Mr Ackbar Reads Batman comics

Yes, but Long Hollow Victory is also a sequel to Dark Night Halloween ( it takes place the next morning )

Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned. What is my penance?

I actually finished it, @forceghostackbar . And I’ll definitely say that it’s a lot better than the movie—leaps and bounds better. Some comments:

1. Thematically, the biggest difference is the focus. In the movie, Snyder and his writers attempt to present us with this philosophical dilemma of killing millions in order to save billions, as if we’re fools and have never heard of it before. It’s not only basic utilitarianism, it’s also one of those basic philosophical questions everyone’s probably heard of. (“So, if I can push a button and either save my brother Joe or save a million people, which one…?”)

Moore’s point is much smaller, which results in a stronger theme: he’s not presenting us with amateur philosophy hour in an unconvincing attempt to look intelligent, he’s deconstructing the concept of the superhero. By narrowing the focus, he writes something interesting rather than faux-philosophical. In the movie, Owlman, or whatever his name is, is still mad at Adrian for killing all those people—he’s as aghast as the audience is supposed to be. In the book, he’s mad at first but, like the rest of them, eventually comes to the conclusion that it’s for the greater good.

In other words, he’s serving as a superhero, saving people, but by countenancing a bad thing. Ultimately the heroes, by their very heroism, are forced to be bad and call it good. It’s not Adrian’s utilitarianism that’s Moore’s point; it’s everyone else’s willingness to go along with it (except Rorschach, of course).

2. The characters all seem more likeable for some weird reason. They’re not better or worse than their movie counterparts, but maybe it’s the more fleshed-out characterization or something? Even Dr. Manhattan, whom I found dull with his attempts at philosophizing in the movie, is here more human (relatively) and genuinely thoughtful. And I was actually interested in Owlman’s romance with the girl. And the art, mostly bright and colorful, contrasts with the events, no doubt on purpose, which is a nice touch, especially compared with the movie’s darkness and dolor.

3. Speaking of that, the tone is much better. Both kind of wallow in gloom and despair, but the movie combines that with violence, gore, and, in some ways, hatred for its audience, as if it’s daring the audience to stay. (Key example of the difference: the scene in which the one bad guys saws through the other guy’s arms. It tells you instantly that this is a movie made by brutish idiots pretending to be smart. It also does not exist in the book.) If the book is an anti-superhero-story, the movie is an anti-movie, and that’s the difference.

4. In both, the villain’s fairly obvious from the get-go, but somehow he’s even more obvious in the movie. Speaking of him, he’s far more sympathetic in the book, in which he can hardly be called a villain at all, especially as everyone else (again, except Rorschach) ends up agreeing with him. He thinks of himself as a hero, and he brings about world peace. All of this is just portrayed better in the book. He still gets too little time “on-screen,” though.

5. Rorschach is completely loony, of course, but somehow he too is more likeable, maybe because Moore isn’t trying to make him likeable. It’s weird.

Bad points? I still didn’t love it; this sort of thing isn’t exactly my cup of tea. I didn’t understand the pirate stuff at all, and it could and should have been excised entirely. The Dr. Manhattan-on-Mars sequences are still way too long, with his tedious dorm-room philosophizing. But on the whole it’s much better than the movie. I’m happy I read it, even if I didn’t think it was the be-all and end-all. (Moore likes his superhero deconstructions, doesn’t he? “Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?” is very close.)

Oh, I didn’t know you liked the movie, @forceghostackbar! Sorry about being so harsh on it. It was mostly the extreme violence that rubbed me the wrong way, that and how boring I found it. This, absolutely, and in it the death of the superhero archetype, because in a way, though they’re changed, their basic goal (heroism) has not changed. Even Adrian hasn’t really changed in that respect. Now that’s fascinating.

Complete agreement about the tone and characterization, and how they’re superior in the comic. The lack of preachiness is, as you say, unexpected and excellent. I hated the Comedian the most of any of them, but, you’re right, he’s the one who is actually going to stand in Adrian’s way, something no one else other than Rorschach is willing to do. Every characterization is nuanced and full.

Night Owl (not Owlman… Oops) is my favorite of the characters; I agree about the futility, and I just found it interesting how he rationalizes everything in the end. The scene in which he and his girlfriend rescue the people from the burning building, while the world’s on the brink of nuclear war, was my favorite scene in both movie and comic. The subversion of his heroism (sort of) at the end is a powerful twist of the knife that’s lacking in the movie.

Has Moore ever explained the pirate thing? I got that pirate comics were supposed to supplant superhero comics because superheroes were real, but.. What’s the point?

I was mixed on the alien. It looks stupid, a giant octopus thing lying there on top of Manhattan, but it actually makes more sense for Adrian to have done that instead of the explosions. In both versions he says he’s not a “Republic serial villain” (or whatever they changed it to in the movie), but in the book he’s actually concerned with how many people he kills and all that. He kills half of New York with his clone-alien-psychic-thingamajig; his goal in both is not to kill to bring about world peace but rather to create a common threat to bring about world peace, but as is its wont the movie doesn’t get this and overdoes it (with him killing people all over the world in the explosions).

After I saw the movie and was reading about the comic, I learned (thanks, Wikipedia) that he was borrowing from The Outer Limits there. I think that works, though Robert Culp’s alien looked better ( ), but perhaps it didn’t need all the complicated babble about what Adrian did to the guy. It’s not really necessary.