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Post by Tristan's Journal on Dec 13, 2018 19:49:13 GMT
The premise of this thread is idiotic beyond belief, not surprising considering who started it. It completely ignores the context of the film itself, which makes European colonialism and the race and origins of its characters central to its themes. There is no context in which a version staring an all white cast even remotely begins to makes sense.  I am an avid history buff, including African colonialism. But I missed that point entirely. Having been to Africa several times I was less than impressed with BP. All I saw was a corny Marvelland-Africa, all with ape-grunting Africans, primitive fight rituals in a StarTrek world riding CGI-war-rhinos. And a nation cynically and unrealistically not sharing it's wealth and knowledge with the poor neighbors, but hiding it's existence behind energy shields. That is what I would call "idiotic beyond believe". That must have been written by a bunch of white comic book guy eager to get some black kid money...and guess what, it WAS. But maybe you could finally enlighten me as to what the exact colonialism point and theme of BP was - please demonstrate by referring to exact dialogue and scene. PS: I know of two real African countries that were never colonized: Liberia and Ethiopia - two nations your president would likely call shitholes. PPS: If you really think that white people were never subject to extensive colonialism and that there is no historical analogue then you might be over your head here completely (education wise). |
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Post by hobowar on Dec 13, 2018 19:56:41 GMT
Would Daniel Day Lewis be considered a good actor if he wasn't a good actor?
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Post by No Morpho, Only Bánh mì on Dec 13, 2018 19:59:32 GMT
Would Daniel Day Lewis be considered a good actor if he wasn't a good actor? People would think he was just acting like a bad actor. |
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Post by hobowar on Dec 13, 2018 20:01:27 GMT
Would Daniel Day Lewis be considered a good actor if he wasn't a good actor? People would think he was just acting like a bad actor. Touché |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2018 20:14:49 GMT
I'd like to say I appreciate the thought experiment, but Black Panther with a white cast is near tantamount to Wonder Woman if Wonder Woman were a man. It defeats the purpose and the movie.
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Post by faustus5 on Dec 13, 2018 20:49:29 GMT
But maybe you could finally enlighten me as to what the exact colonialism point and theme of BP was - please demonstrate by referring to exact dialogue and scene. It would be pearls before swine. If you are so tone deaf that you couldn't pick it out for yourself, you are beyond all hope and reason and wouldn't listen to anything I pointed out. I mean, pointing out "And a nation cynically and unrealistically not sharing it's wealth and knowledge with the poor neighbors, but hiding it's existence behind energy shields" as if that were somehow a flaw when the script makes this entire thing an actual fucking issue says it all about how much goes right over your head. |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Dec 13, 2018 21:00:21 GMT
But maybe you could finally enlighten me as to what the exact colonialism point and theme of BP was - please demonstrate by referring to exact dialogue and scene. If you are so tone deaf that you couldn't pick it out for yourself, you are beyond all hope and reason and wouldn't listen to anything I pointed out. So you got nothing. Let me quote you as adieu: " Not surprising considering who started it."  |
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Post by darkpast on Dec 13, 2018 23:30:21 GMT
Would you ask the same question about IF BEALE STREET COULD TALK, BLACKKKLANSMAN or GREEN BOOK? This is like asking "What if the characters in A STAR IS BORN had a non-music profession?" or "What if THE FAVOURITE took place in a non-monarchy country?". Sure, the blueprint of plot could be the same but, if you're gonna change elements that give the story a context, why not re-write the whole script? no, I can easily compare bp to other mcu films, and know for a fact that it ranks in middle of quality of mcu, better films got no recognition. The other oscar films are not part of a franchise, so I have no argument |
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Dec 14, 2018 0:48:02 GMT
The premise of this thread is idiotic beyond belief, not surprising considering who started it. It completely ignores the context of the film itself, which makes European colonialism and the race and origins of its characters central to its themes. There is no context in which a version staring an all white cast even remotely begins to makes sense. I was just picturing some sort of surreal otherworldly blackface satire. There’s no other way. |
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Post by Vassaggo on Dec 14, 2018 5:58:19 GMT
Would you ask the same question about IF BEALE STREET COULD TALK, BLACKKKLANSMAN or GREEN BOOK? This is like asking "What if the characters in A STAR IS BORN had a non-music profession?" or "What if THE FAVOURITE took place in a non-monarchy country?". Sure, the blueprint of plot could be the same but, if you're gonna change elements that give the story a context, why not re-write the whole script? no, I can easily compare bp to other mcu films, and know for a fact that it ranks in middle of quality of mcu, better films got no recognition. The other oscar films are not part of a franchise, so I have no argument Have you been hanging out with Summers8? You can prove the quality of a movie as a fact? I'd love to see you prove it as a fact. So lets see the Objective Evidence of the quality of a movie so it can be proven. |
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Post by justanaveragejoe on Dec 14, 2018 7:19:36 GMT
Irrelevant argument.
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Post by faustus5 on Dec 14, 2018 11:10:49 GMT
I'll throw you a nugget, even though it, too, will go completely over your head and you factually deserve nothing: the scene where we first meet Killmonger in the museum.
To a person of average to lower intelligence, it would be obvious that this scene touches on the theme of European colonialism which is part of Killmonger's motivation. But you won't see this, being what you are. People like you are about as susceptible to facts, logic, and reason as a young earth Creationist.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Dec 14, 2018 12:18:40 GMT
I'll throw you a nugget, even though it, too, will go completely over your head and you factually deserve nothing: the scene where we first meet Killmonger in the museum.
To a person of average to lower intelligence, it would be obvious that this scene touches on the theme of European colonialism which is part of Killmonger's motivation. But you won't see this, being what you are. People like you are about as susceptible to facts, logic, and reason as a young earth Creationist.
a nugget of fool's gold evidently.
Normally, I would have to ask you to elaborate on those "facts, logic and reason" you neglect to provide, in particular how European colonialism is supposed to motivate a young Afro-American in 2018 who seems out for the Wakanda throne and revenge, and how it's a relevant theme in that movie and what messege on European colonialism the writing is supposed to convey.
But you know what, who needs all that? Your nuggets are so naturally enriched with absurd straw men and defensive adhoms that it tells me all. I will keep your nugget in my fool's gold vitrine with a little sign saying "faustus5", and promise to have a laugh everytime I walk by.
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Post by DSDSquared on Dec 14, 2018 12:30:18 GMT
The premise of this thread is idiotic beyond belief, not surprising considering who started it. It completely ignores the context of the film itself, which makes European colonialism and the race and origins of its characters central to its themes. There is no context in which a version staring an all white cast even remotely begins to makes sense. a mostly white cast took on anti Semitism, racism and genocide and did it far better. it was called DOFP. You know I am a big MCU fan and even I admit that Days of Future Past craps all over Black Panther. The only MCU movies I would say that can compare are maybe Winter Soldier, Infinity War, and Thor 3 IMO. Thor 3 is just a personal preference to me. It may not TECHNICALLY be the better film, but I just enjoy the hell out of it. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Dec 14, 2018 12:32:34 GMT
no and in away that is fine, the problem is these mcu fans don't even want to admit it. as said, I will support BP for awards as long as MCU fans showed they supported WW for awards too. Every MCU fan admits this. One of the most common threads on here is how overrated the movie is. The people that love Black Panther love it because of it's cultural significance.
The funny thing about this guy is that he is so delusional that he thinks because a person likes the MCU they can't possibly like anything outside of it. Even when we keep saying we liked Logan, Deadpool 1 & 2 and Wonder Woman from the recent crop of non-MCU movies. For his narrative he has to ignore it and say we are lying.
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Post by ThatGuy on Dec 14, 2018 12:37:26 GMT
I'll throw you a nugget, even though it, too, will go completely over your head and you factually deserve nothing: the scene where we first meet Killmonger in the museum.
To a person of average to lower intelligence, it would be obvious that this scene touches on the theme of European colonialism which is part of Killmonger's motivation. But you won't see this, being what you are. People like you are about as susceptible to facts, logic, and reason as a young earth Creationist.
a nugget of fool's gold evidently.
Normally, I would have to ask you to elaborate on those "facts, logic and reason" you neglect to provide, in particular how European colonialism is supposed to motivate a young Afro-American in 2018 who seems out for the Wakanda throne and revenge, and how it's a relevant theme in that movie and what messege on European colonialism the writing is supposed to convey.
But you know what, who needs all that? Your nuggets are so naturally enriched with absurd straw men and defensive adhoms that it tells me all. I will keep your nugget in my fool's gold vitrine with a little sign saying "faustus5", and promise to have a laugh everytime I walk by.
Then he proceeds to ignore what you said, faustus5, to support his narrative like his friend. |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Dec 14, 2018 13:16:17 GMT
a nugget of fool's gold evidently.
Normally, I would have to ask you to elaborate on those "facts, logic and reason" you neglect to provide, in particular how European colonialism is supposed to motivate a young Afro-American in 2018 who seems out for the Wakanda throne and revenge, and how it's a relevant theme in that movie and what messege on European colonialism the writing is supposed to convey.
But you know what, who needs all that? Your nuggets are so naturally enriched with absurd straw men and defensive adhoms that it tells me all. I will keep your nugget in my fool's gold vitrine with a little sign saying "faustus5", and promise to have a laugh everytime I walk by.
Then he proceeds to ignore what you said, faustus5 , to support his narrative like his friend. You talking to me? Well then, if you take over the failed burden-of-proof from faustus5, I would love to hear it :
(i) explain the relevance of European colonialism (EC) for the story and characters (motivation) of BP, and (ii) what this movie has to SAY about this complex and difficult subject matter, by stating
- exact dialogue - exect scene - describe motivation (by dialogue and scenes) - and messege (by dialogue and scenes)
Eg Explain:
- How does EC affect a story about a sci-fi country hiding behind energy shields (we have countries like Liberia and Ethiopia for that) - How does EC affect a young Afro-American in 2018 who seems out for the Wakanda throne and revenge - How is EC a theme affecting the story and characters? - How is the topic of EC discussed and evaluated, does it differenciate per nation (Europe is not one country, these were several nations acting very differently per country, just see Begium in Congo)
Just note, I do not care for childish pseudo-arguments. Just bc a big word is (pretentiously) uttered does not make it relevant for the plot and charatcers.
Eg the topic of "ocean pollution" is blatantly a theme in "Aquaman", but it's dealt with so superficially that this important topic is factually reduced to a mere plot device to get the story going. Stiil, if you remove this motivator the character actions and story do not make sense anymore. I bet that is a lot more than you can say about EC in BP.
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Post by summers8 on Dec 14, 2018 19:16:10 GMT
Every MCU fan admits this. One of the most common threads on here is how overrated the movie is. The people that love Black Panther love it because of it's cultural significance.
The funny thing about this guy is that he is so delusional that he thinks because a person likes the MCU they can't possibly like anything outside of it. Even when we keep saying we liked Logan, Deadpool 1 & 2 and Wonder Woman from the recent crop of non-MCU movies. For his narrative he has to ignore it and say we are lying.
The oscars are not about cultural significance. they are about awarding what is the best. poor mcu. look at how much your movies have destroyed cinema? all this awards recognition BP is getting and people are laughing and cringing. MCU fans cant even brag about it because you mcu fans know it is based on a lie and the disney pr machine.
ah...dont we miss the days of tdk, deadpool and logan. getting awards nom for merit.everyone cheered real marvel and dc fans. did not matter whose film it was. MCU fans only have to pretend they like logan and deadpool and TDK.
But remember even the garbage kids mcu comedies wont get any oscars above the likes of DOFP, Spiderman 2, Batman Begins. hey, remember your idotic attacks on james cameron? he won 3 in one night for merit.
the world cheered because titanic was one hell of a ground breaking spectacular movie both in story telling and cgi. somthing no MCU movie is.
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Post by summers8 on Dec 14, 2018 19:24:10 GMT
no, I can easily compare bp to other mcu films, and know for a fact that it ranks in middle of quality of mcu, better films got no recognition. The other oscar films are not part of a franchise, so I have no argument Have you been hanging out with Summers8? You can prove the quality of a movie as a fact? I'd love to see you prove it as a fact. So lets see the Objective Evidence of the quality of a movie so it can be proven. do u know why u are wrong on logan. if it was hugh last performance, huge will have gotten a nomination for best actor. but logan was for best screenplay and that is the second most important category for the overall film in merit after best picture. I repeat overall film not just one acting nom or a director nom.
also remember partick stewart was a stronger contender than hugh.
also good thing you think it is for hugh since realistic the hugh xmen movies (X2, DOFP) will stand a better chance than any mcu movies as long as it is for merit.
hugh or let me say xmen movies were more serious, grounded and drama driven with deep themes. the oscars loves that over the fun cgi jokey mcu movies the oscar wont like. in a way for xmen it was ovedue. when you open a scene to your first film like this
naturally this will make the oscars care if they were to nominated any CBM..on merit. not disney race baiting or the media trying to make it happen since the media is bias to the mcu.
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Post by ThatGuy on Dec 14, 2018 19:39:31 GMT
The people that love Black Panther love it because of it's cultural significance.
The funny thing about this guy is that he is so delusional that he thinks because a person likes the MCU they can't possibly like anything outside of it. Even when we keep saying we liked Logan, Deadpool 1 & 2 and Wonder Woman from the recent crop of non-MCU movies. For his narrative he has to ignore it and say we are lying.
The oscars are not about cultural significance. they are about awarding what is the best. poor mcu. look at how much your movies have destroyed cinema? all this awards recognition BP is getting and people are laughing and cringing. MCU fans cant even brag about it because you mcu fans know it is based on a lie and the disney pr machine.
ah...dont we miss the days of tdk, deadpool and logan. getting awards nom for merit.everyone cheered real marvel and dc fans. did not matter whose film it was. MCU fans only have to pretend they like logan and deadpool and TDK.
But remember even the garbage kids mcu comedies wont get any oscars above the likes of DOFP, Spiderman 2, Batman Begins. hey, remember your idotic attacks on james cameron? he won 3 in one night for merit.
the world cheered because titanic was one hell of a ground breaking spectacular movie both in story telling and cgi. somthing no MCU movie is.
The days of Logan? Didn't that come out like 5 years ago? You make it sound like it was long ago.
And Cameron is still riding on Titanic. Just like Singer is still riding on The Usual Suspects.
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