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Post by Aj_June on May 6, 2019 6:36:52 GMT
I agree with most. This episode was better than last week's episode. Last week was largely disappointing. (We have to give it to Lena Headey. She makes Cersie easy to hate.) The episode was good. Fairly enjoyable.
The vast majority of GOT fans are not concerned about Cersei anymore. Her death is nearly guaranteed and so is the defeat of her & Euron.
The other concern is what is driving the GOT world into a frenzy....
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Post by movieliker on May 6, 2019 6:50:27 GMT
I agree with most. This episode was better than last week's episode. Last week was largely disappointing. (We have to give it to Lena Headey. She makes Cersie easy to hate.) The episode was good. Fairly enjoyable.
The vast majority of GOT fans are not concerned about Cersei anymore. Her death is nearly guaranteed and so is the defeat of her & Euron.
The other concern is what is driving the GOT world into a frenzy....
I truly do not know. But I will guess what the other concern is. Either who kills Cersei. Or who dies in the Battle for King's Landing. |
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Post by movieliker on May 6, 2019 7:02:31 GMT
I agree with Sansa. Dany should have waited until the troops got to rest and heal.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on May 6, 2019 7:06:39 GMT
I agree with Sansa. Dany should have waited until the troops got to rest and heal. Do you think she knew better than Greyworm or Jon?
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Post by movieliker on May 6, 2019 7:15:19 GMT
I agree with Sansa. Dany should have waited until the troops got to rest and heal. Do you think she knew better than Greyworm or Jon? Yes. Jon does whatever Dany says. And Jon has proven repeatedly not to be a good battle strategist. I don't remember Grey Worm agreeing with Dany. If he did, it was probably out of allegiance to his queen. |
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on May 6, 2019 7:27:14 GMT
Do you think she knew better than Greyworm or Jon? Yes. Jon does whatever Dany says. And Jon has proven repeatedly not to be a good battle strategist. Who is Greyworm? Grey Worm is the leader of the Unsullied and advises her on military affairs.
Jon has been leading men into battle for years, Sansa has claimed on more than one occasion she knows nothing about military strategy. Jon also knows Daenerys can change her mind when her advisors suggest alternate courses of action. He decided Daenerys had the better plan, therefore why would you assume Sansa was correct?
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Post by movieliker on May 6, 2019 8:58:13 GMT
Yes. Jon does whatever Dany says. And Jon has proven repeatedly not to be a good battle strategist. Who is Greyworm? Grey Worm is the leader of the Unsullied and advises her on military affairs.
Jon has been leading men into battle for years, Sansa has claimed on more than one occasion she knows nothing about military strategy. Jon also knows Daenerys can change her mind when her advisors suggest alternate courses of action. He decided Daenerys had the better plan, therefore why would you assume Sansa was correct?
I don't remember Grey Worm agreeing with Dany. If he did, it was probably out of allegiance to his queen. Jon has on more than one occasion made dumb battle strategy. Daenerys seems to be losing her head. Reacting out of emotion. Not thinking objectively. Sansa has been growing as an adult and leader since the beginning of the show. |
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Post by Marendil on May 6, 2019 9:47:18 GMT
Grey Worm is the leader of the Unsullied and advises her on military affairs.
Jon has been leading men into battle for years, Sansa has claimed on more than one occasion she knows nothing about military strategy. Jon also knows Daenerys can change her mind when her advisors suggest alternate courses of action. He decided Daenerys had the better plan, therefore why would you assume Sansa was correct?
I don't remember Grey Worm agreeing with Dany. If he did, it was probably out of allegiance to his queen. Jon has on more than one occasion made dumb battle strategy. Daenerys seems to be losing her head. Reacting out of emotion. Not thinking objectively. Sansa has been growing as an adult and leader since the beginning of the show. He didn't object, that's what I was getting at. He isn't serving his queen if he fails to give an honest analysis, he's sandbagging her.
Actually Jon's strategy at the Battle of the Bastards was fine, they had trenches dug on the flanks and plans to lure Ramsey in and envelop them, it was his execution that was lacking. By which I mean he totally lost his shorts and charged the Bolton lines when Rickon was toyed with and killed.
Daenerys hasn't lost it yet, despite extreme provocation, but it won't surprise me if the next episode is entitled "Dracarys."
Sansa is and I like her too, it's just curious that some would assume she'd was right about this when the others with experience in these matters didn't back her up. It sounds reasonable, but sometimes getting there sooner is more important than having the most numbers when you do. The ones that can't keep up can catch up later, why not get the healthiest into play as soon as possible?
Also I don't think Sansa is a blabby teenager, I think she deliberately tried to sow dissent in Dany's ranks by telling Tyrion of Jon's heritage because despite all Dany did for the North, Sansa sees her as a threat to the Starks. She also thinks Jon would be far easier to manage....
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Post by Marv on May 6, 2019 10:04:11 GMT
I thought Dany abandoning her fleet during Eurons attack in order to save her last dragon would have bigger consequences right away. I thought maybe this would cause a rift between her and Grey Worm, or at least show how disappointed he is that she left them helpless. So far it doesn't seem to have mattered but now that it basically led to Missandeis death im wondering if he will speak up on it or just soldier on.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 6, 2019 10:49:50 GMT
I don't remember Grey Worm agreeing with Dany. If he did, it was probably out of allegiance to his queen. Jon has on more than one occasion made dumb battle strategy. Daenerys seems to be losing her head. Reacting out of emotion. Not thinking objectively. Sansa has been growing as an adult and leader since the beginning of the show. He didn't object, that's what I was getting at. He isn't serving his queen if he fails to give an honest analysis, he's sandbagging her.
Actually Jon's strategy at the Battle of the Bastards was fine, they had trenches dug on the flanks and plans to lure Ramsey in and envelop them, it was his execution that was lacking. By which I mean he totally lost his shorts and charged the Bolton lines when Rickon was toyed with and killed.
Daenerys hasn't lost it yet, despite extreme provocation, but it won't surprise me if the next episode is entitled "Dracarys."
Sansa is and I like her too, it's just curious that some would assume she'd was right about this when the others with experience in these matters didn't back her up. It sounds reasonable, but sometimes getting there sooner is more important than having the most numbers when you do. The ones that can't keep up can catch up later, why not get the healthiest into play as soon as possible?
Also I don't think Sansa is a blabby teenager, I think she deliberately tried to sow dissent in Dany's ranks by telling Tyrion of Jon's heritage because despite all Dany did for the North, Sansa sees her as a threat to the Starks. She also thinks Jon would be far easier to manage....
Sansa only knows the game like Cersei which would be all you would need to win. She has been a great strategist from the getgo. Jon's strategy in the Bastard Battle was not a good one since he was always greatly outnumbered and Sansa told him so. She was the one smart enough to know Rickon was a goner. Jon;s whole purpose for being there was flawed. I agree that her intention was to ensure Jon has a shot at being king because she knew what Dany, Tyrion, and Varys knew but Jon is too dumb to figure out - They will pick him solely on the basis of liking him because it sure ain;t due to his leadership skills. That said, the way they are handling this is almost as bad as the way they handled her and Arya's "feud" last season. It's too clunky.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 6, 2019 11:11:16 GMT
Pretty awful tbh. Again most of the character stuff is nice. But they just can’t help but botch everything else. The logic is completely missing. No idea why Dany would meet with Cersei after seeing her dragon get massacred. And I have no idea why Cersei did not open fire and end the war in a matter of minutes. Just one example of something I didn’t like. It’s definitely a failure of a season for me. Everything I liked about the show died. Glad you guys like it though edit: also fuck Jon for hating ghost. That enraged me. that was so un-jon thing to do ? giving ghost up like that to tormund i know tormund is a friend but still .... but lets have some faith troyal i think this is political jon we are viewing 100% with dany and i think he is shunning his stark side for a reason also he may not want ghost hurt in the upcoming battle he was already hurt.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 6, 2019 11:22:46 GMT
Full disclosure, I laughed out loud when Rhaegar got shot. I couldn’t help it. Did it squeal funny?
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 6, 2019 11:26:01 GMT
Rip Missandeia perfect body.  So you wouldn't mind having it without a head? Not sure they'll sell it to you, though.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 6, 2019 11:29:50 GMT
That said, the way they are handling this is almost as bad as the way they handled her and Arya's "feud" last season. It's too clunky. Let me guess, it's written big and obvious to make sure the idiots who watch it understand…
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on May 6, 2019 11:52:47 GMT
He didn't object, that's what I was getting at. He isn't serving his queen if he fails to give an honest analysis, he's sandbagging her.
Actually Jon's strategy at the Battle of the Bastards was fine, they had trenches dug on the flanks and plans to lure Ramsey in and envelop them, it was his execution that was lacking. By which I mean he totally lost his shorts and charged the Bolton lines when Rickon was toyed with and killed.
Daenerys hasn't lost it yet, despite extreme provocation, but it won't surprise me if the next episode is entitled "Dracarys."
Sansa is and I like her too, it's just curious that some would assume she'd was right about this when the others with experience in these matters didn't back her up. It sounds reasonable, but sometimes getting there sooner is more important than having the most numbers when you do. The ones that can't keep up can catch up later, why not get the healthiest into play as soon as possible?
Also I don't think Sansa is a blabby teenager, I think she deliberately tried to sow dissent in Dany's ranks by telling Tyrion of Jon's heritage because despite all Dany did for the North, Sansa sees her as a threat to the Starks. She also thinks Jon would be far easier to manage....
Sansa only knows the game like Cersei which would be all you would need to win. She has been a great strategist from the getgo. Jon's strategy in the Bastard Battle was not a good one since he was always greatly outnumbered and Sansa told him so. She was the one smart enough to know Rickon was a goner. Jon;s whole purpose for being there was flawed. I agree that her intention was to ensure Jon has a shot at being king because she knew what Dany, Tyrion, and Varys knew but Jon is too dumb to figure out - They will pick him solely on the basis of liking him because it sure ain;t due to his leadership skills. That said, the way they are handling this is almost as bad as the way they handled her and Arya's "feud" last season. It's too clunky. If you pay close attention to the the strategy session before the battle, Tormund, Jon and Davos detailed their intended strategy, best remembered by Tormund not knowing what an envelopment was, nor a pincer movement but that Stannis cut through them like 'piss through snow.' Jon then failed to properly execute it, to put it kindly. Yes Sansa was more correct in some regards and he should have listened better to her, but as she admitted she couldn't help him with strategy or tactics but knew that Ramsey was more cunning than Jon and he had to avoid falling into Ramsey's trap. Jon then famously lost his mind and FUBAR'd it, but not because he didn't understand strategy but because he lost his temper.
This situation was more like Patton draining fuel from half his tanks to keep the other half going because having something advancing immediately was better than showing up with everything later. In this case the healthier units can get there quicker and the ones that need more rest can straggle behind. That sometimes might be the best thing to do and might not occur to someone like Sansa who freely admits she knows little about military strategy.
That's all I was getting at.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 6, 2019 12:05:52 GMT
What happened to the poor thing? |
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 6, 2019 12:14:39 GMT
I liked the episode much more than last weeks at least i could see it  some of my guesses were correct , dark dany in denial about her "queen" status begging jon not to tell anyone who he really is so she can keep her crown/iron throne, can she get any more power hungry or desperate than she already is? i mean really they didnt need to cut off missandeis head or shoot down one of her dragons to descend dany into deeper madness or give her an excuse to turn completely bonkers , shes already there you could see it through her eyes even when they were celebrating she was watching everyone around her and playing scenarios in her head who was with her and who was not , making gendry lord just so he doesnt come after the iron throne sansa knows what shes up to speaking of sansa i think shes only one left with some brain cells there her argument to delay attacking KL and rest ALL their forces including danys was a good one but yet no one listening and they undermined her and dany made some power play how she would be the rightful queen , and yet once again she LOST , she lost one more dragon and her best friend missandei , by the way my guess was pretty close once again with the kidnap plot just wrong person -something about missandeis death bothered me , her last words was "Dracarys" not i love you to greyworm or dany her friends but a word that brings on fire and death to million of innocents , this coming from a former slave a nice quiet peaceful woman ,so out of character i thought ,im sorry misandei was executed but dany using her as her narrative to kill thousands of innocent children in KL wont be a good enough excuse this is why i say she will be known as the queen of ashes . About the relationship stuff i found all of it kinda sad desperate even for the couples i do not ship , jamie/brienne having sex looked so out of place IMO and they had brienne lose her virginity to jamie only to go back to cersei , Leo was right about that ,as soon as he found out his sister was in danger he is going to her , jamie told birenne i know cersei is hateful so Im i and off he rode , i guess because a lot of fans expected jamie/brienne to happen in earlier seasons now that it did kinda fell flat Arya rejecting gendrys marriage proposal she gives up on love so she can go kill cersei , i would have picked gendry but thats just me LOL kinda sad arya told the hound she wont ever be coming back to winterfell so what is her plan after KL? Dany going to jon and telling him that jorah loved her but she couldnt love him back - and that she is IN LOVE with jon , he coudlnt say it back to her -thats a red flag Jon has NEVER told dany he loves her not once even after this love declaration from dany if their relationship is supposed to be this grant love story endgame this is terrible and i mean terrible romance writing , dany is not stupid she went in his room to manipulate him with her tears and confess her love to him so he can give up his claim to the iron throne or to keep quiet just like i guessed she would , jon tried to have sex with her to shut her up and he couldnt even do that this is how bad things are between them once again she brings up sansa and once again basically telling jon if jon doesnt do things her way she wont value him as equal its her way or the highway . And lastly the talk tyrion and sansa had i LOVED it , it confirmed to me sansa is in love with jon and wants to keep him safe in the north and loved sansa told the truth to tyrion who jon really is after swearing to jon not to and im glad she did ,how low has jon has come because of fear of the dragon queen? someone who is loyal and honest and brags about this all the time but had his cousins now swear to him not to tell anyone who he really is to keep the lie going , im glad sansa told tyrion the truth and sansa could tell how much tyrion fears dany as well like sansa said in last weeks episode all we can do now is stare truth in the face .And as a predicted varys and tyrion already questioning thier queens state of mind and varys wanting jon on the throne. And i was correct Cersei didnt fall . |
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 6, 2019 12:24:26 GMT
What happened to the poor thing?
i felt bad for ghost but im glad at least he survived but what his wonder did just giving up like that , its like jon has been kidnapped by someone not acting like himself
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 6, 2019 12:56:46 GMT
Sansa only knows the game like Cersei which would be all you would need to win. She has been a great strategist from the getgo. Jon's strategy in the Bastard Battle was not a good one since he was always greatly outnumbered and Sansa told him so. She was the one smart enough to know Rickon was a goner. Jon;s whole purpose for being there was flawed. I agree that her intention was to ensure Jon has a shot at being king because she knew what Dany, Tyrion, and Varys knew but Jon is too dumb to figure out - They will pick him solely on the basis of liking him because it sure ain;t due to his leadership skills. That said, the way they are handling this is almost as bad as the way they handled her and Arya's "feud" last season. It's too clunky. If you pay close attention to the the strategy session before the battle, Tormund, Jon and Davos detailed their intended strategy, best remembered by Tormund not knowing what an envelopment was, nor a pincer movement but that Stannis cut through them like 'piss through snow.' Jon then failed to properly execute it, to put it kindly. Yes Sansa was more correct in some regards and he should have listened better to her, but as she admitted she couldn't help him with strategy or tactics but knew that Ramsey was more cunning than Jon and he had to avoid falling into Ramsey's trap. Jon then famously lost his mind and FUBAR'd it, but not because he didn't understand strategy but because he lost his temper.
This situation was more like Patton draining fuel from half his tanks to keep the other half going because having something advancing immediately was better than showing up with everything later. In this case the healthier units can get there quicker and the ones that need more rest can straggle behind. That sometimes might be the best thing to do and might not occur to someone like Sansa who freely admits she knows little about military strategy.
That's all I was getting at.
that’s the reason why basics strategy will never work even in real world scenarios. Jon’s strategy was based on them being the underdog. The main problem is Ramsey had already anticipated the move with or without Rickon. He was simply smarter than Jon and Sansa knowing Ramsay meant she was smarter than Jon. Honestly she’s always going to be smarter than him but she will never be as likeable. Jon trusts common people more but Sansa knows leadership more since she’s been around it more. |
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Post by Nightman on May 6, 2019 14:04:13 GMT
It finally dawned on me that D&D are trying to do the Dance of Dragons 2.0. Cramming it in two and a half episodes is a stupid idea, but they were hellbent on rushing the show so they can fade into obscurity sooner.
Jon is Aegon, obviously. Sansa is taking on Arianne's role, which explains a helluva lot. Book Sansa won't do anything, so they combined her with someone who will. That explains why she hates Dany for no reason, they are shoehorning her into somebody else's place. Varys was always Team Aegon. Tyrion is torn between them.
This episode confirmed a few more book details for me. Jon will give Ghost to Val. He says at one point that they look like they belong together. I know he won't die in the books, because he survived in the show, and this show loves murdering direwolves. Dany will only have Drogon at the end. The other dragons may not die, but others will steal them. The show just doesn't want to spend time animating them anymore.
In the trailer for next week, when Euron looks up at the sky in fear, that doesn't sound like Drogon's roar. It sounded more like Viserion or Rhaegal. A lot of people are claiming he is seeing Drogon in armor. I don't remember the show alluding to that at all. It did set up Rhaegal's return with Euron's uncertainty if he was really dead. If Arya can survive a thousand stabbings by whatsherface, then Rhaegal can take a few arrows and go for a quick swim.
What I wouldn't give for Rhaegal to return as a dragon version of Patchface, a fooked up Lovecraftian horror sent back by the Drowned god. After it's all over, he can go scoop up Ghost, then they can terrorize the Snowflake for being the worst pet owner in Westeros.
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