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Post by MCDemuth on Jan 10, 2019 5:40:53 GMT
Also, Valerie Perrine's line "My mother lives in Hackensack" is delivered with vulnerable sadness. The idea of missiles heading for New Jersey could come across as hokey but they get a lot of dramatic suspense out of it with acting business and line delivery. I STILL don't understand that... Why THERE? OK...MAYBE, Lex doesn't like her mother... But how often do people get access to Missiles? "Lex Luthor, The Greatest Criminal Mind Of Our Time", SHOULD have come up with a better use for it... Otis, mis-programming the one missile? And that just happens to be Hackensack, NJ? Coincidence? I don't think so... For Comedic Effect? Perhaps... but that is a bit on the nose, isn't it? Maybe if Richard Lester had directed this film, But not Richard Donner... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2019 5:40:57 GMT
Well, I really enjoyed this one! A tremendously fun and suprisingly well made comic book movie. Truly one of the best.
This was fun. Hope you all at least got a bit of enjoyment out of this too. See you next time for Superman II
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jan 10, 2019 5:57:56 GMT
I STILL don't understand that... Why THERE? OK...MAYBE, Lex doesn't like her mother... But how often do people get access to Missiles? "Lex Luthor, The Greatest Criminal Mind Of Our Time", SHOULD have come up with a better use for it... Otis, mis-programming the one missile? And that just happens to be Hackensack, NJ? Coincidence? I don't think so... For Comedic Effect? Perhaps... but that is a bit on the nose, isn't it? Maybe if Richard Lester had directed this film, But not Richard Donner... We might assume he knew her mother lived there and didn't care.
I assume the screenwriters were just doing it as a joke--New Jersey being the butt of jokes--(I read somewhere someone who lived in Hackensack and when that scene played in the theater there everyone cheered). But it was also to give her some more character role and a reason to help Superman. She has a selfish motive--doesn't seem to care where the missiles hit otherwise.
Superman did happen to land in a field just as two farmer folk who wanted a child happened by--that was a major coincidence too! What if he landed near farmers who hated kids?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2019 10:06:10 GMT
Glad you got to see it, thanks for sharing!!
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Post by Nalkarj on Jan 10, 2019 15:21:46 GMT
Seconding @homergreg—glad you got to see it and liked it!
I like the goofy humor well enough, but I think Superman Returns manages to make Lex and company more menacing while continuing that kind of humor. With that said, Hackman’s Luthor remains one of my favorite movie villains.
As you noted, the time-travel at the end is rather a cheat (and cop-out), but it does provide the spectacular moment when Supes has to choose between Jor-El and Jonathan Kent, between god and man. For all of its superficial religiosity, Man of Steel gave us nothing like this. And I confess that as a kid I had a crush on Margot Kidder’s Lois Lane, so I wouldn’t have wanted to end on a cliffhanger with her.
What’s extraordinary is that even the flaws seem to add to this movie. “Can you read my mind?” is as goofy as anything, yet somehow the scene is one of the most romantic in the movies. The little moments—the cat Superman rescues from the tree, for example—make it seem warm, real, and human, and the action setpieces are more powerful and impressive by their sparsity and restraint.
Can’t wait to read your thoughts on II!
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Post by MCDemuth on Jan 10, 2019 16:16:46 GMT
Can’t wait to read your thoughts on II! Spoilers Below... As you noted, the time-travel at the end is rather a cheat (and cop-out), but it does provide the spectacular moment when Supes has to choose between Jor-El and Jonathan Kent, between god and man. It is even worse in...
Richard Donner's cut of Superman II...
In Superman I, Superman goes back in time because he can't live with Lois' Death...
But in Superman II, Superman just goes back in time, because he just randomly decides to do so. I think this makes him too powerful, and suggests that he can do this feat, at anytime. With that being the case... Why bother watching any Superman films, if there will be no consequences because at the end of the film, Superman will just undo it all...
As we see in Superman I, Superman using Time Travel is an extreme case.
It works for me.
And I confess that as a kid I had a crush on Margot Kidder’s Lois Lane, so I wouldn’t have wanted to end on a cliffhanger with her.I too had a crush... What do you mean by "cliffhanger"? Are you referring to Lois dying, and not getting saved?
In case you didn't know...
Lois was NOT suppose to originally die in Superman I...
Richard Donner originally shot Superman I and Superman II... at the same time... and Superman I was supposed to end in a Cliffhanger with Zod being freed... ONLY Superman II was going to feature Superman travelling back in time!... And Lois was alive in Superman II... So she could not have died!
When production of Superman II was shut down, to finish Superman I... it was then decided that the film should NOT end in a Cliffhanger... ONLY then, was the part with Lois dying, was added, as well as, Superman travelling back in time to save her.
When production of Superman II resumed with Richard Lester directing the rest of the film... The Time Travel ending was dropped, probably because they did that in Superman I... and then swapped it out for the Super-Kiss, and added the end scene with Superman flying the Flag to the White House.
“Can you read my mind?” is as goofy as anything, yet somehow the scene is one of the most romantic in the movies. Did you know that “Can you read my mind?” is actually a SONG, and that the original idea for that scene was to have Margot Kidder, SING, the song? Somewhere along the way, it was decided that she couldn't sing... I think Margot Kidder admitted that... and they just had her recite the lyrics instead. Goofy, perhaps... But, by just saying the lyrics, it is like we are hearing her inner thoughts. I think that is was makes it romantic... I think if she had sang it, it would have been too much, and the scene wouldn't have worked. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2019 17:55:37 GMT
Seconding @homergreg —glad you got to see it and liked it! I like the goofy humor well enough, but I think Superman Returns manages to make Lex and company more menacing while continuing that kind of humor. With that said, Hackman’s Luthor remains one of my favorite movie villains. As you noted, the time-travel at the end is rather a cheat (and cop-out), but it does provide the spectacular moment when Supes has to choose between Jor-El and Jonathan Kent, between god and man. For all of its superficial religiosity, Man of Steel gave us nothing like this. And I confess that as a kid I had a crush on Margot Kidder’s Lois Lane, so I wouldn’t have wanted to end on a cliffhanger with her. What’s extraordinary is that even the flaws seem to add to this movie. “Can you read my mind?” is as goofy as anything, yet somehow the scene is one of the most romantic in the movies. The little moments—the cat Superman rescues from the tree, for example—make it seem warm, real, and human, and the action setpieces are more powerful and impressive by their sparsity and restraint. Can’t wait to read your thoughts on II! I like the choice between Man and God. It was a nice surprise because I was beginning to think that he would just save the day and that would be that. So a crisis moment to complete his character arc was a big unexpected plus. MoS' crisis moment involved Superman having to choose between Earth and Krypton, but it didn't really land because it was never really much of a choice for him. Then they tried that second crisis moment with the killing of Zod and that we all know how that one was received... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2019 17:58:30 GMT
Does anyone happen to have a copy of a Justice League movie from an alternate universe featuring Reeves, Bale and Gadot? Because I want to see that movie!
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Post by Nalkarj on Jan 11, 2019 4:06:08 GMT
Can’t wait to read your thoughts on II! Spoilers Below... As you noted, the time-travel at the end is rather a cheat (and cop-out), but it does provide the spectacular moment when Supes has to choose between Jor-El and Jonathan Kent, between god and man. It is even worse in...
Richard Donner's cut of Superman II...
In Superman I, Superman goes back in time because he can't live with Lois' Death...
But in Superman II, Superman just goes back in time, because he just randomly decides to do so. I think this makes him too powerful, and suggests that he can do this feat, at anytime. With that being the case... Why bother watching any Superman films, if there will be no consequences because at the end of the film, Superman will just undo it all...
As we see in Superman I, Superman using Time Travel is an extreme case.
It works for me.
Not sure which version of Superman II I’ve seen, then. I thought it was the Donner cut, but I don’t remember the time travel again—was the Donner cut ever released on the same disk with the theatrical? I know. Yes, by “cliffhanger” I meant Lois’s death—audiences would have to know she’d come back somehow, making it a cliffhanger. Forgive the wording. To some degree, it would have made more sense to end with the Zod cliffhanger, as without it the Zod sequence doesn’t seem to make sense until you see the second one. Yes, and I agree, it wouldn’t have worked—though I think her readings are pretty lame in the scene as is. But it’s still impossibly romantic, despite the flaw. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2019 17:30:18 GMT
They should've just had Margot sing the lyrics to The Doors' "The Spy"
Lois: I'm a spyyyyyyyy... In the house of love... I know the dreams.... That you're dreaming of.
Great song.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 12:11:45 GMT
I love the first 2. Reeve was perfect in the role
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2019 1:23:58 GMT
I love the first 2. Reeve was perfect in the role You're a man of exquisite taste, Mr Ackbar |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2019 1:25:26 GMT
Nalkarj If you are still wondering which cut you saw... Do you remember an Eifle Tower scene at the beginning? From what I've read, this in the theatrical but not the Donner Cut.
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Post by Nalkarj on Jan 13, 2019 1:28:15 GMT
Nalkarj If you are still wondering which cut you saw... Do you remember an Eifle Tower scene at the beginning? From what I've read, this in the theatrical but not the Donner Cut. No Eiffel Tower... Just Niagara Falls, if that solves it, Mr. Holmes. Either way, I have to see the movie again. |
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Jan 13, 2019 1:29:49 GMT
Nalkarj If you are still wondering which cut you saw... Do you remember an Eifle Tower scene at the beginning? From what I've read, this in the theatrical but not the Donner Cut.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2019 18:38:59 GMT
So I watched the second one last night... Sorry, no live blog this time.
Thoughts:
For the first half hour I was concerned that I wouldn't like it. The tone seemed off and the Lex scenes were overly cartoonish. But then it picked up.
Every single scene with Zod was just fantastic.
Margot was still excellent as Lois. She really reminds me of both Leia from Star Wars and Marion from Indy. All three are great strong yet well rounded female characters that modern movies could really learn from.
I love the fact that Superman gives up his powers for her. Very Spiderman 2ish.
And that scene at the bar where a regular guy kicks his ass was really well played. I love how shocked and disturbed he is by his own blood. And it leads to another great crisis moment for the character: choose his own needs or the needs of the world.
The climax was exceptional as well. There was a lot of humor that perhaps was not needed, but I admit I was laughing out loud at all of it.
The only complaint was that amnesia kiss. Not only was it a total cop out, it came out of nowhere. When did he get the power to erase memory?
Anyway... Superman II is another classic! Just as good as the first!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2019 18:43:34 GMT
I also liked the sexual subtext of Superman's decision. Unless I misread things, he can't have sex unless he gives up his powers, right? I mean, that seems to be the real reason he has to choose. Otherwise, why can't he have it both ways?
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Jan 13, 2019 18:44:49 GMT
So I watched the second one last night... Sorry, no live blog this time. Thoughts: For the first half hour I was concerned that I wouldn't like it. The tone seemed off and the Lex scenes were overly cartoonish. But then it picked up. Every single scene with Zod was just fantastic. Margot was still excellent as Lois. She really reminds me of both Leia from Star Wars and Marion from Indy. All three are great strong yet well rounded female characters that modern movies could really learn from. I love the fact that Superman gives up his powers for her. Very Spiderman 2ish. And that scene at the bar where a regular guy kicks his ass was really well played. I love how shocked and disturbed he is by his own blood. And it leads to another great crisis moment for the character: choose his own needs or the needs of the world. The climax was exceptional as well. There was a lot of humor that perhaps was not needed, but I admit I was laughing out loud at all of it. The only complaint was that amnesia kiss. Not only was it a total cop out, it came out of nowhere. When did he get the power to erase memory? Anyway... Superman II is another classic! Just as good as the first! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2019 18:46:06 GMT
So I watched the second one last night... Sorry, no live blog this time. Thoughts: For the first half hour I was concerned that I wouldn't like it. The tone seemed off and the Lex scenes were overly cartoonish. But then it picked up. Every single scene with Zod was just fantastic. Margot was still excellent as Lois. She really reminds me of both Leia from Star Wars and Marion from Indy. All three are great strong yet well rounded female characters that modern movies could really learn from. I love the fact that Superman gives up his powers for her. Very Spiderman 2ish. And that scene at the bar where a regular guy kicks his ass was really well played. I love how shocked and disturbed he is by his own blood. And it leads to another great crisis moment for the character: choose his own needs or the needs of the world. The climax was exceptional as well. There was a lot of humor that perhaps was not needed, but I admit I was laughing out loud at all of it. The only complaint was that amnesia kiss. Not only was it a total cop out, it came out of nowhere. When did he get the power to erase memory? Anyway... Superman II is another classic! Just as good as the first! SHA-ZOD!!!!!@ |
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Jan 13, 2019 18:46:17 GMT
I also liked the sexual subtext of Superman's decision. Unless I misread things, he can't have sex unless he gives up his powers, right? I mean, that seems to be the real reason he has to choose. Otherwise, why can't he have it both ways?  |
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