed white people. It's been a while and I'd look it up but just to lazy.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2018 18:13:39 GMT
I'm stuck in the middle of at least one of those points. I never bought into Heath Ledger being posthumously recognized for The Joker because he died. I felt like I never had to buy into it. I can really only speak for myself when I say he died and then...nothing changed. The role or the movie. It was what it was.
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Post by politicidal on Dec 13, 2018 18:24:43 GMT
I'm stuck in the middle of at least one of those points. I never bought into Heath Ledger being posthumously recognized for The Joker because he died. I felt like I never had to buy into it. I can really only speak for myself when I say he died and then...nothing changed. The role or the movie. It was what it was.
This. It always bugged me when people downplayed the effort he clearly put into the character by reducing his accolade as a pity gift.
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Post by politicidal on Dec 13, 2018 18:27:08 GMT
Vassaggo be careful you’re arguing with a lawyer though and the Oscars are bound by law not to award movies he doesn’t like . Remember he knows how to lay down the law of the reality of what’s going on, Thanos-style!
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Post by Vits on Dec 13, 2018 18:29:24 GMT
Would you ask the same question about IF BEALE STREET COULD TALK, BLACKKKLANSMAN or GREEN BOOK?
This is like asking "What if the characters in A STAR IS BORN had a non-music profession?" or "What if THE FAVOURITE took place in a non-monarchy country?". Sure, the blueprint of plot could be the same but, if you're gonna change elements that give the story a context, why not re-write the whole script?
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Post by Vassaggo on Dec 13, 2018 18:30:06 GMT
I'm stuck in the middle of at least one of those points. I never bought into Heath Ledger being posthumously recognized for The Joker because he died. I felt like I never had to buy into it. I can really only speak for myself when I say he died and then...nothing changed. The role or the movie. It was what it was.
I may be wrong. The narrative of the tortured artist who died for his craft helped to put a spotlight on his great performance. I do believe it was great. (I still don't think that a comic book movie has deserved a major award, Heath was the closest IMHO) I just think that narrative help frame the performance. It pushed people to vote on the nomination and for the win that wouldn't have if that narrative didn't showcase the performance.
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Post by faustus5 on Dec 13, 2018 18:47:24 GMT
a mostly white cast took on anti Semitism, racism and genocide and did it far better. it was called DOFP. Has got absolutely nothing to do with the substance of my post. Try reading and thinking next time.
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Post by poutinep on Dec 13, 2018 18:55:42 GMT
Sure, maybe.
But how would that work? Would Martin Freeman and Andy Serkis' characters be black instead?
Would Michael B. Jordan's character be a white guy planning to arm white people around the world with vibranium weapons so they can fight back against their oppressors?
What of Wakanda? It couldn't be a city full of white people in the middle of Africa believed by the world to be poor and primitive could it?
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