ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Jun 14, 2017 12:10:31 GMT
[George Lucas] also never spoke directly to the audience through shit jokes that referenced another film. You mean like: "Be careful who you mess with, Greedo. You'll come to regret it." "Why do I get the feeling you're gonna be the death of me?" "You don't want to sell me death sticks." "I don't want to sell you death sticks." Not to mention the literal shit jokes, like Jar Jar stepping in dung and being farted on. And calling the similarities I pointed out "vague" is just disingenuous. Garbage chute and trash compactor. Why does Han get so excited by that? It's uncharacteristic and just serves to remind the audience of the original scene. SOOOO many times more cringeworthy and awkward than anything you've quoted.
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Post by furiousstyles77 on Jun 14, 2017 13:26:23 GMT
You mean like: "Be careful who you mess with, Greedo. You'll come to regret it." "Why do I get the feeling you're gonna be the death of me?" "You don't want to sell me death sticks." "I don't want to sell you death sticks." Not to mention the literal shit jokes, like Jar Jar stepping in dung and being farted on. And calling the similarities I pointed out "vague" is just disingenuous. Garbage chute and trash compactor. Why does Han get so excited by that? It's uncharacteristic and just serves to remind the audience of the original scene. SOOOO many times more cringeworthy and awkward than anything you've quoted. if you think that then you truly are deluded , " your in big doo doo this time jar jar" vs "trash compactor?" which is more cringe worthy ? any sane person would say big doo doo
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Jun 14, 2017 13:34:18 GMT
Garbage chute and trash compactor. Why does Han get so excited by that? It's uncharacteristic and just serves to remind the audience of the original scene. SOOOO many times more cringeworthy and awkward than anything you've quoted. if you think that then you truly are deluded , " your in big doo doo this time jar jar" vs "trash compactor?" which is more cringe worthy ? any sane person would say big doo doo Any sane person would slap you upside the head and then lock you back in your padded cell and play TFA on repeat while you cackle with glee and scream Rey's name over and over again.
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Post by sostie on Jun 14, 2017 13:50:49 GMT
Rogue One. Second best after Empire (TFA 3rd or 4th)
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Post by furiousstyles77 on Jun 14, 2017 14:04:31 GMT
if you think that then you truly are deluded , " your in big doo doo this time jar jar" vs "trash compactor?" which is more cringe worthy ? any sane person would say big doo doo Any sane person would slap you upside the head and then lock you back in your padded cell and play TFA on repeat while you cackle with glee and scream Rey's name over and over again. TFA is superior to the prequel trilogy , you can't handle that fact
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ryboto
Sophomore
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@ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Jun 14, 2017 14:36:11 GMT
Garbage chute and trash compactor. Why does Han get so excited by that? It's uncharacteristic and just serves to remind the audience of the original scene. SOOOO many times more cringeworthy and awkward than anything you've quoted. if you think that then you truly are deluded , " your in big doo doo this time jar jar" vs "trash compactor?" which is more cringe worthy ? any sane person would say big doo doo A poop joke is idiotic, two even more so. But nodding to fans when it's out of character is worse. Had Han not been the one to deliver it, maybe then it would just be pandering, and not a direct nod/wink/justthetip.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Jun 14, 2017 15:08:44 GMT
Any sane person would slap you upside the head and then lock you back in your padded cell and play TFA on repeat while you cackle with glee and scream Rey's name over and over again. TFA is superior to the prequel trilogy , you can't handle that fact It's not a fact. And your posts aren't fun without the hate speech. You should cycle that back into your act.
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Post by furiousstyles77 on Jun 14, 2017 17:45:59 GMT
if you think that then you truly are deluded , " your in big doo doo this time jar jar" vs "trash compactor?" which is more cringe worthy ? any sane person would say big doo doo A poop joke is idiotic, two even more so. But nodding to fans when it's out of character is worse. Had Han not been the one to deliver it, maybe then it would just be pandering, and not a direct nod/wink/justthetip. so a nod to one of the greatest star wars films ever made is worse than a poop joke? holy fucking shit dude that prequel dick is so far up your ass its coming out of your mouth. what a glorious phaggot you are
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Post by furiousstyles77 on Jun 14, 2017 18:23:30 GMT
TFA is superior to the prequel trilogy , you can't handle that fact It's not a fact. And your posts aren't fun without the hate speech. You should cycle that back into your act. it is fact as alot more people like TFA , your like the phaggot that loves cock but hates being gay
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Jun 14, 2017 18:48:07 GMT
It's not a fact. And your posts aren't fun without the hate speech. You should cycle that back into your act. it is fact as alot more people like TFA , your like the phaggot that loves cock but hates being gay There we go. That's at least amusing. Thanks, buddy.
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Jun 14, 2017 19:21:41 GMT
A poop joke is idiotic, two even more so. But nodding to fans when it's out of character is worse. Had Han not been the one to deliver it, maybe then it would just be pandering, and not a direct nod/wink/justthetip. so a nod to one of the greatest star wars films ever made is worse than a poop joke? holy fucking shit dude that prequel dick is so far up your ass its coming out of your mouth. what a glorious phaggot you are Yes, unless you're Deadpool, blatant nods are worse than shit jokes. holy fucking shit dude that TFA dick is so far up your ass its coming out of your mouth. what a glorious phaggot you are
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detour
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Post by detour on Jun 14, 2017 20:52:14 GMT
The Force Awakens was better made and more stable as far as its balance of character, plot, and action. Rogue One, however, was a more Star Wars-esque movie when you really think about it. It pushed creativity (new planets, new characters, new droids) further than TFA. It pushed the limits of special effects much better (the ballsy use of CGI to recreate the faces of both a young Princess Leia and Tarkin from A New Hope era). It also presented us with a fresh story that was told from a few very cool perspectives. In essence, Rogue One challenged itself; TFA didn't. Star Wars was always about taking huge risks to see if they could possibly pay off. Rogue One paid off for me. You didn't think "THE FORCE AWAKENS" took a huge risk when they killed off Han Solo ? It was no risk. Everyone knows Harrison Ford wanted his character killed off in RotJ, which Lucas refused, fearing it would hurt toy sales (artistic integrity alert!). The only way the producers could convince Ford to reprise his role in TFA was to promise to kill the character off, once and for all. Any SW fan worth his salt knew that Han Solo was going to die in TFA, as soon as it was announced he was in it. The only shame is they sent him out in a pussy fashion.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Jun 15, 2017 5:20:27 GMT
my 2 cents: TFA copies approx 90% of ANH's plot beats, the rest is OT (father/son conflict, emperor etc) or former EU beats. TFA starts with the Jedi order being destroyed (again) by a masked former Skywalker Jedi traitor going dark side, opens with an stormtrooper attack to obtain a map hidden in a droid etc - we know the story since 77-83. Additionally, and equally important, the designs (repainted spaceships etc), world building and character are rehashed. Just a few examples on the knock-offs: - The Resistance was the Rebel Alliance 2.0 - The First Order was the Empire 2.0 - Rey was Luke 2.0 (and a bit of Han, Leia, R2 and C-3PO for good measure) - BB-8 was R2-D2 2.0 - Poe Dameron was Han Solo/Wedge Antilles 2.0 - Kylo Ren was Darth Vader 2.0 - Supreme Leader Snoke was Darth Sidious 2.0 - General Hux was Grand Moff Tarkin 2.0 - Captain Phasma was Boba Fett 2.0 - Maz Kanata was Yoda 2.0 - The Hosnian System was Alderaan 2.0 - Jakku was Tatooine 2.0 - Star Killer was Death Star 3.0 (or 3.5 if you count Ep 1) and Luke was/will be Obi-wan 2.0 A few plot beats: -Secret item put inside little droid - villain all in black with helmet which alters his voice - desert planet (read tatooine) - a young goody two shoes (wooden) hero(ine). - Galactic Empire = the First order - a moon battle station...with a weakness. - the emperor = Snoke - cantina scene...with musical band and an array of oddball creatures - a snow plant (hoth) - a forest plant (endor) - dog fight in the trenches of the moon battle station. - a wise elder (obi wan in a new hope but here the elder role divided up between Han and Maz. Filling in until Luke takes up the ObiWan mantle at the end). - sneaking into moon battle station - Wise elder giving his signature weapon to young protagonist. - A military group with the exact same outfits, gear, spaceships and base as the Rebelion. - A smug, arrogant, overly ambitious military leader with a British accent who is in charge of a moon station. - Scene where the Rebel leaders gather to look at the plans of the moon station and discuss a strategy to destroy it. - A scene where a pivotal planet is destroyed. There are serious "studies" into that, check out this classic entertaining one (legal POV) www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngg2uBK2j8sNow what about that Fallacy Insurance? I happen to know a good agent! I didn't even get into the stuff TPM cribbed from ROTJ, so much so that fans have developed a "Ring Theory" to explain the similarities. How about the good guys in TPM enlisting the help of annoying native creatures to battle? A father/father figure dying in a young Jedi's arms after the villain takes a trip down a shaft? The openings with a ship docking, the middles with high speed ground vehicle set pieces (speeder chase/podrace), and the climaxes with the interconnected lightsaber duels/ground battles/space battles? I don't see the correlation between Fett and Phasma myself, aside from "they both wear costumes". I also watched the video, and don't entirely disagree with anything stated, but do you think TPM would pass the test if Lucas wasn't involved? Video guy also brought up something I was gonna talk about: Finn. By your guys' admission, Finn and his storyline don't really compare to anything we've seen before. What new character or storyline does TPM really bring to the table? Qui-Gon - Ben Kenobi Anakin/Obi-Wan - Luke Padme - Leia Palpatine - himself Maul - Vader Nute Gunroy - Tarkin Jar Jar - Wicket Shmi - Aunt Beru Watto - Jabba Naboo - Alderan Coruscant - Los Angeles 2019 (wait, wrong Harrison Ford franchise) And thanks, but I took a fallacy class and had those points removed. As for everyone laughing at my sad devotion to The Force Awakens, the thing is, I don't even like it that much. I gave it a 7. I just don't think despising it for rehashing things and giving ROTJ and especially TPM a pass is very fair.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Jun 15, 2017 11:55:04 GMT
my 2 cents: TFA copies approx 90% of ANH's plot beats, the rest is OT (father/son conflict, emperor etc) or former EU beats. TFA starts with the Jedi order being destroyed (again) by a masked former Skywalker Jedi traitor going dark side, opens with an stormtrooper attack to obtain a map hidden in a droid etc - we know the story since 77-83. Additionally, and equally important, the designs (repainted spaceships etc), world building and character are rehashed. Just a few examples on the knock-offs: - The Resistance was the Rebel Alliance 2.0 - The First Order was the Empire 2.0 - Rey was Luke 2.0 (and a bit of Han, Leia, R2 and C-3PO for good measure) - BB-8 was R2-D2 2.0 - Poe Dameron was Han Solo/Wedge Antilles 2.0 - Kylo Ren was Darth Vader 2.0 - Supreme Leader Snoke was Darth Sidious 2.0 - General Hux was Grand Moff Tarkin 2.0 - Captain Phasma was Boba Fett 2.0 - Maz Kanata was Yoda 2.0 - The Hosnian System was Alderaan 2.0 - Jakku was Tatooine 2.0 - Star Killer was Death Star 3.0 (or 3.5 if you count Ep 1) and Luke was/will be Obi-wan 2.0 A few plot beats: -Secret item put inside little droid - villain all in black with helmet which alters his voice - desert planet (read tatooine) - a young goody two shoes (wooden) hero(ine). - Galactic Empire = the First order - a moon battle station...with a weakness. - the emperor = Snoke - cantina scene...with musical band and an array of oddball creatures - a snow plant (hoth) - a forest plant (endor) - dog fight in the trenches of the moon battle station. - a wise elder (obi wan in a new hope but here the elder role divided up between Han and Maz. Filling in until Luke takes up the ObiWan mantle at the end). - sneaking into moon battle station - Wise elder giving his signature weapon to young protagonist. - A military group with the exact same outfits, gear, spaceships and base as the Rebelion. - A smug, arrogant, overly ambitious military leader with a British accent who is in charge of a moon station. - Scene where the Rebel leaders gather to look at the plans of the moon station and discuss a strategy to destroy it. - A scene where a pivotal planet is destroyed. There are serious "studies" into that, check out this classic entertaining one (legal POV) www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngg2uBK2j8sNow what about that Fallacy Insurance? I happen to know a good agent! I didn't even get into the stuff TPM cribbed from ROTJ, so much so that fans have developed a "Ring Theory" to explain the similarities. How about the good guys in TPM enlisting the help of annoying native creatures to battle? A father/father figure dying in a young Jedi's arms after the villain takes a trip down a shaft? The openings with a ship docking, the middles with high speed ground vehicle set pieces (speeder chase/podrace), and the climaxes with the interconnected lightsaber duels/ground battles/space battles? I don't see the correlation between Fett and Phasma myself, aside from "they both wear costumes". I also watched the video, and don't entirely disagree with anything stated, but do you think TPM would pass the test if Lucas wasn't involved? Video guy also brought up something I was gonna talk about: Finn. By your guys' admission, Finn and his storyline don't really compare to anything we've seen before. What new character or storyline does TPM really bring to the table? Qui-Gon - Ben Kenobi Anakin/Obi-Wan - Luke Padme - Leia Palpatine - himself Maul - Vader Nute Gunroy - Tarkin Jar Jar - Wicket Shmi - Aunt Beru Watto - Jabba Naboo - Alderan Coruscant - Los Angeles 2019 (wait, wrong Harrison Ford franchise) And thanks, but I took a fallacy class and had those points removed. As for everyone laughing at my sad devotion to The Force Awakens, the thing is, I don't even like it that much. I gave it a 7. I just don't think despising it for rehashing things and giving ROTJ and especially TPM a pass is very fair. Dude, if you can't see the degree to which TFA is a literal (cynical) remake of the movie "Star Wars," while the other two films are simply sequels in a series of six movies, I can't imagine why anyone would waste time further explaining it to you. "Well, there's -- a -- a -- a Death Star in Jedi! And -- and -- and they go to Tatooine in TPM!!!!!!1" Fucking scram with that bullshit, man. Why can't anyone just say, "Sure it's a total remake/requel of A New Hope, but I loved that movie, and I loved this one too!" I would at least respect that instead of this mealy mouthed nonsense. A "fallacy class"... Good grief. By all means, give this man a free pass on the bar exam!
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Post by furiousstyles77 on Jun 15, 2017 12:33:54 GMT
It uses the same template that a new hope was based , TFA has its own story which is why people liked it , did we really want the sequels to be like the prequels ? No , we wanted a Star Wars movie that felt like a Star Wars movie and had similar themes to the originals.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Jun 15, 2017 12:42:28 GMT
It uses the same template that a new hope was based , TFA has its own story which is why people liked it , did we really want the sequels to be like the prequels ? No , we wanted a Star Wars movie that felt like a Star Wars movie and had similar themes to the originals. ![](https://media.giphy.com/media/980AN9zvREgyk/giphy.gif)
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Jun 15, 2017 12:44:12 GMT
In typical TFA apologist fashion you're stretching generalized and conceptual rehash in other SW films to try and be the same thing as the more exacting "cloned" rehash of TFA. I'm going to go over these rehash lists of Tristan's Journal and moviebuffbrad and put my notes of commentary in bold. my 2 cents: TFA copies approx 90% of ANH's plot beats, the rest is OT (father/son conflict, emperor etc) or former EU beats. TFA starts with the Jedi order being destroyed (again) by a masked former Skywalker Jedi traitor going dark side, opens with an stormtrooper attack to obtain a map hidden in a droid etc - we know the story since 77-83. Additionally, and equally important, the designs (repainted spaceships etc), world building and character are rehashed. Yes. No other SW movie copied in ship design as much as TFA copied ANH. Even ROTJ added some new ships on the Rebellion side! TESB showed new ship models also. The prequels also showed us some new from movie to movie.Just a few examples on the knock-offs: - The Resistance was the Rebel Alliance 2.0 They are exactly the same down to every last conceivable detail... Wait, the shuttle Leia was in on Takadona was new! 🙄 - The First Order was the Empire 2.0 Once again, exactly the same down to every last conceivable detail!... Wait, the same shuttle given more geometrical, squared edges!...Oh, and Snoke doesn't wear a hood like the Emperor. 🙄 - Rey was Luke 2.0 (and a bit of Han, Leia, R2 and C-3PO for good measure) Dresses just like Luke. Grew up on a planet with exactly the same environment and economy. The only person seen traveling by land-speeder on the planet like Luke (Luke 2.0 - check)... She becomes the mechanic and the pilot of the Millennium Falcon in TFA. She showed off her piloting skills through an odds defying maze (ala asteroid field) like Han. Got a unique looking blaster pistol. Even wears a sleeveless jacket at the end of the movie (Han 2.0 - check)... The Leia and R2 comparisons are there but to a lesser degree and more generalized.... She understands all alien and droid languages so she essentially replaces C3PO.- BB-8 was R2-D2 2.0 At first glance you might want to use the "he's just the new lead astromech droid" defense. But he provides the exact same humor role in the movie as R2D2. He provides the exact same plot role that R2 did in ANH (carrying a secret both sides want and be the difference in the war). He goes through the exact same experiences in almost the exact same sequence in almost the exact same environment backdrops (except for the Takadona forest).- Poe Dameron was Han Solo/Wedge Antilles 2.0 Or Wedge Antilles on steroids... or Wedge Antilles the MarySue version.- Kylo Ren was Darth Vader 2.0 Especially where the helmet is concerned, which is nothing but a cosmetic knockoff of Vader's. They even tell you in TFA through dialogue that he's a Vader wannabe knockoff!- Supreme Leader Snoke was Darth Sidious 2.0 Actually rehashing the hologram Sidious/Emperor of TESB. The correlation is very exacting.- General Hux was Grand Moff Tarkin 2.0 The slicked back hair like Tarkin. The same station commander of a Death Star. The same counterpart to a Vader character. The same giving the order to destroy a planet that was regarded as a home to Leia...- Captain Phasma was Boba Fett 2.0 A more generalized comparison but the cape is definitely a ripoff from Boba and so is the way Phasma holds and carries her blaster.- Maz Kanata was Yoda 2.0 Slightly generalized but still a lot of correlation. A small wrinkled alien of about the same stature as Yoda. They are both regarded for their wisdom. They both know the Force. Yoda was over 900 years old when he died. Maz is over a thousand years old...- The Hosnian System was Alderaan 2.0 On the surface it looked more like (and served a similar purpose of) Coruscant. But really it was the same thing as Alderaan. Planet(s) who have one onscreen appearance to be blown up by the Death Star as it's first demonstration of planet destroying power. And both were places that Leia governed from and used as home.- Jakku was Tatooine 2.0 Do we really have to elaborate here? Because if we do then I really have to question whether you have the comprehension level of someone above grade school age. - Star Killer was Death Star 3.0 (or 3.5 if you count Ep 1) Obvious to comprehend unless you haven't graduated grade school yet. and Luke was/will be Obi-wan 2.0 A few plot beats: -Secret item put inside little droid - villain all in black with helmet which alters his voice - desert planet (read tatooine) - a young goody two shoes (wooden) hero(ine). - Galactic Empire = the First order - a moon battle station...with a weakness. - the emperor = Snoke - cantina scene...with musical band and an array of oddball creatures - a snow plant (hoth) - a forest plant (endor) - dog fight in the trenches of the moon battle station. - a wise elder (obi wan in a new hope but here the elder role divided up between Han and Maz. Filling in until Luke takes up the ObiWan mantle at the end). - sneaking into moon battle station - Wise elder giving his signature weapon to young protagonist. - A military group with the exact same outfits, gear, spaceships and base as the Rebelion. - A smug, arrogant, overly ambitious military leader with a British accent who is in charge of a moon station. - Scene where the Rebel leaders gather to look at the plans of the moon station and discuss a strategy to destroy it. - A scene where a pivotal planet is destroyed. There are serious "studies" into that, check out this classic entertaining one (legal POV) www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngg2uBK2j8sNow what about that Fallacy Insurance? I happen to know a good agent! I didn't even get into the stuff TPM cribbed from ROTJ, so much so that fans have developed a "Ring Theory" to explain the similarities. How about the good guys in TPM enlisting the help of annoying native creatures to battle? A father/father figure dying in a young Jedi's arms after the villain takes a trip down a shaft? The openings with a ship docking, This is *extremely* generalized. The ships are nothing alike. The scenes are nothing alike. The purpose is nothing alike... This is exactly what I'm talking about by stretching and reaching with vague generalization that are made to be fairly compared with cloning level rehash in TFA.the middles with high speed ground vehicle set pieces (speeder chase/podrace), Okay that's a big correlation. But one is a race and another is a chase. They were different in purpose and different environments so... still not quite the clone level rehash found in most of TFA.and the climaxes with the interconnected lightsaber duels/ground battles/space battles? Okay those climaxes are probably unique from a plot, strategy, and sequence standpoint to those 2 films (TPM, ROTJ).I don't see the correlation between Fett and Phasma myself, aside from "they both wear costumes". I explained the correlation in a point above. There's definitely more correlation than "both wear costumes".I also watched the video, and don't entirely disagree with anything stated, but do you think TPM would pass the test if Lucas wasn't involved? If it was cinematically made the same way, yes. Video guy also brought up something I was gonna talk about: Finn. By your guys' admission, Finn and his storyline don't really compare to anything we've seen before. It's a fair point. But Finn is still not entirely new. Yes his concept is new. But his characterization isn't. Not much of it is devoted to a persona of a rogue Stormtrooper who develops a heightened conscience. He spends much time playing the role of a doormat sidekick who fulfilled the humor parts that C3PO and Luke Skywalker did in ANH. But he with more of a Jar Jar Binks type of delivery. What new character or storyline does TPM really bring to the table? Qui-Gon - Ben Kenobi Anakin/Obi-Wan - Luke ObiWan really doesn't compare to Luke in this movie. That's a desperate generalization just because he was an apprentice. This is new because this is the first time we see the nature of a master/apprentice relationship under the guise of the Jedi code and the Jedi Order.
Padme - Leia Palpatine - himself Another desperate generalization. We never seen Palpatine as Palpatine, not Sidious. We had never seen the nature and persona before. This was new.
Maul - Vader There's absolutely no correlation between Vader and Maul other than they were both apprentices of Sidious and they both wore black.
Nute Gunroy - Tarkin That's a very vague rehash of Tarkin! They look nothing alike. They don't work for the same organizations and don't have the same organizational relationships with their Sith Lord boss. They don't specifically have the same goals. He's a space station commander... and later on in the movie he does team up with the Sith apprentice in strategy. That's about it.
Jar Jar - Wicket Shmi - Aunt Beru Watto - Jabba Naboo - Alderan That's a horrible stretch! There's absolutely no correlation between the 2. None! 😂 Lol
Coruscant - Los Angeles 2019 (wait, wrong Harrison Ford franchise) Yeah. Laughably desperate!
And thanks, but I took a fallacy class and had those points removed. As for everyone laughing at my sad devotion to The Force Awakens, Well the thing is... (and I'm really not saying this to be condescending)... as is typical of the hundreds of threads I've seen trying to make TFA rehash seem like normal SW rehash, and other SW rehash seem like it's equal to TFA... most of your examples are stretches and quite a few are laughably bad. (Hence "everyone laughing").the thing is, I don't even like it that much. I gave it a 7. I just don't think despising it for rehashing things and giving ROTJ and especially TPM a pass is very fair. [/quote]
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Post by furiousstyles77 on Jun 15, 2017 17:19:07 GMT
It uses the same template that a new hope was based , TFA has its own story which is why people liked it , did we really want the sequels to be like the prequels ? No , we wanted a Star Wars movie that felt like a Star Wars movie and had similar themes to the originals. ![](https://media.giphy.com/media/980AN9zvREgyk/giphy.gif) So be it ....jedi , imagine a star wars sequel just as bad as the prequels, the franchise would die a death
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Post by furiousstyles77 on Jun 15, 2017 17:20:13 GMT
In typical TFA apologist fashion you're stretching generalized and conceptual rehash in other SW films to try and be the same thing as the more exacting "cloned" rehash of TFA. I'm going to go over these rehash lists of Tristan's Journal and moviebuffbrad and put my notes of commentary in bold. my 2 cents: TFA copies approx 90% of ANH's plot beats, the rest is OT (father/son conflict, emperor etc) or former EU beats. TFA starts with the Jedi order being destroyed (again) by a masked former Skywalker Jedi traitor going dark side, opens with an stormtrooper attack to obtain a map hidden in a droid etc - we know the story since 77-83. Additionally, and equally important, the designs (repainted spaceships etc), world building and character are rehashed. Yes. No other SW movie copied in ship design as much as TFA copied ANH. Even ROTJ added some new ships on the Rebellion side! TESB showed new ship models also. The prequels also showed us some new from movie to movie.Just a few examples on the knock-offs: - The Resistance was the Rebel Alliance 2.0 They are exactly the same down to every last conceivable detail... Wait, the shuttle Leia was in on Takadona was new! 🙄 - The First Order was the Empire 2.0 Once again, exactly the same down to every last conceivable detail!... Wait, the same shuttle given more geometrical, squared edges!...Oh, and Snoke doesn't wear a hood like the Emperor. 🙄 - Rey was Luke 2.0 (and a bit of Han, Leia, R2 and C-3PO for good measure) Dresses just like Luke. Grew up on a planet with exactly the same environment and economy. The only person seen traveling by land-speeder on the planet like Luke (Luke 2.0 - check)... She becomes the mechanic and the pilot of the Millennium Falcon in TFA. She showed off her piloting skills through an odds defying maze (ala asteroid field) like Han. Got a unique looking blaster pistol. Even wears a sleeveless jacket at the end of the movie (Han 2.0 - check)... The Leia and R2 comparisons are there but to a lesser degree and more generalized.... She understands all alien and droid languages so she essentially replaces C3PO.- BB-8 was R2-D2 2.0 At first glance you might want to use the "he's just the new lead astromech droid" defense. But he provides the exact same humor role in the movie as R2D2. He provides the exact same plot role that R2 did in ANH (carrying a secret both sides want and be the difference in the war). He goes through the exact same experiences in almost the exact same sequence in almost the exact same environment backdrops (except for the Takadona forest).- Poe Dameron was Han Solo/Wedge Antilles 2.0 Or Wedge Antilles on steroids... or Wedge Antilles the MarySue version.- Kylo Ren was Darth Vader 2.0 Especially where the helmet is concerned, which is nothing but a cosmetic knockoff of Vader's. They even tell you in TFA through dialogue that he's a Vader wannabe knockoff!- Supreme Leader Snoke was Darth Sidious 2.0 Actually rehashing the hologram Sidious/Emperor of TESB. The correlation is very exacting.- General Hux was Grand Moff Tarkin 2.0 The slicked back hair like Tarkin. The same station commander of a Death Star. The same counterpart to a Vader character. The same giving the order to destroy a planet that was regarded as a home to Leia...- Captain Phasma was Boba Fett 2.0 A more generalized comparison but the cape is definitely a ripoff from Boba and so is the way Phasma holds and carries her blaster.- Maz Kanata was Yoda 2.0 Slightly generalized but still a lot of correlation. A small wrinkled alien of about the same stature as Yoda. They are both regarded for their wisdom. They both know the Force. Yoda was over 900 years old when he died. Maz is over a thousand years old...- The Hosnian System was Alderaan 2.0 On the surface it looked more like (and served a similar purpose of) Coruscant. But really it was the same thing as Alderaan. Planet(s) who have one onscreen appearance to be blown up by the Death Star as it's first demonstration of planet destroying power. And both were places that Leia governed from and used as home.- Jakku was Tatooine 2.0 Do we really have to elaborate here? Because if we do then I really have to question whether you have the comprehension level of someone above grade school age. - Star Killer was Death Star 3.0 (or 3.5 if you count Ep 1) Obvious to comprehend unless you haven't graduated grade school yet. and Luke was/will be Obi-wan 2.0 A few plot beats: -Secret item put inside little droid - villain all in black with helmet which alters his voice - desert planet (read tatooine) - a young goody two shoes (wooden) hero(ine). - Galactic Empire = the First order - a moon battle station...with a weakness. - the emperor = Snoke - cantina scene...with musical band and an array of oddball creatures - a snow plant (hoth) - a forest plant (endor) - dog fight in the trenches of the moon battle station. - a wise elder (obi wan in a new hope but here the elder role divided up between Han and Maz. Filling in until Luke takes up the ObiWan mantle at the end). - sneaking into moon battle station - Wise elder giving his signature weapon to young protagonist. - A military group with the exact same outfits, gear, spaceships and base as the Rebelion. - A smug, arrogant, overly ambitious military leader with a British accent who is in charge of a moon station. - Scene where the Rebel leaders gather to look at the plans of the moon station and discuss a strategy to destroy it. - A scene where a pivotal planet is destroyed. There are serious "studies" into that, check out this classic entertaining one (legal POV) www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngg2uBK2j8sNow what about that Fallacy Insurance? I happen to know a good agent! I didn't even get into the stuff TPM cribbed from ROTJ, so much so that fans have developed a "Ring Theory" to explain the similarities. How about the good guys in TPM enlisting the help of annoying native creatures to battle? A father/father figure dying in a young Jedi's arms after the villain takes a trip down a shaft? The openings with a ship docking, This is *extremely* generalized. The ships are nothing alike. The scenes are nothing alike. The purpose is nothing alike... This is exactly what I'm talking about by stretching and reaching with vague generalization that are made to be fairly compared with cloning level rehash in TFA.the middles with high speed ground vehicle set pieces (speeder chase/podrace), Okay that's a big correlation. But one is a race and another is a chase. They were different in purpose and different environments so... still not quite the clone level rehash found in most of TFA.and the climaxes with the interconnected lightsaber duels/ground battles/space battles? Okay those climaxes are probably unique from a plot, strategy, and sequence standpoint to those 2 films (TPM, ROTJ).I don't see the correlation between Fett and Phasma myself, aside from "they both wear costumes". I explained the correlation in a point above. There's definitely more correlation than "both wear costumes".I also watched the video, and don't entirely disagree with anything stated, but do you think TPM would pass the test if Lucas wasn't involved? If it was cinematically made the same way, yes. Video guy also brought up something I was gonna talk about: Finn. By your guys' admission, Finn and his storyline don't really compare to anything we've seen before. It's a fair point. But Finn is still not entirely new. Yes his concept is new. But his characterization isn't. Not much of it is devoted to a persona of a rogue Stormtrooper who develops a heightened conscience. He spends much time playing the role of a doormat sidekick who fulfilled the humor parts that C3PO and Luke Skywalker did in ANH. But he with more of a Jar Jar Binks type of delivery. What new character or storyline does TPM really bring to the table? Qui-Gon - Ben Kenobi Anakin/Obi-Wan - Luke ObiWan really doesn't compare to Luke in this movie. That's a desperate generalization just because he was an apprentice. This is new because this is the first time we see the nature of a master/apprentice relationship under the guise of the Jedi code and the Jedi Order.
Padme - Leia Palpatine - himself Another desperate generalization. We never seen Palpatine as Palpatine, not Sidious. We had never seen the nature and persona before. This was new.
Maul - Vader There's absolutely no correlation between Vader and Maul other than they were both apprentices of Sidious and they both wore black.
Nute Gunroy - Tarkin That's a very vague rehash of Tarkin! They look nothing alike. They don't work for the same organizations and don't have the same organizational relationships with their Sith Lord boss. They don't specifically have the same goals. He's a space station commander... and later on in the movie he does team up with the Sith apprentice in strategy. That's about it.
Jar Jar - Wicket Shmi - Aunt Beru Watto - Jabba Naboo - Alderan That's a horrible stretch! There's absolutely no correlation between the 2. None! 😂 Lol
Coruscant - Los Angeles 2019 (wait, wrong Harrison Ford franchise) Yeah. Laughably desperate!
And thanks, but I took a fallacy class and had those points removed. As for everyone laughing at my sad devotion to The Force Awakens, Well the thing is... (and I'm really not saying this to be condescending)... as is typical of the hundreds of threads I've seen trying to make TFA rehash seem like normal SW rehash, and other SW rehash seem like it's equal to TFA... most of your examples are stretches and quite a few are laughably bad. (Hence "everyone laughing").the thing is, I don't even like it that much. I gave it a 7. I just don't think despising it for rehashing things and giving ROTJ and especially TPM a pass is very fair. This bickering is pointless,the prequels suck, TFA was better , game set match [/quote]
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Jun 15, 2017 19:33:47 GMT
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