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Post by President Ackbar™ on Feb 11, 2019 6:05:55 GMT
What is it? It doesn't load on my screen...
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Post by DC-Fan on Feb 11, 2019 6:08:51 GMT
The more I think about SMH, the more I reconsider my initially favorable thoughts on it. I was mostly blown away by Michael Keaton’s performance and (related) the twist and the ensuing suspense scene in the car—and I think both aspects are still very well-done. But I don’t like the movie’s version of Spider-Man, and the points raised in this thread explain why perfectly. Agreed. I wrote several posts about this when SMH was released. Maguire's Peter Parker had a lot more problems to deal with and most people have experienced similar problems at 1 time or another so Maguire's Peter Parker is much more relatable and we can emphathize with Maguire's Peter Parker. Holland's Peter Parker basically has an almost perfect life and zero problems to deal so Holland's Peter Parker isn't relatable at all. Moreover, while Maguire's Peter Parker always felt as though he had to carry the weight of the entire city on his shoulders, Holland's Peter Parker doesn't feel that he has any "great responsbility" and acts like a spoiled, arrogant brat whose only motivation for being a hero is to show off and try to impress an egostical billionaire. As for the car scene with Michael Keaton, while that was the best (and only good) scene in SMH, it was still far below these 2 great scenes in the original Spider-Man movies: 1. When Spider-Man catches up to the thief who shot Uncle Ben in the warehouse and Spider-Man sees the thief's face for the 1st time and realizes it's the same thief he let get away earlier. 2. When Peter finally confesses to Aunt May that he lied about going to the library the night that Uncle Ben was killed. I recently saw Spider-Man 2 again and thought it was as fantastic as ever. My favorite is still probably the original Superman, which I’ve loved from the first time I saw it as a kid. (I’m happy I’ve now seen Star Wars, but I wish I would have gotten to enjoy it as a kid, when I got to see Indy and Superman.) But Spider-Man 2 is right up there—probably my next favorite superhero movie. My favorites (in order of release date) are: Superman: The Movie Superman II Spider-Man Spider-Man 2 The Dark Knight Wonder Woman Those are the Mt. Rushmore of superheroes and those movies are definitely the best superhero movies ever made.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Feb 11, 2019 6:09:48 GMT
So he basically gives up his normal life as a teenager to be a superhero? I think that's a bit of an understatement, but... Yeah. Basically. Okay, that's all I needed to know, thanks.
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Post by Nalkarj on Feb 11, 2019 6:16:05 GMT
The more I think about SMH, the more I reconsider my initially favorable thoughts on it. I was mostly blown away by Michael Keaton’s performance and (related) the twist and the ensuing suspense scene in the car—and I think both aspects are still very well-done. But I don’t like the movie’s version of Spider-Man, and the points raised in this thread explain why perfectly. … I recently saw Spider-Man 2 again and thought it was as fantastic as ever. My favorite is still probably the original Superman, which I’ve loved from the first time I saw it as a kid. (I’m happy I’ve now seen Star Wars, but I wish I would have gotten to enjoy it as a kid, when I got to see Indy and Superman.) But Spider-Man 2 is right up there—probably my next favorite superhero movie. My favorites (in order of release date) are: Superman: The Movie Superman II Spider-Man Spider-Man 2 The Dark Knight Wonder Woman Those are the Mt. Rushmore of superheroes and those movies are definitely the best superhero movies ever made. Hm. If I had to make a list of favorite live-action superhero movies, mine would probably be (in no particular order, except with Superman as number one)— Superman: The Movie
Spider-Man 2
The Rocketeer
Spider-Man
Batman Begins
Iron Man
Captain America: The Winter Soldier
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 6:18:53 GMT
I think that's a bit of an understatement, but... Yeah. Basically. Okay, that's all I needed to know, thanks. That's ... Ominous.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 6:20:36 GMT
The more I think about SMH, the more I reconsider my initially favorable thoughts on it. I was mostly blown away by Michael Keaton’s performance and (related) the twist and the ensuing suspense scene in the car—and I think both aspects are still very well-done. But I don’t like the movie’s version of Spider-Man, and the points raised in this thread explain why perfectly. Agreed. I wrote several posts about this when SMH was released. Maguire's Peter Parker had a lot more problems to deal with and most people have experienced similar problems at 1 time or another so Maguire's Peter Parker is much more relatable and we can emphathize with Maguire's Peter Parker. Holland's Peter Parker basically has an almost perfect life and zero problems to deal so Holland's Peter Parker isn't relatable at all. Moreover, while Maguire's Peter Parker always felt as though he had to carry the weight of the entire city on his shoulders, Holland's Peter Parker doesn't feel that he has any "great responsbility" and acts like a spoiled, arrogant brat whose only motivation for being a hero is to show off and try to impress an egostical billionaire. As for the car scene with Michael Keaton, while that was the best (and only good) scene in SMH, it was still far below these 2 great scenes in the original Spider-Man movies: 1. When Spider-Man catches up to the thief who shot Uncle Ben in the warehouse and Spider-Man sees the thief's face for the 1st time and realizes it's the same thief he let get away earlier. 2. When Peter finally confesses to Aunt May that he lied about going to the library the night that Uncle Ben was killed. I recently saw Spider-Man 2 again and thought it was as fantastic as ever. My favorite is still probably the original Superman, which I’ve loved from the first time I saw it as a kid. (I’m happy I’ve now seen Star Wars, but I wish I would have gotten to enjoy it as a kid, when I got to see Indy and Superman.) But Spider-Man 2 is right up there—probably my next favorite superhero movie. My favorites (in order of release date) are: Superman: The Movie Superman II Spider-Man Spider-Man 2 The Dark Knight Wonder Woman Those are the Mt. Rushmore of superheroes and those movies are definitely the best superhero movies ever made. In my opinion, Wonder Woman doesn't really belong amongst those others. Replace it with Batman Begins and you got yourself a list! Of course, I would personally add a few of the best MCU movies as well, but I don't expect you to do that.
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Post by Nalkarj on Feb 11, 2019 6:21:33 GMT
Okay, that's all I needed to know, thanks. That's ... Ominous. As usual with our resident skeleton.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 6:23:54 GMT
As usual with our resident skeleton. He's a hard one to read. I always feel like his posts could be interpreted in several wildly different ways.
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 11, 2019 8:22:52 GMT
To each his own. This was my favorite version of Peter Parker. Tobey was too dorky and not smart mouthy enough. Garfield was too cool and his humor seemed a bit mean. Holland seems a good middle ground. To each his own, definitely. I admit a possible bit of nostalgia, as I grew up with that first movie (my cousin and I probably watched it more than any other superhero flicks), but I recently saw Spider-Man 2 again and thought it was as fantastic as ever. Oh no doubt Spiderman 2 was a great movie. Still my favorite Spiderman movie. Just saying I didn't feel that Tobey's Peter Parker matched comic Peter Parker as well as Holland's does.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Feb 11, 2019 12:31:05 GMT
As usual with our resident skeleton. He's a hard one to read. I always feel like his posts could be interpreted in several wildly different ways. It's a sophomoric way of attempting to convey a depth of knowledge that doesn't exist. Anyway, Holland is absolutely awful. He's simply not Peter. He's Miles, and not the good one from Spiderverse who learned from the legit, straight-out-of-616 Peter. Too cute, too full of himself, too socially smart, too quippy in that cheesy Whedon way that's more Buffy Summers than scrappy kid from Queens, and totally unlikeable. Fuck that kid. He's not Peter.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Feb 11, 2019 16:51:16 GMT
I wasn't raised on a farm in Kansas so I can't relate to Superman I'm not a billionaire playboy whose parents were shot in front of him so I can't relate to Batman I'm not a lower middle class orphan from Queens so I can't relate to Spider-Man
Am I supposed to hate all of their movies because of this? The whole basis for this thread is idiotic.
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Post by Nalkarj on Feb 11, 2019 17:06:08 GMT
^^^I respectfully but steadfastly disagree, taylorfirst1. You can “relate” with a character without having had the exact same history as the character. Indeed, much of literature is based on this principle: the reader sees himself in the character. And it’s the central principle of all “outward-facing” film and literature, Star Wars and Indiana Jones being perhaps the most notable examples here. It also has nothing to do with “hating” the work, which is a rush to judgment that I know the OP and everyone else agreeing with him did not intend. You may think we’re wrong, but I can assure you we’re not “idiotic.”
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Feb 11, 2019 17:10:59 GMT
^^^I respectfully but steadfastly disagree, taylorfirst1 . You can “relate” with a character without having had the exact same history as the character. Indeed, much of literature is based on this principle: the reader sees himself in the character. And it’s the central principle of all “outward-facing” film and literature, Star Wars and Indiana Jones being perhaps the most notable examples here. It also has nothing to do with “hating” the work, which is a rush to judgment that I know the OP and everyone else agreeing with him did not intend. You may think we’re wrong, but I can assure you we’re not “idiotic.” My point exactly. We're mostly in agreement.
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Post by Nalkarj on Feb 11, 2019 17:17:53 GMT
^^^I respectfully but steadfastly disagree, taylorfirst1 . You can “relate” with a character without having had the exact same history as the character. Indeed, much of literature is based on this principle: the reader sees himself in the character. And it’s the central principle of all “outward-facing” film and literature, Star Wars and Indiana Jones being perhaps the most notable examples here. It also has nothing to do with “hating” the work, which is a rush to judgment that I know the OP and everyone else agreeing with him did not intend. You may think we’re wrong, but I can assure you we’re not “idiotic.” My point exactly. We're mostly in agreement. I’m not sure what we’re disagreeing over, then. So far, for me, it’s not that this Spidey is monetarily better-off or anything that makes me not “relate” with the character; it’s that, so far, there’s little he’s had to give up, sacrifice, or even realize so far—and this character, of all characters, is supposed to be the one who goes through realistic emotions and has to give so much up, stemming from Uncle Ben. Now, the MCU certainly has time to explore the character and describe what he’s learnt from the Uncle Ben story and from life. Just so far, though, the Tobey Maguire character achieved that for me, while the Andrew Garfield and Tom Holland characters did not.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Feb 11, 2019 17:34:04 GMT
My point exactly. We're mostly in agreement. I’m not sure what we’re disagreeing over, then. So far, for me, it’s not that this Spidey is monetarily better-off or anything that makes me not “relate” with the character; it’s that, so far, there’s little he’s had to give up, sacrifice, or even realize so far—and this character, of all characters, is supposed to be the one who goes through realistic emotions and has to give so much up, stemming from Uncle Ben. Now, the MCU certainly has time to explore the character and describe what he’s learnt from the Uncle Ben story and from life. Just so far, though, the Tobey Maguire character achieved that for me, while the Andrew Garfield and Tom Holland characters did not. Did you see Spiderverse? If so, what did you think of Peter in that?
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Post by Nalkarj on Feb 11, 2019 17:35:33 GMT
I’m not sure what we’re disagreeing over, then. So far, for me, it’s not that this Spidey is monetarily better-off or anything that makes me not “relate” with the character; it’s that, so far, there’s little he’s had to give up, sacrifice, or even realize so far—and this character, of all characters, is supposed to be the one who goes through realistic emotions and has to give so much up, stemming from Uncle Ben. Now, the MCU certainly has time to explore the character and describe what he’s learnt from the Uncle Ben story and from life. Just so far, though, the Tobey Maguire character achieved that for me, while the Andrew Garfield and Tom Holland characters did not. Did you see Spiderverse? If so, what did you think of Peter in that? I haven’t… Any good?
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Feb 11, 2019 17:43:55 GMT
Did you see Spiderverse? If so, what did you think of Peter in that? I haven’t… Any good? I like it a lot. And Peter in it is by far the closest to the (both Ultimate and 616) comic book character(s*), albeit the jaded older version. *I'mma refrain from further qualifying or clarifying this for the sake of not spoiling anything. But it's kinda like how Michael Keaton and Tobey are hands-down the best performers in their most famous roles, but there's still a gulf between them and the comic book version of Batman, whereas the classic 90s animated series? That's much closer, to me. Same for this with Peter. Shit, they managed to make me like Miles Morales -- and I used to consider him part of the Axis of Evil, along with Rey and Roman Reigns. (All got abysmal Mary Sue/Gary Stu pushes out of the gate that were too cute by two-thirds, but that's neither here nor there...) I was rooting for the dude by the end. So, yeah. In terms of mark-out or member berry factor, I enjoyed Spiderverse more than any MCU movie I've seen.
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 11, 2019 17:44:55 GMT
My point exactly. We're mostly in agreement. I’m not sure what we’re disagreeing over, then. So far, for me, it’s not that this Spidey is monetarily better-off or anything that makes me not “relate” with the character; it’s that, so far, there’s little he’s had to give up, sacrifice, or even realize so far—and this character, of all characters, is supposed to be the one who goes through realistic emotions and has to give so much up, stemming from Uncle Ben. Now, the MCU certainly has time to explore the character and describe what he’s learnt from the Uncle Ben story and from life. Just so far, though, the Tobey Maguire character achieved that for me, while the Andrew Garfield and Tom Holland characters did not. I believe Taylorfirst was just being sarcastic with his post.
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Post by Nalkarj on Feb 11, 2019 17:53:58 GMT
I’m not sure what we’re disagreeing over, then. So far, for me, it’s not that this Spidey is monetarily better-off or anything that makes me not “relate” with the character; it’s that, so far, there’s little he’s had to give up, sacrifice, or even realize so far—and this character, of all characters, is supposed to be the one who goes through realistic emotions and has to give so much up, stemming from Uncle Ben. Now, the MCU certainly has time to explore the character and describe what he’s learnt from the Uncle Ben story and from life. Just so far, though, the Tobey Maguire character achieved that for me, while the Andrew Garfield and Tom Holland characters did not. I believe Taylorfirst was just being sarcastic with his post. Ah. In that case I apologize for not picking up on the sarcasm, taylorfirst1. My mistake.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Feb 11, 2019 17:56:08 GMT
I believe Taylorfirst was just being sarcastic with his post. Ah. In that case I apologize for not picking up on the sarcasm, taylorfirst1 . My mistake. U iZ DUM!
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