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Post by Skaathar on Feb 10, 2019 23:01:44 GMT
Because he's only a highschool kid. You can't expect him to showcase issues like having to budget his salary or being late for work or having to manage his married life. You can't expect him to tackle adult issues when he's only in high school. Like I said in the OP, part of the problem might just be that I’m not a kid, but even if I was, I’m not sure I’d find Holland’s Peter Parker to be particularly relatable. You're looking at this from an adult's perspective, so obviously his issues will seem shallow to you. But for someone close to his age, his issues are definitely more relatable. Prom. Fitting in. Finding a date. Taking your algebra test. All of these are legit issues that highschool kids can relate to.
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 10, 2019 23:03:06 GMT
Because he's only a highschool kid. You can't expect him to showcase issues like having to budget his salary or being late for work or having to manage his married life. You can't expect him to tackle adult issues when he's only in high school. You're looking at this from an adult's perspective, so obviously his issues will seem shallow to you. But for someone close to his age, his issues are definitely more relatable. Obviously just speaking for myself, I had to budget my salary and worry about being late for work in high school. My family didn’t have that much money, and I was working for a town councilman and for the local newspaper. So did I. I was working two jobs ontop of my schooling. But that was not the norm. The average school kid normally doesn't have that problem.
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Post by Grabthar's Hammer on Feb 10, 2019 23:43:07 GMT
So you're saying he's not relatable because he seemed to have been living an average teenage life. It sounds like someone needs to have a pretty tough life before you consider it relatable. I wouldn’t call going to a fancy private school and being backed by one of the richest and most brilliant people in the world, to be an especially average life. Let’s put it this way, Tobey Maguire’s Peter Parker had financial problems to deal with, including the difficulty of holding a job. Tom Holland’s Peter Parker seems like he should pretty much be set for life, what with that Stark “internship” of his. It’s hard to compare Tobey because he played an adult Peter Parker living on his own since the second half of the first movie. He was also kind of living off his rich friend Harry. Also, Norman was a billionaire who took a particular fondness to Peter and offered to make a call to find him work. Peter didn’t accept it though, and I do love that scene where he says he can find his own work.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Feb 10, 2019 23:55:52 GMT
Being relatable isn't solely a measure of how closely your life resembles that of a hapless, Dickensian character.
In fact, the idea of so-called relatability has been profoundly overstated in the case of Marvel characters. I actually wish the term could be stricken from the conversation altogether. Very few Marvel characters are actually relatable when put under a microscope. No superhero is. That's not what we value them for anyway but, that's a diatribe for another post.
What makes Peter Parker relatable is not solely all in his social standing, else Marvel could have gotten by making all of their characters into working-class heroes with financial woes to corner the market on "relatability."
What makes Peter Parker relatable is that he makes mistakes. You can relate to that as a person if you've ever made one yourself. Peter also experiences loneliness and low self-esteem. He doubts himself and, frequently wonders if he is up to the task of being a superhero. He doesn't charge into every mission with supreme confidence.
Having a hot foster mom or wealthy benefactor isn't going to change who Peter is fundamentally. The real problem with Peter Parker in today's climate is that almost everything that made him an outcast in the 1960s is now desirable or even enviable.
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Post by Vassaggo on Feb 11, 2019 0:02:06 GMT
Being relatable isn't solely a measure of how closely your life resembles that of a hapless, Dickensian character. In fact, the idea of so-called relatability has been profoundly overstated in the case of Marvel characters. I actually wish the term could be stricken from the conversation altogether. Very few Marvel characters are actually relatable when put them under a microscope. No superhero is. That's not what we value them for anyway but, that's a diatribe for another post. What makes Peter Parker relatable is not solely all in his social standing, else Marvel could have gotten by making all of their characters into working-class heroes with financial woes to corner the market on "relatability." What makes Peter Parker relatable is that he makes mistakes. You can relate to that as a person if you've ever made one yourself. Peter also experiences loneliness and low self-esteem. He doubts himself frequently wondering if he is up to the task of being a superhero. He doesn't charge into every mission with supreme confidence. Having a hot foster mom or wealthy benefactor isn't going to change who Peter is fundamentally. The real problem with Peter Parker in today's climate is that almost everything that made him an outcast in the 1960s is now desirable and even enviable. One of the problems with not exploring the Uncle Ben death this time is the loss that he is the personification of Guilt. At least they haven't explored that in this iteration yet. To me a Peter is fighting the Guilt of Ben's death, the guilt of being physically superior to others, the guilt of not saving all, the guilt of "selfishly" wanting loved ones in his life, but doing what he does puts them in danger. As a kid growing up religious and of a split home guilt was a big thing for me until I grew up and shed most of it. That might just be a personal relating connection though.
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Post by DC-Fan on Feb 11, 2019 0:35:39 GMT
People always talk about how Spider-Man is one of the most relatable superheroes out there, given that he deals with a lot of struggles in his personal life, including personal income. As far as the MCU version of Spider-Man is concerned, however, I feel like that relatability is almost nonexistent. Granted, I’m not a high school student, so part of it might just be an age thing, but in terms of the MCU, Peter doesn’t seem to have it that rough. Sure, being a costumed vigilante is hardly an easy thing, but so far in the MCU, Peter seems to have plenty of things going for him. Now, obviously, Peter Parker being a genius has always been a part of his character. That’s how he was able to develop his web shooters. However, as far as the MCU is concerned, not only is Peter a genius like always, but he also goes to a prestigious tech school, as opposed to an ordinary high school. Right off the bat, that’s something that the average kid probably can’t relate to. Apart from the school he goes to, Peter also has the backing of one of the richest men in the world. This is pretty significant because now, instead of being a loner who occasionally teams up with other heroes, Tom Holland’s Spider-Man gets to have a billionaire genius as his personal benefactor and pseudo father figure. That just seems to severely diminish the idea that Peter is someone who has to do things on his own, and who has to deal with everyday human struggles. If you have Tony Stark as your personal backer, you’re pretty much set for life. Does anyone one else feel this way? This isn’t even me bashing the MCU, in case anyone was wondering. It was just something I thought was worth pointing out. You're correct. I've written several posts about this. In the original Spider-Man movies, Peter's boss is a jerk, Peter is struggling to keep up in school, Peter has relationship problems, and Aunt May is struggling to pay the mortgage. We can relate to that and we root for Peter because we've all experienced similar kind of problems at 1 time or another. But in SMH, Peter doesn't have to work, Peter is doing well in school (he's on the Academic Decathlon Team so he must have good grades to be on the team), Peter gets invited to parties and has a date to the Homecoming Dance with the girl of his dreams, and Aunt May gets free meals in restaurants. Add in the fact that Peter has the support of a billionaire. It's hard to relate to Peter because Peter's life in SMH is almost perfect.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Feb 11, 2019 0:39:48 GMT
Being relatable isn't solely a measure of how closely your life resembles that of a hapless, Dickensian character. In fact, the idea of so-called relatability has been profoundly overstated in the case of Marvel characters. I actually wish the term could be stricken from the conversation altogether. Very few Marvel characters are actually relatable when put them under a microscope. No superhero is. That's not what we value them for anyway but, that's a diatribe for another post. What makes Peter Parker relatable is not solely all in his social standing, else Marvel could have gotten by making all of their characters into working-class heroes with financial woes to corner the market on "relatability." What makes Peter Parker relatable is that he makes mistakes. You can relate to that as a person if you've ever made one yourself. Peter also experiences loneliness and low self-esteem. He doubts himself frequently wondering if he is up to the task of being a superhero. He doesn't charge into every mission with supreme confidence. Having a hot foster mom or wealthy benefactor isn't going to change who Peter is fundamentally. The real problem with Peter Parker in today's climate is that almost everything that made him an outcast in the 1960s is now desirable and even enviable. One of the problems with not exploring the Uncle Ben death this time is the loss that he is the personification of Guilt. At least they haven't explored that in this iteration yet. To me a Peter is fighting the Guilt of Ben's death, the guilt of being physically superior to others, the guilt of not saving all, the guilt of "selfishly" wanting loved ones in his life, but doing what he does puts them in danger. As a kid growing up religious and of a split home guilt was a big thing for me until I grew up and shed most of it. That might just be a personal relating connection though. I purposefully omitted guilt as a relatable attribute as I don't personally feel it is something everyone can relate too. I don't often feel guilt or remorse in my personal life. Guilt is also very closely associated with religion and that, in and of itself, is a bit of a slippery slope. Uncle Ben's death is undoubtedly a defining moment in Peter's life but, I've often wondered what it would be like for him to step out of the shadow of that event. Is Parker an innately moral person or is he just acting out of some need to avoid guilt and blame? I want to believe the former but, the mythology sets it up as the latter. His take on being a hero is, 'if I don't act and people get hurt or die, it's my fault.' That speaks to obligation and fear. I'd rather that Parker's morality be less deterministic and more a matter of free will.
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Post by DC-Fan on Feb 11, 2019 0:43:58 GMT
So... him living an average teenage life (before Stark) means he's not relatable? Sounds like you want the character to have an incredibly tough life before he becomes relatable. Peter (before Stark) isn't living an average teenage life. Peter is doing well in school (he's on the Academic Decathlon Team so he must be getting good grades to be on the team), doing well in his social life (getting invited to parties and having a date to the Homecoming Dance with the girl of his dreams), and has no financial problems (Aunt May not only can afford to send Peter to a private school but also gets free meals in restaurants). There's nothing average about Peter's life. Peter in SMH is living a pretty good life and doesn't have the many problems that averge people have and thus isn't relatable at all.
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Post by DC-Fan on Feb 11, 2019 0:47:53 GMT
Because Flash probably flunked the entrance exam. If the school was an expensive school, no one would make a comment about a student getting in just because he's rich... because it's assumed everyone is rich. So Flash's "richness" being mentioned is proof that someone with that kind of money isn't that common. Peter has superpowers, so anything that has to do with him being Spiderman is obviously not going to reflect the average kid's life. But everything about him being simple Peter Parker feels average. And Stark giving him the internship is a direct result of him having superpowers (i.e being Spiderman), not him being simple Peter Parker. Obviously I never suggested that Peter Parker has to live a dull and boring life in order to be relatable, but the thing that has made him relatable over the years is the struggles that he goes through in his personal life. He goes through very realistic and very human struggles on a regular basis. I don’t get any of that from Tom Holland’s Peter Parker. Agreed. In the original Spider-Man movies, Peter's boss is a jerk, Peter is struggling to keep up in school, Peter has relationship problems, and Aunt May is struggling to pay the mortgage. We can relate to that and we root for Peter because we've all experienced similar kind of problems at 1 time or another. But in SMH, Peter doesn't have to work, Peter is doing well in school (he's on the Academic Decathlon Team so he must have good grades to be on the team), Peter gets invited to parties and has a date to the Homecoming Dance with the girl of his dreams, and Aunt May gets free meals in restaurants. Add in the fact that Peter has the support of a billionaire. It's hard to relate to Peter because Peter's life in SMH is almost perfect.
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Post by DC-Fan on Feb 11, 2019 0:50:15 GMT
Obviously I never suggested that Peter Parker has to live a dull and boring life in order to be relatable, but the thing that has made him relatable over the years is the struggles that he goes through in his personal life. He goes through very realistic and very human struggles on a regular basis. I don’t get any of that from Tom Holland’s Peter Parker. Because he's only a highschool kid. You can't expect him to showcase issues like having to budget his salary or being late for work or having to manage his married life. You can't expect him to tackle adult issues when he's only in high school. You're looking at this from an adult's perspective, so obviously his issues will seem shallow to you. But for someone close to his age, his issues are definitely more relatable. And most high school kids struggle to keep up in school and/or have relationship/social problems. Peter has none of that. Peter is doing well in school (he's on the Academic Decathlon Team so he must be getting good grades to be on the team), gets invited to parties, and has a date for the Homecoming Dance with the girl of his dreams. It's hard to relate to Peter because Peter's life in SMH is almost perfect.
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Post by DC-Fan on Feb 11, 2019 0:53:47 GMT
Because he's only a highschool kid. You can't expect him to showcase issues like having to budget his salary or being late for work or having to manage his married life. You can't expect him to tackle adult issues when he's only in high school. You're looking at this from an adult's perspective, so obviously his issues will seem shallow to you. But for someone close to his age, his issues are definitely more relatable. Obviously just speaking for myself, I had to budget my salary and worry about being late for work in high school. My family didn’t have that much money, and I was working for a town councilman and for the local newspaper. Aside from the financial difficulties you had that Peter in SMH doesn't have, did you also have excellent grades in all your classes (like Peter in SMH obviously has since he's on the Academic Decathlon Team s he must have excellent grades in all his classes to be on the team) and did you also get invited to parties and have a date for the Homecoming Dance with the girl of your dreams (like Peter in SMH had)? Seems that Peter in SMH isn't very relatable at all.
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Post by DC-Fan on Feb 11, 2019 0:58:09 GMT
Peter in SMH gets invited to parties. Peter in SMH has a date to the Homecoming Dance with the girl of his dreams. Taking your algebra test. Peter is on the Academic Decathlon Team so he must be getting good grades in all his classes. All of these are legit issues that highschool kids can relate to. How exactly does Peter have any issues that high school kids can relate to? Most high school kids don't have a date to a school dance with the person they have a crush on and most high school kids don't have excellent grades in all of their classes. There's nothing relatable about Peter in SMH.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Feb 11, 2019 1:00:44 GMT
I miss Tobey Peter Parker. He was perfect the way he is and wasn't a hipster douchebag like Andrew Garfield or an Avenger like Holland.
#Bringbacktobey!
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 11, 2019 2:11:58 GMT
So... him living an average teenage life (before Stark) means he's not relatable? Sounds like you want the character to have an incredibly tough life before he becomes relatable. Peter (before Stark) isn't living an average teenage life. Peter is doing well in school (he's on the Academic Decathlon Team so he must be getting good grades to be on the team), doing well in his social life (getting invited to parties and having a date to the Homecoming Dance with the girl of his dreams), and has no financial problems (Aunt May not only can afford to send Peter to a private school but also gets free meals in restaurants). There's nothing average about Peter's life. Peter in SMH is living a pretty good life and doesn't have the many problems that averge people have and thus isn't relatable at all. So being part of a club is not part of an average teenage life? I'm pretty sure Peter met Stark before he went to the homecoming dance. Pretty sure he wouldn't be dumpster diving if they were well off. And if you read my previous posts, you'd know that there's no proof that he's actually going to a private school.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Feb 11, 2019 2:35:28 GMT
Peter (before Stark) isn't living an average teenage life. Peter is doing well in school (he's on the Academic Decathlon Team so he must be getting good grades to be on the team), doing well in his social life (getting invited to parties and having a date to the Homecoming Dance with the girl of his dreams), and has no financial problems (Aunt May not only can afford to send Peter to a private school but also gets free meals in restaurants). There's nothing average about Peter's life. Peter in SMH is living a pretty good life and doesn't have the many problems that averge people have and thus isn't relatable at all. So being part of a club is not part of an average teenage life? I'm pretty sure Peter met Stark before he went to the homecoming dance. Pretty sure he wouldn't be dumpster diving if they were well off. And if you read my previous posts, you'd know that there's no proof that he's actually going to a private school. Midtown Science aka Midtown High aka Midtown Science High School is a Magnet school. A Magnet school functions similarly to a public school with the exception that it is designed to draw a diverse student body from outside of its designated zone (as opposed to restricting its population to students who live nearby). Magnet schools receive additional funding for their specialized instruction and programs. Given the diversity of the students who attend MH in Homecoming, it makes sense that it is a Magnet school. A Magnet school isn't necessarily designed around the concept of exclusivity so much as it is designed around diversity and specialization.
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 11, 2019 3:13:03 GMT
So being part of a club is not part of an average teenage life? I'm pretty sure Peter met Stark before he went to the homecoming dance. Pretty sure he wouldn't be dumpster diving if they were well off. And if you read my previous posts, you'd know that there's no proof that he's actually going to a private school. Midtown Science aka Midtown High aka Midtown Science High School is a Magnet school. A Magnet school functions similarly to a public school with the exception that it is designed to draw a diverse student body from outside of its designated zone (as opposed to restricting its population to students who live nearby). Magnet schools receive additional funding for their specialized instruction and programs. Given the diversity of the students who attend MH in Homecoming, it makes sense that it is a Magnet school. A Magnet school isn't necessarily designed around the concept of exclusivity so much as it is designed around diversity and specialization. Is it an expensive school to get into or is it about as free as public school?
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Post by Lord Death Man on Feb 11, 2019 3:36:08 GMT
Midtown Science aka Midtown High aka Midtown Science High School is a Magnet school. A Magnet school functions similarly to a public school with the exception that it is designed to draw a diverse student body from outside of its designated zone (as opposed to restricting its population to students who live nearby). Magnet schools receive additional funding for their specialized instruction and programs. Given the diversity of the students who attend MH in Homecoming, it makes sense that it is a Magnet school. A Magnet school isn't necessarily designed around the concept of exclusivity so much as it is designed around diversity and specialization. Is it an expensive school to get into or is it about as free as public school? Magnet schools are generally free to attend. That said, I'm told that they do ask for fees to cover certain types of lab usage. The charges are somewhere in the neighborhood of a few hundred dollars per semester. So, while not 100% free, the cost is still negligible when compared to a private school.
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Post by Vassaggo on Feb 11, 2019 4:09:50 GMT
Is it an expensive school to get into or is it about as free as public school? Magnet schools are generally free to attend. That said, I'm told that they do ask for fees to cover certain types of lab usage. The charges are somewhere in the neighborhood of a few hundred dollars per semester. So, while not 100% free, the cost is still negligible when compared to a private school. My Niece goes to a STEM magnet school in NC. The Fee's are Parental Income dependent. I don't know if that's Nationwide though. The school is also good about raising money for the lower income families so their kid's experiences is the same as the Middle to Upper Income families. Making sure to cover the khaki/polo shirt "uniforms", Graphing Calculators, Drafting Equipment that can be taken home that kind of thing.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Feb 11, 2019 4:19:25 GMT
Magnet schools are generally free to attend. That said, I'm told that they do ask for fees to cover certain types of lab usage. The charges are somewhere in the neighborhood of a few hundred dollars per semester. So, while not 100% free, the cost is still negligible when compared to a private school. My Niece goes to a STEM magnet school in NC. The Fee's are Parental Income dependent. I don't know if that's Nationwide though. The school is also good about raising money for the lower income families so their kid's experiences is the same as the Middle to Upper Income families. Making sure to cover the khaki/polo shirt "uniforms", Graphing Calculators, Drafting Equipment that can be taken home that kind of thing. I attended a magnet school in NY. To the best of my recollection, it was tuition-free. That said, I was never aware of any bills or fees outside of lab/studio usage, uniforms, school trips and some ancillary cost around transportation. I was driven to school in the morning but, was tasked with making my way home after school on my own.
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Post by Vassaggo on Feb 11, 2019 4:26:09 GMT
My Niece goes to a STEM magnet school in NC. The Fee's are Parental Income dependent. I don't know if that's Nationwide though. The school is also good about raising money for the lower income families so their kid's experiences is the same as the Middle to Upper Income families. Making sure to cover the khaki/polo shirt "uniforms", Graphing Calculators, Drafting Equipment that can be taken home that kind of thing. I attended a magnet school in NY. To the best of my recollection, it was tuition-free. That said, I was never aware of any bills or fees outside of lab/studio usage, uniforms, school trips and some ancillary cost around transportation. I was driven to school in the morning but, was tasked with making my way home after school on my own. They have a bill at the beginning of the year for most of the known costs that my Sis has to pay like a Month before. (Everything but the Trips. Those are done if and when they occur). I heard my Asshole Brother in Law bitch about other parents not having to pay it. He's a tightwad that makes 6 figures, but bitches that the family that makes below the poverty line doesn't have to write that check. He's a WAFFLE. Edit: Also my sis has been with the same Loan service company since she was 15 (she started as an intern) and she's 49. She ain't doing bad either.
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