|
Post by miike80 on Apr 24, 2017 7:51:58 GMT
Rogue one easily
|
|
lightseeker86
New Member
One does what one is; one becomes what one does. ~Robert von Musil, Kleine Prosa
@lightseeker86
Posts: 34
Likes: 16
|
Post by lightseeker86 on May 28, 2017 23:28:47 GMT
Rogue One became what Force Awakens should have been. Force Awakens was similar to Prometheus in terms of disappointment, could have added something new in a talented way only to fall horribly short. Rogue One felt fresh and exciting while Force Awakens felt like "been there done that." The youtube channel Dorkly covered it quite well in my opinion, in the short skit video they showed comparisons of the rehashed characters, I'll leave a link for you to watch. 6 Star Wars Characters Meet Their New Equivalents
|
|
pete8680
Sophomore
Yo!
@pete8680
Posts: 464
Likes: 448
|
Post by pete8680 on Jun 3, 2017 19:29:30 GMT
I almost left the theater after Trench Run 2.0. I was shocked that I got insulted by a SW movie! It was bad enough we got Uber Weapon 3.0 but then 2 blow it up THE SAME WAY! Another TRENCH RUN!
R1 restored my faith in the saga.
|
|
Surly
Sophomore
@surly
Posts: 913
Likes: 784
|
Post by Surly on Jun 3, 2017 20:48:24 GMT
TFA started out interesting then got boring. Rogue One started out boring then got interesting. But in the end Rogue One felt like real Star Wars. TFA just felt like a Disney movie trying too hard to look like OT Star Wars but clearly pretending to be.
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Jun 3, 2017 23:38:52 GMT
TFA started out interesting then got boring. Rogue One started out boring then got interesting. But in the end Rogue One felt like real Star Wars. TFA just felt like a Disney movie trying too hard to look like OT Star Wars but clearly pretending to be.
|
|
|
Post by moviebuffbrad on Jun 10, 2017 22:20:42 GMT
The Force Awakens. Yeah, it's a rehash of A New Hope, but so is Return of the Jedi. So is The Phantom Menace. Yet people act like TFA invented reusing plot beats. Isn't history repeating itself an actual theme in Star Wars?
I admire what Rogue One tried to do, but it failed for me. What I like about Star Wars more than anything (well, besides lightsabers) is the characters, and the ones in R1 were flat and boring.
|
|
Surly
Sophomore
@surly
Posts: 913
Likes: 784
|
Post by Surly on Jun 12, 2017 23:35:17 GMT
The Force Awakens. Yeah, it's a rehash of A New Hope, but so is Return of the Jedi. So is The Phantom Menace. Yet people act like TFA invented reusing plot beats. Isn't history repeating itself an actual theme in Star Wars? I admire what Rogue One tried to do, but it failed for me. What I like about Star Wars more than anything (well, besides lightsabers) is the characters, and the ones in R1 were flat and boring. Seriously, no other movie rehashed another movie to the level that TFA rehashed ANH in cinematic history! If you were okay with it that's fine but let's stop pretending TFA was standard SW rehash because it wasn't. ROTJ falls off considerably in rehash comparison. TPM much more so.
|
|
|
Post by moviebuffbrad on Jun 13, 2017 7:27:12 GMT
The Force Awakens. Yeah, it's a rehash of A New Hope, but so is Return of the Jedi. So is The Phantom Menace. Yet people act like TFA invented reusing plot beats. Isn't history repeating itself an actual theme in Star Wars? I admire what Rogue One tried to do, but it failed for me. What I like about Star Wars more than anything (well, besides lightsabers) is the characters, and the ones in R1 were flat and boring. Seriously, no other movie rehashed another movie to the level that TFA rehashed ANH in cinematic history! If you were okay with it that's fine but let's stop pretending TFA was standard SW rehash because it wasn't. ROTJ falls off considerably in rehash comparison. TPM much more so. Surly, you can't be serious. Biggest rehash in cinematic history? Tell me if this is A New Hope or The Phantom Menace: characters go on the run so they can get bad guy knowledge to good guy headquarters, ending up on a desert planet. There they meet a plucky young person that yearns to leave. A mentor is killed via lightsaber battle, the plucky young desert kid blows up a ship, and we end on a big celebration. ROTJ isn't as beat-by-beat as TPH and TFA (again, I think it's intentional that the first entries of each trilogy mirror each other), but still. Characters infiltrate bad guy layout to rescue someone, Luke's mentor dies, rebels are hauled up on a forest moon, there's a new Death Star, character we thought was a dick redeems himself by saving Luke, and we end on a big celebration.
|
|
ryboto
Sophomore
@ryboto
Posts: 776
Likes: 724
|
Post by ryboto on Jun 13, 2017 10:15:09 GMT
Seriously, no other movie rehashed another movie to the level that TFA rehashed ANH in cinematic history! If you were okay with it that's fine but let's stop pretending TFA was standard SW rehash because it wasn't. ROTJ falls off considerably in rehash comparison. TPM much more so. Surly, you can't be serious. Biggest rehash in cinematic history? Tell me if this is A New Hope or The Phantom Menace: characters go on the run so they can get bad guy knowledge to good guy headquarters, ending up on a desert planet. There they meet a plucky young person that yearns to leave. A mentor is killed via lightsaber battle, the plucky young desert kid blows up a ship, and we end on a big celebration. ROTJ isn't as beat-by-beat as TPH and TFA (again, I think it's intentional that the first entries of each trilogy mirror each other), but still. Characters infiltrate bad guy layout to rescue someone, Luke's mentor dies, rebels are hauled up on a forest moon, there's a new Death Star, character we thought was a dick redeems himself by saving Luke, and we end on a big celebration. I'm sorry, this is a laughable reach. TFA is so much more a blatant retread that I was guffaw-ing in real life as I watched it the first time. Sure, if you dumb down the other to very high level vague points, you can draw similarities with TPM and the OT, but with TFA it's even easier to do so. People can blame Lucas for retreading tropes, but he never did it on this level. He also never spoke directly to the audience through shit jokes that referenced another film. It's just garbage.
|
|
barkingbaphomet
Junior Member
all backlit and creepysmoking
@barkingbaphomet
Posts: 2,252
Likes: 1,006
|
Post by barkingbaphomet on Jun 13, 2017 11:21:03 GMT
Surly, you can't be serious.
|
|
|
Post by thisguy4000 on Jun 13, 2017 19:14:23 GMT
To be perfectly frank, even though TFA was by no means a masterpiece, I honestly would say that it was better than RO. RO didn't really leave any sort of impact on me. The characters were pretty bland, the story was nothing amazing, and even though people like to give TFA crap for rehashing things from the old movies for the sake of fanservice, I'd say that RO was also pretty guilty of that. Also, say what you want about Rey being a "Mary Sue" but she at least had personality. I can't really say the same for Jyn.
Really, the only thing I'd kind of have to give RO props for is the ending. Apart from that, it was really nothing special.
|
|
Surly
Sophomore
@surly
Posts: 913
Likes: 784
|
Post by Surly on Jun 13, 2017 19:45:12 GMT
Seriously, no other movie rehashed another movie to the level that TFA rehashed ANH in cinematic history! If you were okay with it that's fine but let's stop pretending TFA was standard SW rehash because it wasn't. ROTJ falls off considerably in rehash comparison. TPM much more so. Surly, you can't be serious. Biggest rehash in cinematic history? Tell me if this is A New Hope or The Phantom Menace: characters go on the run so they can get bad guy knowledge to good guy headquarters, ending up on a desert planet. There they meet a plucky young person that yearns to leave. A mentor is killed via lightsaber battle, the plucky young desert kid blows up a ship, and we end on a big celebration. ROTJ isn't as beat-by-beat as TPH and TFA (again, I think it's intentional that the first entries of each trilogy mirror each other), but still. Characters infiltrate bad guy layout to rescue someone, Luke's mentor dies, rebels are hauled up on a forest moon, there's a new Death Star, character we thought was a dick redeems himself by saving Luke, and we end on a big celebration. Surly I can. Let's compare the ANH rehash of TPM, ROTJ, and TFA: 1. Early on a good guy duo escape bad guy forces to get plot info to the good guy forces: TPM, TFA 2. They were on the bad guys ship which is orbiting a planet: TPM, TFA 3. They escape to the planet below: TPM, TFA 4. They crash land in a desert: TFA 5. They need to get to civilization on the planet: TPM, TFA 6. They have to trek across a desert to get to civilization: TFA 7. A droid is carrying secret plans that could decide the fate of the galaxy: TFA 8. The droid gets lost in the desert: TFA 9. The droid is eventually captured by salvager(s): TFA 10. The salvager is a dwarf alien: TFA 11. The alien dwarf is covered head to toe and speaks in a high pitched, fast dialect: TFA 12. The droid comes into ownership of a plucky young hero who will eventually leave the planet with it: TFA 13. The planet is entirely desert and it's economy is based on salvage: TPM, TFA, ROTJ 14. The planet is named Tattooine: TPM, ROTJ 15. 2 droids deliver a video message while there: ROTJ 16. The young native hero-to-be is a Force user: TPM, TFA, ROTJ 17: They wear a distinctive outfit that looks like a cross between khakis and a gi: TPM, TFA 18. The young desert hero gets around on/in a land speeder: TFA 19. The young desert hero is attacked by fully covered thugs: TFA 20. The young hero's home is attacked by Stormtroopers: TFA 21. It is burned, people die: TFA 22. They escape the desert planet on the Millennium Falcon: TFA 23. The young desert hero and company are almost killed and running from Stormtroopers when they board the Millennium Falcon: TFA 24. They form a team that includes Han and Chewbacca: TFA 25. Han has enemies in the crime world who want him captured or dead: TFA, ROTJ 26. There is a tracking device on the Millennium Falcon: TFA 27. A Jedi mentor helps the young desert hero leave Tattooine: TPM 28. There is a cantina and a business deal is being made there to secure a ship for travel: TFA 29. A cantina or lair full of many kinds of aliens: TFA, ROTJ 30. A bad guys base or lair is snuck into to rescue someone: TFA, ROTJ 31. The base is a Death Star: TFA 32. The heroes hide in the floor panels of the Millennium Falcon: TFA 33. The Millennium Falcon gets them in and out of the base: TFA 34. The female protagonist successfully resisted interrogation by Vader or a Vader wannabe: TFA 35. The young desert hero is impressed when he sees a queen/princess. He wants to help her cause succeed: TPM 36. The mentor of the desert hero dies: TPM, TFA, ROTJ 37. The mentor to the young desert hero is killed by a lightsaber: TPM, TFA 38. The killer is Darth Vader or emulates him: TFA 39. The mentor is a Force user and dies in a duel: TPM 40. A Vader wannabe/Vader senses the mentor's presence and is determined to find and kill him: TFA 41. The bad guys base is blown up on an attack mission of spaceships: TPM, TFA, ROTJ 42. The young desert hero delivers the kill shot: TPM 43. The droid delivers the plans to the good guys base: TFA 44. The mission is launched from Yavin 4 or a visual clone of it: TFA 45. From the Yavin 4 base or a visual clone of it: TFA 46. In a command center that's (mostly) Yavin 4 style: TFA 47. A planet that Leia called home was blown up by the Death Star: TFA 48. The space battle is almost exclusively between just X-wings and TIE fighters: TFA 49. A shield or tractor beam to the base must be disabled: TPM, TFA, ROTJ 50. They must fly through a corridor structure to the target: TFA, ROTJ 51. The corridor is a trench run lined with cannons too slow to shoot down X-wings: TFA 52. The Millennium Falcon helps in the space battle: ROTJ 53. A forest moon is involved: ROTJ 54. Luke is saved by someone who has a change of heart: ROTJ 55. A celebration ceremony honoring the heroes at the end of the movie: TPM, ROTJ
|
|
|
Post by moviebuffbrad on Jun 14, 2017 0:19:20 GMT
[George Lucas] also never spoke directly to the audience through shit jokes that referenced another film. You mean like: "Be careful who you mess with, Greedo. You'll come to regret it." "Why do I get the feeling you're gonna be the death of me?" "You don't want to sell me death sticks." "I don't want to sell you death sticks." Not to mention the literal shit jokes, like Jar Jar stepping in dung and being farted on. And calling the similarities I pointed out "vague" is just disingenuous.
|
|
|
Post by moviebuffbrad on Jun 14, 2017 1:22:08 GMT
Surly - that is a mix of good homework, fair points, and picking and choosing. You point out the heroes escape the desert planet on the millennium falcon, this of course differing greatly with the heroes escaping the desert planet on a nondescript Naboo ship.
There's also some nitpicking. The heroes in ANH and TFA get around in a land speeder!? I could make a similarly lengthy list comparing every minute detail between ANH and TPM if I had the time and inclination.
-the heroes are smuggling a royal figure -getting off Tatooine requires negotiation and deal making -end space battle features Anakin spinning
But that stuff is insignificant next to more forest moons, more Death Stars, and more Skywalkers being scooped out of the desert for Jedi training.
|
|
|
Post by Tristan's Journal on Jun 14, 2017 1:47:16 GMT
Seriously, no other movie rehashed another movie to the level that TFA rehashed ANH in cinematic history! If you were okay with it that's fine but let's stop pretending TFA was standard SW rehash because it wasn't. ROTJ falls off considerably in rehash comparison. TPM much more so. Surly, you can't be serious. Biggest rehash in cinematic history? Tell me if this is A New Hope or The Phantom Menace: characters go on the run so they can get bad guy knowledge to good guy headquarters, ending up on a desert planet. There they meet a plucky young person that yearns to leave. A mentor is killed via lightsaber battle, the plucky young desert kid blows up a ship, and we end on a big celebration. ROTJ isn't as beat-by-beat as TPH and TFA (again, I think it's intentional that the first entries of each trilogy mirror each other), but still. Characters infiltrate bad guy layout to rescue someone, Luke's mentor dies, rebels are hauled up on a forest moon, there's a new Death Star, character we thought was a dick redeems himself by saving Luke, and we end on a big celebration. my 2 cents: TFA copies approx 90% of ANH's plot beats, the rest is OT (father/son conflict, emperor etc) or former EU beats. TFA starts with the Jedi order being destroyed (again) by a masked former Skywalker Jedi traitor going dark side, opens with an stormtrooper attack to obtain a map hidden in a droid etc - we know the story since 77-83. Additionally, and equally important, the designs (repainted spaceships etc), world building and character are rehashed. Just a few examples on the knock-offs: - The Resistance was the Rebel Alliance 2.0 - The First Order was the Empire 2.0 - Rey was Luke 2.0 (and a bit of Han, Leia, R2 and C-3PO for good measure) - BB-8 was R2-D2 2.0 - Poe Dameron was Han Solo/Wedge Antilles 2.0 - Kylo Ren was Darth Vader 2.0 - Supreme Leader Snoke was Darth Sidious 2.0 - General Hux was Grand Moff Tarkin 2.0 - Captain Phasma was Boba Fett 2.0 - Maz Kanata was Yoda 2.0 - The Hosnian System was Alderaan 2.0 - Jakku was Tatooine 2.0 - Star Killer was Death Star 3.0 (or 3.5 if you count Ep 1) and Luke was/will be Obi-wan 2.0 A few plot beats: -Secret item put inside little droid - villain all in black with helmet which alters his voice - desert planet (read tatooine) - a young goody two shoes (wooden) hero(ine). - Galactic Empire = the First order - a moon battle station...with a weakness. - the emperor = Snoke - cantina scene...with musical band and an array of oddball creatures - a snow plant (hoth) - a forest plant (endor) - dog fight in the trenches of the moon battle station. - a wise elder (obi wan in a new hope but here the elder role divided up between Han and Maz. Filling in until Luke takes up the ObiWan mantle at the end). - sneaking into moon battle station - Wise elder giving his signature weapon to young protagonist. - A military group with the exact same outfits, gear, spaceships and base as the Rebelion. - A smug, arrogant, overly ambitious military leader with a British accent who is in charge of a moon station. - Scene where the Rebel leaders gather to look at the plans of the moon station and discuss a strategy to destroy it. - A scene where a pivotal planet is destroyed. There are serious "studies" into that, check out this classic entertaining one (legal POV) www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngg2uBK2j8sNow what about that Fallacy Insurance? I happen to know a good agent!
|
|
Surly
Sophomore
@surly
Posts: 913
Likes: 784
|
Post by Surly on Jun 14, 2017 2:29:36 GMT
Surly, you can't be serious. Biggest rehash in cinematic history? Tell me if this is A New Hope or The Phantom Menace: characters go on the run so they can get bad guy knowledge to good guy headquarters, ending up on a desert planet. There they meet a plucky young person that yearns to leave. A mentor is killed via lightsaber battle, the plucky young desert kid blows up a ship, and we end on a big celebration. ROTJ isn't as beat-by-beat as TPH and TFA (again, I think it's intentional that the first entries of each trilogy mirror each other), but still. Characters infiltrate bad guy layout to rescue someone, Luke's mentor dies, rebels are hauled up on a forest moon, there's a new Death Star, character we thought was a dick redeems himself by saving Luke, and we end on a big celebration. my 2 cents: TFA copies approx 90% of ANH's plot beats, the rest is OT (father/son conflict, emperor etc) or former EU beats. TFA starts with the Jedi order being destroyed (again) by a masked former Skywalker Jedi traitor going dark side, opens with an stormtrooper attack to obtain a map hidden in a droid etc - we know the story since 77-83. Additionally, and equally important, the designs (repainted spaceships etc), world building and character are rehashed. Just a few examples on the knock-offs: - The Resistance was the Rebel Alliance 2.0 - The First Order was the Empire 2.0 - Rey was Luke 2.0 (and a bit of Han, Leia, R2 and C-3PO for good measure) - BB-8 was R2-D2 2.0 - Poe Dameron was Han Solo/Wedge Antilles 2.0 - Kylo Ren was Darth Vader 2.0 - Supreme Leader Snoke was Darth Sidious 2.0 - General Hux was Grand Moff Tarkin 2.0 - Captain Phasma was Boba Fett 2.0 - Maz Kanata was Yoda 2.0 - The Hosnian System was Alderaan 2.0 - Jakku was Tatooine 2.0 - Star Killer was Death Star 3.0 (or 3.5 if you count Ep 1) and Luke was/will be Obi-wan 2.0 A few plot beats: -Secret item put inside little droid - villain all in black with helmet which alters his voice - desert planet (read tatooine) - a young goody two shoes (wooden) hero(ine). - Galactic Empire = the First order - a moon battle station...with a weakness. - the emperor = Snoke - cantina scene...with musical band and an array of oddball creatures - a snow plant (hoth) - a forest plant (endor) - dog fight in the trenches of the moon battle station. - a wise elder (obi wan in a new hope but here the elder role divided up between Han and Maz. Filling in until Luke takes up the ObiWan mantle at the end). - sneaking into moon battle station - Wise elder giving his signature weapon to young protagonist. - A military group with the exact same outfits, gear, spaceships and base as the Rebelion. - A smug, arrogant, overly ambitious military leader with a British accent who is in charge of a moon station. - Scene where the Rebel leaders gather to look at the plans of the moon station and discuss a strategy to destroy it. - A scene where a pivotal planet is destroyed. There are serious "studies" into that, check out this classic entertaining one (legal POV) www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngg2uBK2j8sNow what about that Fallacy Insurance? I happen to know a good agent! Yes sir! Well said! In addition to my list and your list, 2 more: - someone is sitting at the Millennium Falcon chess table when the game is turned on - someone mentions the Kessell Run record of the Millennium Falcon Both only happened in ANH and TFA. It's downright entertaining watching people try to invent arguments to try and equalize the rehash of other SW movies by comparison to the ANH/TFA rehash. Darn it's fun seeing people willfully commit themselves to denial.
|
|
|
Post by Tristan's Journal on Jun 14, 2017 2:43:57 GMT
Yes sir! Well said! In addition to my list and your list, 2 more: - someone is sitting at the Millennium Falcon chess table when the game is turned on - someone mentions the Kessell Run record of the Millennium Falcon Both only happened in ANH and TFA. It's downright entertaining watching people try to invent arguments to try and equalize the rehash of other SW movies by comparison to the ANH/TFA rehash. Darn it's fun seeing people willfully commit themselves to denial. TFA-fans should accept that denial is not just a river in Egypt. You may need a large dose of it to turn your brains off to enjoy TFA, but you owe it to your own humanity to at least admit the undeniable. Or evolutionary we are back to spanking those blind, deaf and mute monkeys...
|
|
Surly
Sophomore
@surly
Posts: 913
Likes: 784
|
Post by Surly on Jun 14, 2017 2:54:55 GMT
Surly - that is a mix of good homework, fair points, and picking and choosing. You point out the heroes escape the desert planet on the millennium falcon, this of course differing greatly with the heroes escaping the desert planet on a nondescript Naboo ship. There's also some nitpicking. The heroes in ANH and TFA get around in a land speeder!? I could make a similarly lengthy list comparing every minute detail between ANH and TPM if I had the time and inclination. -the heroes are smuggling a royal figure -getting off Tatooine requires negotiation and deal making -end space battle features Anakin spinning But that stuff is insignificant next to more forest moons, more Death Stars, and more Skywalkers being scooped out of the desert for Jedi training. Yeah, out all the points I brought out only about a dozen are generalized. I even included some of your comparisons you mentioned earlier. And truthfully half of those are generalized and open to the very criticism you brought up. For instance your "characters go on the run so they can get bad guy knowledge to good guy headquarters, they end up on a desert planet." First of all you could say that's true of ObiWan in AOTC when he is pursuing Jango. And secondly in TPM the characters have to leave a planet of a totally different environment before they get to this desert planet. That's not how things happen in ANH and TFA. - Anakin spinning in the space battle is bad example that can't compare to any of my references because his counterpart would be Luke, and Luke never spun in a space battle.
|
|
Surly
Sophomore
@surly
Posts: 913
Likes: 784
|
Post by Surly on Jun 14, 2017 3:04:20 GMT
Yes sir! Well said! In addition to my list and your list, 2 more: - someone is sitting at the Millennium Falcon chess table when the game is turned on - someone mentions the Kessell Run record of the Millennium Falcon Both only happened in ANH and TFA. It's downright entertaining watching people try to invent arguments to try and equalize the rehash of other SW movies by comparison to the ANH/TFA rehash. Darn it's fun seeing people willfully commit themselves to denial. TFA-fans should accept that denial is not just a river in Egypt. You may need a large dose of it to turn your brains off to enjoy TFA, but you owe it to your own humanity to at least admit the undeniable. Or evolutionary we are back to spanking those blind, deaf and mute monkeys... Lol! Well said. Lol!
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Jun 14, 2017 3:49:01 GMT
This "TFA is no worse than TPM and (lulz) Jedi in terms of ripping off ANH" business is some truly first-rate horseshit. But still: horseshit.
|
|