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Post by charzhino on May 9, 2019 13:51:59 GMT
Red Skull states "To ensure whoever possesses it understands its power, the stone demands a sacrifice... In order to take the stone, you must lose that which you love. A soul... for a soul."
Thanos willingly has to sacrafice Gamora against her wishes in Infinity War.
But in ENDGAME the mechanics of the scene are botched. The whole point is someone has to, through a concious choice, actively give up the person they love. Hawekeye and Black Widow where both tryng to stop each other from killing themselves. How can either person then be worthy enough of commanding the soul gem because they were clearly not willing to make the sacrafice needed? Even right at the end when both are dangling off the cliff, Clint is not letting go. It takes Natasha to bounce her legs off the cliff and fall.
Another badly written scene in Endgame or am I missing something?
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Post by Rey Kahuka on May 9, 2019 14:28:56 GMT
Both characters loved each other, hence the fight over who would be the one to go. The stone acknowledged that love by giving up the soul stone after Nat's sacrifice.
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Post by charzhino on May 9, 2019 14:33:43 GMT
Both characters loved each other, hence the fight over who would be the one to go. The stone acknowledged that love by giving up the soul stone after Nat's sacrifice.
This contradicts the scene in IW when Gamora tries to kill herself and Thanos vanishes the knife. The implication here is the person wanting the soul gem needs to give up what he loves willingly. Hawkeye and Black Widow are not willing to do that. Hmmm contradiction
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Post by bud47 on May 9, 2019 14:36:30 GMT
Red Skull states "To ensure whoever possesses it understands its power, the stone demands a sacrifice... In order to take the stone, you must lose that which you love. A soul... for a soul."
Thanos willingly has to sacrafice Gamora against her wishes in Infinity War.
But in ENDGAME the mechanics of the scene are botched. The whole point is someone has to, through a concious choice, actively give up the person they love. Hawekeye and Black Widow where both tryng to stop each other from killing themselves. How can either person then be worthy enough of commanding the soul gem because they were clearly not willing to make the sacrafice needed? Even right at the end when both are dangling off the cliff, Clint is not letting go. It takes Natasha to bounce her legs off the cliff and fall.
Another badly written scene in Endgame or am I missing something? The stone demands a sacrifice - Black Widow sacrificed herself You must lose what you love - Hawkeye lost Black Widow A soul for a soul - Black Widow's soul for the soul stone All requirements seem to have been met, so not sure how you're confused about this. The real question is what happens when only a single person comes to claim the stone?
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Post by charzhino on May 9, 2019 14:39:03 GMT
Red Skull states "To ensure whoever possesses it understands its power, the stone demands a sacrifice... In order to take the stone, you must lose that which you love. A soul... for a soul."
Thanos willingly has to sacrafice Gamora against her wishes in Infinity War.
But in ENDGAME the mechanics of the scene are botched. The whole point is someone has to, through a concious choice, actively give up the person they love. Hawekeye and Black Widow where both tryng to stop each other from killing themselves. How can either person then be worthy enough of commanding the soul gem because they were clearly not willing to make the sacrafice needed? Even right at the end when both are dangling off the cliff, Clint is not letting go. It takes Natasha to bounce her legs off the cliff and fall.
Another badly written scene in Endgame or am I missing something? The stone demands a sacrifice - Black Widow sacrificed herself You must lose what you love - Hawkeye lost Black Widow A soul for a soul - Black Widow's soul for the soul stone All requirements seem to have been met, so not sure how you're confused about this. The real question is what happens when only a single person comes to claim the stone? Then why does Thanos prevent Gamora killing herself? Russos are going back on what happened in their last movie
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Post by Rey Kahuka on May 9, 2019 14:40:06 GMT
Both characters loved each other, hence the fight over who would be the one to go. The stone acknowledged that love by giving up the soul stone after Nat's sacrifice.
This contradicts the scene in IW when Gamora tries to kill herself and Thanos vanishes the knife. The implication here is the person wanting the soul gem needs to give up what he loves willingly. Hawkeye and Black Widow are not willing to do that. Hmmm contradiction
The person who wants the stone must sacrifice a soul they love. A soul for a soul.
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Post by charzhino on May 9, 2019 14:40:52 GMT
The real question is what happens when only a single person comes to claim the stone? We already know nothing happens because Red SKull came on his own to collect the soul gem but couldnt obtain it as he didnt love anyone else but himself.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on May 9, 2019 14:41:39 GMT
The stone demands a sacrifice - Black Widow sacrificed herself You must lose what you love - Hawkeye lost Black Widow A soul for a soul - Black Widow's soul for the soul stone All requirements seem to have been met, so not sure how you're confused about this. The real question is what happens when only a single person comes to claim the stone? Then why does Thanos prevent Gamora killing herself? Russos are going back on what happened in their last movie Notice she tried to stab herself instead of...jumping off the cliff? What do those two scenes have in common?
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Post by charzhino on May 9, 2019 14:42:19 GMT
This contradicts the scene in IW when Gamora tries to kill herself and Thanos vanishes the knife. The implication here is the person wanting the soul gem needs to give up what he loves willingly. Hawkeye and Black Widow are not willing to do that. Hmmm contradiction
The person who wants the stone must sacrifice a soul they love. A soul for a soul. Going by your words, Clint (the person who wants the gem) didnt want to sacrifice widow for the stone.
And this doesnt explain why Thanos couldnt just let Gamora kill herself - the same way Widow wanted to killherself.
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Post by charzhino on May 9, 2019 14:43:41 GMT
Then why does Thanos prevent Gamora killing herself? Russos are going back on what happened in their last movie Notice she tried to stab herself instead of...jumping off the cliff? What do those two scenes have in common? You can hardly look into that. She had a knife at hand and wanted a quick death to take Thanos by surprise. Running to the cliff would have been too time consuming
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Post by merh on May 9, 2019 14:44:38 GMT
The stone demands a sacrifice - Black Widow sacrificed herself You must lose what you love - Hawkeye lost Black Widow A soul for a soul - Black Widow's soul for the soul stone All requirements seem to have been met, so not sure how you're confused about this. The real question is what happens when only a single person comes to claim the stone? Then why does Thanos prevent Gamora killing herself? Russos are going back on what happened in their last movie Because the stone is intuitive. It knows Gamora was trying to kill herself out of hate for Thanos. It knows Clint & Natasha care deeply enough that each is trying to sacrifice themself to save the other. It can feel their loss. That you have to ask suggests you fail to comprehend such loss which is sad for you
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Post by Rey Kahuka on May 9, 2019 14:46:31 GMT
The person who wants the stone must sacrifice a soul they love. A soul for a soul. Going by your words, Clint (the person who wants the gem) didnt want to sacrifice widow for the stone.
And this doesnt explain why Thanos couldnt just let Gamora kill herself - the same way Widow wanted to killherself.
He obviously didn't want to, but he lost a soul he loved, hence the obligation was fulfilled. This stuff isn't that complicated, man. Kind of like when I told you Thanos replicated the Pym particles. First you argued with me. Then you made up some goofy, convoluted fan fic about Thanos going back in time farther; then posted proof of Thanos replicating Pym particles the next day as some kind of victory lap even though I'm the one who told you that's what he did in the first place. Pay attention when the adults are talking and we wouldn't have to talk in circles like this all the time.
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Post by charzhino on May 9, 2019 14:52:01 GMT
Then why does Thanos prevent Gamora killing herself? Russos are going back on what happened in their last movie Because the stone is intuitive. It knows Gamora was trying to kill herself out of hate for Thanos. It knows Clint & Natasha care deeply enough that each is trying to sacrifice themself to save the other. It can feel their loss. This doesnt change the fact that Thanos is losing someone he loves (Gamora) in the same way Clint is losing someone he loves in Nat. The net outcome is the proposed wielder of the gem has to let someone he loves go - the sacraficial lamb is irrelevant
If Gamora did kill herself, Thanos would still be awarded the soul gem because he didnt stop the suicide. Clint tried to stop the suicide of Natasha therefore he isnt willing to make the sacrafice. The sacrificial lamb is not a factor in the equation
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Post by Lord Death Man on May 9, 2019 14:54:54 GMT
Going by your words, Clint (the person who wants the gem) didnt want to sacrifice widow for the stone.
And this doesnt explain why Thanos couldnt just let Gamora kill herself - the same way Widow wanted to killherself.
He obviously didn't want to, but he lost a soul he loved, hence the obligation was fulfilled. This stuff isn't that complicated, man. Kind of like when I told you Thanos replicated the Pym particles. First you argued with me. Then you made up some goofy, convoluted fan fic about Thanos going back in time farther; then posted proof of Thanos replicating Pym particles the next day as some kind of victory lap even though I'm the one who told you that's what he did in the first place. Pay attention when the adults are talking and we wouldn't have to talk in circles like this all the time. Dude, at least he's engaged. I look forward to his playback on the next MCU film --- and the next one --- and the next one after that. His compatriates who don't like the series have all had the good sense to ignore the MCU and move on but, not him. Not him. Charzy, you should see the film at least one more time if not two. We think some of your facts are distorted plus, we've got one more record to break.
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Post by charzhino on May 9, 2019 14:55:15 GMT
Going by your words, Clint (the person who wants the gem) didnt want to sacrifice widow for the stone.
And this doesnt explain why Thanos couldnt just let Gamora kill herself - the same way Widow wanted to killherself.
He obviously didn't want to, but he lost a soul he loved, hence the obligation was fulfilled.
Clint didnt want to lose her. Thanos wanted to lose her. So the logical conclusion is Thanos didnt know the true rules of getting the soul gem. He could just sit back and watch Gamora kill herself, either by self stabbing or jumping off the cliff. ARe you saying that is correct
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Post by Rey Kahuka on May 9, 2019 14:57:05 GMT
He obviously didn't want to, but he lost a soul he loved, hence the obligation was fulfilled.
Clint didnt want to lose her. Thanos wanted to lose her. So the logical conclusion is Thanos didnt know the true rules of getting the soul gem. He could just sit back and watch Gamora kill herself, either by self stabbing or jumping off the cliff. ARe you saying that is correct
The logical conclusion has been pointed out to you several times now.
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Post by Lord Death Man on May 9, 2019 14:57:16 GMT
...and Spider-Man: Far From Home opens on Tuesday, July 2, 2019. Don't miss it! There's going to be lots of Endgame fact checking for you to do. Hee hee hee...
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Post by charzhino on May 9, 2019 14:57:20 GMT
He obviously didn't want to, but he lost a soul he loved, hence the obligation was fulfilled. This stuff isn't that complicated, man. Kind of like when I told you Thanos replicated the Pym particles. First you argued with me. Then you made up some goofy, convoluted fan fic about Thanos going back in time farther; then posted proof of Thanos replicating Pym particles the next day as some kind of victory lap even though I'm the one who told you that's what he did in the first place. Pay attention when the adults are talking and we wouldn't have to talk in circles like this all the time. Dude, at least he's engaged. I look forward to his playback on the next MCU film --- and the next one --- and the next one after that. His compatriates who don't like the series have all had the good sense to ignore the MCU and move on but, not him. Not him. Charzy, you should see the film at least one more time if not two. We think some of your facts are distorted plus, we've got one more record to break. Not really its a simple obsveration that doesnt need rewatch. Thanos stopped Gamora killing herself - but killed her anyway. Very next movie Clint is stopping Natasha from killng herself all the way. How can both be worthy of the soul gem - unless Thanos didnt know the rules of the game properly
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Post by charzhino on May 9, 2019 14:59:31 GMT
Clint didnt want to lose her. Thanos wanted to lose her. So the logical conclusion is Thanos didnt know the true rules of getting the soul gem. He could just sit back and watch Gamora kill herself, either by self stabbing or jumping off the cliff. ARe you saying that is correct
The logical conclusion has been pointed out to you several times now. Did Thanos know the rules of the soul gem sacrfice yes or no.
If yes, why didnt he allow gamora to kill herself - after all its a soul for a soul at the end of the day according to you, intentions dont matter
If no, then the rules obviously werent explained clearly because Clint does the exact same opposite action of Thanos yet still gets awarded the gem
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havenless
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@havenless
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Post by havenless on May 9, 2019 15:00:02 GMT
Dude, at least he's engaged. I look forward to his playback on the next MCU film --- and the next one --- and the next one after that. His compatriates who don't like the series have all had the good sense to ignore the MCU and move on but, not him. Not him. Charzy, you should see the film at least one more time if not two. We think some of your facts are distorted plus, we've got one more record to break. Not really its a simple obsveration that doesnt need rewatch. Thanos stopped Gamora killing herself - but killed her anyway. Very next movie Clint is stopping Natasha from killng herself all the way. How can both be worthy of the soul gem - unless Thanos didnt know the rules of the game properly Because the altar is at the bottom of the cliff, not at the top.
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