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Post by Skaathar on Jan 24, 2019 20:36:09 GMT
I've felt this way since the first time I watched Batman Begins. For such great movies, expensive-looking movies, they sure had some cheap looking fight scenes. And it's not because Batman is simply fighting goons and untrained fighters. Even a real-world, average thug would probably move better than Batman in these movies. Batman in these fights always moves slow and robotic. Telegraphing his moves a mile away and being very stiff with his movements. See the Batman vs. Bane fight for a good example of this. I blame his suit, he probably can't move well in it. Still, what happens is that his opponents just stand there and wait for him to hit them, which makes the whole fight scene incredibly unrealistic. This is the rooftop fight with him and Catwoman. Forward to 0:45 to see what I mean: I missed the first clip from the post before. Hah, the fighter on the left. Did he slip on ice? For a second he looks dumbfounded, then you can see a shot of his feet not on the ground. Slightly baffling. I hope it's a blooper. That's so funny though.
I'm not going to pretend I didn't have an ulterior motive for asking if this was a recent revelation or old. I appreciate your answer, so in the interest of full disclosure, the reason I asked is when you said The Dark Knight trilogy fights are awful by reputation according to modern comic book films, my first thought was that yes, the fighting has been outdone, but the movie itself hasn't changed. It's the perpetual problem that I have with overrated and underrated as criticisms. The fighting in The Dark Knight movies is as it's always been, and nothing's changed except the world around it. I'm practically in love with the MCU martial arts and hard-hitting fighting, but it didn't occur to me to look at The Dark Knight in that particular new light. I would say it's been outdone, but I didn't think it was inadequate before and even the superior hand to hand combat in the MCU doesn't inspire me to retroactively downgrade The Dark Knight.
I feel a little damned if I do and damned if I don't, which is nobody's concern but mine. But on the first page, I agreed that I thought The Dark Knight car chase was better than that of Black Panther and I still got called to task for even the tiniest bit of credit I gave to Black Panther. The MCU works so delightfully for me because it's the sum of a large number of really strong parts. The Black Panther car chase, for me, is probably as good as any of them without being, in my opinion, better than The Dark Knight car chase. It's the little things, the identifiable stamps of a director that excite me as much as the rest of the story. Believe it or not, my favorite moment of The Dark Knight chase is the second and a half of silence in between the truck flipping over and landing on its back. That to me is a directorial decision and calculated use of silence for tension. I don't know how much of the chase in Black Panther had to be filled in, or shot somewhere other than the streets (Shuri's role in it) but I can't tell what parts of it were real. I'm not against CGI, but I will say that if the jackknifing truck and anything else in The Dark Knight was CGI too, I missed it. So in that sense, I never felt interrupted by my own brain.
I will say also that it's been a strange trend forever for henchmen to seem to wait their turn to fight, even in a many people vs one situation. That's fairly normal, not that normal necessarily equals good. I know Christopher Nolan specifically said he doesn't like it when a single gunshot near the gas tank blows up a car because it's unrealistic. I appreciate that, but I guess you cant win em all.
Well, the TDK fights were already pretty bad when they first came out. After all, even before Batman Begins we already had such movies as Toby's Spiderman movies, X2 and the Blade movies. All of which had far better fight scenes than the TDK trilogy. Then of course the MCU came out and doubled-down on making fight scenes look great and so the TDK trilogy's fight scenes now look even worse in retrospect. The choreography in the TDK trilogy look like they would have been at home in the early 90's.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Jan 24, 2019 21:28:37 GMT
Fight choreography is not a recent invention. You can't say TDK trilogy was in the early days of fight scenes and it has evolved since then. There was plenty of great fight choreography in movies long before TDK movies. The fight scenes in those movies were just very poorly executed. That's not for me, is it? I can't even fathom who needs to be told fight choreography stretches back further than 2005-ish.
If not, then I apologize, but if so, then that's just crazy talk.
Just a general comment.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2019 21:39:26 GMT
That's not for me, is it? I can't even fathom who needs to be told fight choreography stretches back further than 2005-ish.
If not, then I apologize, but if so, then that's just crazy talk.
Just a general comment. Sorry then.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2019 21:50:44 GMT
I missed the first clip from the post before. Hah, the fighter on the left. Did he slip on ice? For a second he looks dumbfounded, then you can see a shot of his feet not on the ground. Slightly baffling. I hope it's a blooper. That's so funny though.
I'm not going to pretend I didn't have an ulterior motive for asking if this was a recent revelation or old. I appreciate your answer, so in the interest of full disclosure, the reason I asked is when you said The Dark Knight trilogy fights are awful by reputation according to modern comic book films, my first thought was that yes, the fighting has been outdone, but the movie itself hasn't changed. It's the perpetual problem that I have with overrated and underrated as criticisms. The fighting in The Dark Knight movies is as it's always been, and nothing's changed except the world around it. I'm practically in love with the MCU martial arts and hard-hitting fighting, but it didn't occur to me to look at The Dark Knight in that particular new light. I would say it's been outdone, but I didn't think it was inadequate before and even the superior hand to hand combat in the MCU doesn't inspire me to retroactively downgrade The Dark Knight.
I feel a little damned if I do and damned if I don't, which is nobody's concern but mine. But on the first page, I agreed that I thought The Dark Knight car chase was better than that of Black Panther and I still got called to task for even the tiniest bit of credit I gave to Black Panther. The MCU works so delightfully for me because it's the sum of a large number of really strong parts. The Black Panther car chase, for me, is probably as good as any of them without being, in my opinion, better than The Dark Knight car chase. It's the little things, the identifiable stamps of a director that excite me as much as the rest of the story. Believe it or not, my favorite moment of The Dark Knight chase is the second and a half of silence in between the truck flipping over and landing on its back. That to me is a directorial decision and calculated use of silence for tension. I don't know how much of the chase in Black Panther had to be filled in, or shot somewhere other than the streets (Shuri's role in it) but I can't tell what parts of it were real. I'm not against CGI, but I will say that if the jackknifing truck and anything else in The Dark Knight was CGI too, I missed it. So in that sense, I never felt interrupted by my own brain.
I will say also that it's been a strange trend forever for henchmen to seem to wait their turn to fight, even in a many people vs one situation. That's fairly normal, not that normal necessarily equals good. I know Christopher Nolan specifically said he doesn't like it when a single gunshot near the gas tank blows up a car because it's unrealistic. I appreciate that, but I guess you cant win em all.
Well, the TDK fights were already pretty bad when they first came out. After all, even before Batman Begins we already had such movies as Toby's Spiderman movies, X2 and the Blade movies. All of which had far better fight scenes than the TDK trilogy. Then of course the MCU came out and doubled-down on making fight scenes look great and so the TDK trilogy's fight scenes now look even worse in retrospect. The choreography in the TDK trilogy look like they would have been at home in the early 90's. I hear that. I especially liked Spiderman vs Doc Oc fighting on the building/train. Whipping the clock hand back up the length of the building with his web, that was nice. Even when they were a building length apart, the fight still felt close range and personal.
Well, I guess Mr. Nolan some work to do if he wants to keep up.
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Post by Häns Haferflöcken on Jan 24, 2019 21:53:08 GMT
Oof! This is more of the McMarvel garbage film, ja? Ich thought it war for ze Pfefferkuchen! Ik war extreem enttäuscht der Pfefferkuchen.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2019 22:16:24 GMT
Oof! This is more of the McMarvel garbage film, ja? Ich thought it war for ze Pfefferkuchen, ja? Ik war extreem enttäuscht. Jawohl!
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Post by Nalkarj on Jan 25, 2019 0:27:16 GMT
Oof! This is more of the McMarvel garbage film, ja? Ich thought it war for ze Pfefferkuchen, ja? Ik war extreem enttäuscht. So you’ve changed your spots again, Clinty? You’ve got a better track-record than the leopard, that’s for sure.
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Post by summers8 on Jan 25, 2019 6:24:54 GMT
I missed the first clip from the post before. Hah, the fighter on the left. Did he slip on ice? For a second he looks dumbfounded, then you can see a shot of his feet not on the ground. Slightly baffling. I hope it's a blooper. That's so funny though.
I'm not going to pretend I didn't have an ulterior motive for asking if this was a recent revelation or old. I appreciate your answer, so in the interest of full disclosure, the reason I asked is when you said The Dark Knight trilogy fights are awful by reputation according to modern comic book films, my first thought was that yes, the fighting has been outdone, but the movie itself hasn't changed. It's the perpetual problem that I have with overrated and underrated as criticisms. The fighting in The Dark Knight movies is as it's always been, and nothing's changed except the world around it. I'm practically in love with the MCU martial arts and hard-hitting fighting, but it didn't occur to me to look at The Dark Knight in that particular new light. I would say it's been outdone, but I didn't think it was inadequate before and even the superior hand to hand combat in the MCU doesn't inspire me to retroactively downgrade The Dark Knight.
I feel a little damned if I do and damned if I don't, which is nobody's concern but mine. But on the first page, I agreed that I thought The Dark Knight car chase was better than that of Black Panther and I still got called to task for even the tiniest bit of credit I gave to Black Panther. The MCU works so delightfully for me because it's the sum of a large number of really strong parts. The Black Panther car chase, for me, is probably as good as any of them without being, in my opinion, better than The Dark Knight car chase. It's the little things, the identifiable stamps of a director that excite me as much as the rest of the story. Believe it or not, my favorite moment of The Dark Knight chase is the second and a half of silence in between the truck flipping over and landing on its back. That to me is a directorial decision and calculated use of silence for tension. I don't know how much of the chase in Black Panther had to be filled in, or shot somewhere other than the streets (Shuri's role in it) but I can't tell what parts of it were real. I'm not against CGI, but I will say that if the jackknifing truck and anything else in The Dark Knight was CGI too, I missed it. So in that sense, I never felt interrupted by my own brain.
I will say also that it's been a strange trend forever for henchmen to seem to wait their turn to fight, even in a many people vs one situation. That's fairly normal, not that normal necessarily equals good. I know Christopher Nolan specifically said he doesn't like it when a single gunshot near the gas tank blows up a car because it's unrealistic. I appreciate that, but I guess you cant win em all.
Well, the TDK fights were already pretty bad when they first came out. After all, even before Batman Begins we already had such movies as Toby's Spiderman movies, X2 and the Blade movies. All of which had far better fight scenes than the TDK trilogy. Then of course the MCU came out and doubled-down on making fight scenes look great and so the TDK trilogy's fight scenes now look even worse in retrospect. The choreography in the TDK trilogy look like they would have been at home in the early 90's. actually no TDK fight scenes are not bad, they are as realistic as you can get, that was the style nolan was going for. tdk is not avengers were people strike a pose after fight scenes.
black panther fight scenes are worse since the cgi was really bad.
lol..fight scenes to superior story telling, film editing and cinematography? really?
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Jan 25, 2019 8:10:32 GMT
Oof! This is more of the McMarvel garbage film, ja? Ich thought it war for ze Pfefferkuchen, ja? Ik war extreem enttäuscht. So you’ve changed your spots again, Clinty? You’ve got a better track-record than the leopard, that’s for sure. I'm confused... Clinton was Hans this whole time?
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Post by Nalkarj on Jan 25, 2019 15:55:28 GMT
So you’ve changed your spots again, Clinty? You’ve got a better track-record than the leopard, that’s for sure. I'm confused...
Clinton was Hans this whole time? Believe me, I’ve been this way since Clinty started here.
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Post by scabab on Jan 25, 2019 16:39:25 GMT
The Black Panther chase scene was good but it wasn't nearly as good as the one in The Dark Knight.
As for the fight scenes, the final CGI battle scene was...alright but then I would definitely say the Black Panther vs M'Baku and Killmonger fights during the ritual were much better than the fight scenes in The Dark Knight movies.
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Post by Skaathar on Jan 25, 2019 18:06:54 GMT
Well, the TDK fights were already pretty bad when they first came out. After all, even before Batman Begins we already had such movies as Toby's Spiderman movies, X2 and the Blade movies. All of which had far better fight scenes than the TDK trilogy. Then of course the MCU came out and doubled-down on making fight scenes look great and so the TDK trilogy's fight scenes now look even worse in retrospect. The choreography in the TDK trilogy look like they would have been at home in the early 90's. actually no TDK fight scenes are not bad, they are as realistic as you can get, that was the style nolan was going for. tdk is not avengers were people strike a pose after fight scenes.
black panther fight scenes are worse since the cgi was really bad.
lol..fight scenes to superior story telling, film editing and cinematography? really? Realistic you say? So I guess it's realistic that men in the middle of a fight magically fall down without ever getting hit?
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jan 25, 2019 22:22:29 GMT
Who cares? Just be happy that for the first time ever a superhero movie has received a BEST PICTURE nomination, it most likely will not win but even so this is nothing to write off for whatever reason(political or otherwise) and at the end of the day both BP and TDK are great movies, what one exceeds at the other doesn't does not make automatically bad or great.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jan 26, 2019 1:42:50 GMT
Who cares? Just be happy that for the first time ever a superhero movie has received a BEST PICTURE nomination Why should anyone be happy about a sham that's entirely due to racism? It would be like 2 students applying to Harvard. The 1st student has much better grades, much better test scores, much better recommendations, and a long list of achievements (e.g. class President, captain of the school's Academic Decathlon Team, etc.). The 2nd student has none of those qualifications, but the 2nd student is black so the 2nd student gets admitted because of "diversity". But that isn't "diversity". That's basically racism. And no one should be happy about racism. So why the fuck should anyone be happy about Black Panther getting a nomination solely because of racism?
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Post by justanaveragejoe on Jan 26, 2019 2:55:44 GMT
Who cares? Just be happy that for the first time ever a superhero movie has received a BEST PICTURE nomination Why should anyone be happy about a sham that's entirely due to racism? It would be like 2 students applying to Harvard. The 1st student has much better grades, much better test scores, much better recommendations, and a long list of achievements (e.g. class President, captain of the school's Academic Decathlon Team, etc.). The 2nd student has none of those qualifications, but the 2nd student is black so the 2nd student gets admitted because of "diversity". But that isn't "diversity". That's basically racism. And no one should be happy about racism. So why the fuck should anyone be happy about Black Panther getting a nomination solely because of racism? Because it's a comic book movie and we're comic book movie fans and should be proud of this achievement. And do you know how incredibly racist you sound? Basically you're upset because Black Panther, a comic book movie, was nominated for Best Picture (the first comic book movie to be awarded such a prestigious award) and thinks it shouldn't get nominated because it stars an all black cast? So if the movie was called White Panther and starred a Caucasian male and took place in America instead of Africa, you wouldn't be angry, right?
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Post by sostie on Jan 26, 2019 3:18:14 GMT
Who cares? Just be happy that for the first time ever a superhero movie has received a BEST PICTURE nomination Why should anyone be happy about a sham that's entirely due to racism? But that isn't "diversity". That's basically racism. And no one should be happy about racism. So why the fuck should anyone be happy about Black Panther getting a nomination solely because of racism? MCU Hate > Moral Outrage
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Post by DC-Fan on Jan 26, 2019 3:44:55 GMT
Why should anyone be happy about a sham that's entirely due to racism? It would be like 2 students applying to Harvard. The 1st student has much better grades, much better test scores, much better recommendations, and a long list of achievements (e.g. class President, captain of the school's Academic Decathlon Team, etc.). The 2nd student has none of those qualifications, but the 2nd student is black so the 2nd student gets admitted because of "diversity". But that isn't "diversity". That's basically racism. And no one should be happy about racism. So why the fuck should anyone be happy about Black Panther getting a nomination solely because of racism? Because it's a comic book movie and we're comic book movie fans and should be proud of this achievement. Racism isn't anything to be proud of. Even though I'm a minority myself, I've always been opposed to Affirmative Action because I want to be credited for my achievements based on merit and not simply be handed something based on solely on race. do you know how incredibly racist you sound? How is it racist to want achievements to be based on merit and not based solely on racism? you're upset because Black Panther, a comic book movie, was nominated for Best Picture (the first comic book movie to be awarded such a prestigious award) and thinks it shouldn't get nominated because it stars an all black cast? if the movie was called White Panther and starred a Caucasian male and took place in America instead of Africa, you wouldn't be angry, right? Black Panther shouldn't be nominated because it's not a good movie and the movie shamelessly and excessively uses racism throughout the entire movie.
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Post by merh on Jan 26, 2019 9:25:33 GMT
If great car chases are a criteria for the Oscars... then Baby Driver should’ve took home ALL the gold last year. the car chase was to show how tdk had a superior film making from sound editing, visual effects to cinematography. No. No. No. This is one of the scenes that ruins the movie for me because EVERYONE insists Nolan was going for realistic. Sorry As a chick who had a skirt get stuck in doors, etc, no. Forget I had hair past my waist & same issue. Stuff goes everywhere. That damned cape billowing out would get stuck in the tires of that cycle. It looks cool, but its not realistic so because fanboys tell me it's so real, it's become one of the things on my list of TDK problems. Like not scrubbing the makeup off for rhe mug shot. Like after using the excuse they left the makeup on was they didn't want him to get out on any sort of mistake the police made, Gordon allows a vigilante he doesn't know the identity of to interrogate the suspect?
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Post by Häns Haferflöcken on Jan 26, 2019 15:05:00 GMT
Oof! This is more of the McMarvel garbage film, ja? Ich thought it war for ze Pfefferkuchen, ja? Ik war extreem enttäuscht. So you’ve changed your spots again, Clinty? You’ve got a better track-record than the leopard, that’s for sure. Ja? Ich am nein großer Katzenmensch! But ve talk American here, ja. Ik do not know of der Clintygreener du speekst.
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Post by damngumby on Jan 26, 2019 15:48:58 GMT
It would be like 2 students applying to Harvard. The 1st student has much better grades, much better test scores, much better recommendations, and a long list of achievements (e.g. class President, captain of the school's Academic Decathlon Team, etc.). The 2nd student has none of those qualifications, but the 2nd student is black so the 2nd student gets admitted because of "diversity". Of course, in your example, BP would be the 1st student. It has much better grades (critical reviews), much better test scores (RT greatest superhero movie of all time), much better recomendations (reflected in the monster box office), and a long list of achievements (prestigeous film award nominations up the yin yang). You denying the qualifications of the 1st student, simply because he is black, makes you an Always Wrong racist.
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