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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 3, 2019 16:51:41 GMT
Even if he did it wouldn't have changed anything in the main timeline. He would simply create an alternate timeline where 9/11 didn't happen. Specifically the timeline he currently lives in. That goes from any changes. From stopping slavery to killing baby Hitler. The excuses for Rogers not preventing 9/11 because he doesn't want to change the timeline and alter history would've been OK if Rogers hadn't changed the timeline for his own personal gain so he could screw Peggy Carter and steal Peggy Carter away from the man she's supposed to marry. The moment that Rogers changed the timeline for his own personal gain so he could screw Peggy Carter and steal Peggy Carter away from the man she's supposed to marry, all his excuses for not preventing 9/11 became invalid. Only a selfish asshole would change the timeline for his own personal gain while making a bunch of excuses to not prevent a heinous terrorist attack like 9/11 and save thousands of American lives, especially since it was the American government that gave him the super-PED which gave him his super-powers.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Jul 3, 2019 16:55:14 GMT
Even if he did it wouldn't have changed anything in the main timeline. He would simply create an alternate timeline where 9/11 didn't happen. Specifically the timeline he currently lives in. That goes from any changes. From stopping slavery to killing baby Hitler. The excuses for Rogers not preventing 9/11 because he doesn't want to change the timeline and alter history would've been OK if Rogers hadn't changed the timeline for his own personal gain so he could screw Peggy Carter and steal Peggy Carter away from the man she's supposed to marry. The moment that Rogers changed the timeline for his own personal gain so he could screw Peggy Carter and steal Peggy Carter away from the man she's supposed to marry, all his excuses for not preventing 9/11 became invalid. Only a selfish asshole would change the timeline for his own personal gain while making a bunch of excuses to not prevent a heinous terrorist attack like 9/11 and save thousands of American lives, especially since it was the American government that gave him the super-PED which gave him his super-powers. By the way how do we know that he didn't stop 9/11 in his new timeline with Peggy? It's very possible in that new Timeline.
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Post by poutinep on Jul 3, 2019 16:58:50 GMT
Even if he did it wouldn't have changed anything in the main timeline. He would simply create an alternate timeline where 9/11 didn't happen. Specifically the timeline he currently lives in. That goes from any changes. From stopping slavery to killing baby Hitler. The excuses for Rogers not preventing 9/11 because he doesn't want to change the timeline and alter history I don't know who said 'Steve didn't want to change the timeline and alter history' but whether or not he wanted to is irrelevant. You can't change the past of your own timeline. If you time travel, you create a parallel universe whose history is different from your own timeline's based on your actions in that new timeline. Even if he did it wouldn't have changed anything in the main timeline. He would simply create an alternate timeline where 9/11 didn't happen. Specifically the timeline he currently lives in. That goes from any changes. From stopping slavery to killing baby Hitler. The moment that Rogers changed the timeline Again, you can't change a timeline, you can only create a different one. This is because of the paradox evident in movies like Back to the Future. Say Steve went back to rescue himself from the arctic the day of the crash so he doesn't get frozen. If he doesn't get frozen, he doesn't get unfrozen by Fury. If he doesn't get unfrozen by Fury in the 21st, he won't meet Scott Lang. If he doesn't meet Lang, he doesn't become aware of time travel so he can't go back and save himself. This is why Endgame doesn't use BttF time travel rules. History can't be changed.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 3, 2019 17:10:42 GMT
The excuses for Rogers not preventing 9/11 because he doesn't want to change the timeline and alter history I don't know who said 'Steve didn't want to change the timeline and alter history' but whether or not he wanted to is irrelevant. You can't change the past of your own timeline. If you time travel, you create a parallel universe whose history is different from your own timelines based on your actions in that new timeline. The moment that Rogers changed the timeline Say Steve went back to rescue himself from the arctic the day of the crash so he doesn't get frozen. If he doesn't get frozen, he doesn't get unfrozen by Fury. If he doesn't get unfrozen by Fury in the 21st, he won't meet Scott Lang. If he doesn't meet Lang, he doesn't become aware of time travel so he can't go back and save himself. This is why Endgame doesn't use BttF time travel rules. History can't be changed.
If Steve went back and rescued himself so he doesn't get frozen, the wouldn't need to meet Scott Lang or become aware of time travel or go back to save himself. Because history has been changed. That's how time travel works, not only in BTTF but all other time travel movies. In The City on the Edge of Forever, McCoy goes back to the 1930s and saves Edith Keeler from dying in an traffic accident. That changes history because Edith Keeler would lead a peace movement in the late 1930s that delays the US from entering WW2, which allows the Nazis to develop the atomic bomb first and win the war. Kirk has to go back and restore the timeline and prevent history from changing by stopping McCoy from saving Edith Keeler. In Star Trek: First Contact, the Borg travel to Earth's past and assimilate humans in the past, which prevents First Contact and the forming of the Federation. The Enterprise has to go back and restore the timeline and prevent history from changing by making sure First Contact occurs. The Engame writers were too lazy and too stupid to write a good time travel story so they made up some lame rules that were inconsistent and made no sense at all.
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Post by poutinep on Jul 3, 2019 17:22:51 GMT
I don't know who said 'Steve didn't want to change the timeline and alter history' but whether or not he wanted to is irrelevant. You can't change the past of your own timeline. If you time travel, you create a parallel universe whose history is different from your own timelines based on your actions in that new timeline. Say Steve went back to rescue himself from the arctic the day of the crash so he doesn't get frozen. If he doesn't get frozen, he doesn't get unfrozen by Fury. If he doesn't get unfrozen by Fury in the 21st, he won't meet Scott Lang. If he doesn't meet Lang, he doesn't become aware of time travel so he can't go back and save himself. This is why Endgame doesn't use BttF time travel rules. History can't be changed.
If Steve went back and rescued himself so he doesn't get frozen, the wouldn't need to meet Scott Lang or become aware of time travel or go back to save himself. Because history has been changed. LOL what? You. Can't. Change. History. It's done. If Steve A goes back in time and saves Steve B, then B doesn't meet Lang or learn about time travel - he can't do what A did. Meaning B would go on to live a different life than A and never save his past-self. That's the paradox. That's why Endgame doesn't use those bullshit rules. That's why they didn't just stop Thanos at some point like on Titan. They can't change what already happened in their timeline.
That's how time travel works, not only in BTTF but all other time travel movies. In The City on the Edge of Forever, McCoy goes back to the 1930s and saves Edith Keeler from dying in an traffic accident. LOL They explicitly point out - twice - that BttF and similar movies' rules are bullshit / horseshit. It doesn't work like that because it creates a paradox. They used a set of rules that could actually work because time travel creates a new timeline, meaning they're not changing their timeline, they're creating a new and different timeline which exists separately from their original timeline.
See image below. Back to the Future uses the 'dynamic timeline' rules which creates a paradox. Endgame uses the multiverse rules which does not create a paradox.
Lang: But if we go back and get the stones before Thanos gets them, Thanos doesn’t have the stones. Problem solved.
Hawkeye: Bingo.
Nebula: That’s not how it works.
Hawkeye: Well, that’s what I heard.
Banner: What by who? Who told you that?
Rhodey/War Machine: Star Trek. Terminator. Time Cop. Time After Time. Quantum Leap. Wrinkle In Time. Somewhere In Time. Time Machine. Hot Tub Machine. Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure. Basically any movie that deals with time travel. (BttF rules)
Lang: Die Hard? No, that’s not one of them.
Rhodey/War Machine: This is known.
Banner: I don’t know why everyone believes that, but that isn’t true. Think about it. If you travel in the past, that past becomes your future. And your former present becomes the past. Which can’t now be changed by your new future.
Nebula: Exactly.
Lang: So Back to the Future is a bunch of bullshit?
You keep arguing like Endgame's rules are the same as Back to the Future. It's apparent you haven't even seen the movie and thus have no right to discuss what does or doesn't happen in it.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 3, 2019 18:05:22 GMT
If Steve A goes back in time and saves Steve B, then B doesn't meet Lang or learn about time travel - he can't do what A did. Meaning B would go on to live a different life than A and never save his past-self. If Steve A saves Steve B, then Steve B doesn't need to meet Lang or learn about time travel or do what Steve A did. Because history has changed and Steve B doesn't need saving anymore. That's how time travel works, not only in BTTF but all other time travel movies. In The City on the Edge of Forever, McCoy goes back to the 1930s and saves Edith Keeler from dying in an traffic accident. LOL They explicitly point out - twice - that BttF and similar movies' rules are bullshit / horseshit. It doesn't work like that because it creates a paradox. They used a set of rules that could actually work because time travel creates a new timeline, meaning they're not changing their timeline, they're creating a new and different timeline which exists separately from their original timeline.
See image below. Back to the Future uses the 'dynamic timeline' rules which creates a paradox. Endgame uses the multiverse rules which does not create a paradox. Lang: But if we go back and get the stones before Thanos gets them, Thanos doesn’t have the stones. Problem solved.
Hawkeye: Bingo.
Nebula: That’s not how it works.
Hawkeye: Well, that’s what I heard.
Banner: What by who? Who told you that?
Rhodey/War Machine: Star Trek. Terminator. Time Cop. Time After Time. Quantum Leap. Wrinkle In Time. Somewhere In Time. Time Machine. Hot Tub Machine. Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure. Basically any movie that deals with time travel. (BttF rules)
Lang: Die Hard? No, that’s not one of them.
Rhodey/War Machine: This is known.
Banner: I don’t know why everyone believes that, but that isn’t true. Think about it. If you travel in the past, that past becomes your future. And your former present becomes the past. Which can’t now be changed by your new future.
Nebula: Exactly.
Lang: So Back to the Future is a bunch of bullshit?
You keep arguing like Endgame's rules are the same as Back to the Future. It's apparent you haven't even seen the movie and thus have no right to discuss what does or doesn't happen in it.
WRONG AGAIN!!! The only bullshit is the bullshit that was written by the Endgame writers. Basically, the Endgame writers are too stupid to understand that time travel isn't linear or sequential. Banner's claim that "If you travel in the past, that past becomes your future. And your former present becomes the past." is complete bullshit because time travel is discrete, not linear or sequential. So the past doesn't "follow" the future.The past and future are discrete points in time and can be accessed in any random order. In BTTF, Marty traveled from 1985 to 1955 to 1985 to 2015 to 1955 to 1855 to 1985. Banner is claiming that 1855 must become the future of 1955 since Marty traveled to 1855 after traveling to 1955. But that is bullshit. Instead of traveling from 1985 to 1955 to 1985 to 2015 to 1955 to 1855 to 1985, Marty could've traveled from 1985 to 2015 to 1855 to 1985 to 1955 to 1985. That's the whole point of time travel. Time travel isn't linear or sequential. Time travel is discrete and time points in the past, present, and future can be accessed in any random order. Moreover, any changes to 1855 would propagate to 1955 and 1985 and 2015 and beyond. And that's not just BTTF. That's all movies with time travel. It's such a simple concept but it seems that the Endgame writers are just too stupid to understand that. Either that or they were just too lazy to write a good time travel story so they just made up a bunch of lame rules that were inconsistent and made no sense at all. It's also ridiculous that the Endgame writers try to discredit all other time travel movies when the entire plot of Endgame basically rips off the plot of Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. The Enterprise traveled back to the late 1980s to bring 2 humpback whales to the future to save the future. The Avengers travel back in time to bring the stones to the future to save the future. A straight rip-off. The only difference is that Star Trek didn't have the huge plothole that Endgame had where 2014 Nebula can access 2023 Nebula's memories and thus 2014 Nebula should know how Thanos and his entire army was defeated in 2023, which means 2014 Thanos would also know how he and his entire army was defeated in 2023. So instead of traveling to 2023 and allowing himself and his entire army to be defeated, 2014 Thanos would've just traveled to 2018 and kill Tony Stark right after Strange gave Thanos the time stone in 2018. That's a HUGE PLOTHOLE!
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Post by poutinep on Jul 3, 2019 18:28:40 GMT
If Steve A saves Steve B, then Steve B doesn't need to meet Lang or learn about time travel or do what Steve A did. Because history has changed and Steve B doesn't need saving anymore. History can't be changed. That's the point. That's MCU canon. Changing history is a paradox. Endgame's time travel rules do not allow the possibility of a paradox.
Basically, the Endgame writers are too stupid to understand that time travel isn't linear or sequential. Banner's claim that "If you travel in the past, that past becomes your future. And your former present becomes the past." is complete bullshit because time travel is discrete, not linear or sequential. So the past doesn't "follow" the future. lol the only one too stupid to understand something is you. You're insisting that there is some kind of objective, standardized set of time travel rules... and there isn't. You keep invoking rules that allow for a paradox. Endgame does not allow for a paradox. Calling it time travel is kind of a misnomer...you can't go back in time, you can go to a different point in time of a different universe, but you can't go back to your own history. You should try actually watching the movie...you might have to rewatch Banner and The Ancient One's conversation a few times because of your comprehension issues. Remember, history can't be changed. That's all movies with time travel. And Banner explicitly said those movies and their rules are bullshit. This is canon. History can't be changed. No paradoxes allowed. 2014 Nebula can access 2023 Nebula's memories and thus 2014 Nebula should know how Thanos and his entire army was defeated in 2023, which means 2014 Thanos would also know how he and his entire army was defeated in 2023 Makes no sense. 2014 Nebula has no way of knowing about Tony's snap before it happens. She can't access memories of 2023 Nebula that don't exist yet. Neither Nebula knows her own future.
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Post by damngumby on Jul 3, 2019 22:16:58 GMT
WRONG AGAIN!!! The only bullshit is the bullshit that was written by the Endgame writers. Basically, the Endgame writers are too stupid to understand that time travel isn't linear or sequential. The Endgame writers are one up on you, cupcake (as are we all). They understand that time travel isn't really a thing ... and you can create your own rules to propel your story. The beauty of the MCU time travel rules is that it avoids the typical time travel paradox that plagues most other time travel stories. So stop stamping your feet and insisting that the MCU must follow the time travel rules from other movies. One of the reasons the MCU is so spectacularly successful is that they don't prescribe to the things you want. If they did then we'd have another BvS or Justice League on our hands ... and dear lord, no one wants that!
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 3, 2019 22:29:01 GMT
I don't know who said 'Steve didn't want to change the timeline and alter history' but whether or not he wanted to is irrelevant. You can't change the past of your own timeline. If you time travel, you create a parallel universe whose history is different from your own timelines based on your actions in that new timeline. Say Steve went back to rescue himself from the arctic the day of the crash so he doesn't get frozen. If he doesn't get frozen, he doesn't get unfrozen by Fury. If he doesn't get unfrozen by Fury in the 21st, he won't meet Scott Lang. If he doesn't meet Lang, he doesn't become aware of time travel so he can't go back and save himself. This is why Endgame doesn't use BttF time travel rules. History can't be changed.
If Steve went back and rescued himself so he doesn't get frozen, the wouldn't need to meet Scott Lang or become aware of time travel or go back to save himself. Because history has been changed. That's how time travel works, not only in BTTF but all other time travel movies. In The City on the Edge of Forever, McCoy goes back to the 1930s and saves Edith Keeler from dying in an traffic accident. That changes history because Edith Keeler would lead a peace movement in the late 1930s that delays the US from entering WW2, which allows the Nazis to develop the atomic bomb first and win the war. Kirk has to go back and restore the timeline and prevent history from changing by stopping McCoy from saving Edith Keeler. In Star Trek: First Contact, the Borg travel to Earth's past and assimilate humans in the past, which prevents First Contact and the forming of the Federation. The Enterprise has to go back and restore the timeline and prevent history from changing by making sure First Contact occurs. The Engame writers were too lazy and too stupid to write a good time travel story so they made up some lame rules that were inconsistent and made no sense at all. "That's how time travel works" - look at this guy, so deluded that he thinks time travel actually works.
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Post by justanaveragejoe on Jul 4, 2019 1:16:50 GMT
WRONG AGAIN!!! The only bullshit is the bullshit that was written by the Endgame writers. Basically, the Endgame writers are too stupid to understand that time travel isn't linear or sequential. The Endgame writers are one up on you, cupcake (as are we all). They understand that time travel isn't really a thing ... and you can create your own rules to propel your story. The beauty of the MCU time travel rules is that it avoids the typical time travel paradox that plagues most other time travel stories. So stop stamping your feet and insisting that the MCU must follow the time travel rules from other movies. One of the reasons the MCU is so spectacularly successful is that they don't prescribe to the things you want. If they did then we'd have another BvS or Justice League on our hands ... and dear lord, no one wants that! And if Endgame did go by BTTF time travel rules, DC-Troll is would make several threads of How Endgame is a rip off of Back to the Future.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 4, 2019 1:28:01 GMT
you can't go back in time, you can go to a different point in time of a different universe No, you don't travel to an alternate universe. You travel to the SAME UNIVERSE at a different point in time. An alternate universe isn't the same as the universe you're in. For example, in an alternate universe, Jay Garrick may be the Flash instead of Barry Allen, Thomas Wayne may be Batman instead of Bruce Wayne, Lex Luthor might be a hero instead of a villain, and the Federation may be ruled by an Emperor or Caesar and their mission is not peace and exploration but conquering other worlds (like in the mirror universe). The Avengers didn't travel to an alternate universe. The Avengers traveled to a different point in time within the SAME UNIVERSE. That's why everything was the same, until they do something in the past to change things. Everything before that point is the same and it's after that point that things change. For example, in The City on the Edge of Forever, everything is the same until McCoy saves Edith Keeler from dying in a traffic accident and sets in motion a change that alters history and Kirk has to go back and correct the change. In Star Trek: First Contact, everything is the same until the Borg travel to Earth's past and alters history by preventing First Contact and the Enterprise has to go back and correct the change. you can't go back to your own history. Yes, you can. That's what time travel is. Traveling to your past or to your future. Yes, it can with time travel. McCoy changed history when he went back to the 1930s and saved Edith Keeler from dying in a traffic accident. The Borg changed history when they went to Earth's past and prevented First Contact. Banner explicitly said those movies and their rules are bullshit. And Banner's claim is bullshit. History can't be changed. Yes, it can with time travel. McCoy changed history when he went back to the 1930s and saved Edith Keeler from dying in a traffic accident. The Borg changed history when they went to Earth's past and prevented First Contact. 2014 Nebula has no way of knowing about Tony's snap before it happens. She can't access memories of 2023 Nebula that don't exist yet. You're still looking at it from a linear or sequential perspective. And so did the Endgame writers. That's why the Endgame writers were too stupid to realize the flaw in the plot and too stupid to realize that the plot of Endgame is a HUGE PLOTHOLE.2023 Nebula's memories an hour into the movie and 2023 Nebula's memories at the end of the movie at both just future points in time to 2014 Nebula so if 2014 Nebula can access 2023 Nebula's memories an hour into the movie, then 2014 Nebula can also access 2023 Nebula's memories at the end of the movie. It's no different than when Marty traveled to October 2015 and saw the sign that said the Cubs won the World Series. If Marty had traveled a few months further to February 2016, Marty might have seen a sign or newspaper headline that said the Broncos won Super Bowl 50.
"But, but, but February 2016 hadn't happened yet in BTTF2". LOL!!! October 2015 and February 2016 are both just future points in time for 1985 Marty. So 1985 Marty can travel to February 2016 just as easily as to October 2015. Similarly, 2023 Nebula's memories an hour into the movie (when the Avengers are trying to retrieve the stones in the past) and 2023 Nebula's memories at the end of the movie (when Thanos and his entire army are defeated in 2023) are both just future points in time for 2014 Nebula. So 2014 Nebula can access 2023 Nebula's memories at the end of the movie just as easily as 2023 Nebula's memories an hour into the movie.
So 2014 Nebula would already know that 2014 Thanos and his entire army traveled to 2023 and were defeated in 2023. That means 2014 Thanos would also know how he and his entire army would be defeated in 2023 and thus Thanos wouldn't travel to 2023 and instead just travel to 2018 and kill Tony Stark right after Strange gave Thanos the time stone in 2018. So Strange's so-called "winning" scenario is actually a losing scenario and the entire plot of Endgame is a HUGE PLOTHOLE.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 4, 2019 1:35:33 GMT
The Endgame writers are one up on you, cupcake (as are we all). They understand that time travel isn't really a thing ... and you can create your own rules to propel your story. The beauty of the MCU time travel rules is that it avoids the typical time travel paradox that plagues most other time travel stories. So stop stamping your feet and insisting that the MCU must follow the time travel rules from other movies. One of the reasons the MCU is so spectacularly successful is that they don't prescribe to the things you want. If they did then we'd have another BvS or Justice League on our hands ... and dear lord, no one wants that! And if Endgame did go by BTTF time travel rules, DC-Troll is would make several threads of How Endgame is a rip off of Back to the Future. MCU claims that all other movies are wrong on time travel, yet the plot of Endgame basically rips off Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. The Enterprise travels back to the 20th century to get 2 humpback whales and bring them to the future to save the future (their present). The Avengers travel back in time to get the stones and bring them to 2023 to save the future (their present). A complete rip-off. The only difference is that Star Trek didn't have the huge plothole that Endgame has where 2014 Nebula can access 2023 Nebula's memories and thus 2014 Nebula knows that 2014 Thanos and his entire army traveled to 2023 and were defeated in 2023, which means that 2014 Thanos also knows and thus 2014 Thanos wouldn't have traveled to 2023 and instead just travel to 2018 and kill Tony Stark after Strange gave Thanos the time stone in 2018. So Strange's so-called "winning" scenario is actually a losing scenario and the entire plot of Endgame is a HUGE PLOTHOLE.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 4, 2019 1:39:06 GMT
you can't go back in time, you can go to a different point in time of a different universe No, you don't travel to an alternate universe. You travel to the SAME UNIVERSE at a different point in time. An alternate universe isn't the same as the universe you're in. For example, in an alternate universe, Jay Garrick may be the Flash instead of Barry Allen, Thomas Wayne may be Batman instead of Bruce Wayne, Lex Luthor might be a hero instead of a villain, and the Federation may be ruled by an Emperor or Caesar and their mission is not peace and exploration but conquering other worlds (like in the mirror universe). The Avengers didn't travel to an alternate universe. The Avengers traveled to a different point in time within the SAME UNIVERSE. That's why everything was the same, until they do something in the past to change things. Everything before that point is the same and it's after that point that things change. For example, in The City on the Edge of Forever, everything is the same until McCoy saves Edith Keeler from dying in a traffic accident and sets in motion a change that alters history and Kirk has to go back and correct the change. In Star Trek: First Contact, everything is the same until the Borg travel to Earth's past and alters history by preventing First Contact and the Enterprise has to go back and correct the change. you can't go back to your own history. Yes, you can. That's what time travel is. Traveling to your past or to your future. Yes, it can with time travel. McCoy changed history when he went back to the 1930s and saved Edith Keeler from dying in a traffic accident. The Borg changed history when they went to Earth's past and prevented First Contact. Banner explicitly said those movies and their rules are bullshit. And Banner's claim is bullshit. History can't be changed. Yes, it can with time travel. McCoy changed history when he went back to the 1930s and saved Edith Keeler from dying in a traffic accident. The Borg changed history when they went to Earth's past and prevented First Contact. 2014 Nebula has no way of knowing about Tony's snap before it happens. She can't access memories of 2023 Nebula that don't exist yet. You're still looking at it from a linear or sequential perspective. And so did the Endgame writers. That's why the Endgame writers were too stupid to realize the flaw in the plot and too stupid to realize that the plot of Endgame is a HUGE PLOTHOLE.2023 Nebula's memories an hour into the movie and 2023 Nebula's memories at the end of the movie at both just future points in time to 2014 Nebula so if 2014 Nebula can access 2023 Nebula's memories an hour into the movie, then 2014 Nebula can also access 2023 Nebula's memories at the end of the movie. It's no different than when Marty traveled to October 2015 and saw the sign that said the Cubs won the World Series. If Marty had traveled a few months further to February 2016, Marty might have seen a sign or newspaper headline that said the Broncos won Super Bowl 50.
"But, but, but February 2016 hadn't happened yet in BTTF2". LOL!!! October 2015 and February 2016 are both just future points in time for 1985 Marty. So 1985 Marty can travel to February 2016 just as easily as to October 2015. Similarly, 2023 Nebula's memories an hour into the movie (when the Avengers are trying to retrieve the stones in the past) and 2023 Nebula's memories at the end of the movie (when Thanos and his entire army are defeated in 2023) are both just future points in time for 2014 Nebula. So 2014 Nebula can access 2023 Nebula's memories at the end of the movie just as easily as 2023 Nebula's memories an hour into the movie.
So 2014 Nebula would already know that 2014 Thanos and his entire army traveled to 2023 and were defeated in 2023. That means 2014 Thanos would also know how he and his entire army would be defeated in 2023 and thus Thanos wouldn't travel to 2023 and instead just travel to 2018 and kill Tony Stark right after Strange gave Thanos the time stone in 2018. So Strange's so-called "winning" scenario is actually a losing scenario and the entire plot of Endgame is a HUGE PLOTHOLE.
And here we see DC-Fan making more stuff up and lying through his teeth.
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Post by justanaveragejoe on Jul 4, 2019 1:55:42 GMT
And if Endgame did go by BTTF time travel rules, DC-Troll is would make several threads of How Endgame is a rip off of Back to the Future. MCU claims that all other movies are wrong on time travel, yet the plot of Endgame basically rips off Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. The Enterprise travels back to the 20th century to get 2 humpback whales and bring them to the future to save the future (their present). The Avengers travel back in time to get the stones and bring them to 2023 to save the future (their present). A complete rip-off. The only difference is that Star Trek didn't have the huge plothole that Endgame has where 2014 Nebula can access 2023 Nebula's memories and thus 2014 Nebula knows that 2014 Thanos and his entire army traveled to 2023 and were defeated in 2023, which means that 2014 Thanos also knows and thus 2014 Thanos wouldn't have traveled to 2023 and instead just travel to 2018 and kill Tony Stark after Strange gave Thanos the time stone in 2018. So Strange's so-called "winning" scenario is actually a losing scenario and the entire plot of Endgame is a HUGE PLOTHOLE. Not sure how that is a rip off. Did they have to recreate something using the humpback whales like the Avengers had to recreate the gauntlet with the Infinity Stones to bring everybody back? Also how can 2014 Nebula access 2023 Nebula's memories if they haven't happened already? They figured out the Avengers' plan by accessing present Nebula's past memories. You cannot access to someone's future memories because they haven't happened already, dumbfuck. Unless you can predict the future.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 4, 2019 2:17:38 GMT
MCU claims that all other movies are wrong on time travel, yet the plot of Endgame basically rips off Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. The Enterprise travels back to the 20th century to get 2 humpback whales and bring them to the future to save the future (their present). The Avengers travel back in time to get the stones and bring them to 2023 to save the future (their present). A complete rip-off. The only difference is that Star Trek didn't have the huge plothole that Endgame has where 2014 Nebula can access 2023 Nebula's memories and thus 2014 Nebula knows that 2014 Thanos and his entire army traveled to 2023 and were defeated in 2023, which means that 2014 Thanos also knows and thus 2014 Thanos wouldn't have traveled to 2023 and instead just travel to 2018 and kill Tony Stark after Strange gave Thanos the time stone in 2018. So Strange's so-called "winning" scenario is actually a losing scenario and the entire plot of Endgame is a HUGE PLOTHOLE.Not sure how that is a rip off. Did they have to recreate something using the humpback whales like the Avengers had to recreate the gauntlet with the Infinity Stones to bring everybody back? Yes, the Enterprise crew had to create an aquarium tank on the ship that was large enough to hold 2 humpback whales as well as thousands of pounds of water. how can 2014 Nebula access 2023 Nebula's memories if they haven't happened already? They figured out the Avengers' plan by accessing present Nebula's past memories. You cannot access to someone's future memories because they haven't happened already The same way that 1985 Marty can find out who wins Super Bowl 50 in February 2016 by traveling to February 2016.
"But, but, but . . . 1985 Marty can't travel to February 2016 because 2016 hasn't happened yet for 1985 Marty." LOL!!!
So 1985 Marty can travel to October 2015 (which hasn't happened yet for 1985 Marty) but 1985 Marty can't travel to February 2016 (which hasn't happened yet for 1985 Marty). That's basically what you're saying when you say 2014 Nebula can't access 2023 Nebula's memories at the end of the movie because they haven't happened yet. LOL!!!Like I've explained many times before (and which you and many other MCU fans just don't seem to understand this simple concept), 1985 Marty can travel to October 2015 or February 2016 or even later because those are all just future points in time to 1985 Marty. Similarly, 2014 Nebula can access 2023 Nebula's memories an hour into the movie (when the Avengers are trying to retrieve the stones in the past) or 2023 Nebula's memories at the end of the movie (when 2014 Thanos and his entire army is defeated in 2023) because those are all just future points in time to 2014 Nebula. Here's the key point: Time travel doesn't follow a linear or sequential path. Time travel is discrete so there's no such thing as "can't know that information because that hasn't happened yet" because the whole point of time travel is that a person can always travel to the discrete future point in time when that event happens or that information is known.
Think of the difference between watching a movie for the 1st time in a theater vs watching a movie on DVD. In a theater, when you've only seen the 1st hour of the movie, of course you don't know what happens at the end of the movie because you're watching the movie in a linear, sequential order. When watching a DVD, you can know what happens at the end of the movie even before you've watched the 1st 5 minutes of the movie.
Same with 2023 Nebula's memories. 2014 Nebula can access 2023 Nebula's memories at the end of the movie (just as easily as she can access 2023 Nebula's memories an hour into the movie) because both are just future points in time for 2014 Nebula and 2014 Nebula can access those memories at any point and in any random order the same way you can watch the end of a movie on DVD before watching the first hour of the movie. This is such a simple concept, it's just astonishing how so many MCU fans still don't understand this simple concept.
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Post by poutinep on Jul 4, 2019 2:19:41 GMT
you can't go back in time, you can go to a different point in time of a different universe No, you don't travel to an alternate universe. You travel to the SAME UNIVERSE at a different point in time.
jesus man. Every sentence you type proves you haven't seen the movie. You don't travel to the same universe. This was explained in the Banner/Ancient One conversation. Time travel creates a "branched" (alternate) universe. The Ancient One : The Infinity stones create what you experience as the flow of time. Remove one stone and that flow splits. Now, this may benefit your reality but my new one, not so much. In this new branched reality, without our chief weapon against the forces of darkness, our world will be over run. Millions will suffer. So, tell me Doctor, can your science prevent all that? You can't go back to your own past. You can't change your past. You can't change history. You can only create a branched reality. Those are the rules. Bruce, Tony, and The Ancient One stated those rules. You don't get to make the rules. All you're saying is that their rules are different than what the characters say, which makes you an imbecile.
So 2014 Nebula would already know that 2014 Thanos and his entire army traveled to 2023 and were defeated in 2023.
WRONG! 2014 Nebula never knew Thanos was defeated because she was killed before Tony's snap. jesus watching the fucking move, loser.
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Post by Vassaggo on Jul 4, 2019 2:24:20 GMT
MCU claims that all other movies are wrong on time travel, yet the plot of Endgame basically rips off Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. The Enterprise travels back to the 20th century to get 2 humpback whales and bring them to the future to save the future (their present). The Avengers travel back in time to get the stones and bring them to 2023 to save the future (their present). A complete rip-off. The only difference is that Star Trek didn't have the huge plothole that Endgame has where 2014 Nebula can access 2023 Nebula's memories and thus 2014 Nebula knows that 2014 Thanos and his entire army traveled to 2023 and were defeated in 2023, which means that 2014 Thanos also knows and thus 2014 Thanos wouldn't have traveled to 2023 and instead just travel to 2018 and kill Tony Stark after Strange gave Thanos the time stone in 2018. So Strange's so-called "winning" scenario is actually a losing scenario and the entire plot of Endgame is a HUGE PLOTHOLE.Not sure how that is a rip off. Did they have to recreate something using the humpback whales like the Avengers had to recreate the gauntlet with the Infinity Stones to bring everybody back? Also how can 2014 Nebula access 2023 Nebula's memories if they haven't happened already? They figured out the Avengers' plan by accessing present Nebula's past memories. You cannot access to someone's future memories because they haven't happened already, dumbfuck. Unless you can predict the future. It would be analogous to you going back in time week with your lap top (now called Present Laptop). When you get there your lap top auto logins on your wifi. While you were back in time a week last week lap top (Old Laptop) could access all the files of Present laptop. So Old Laptop could know any files on the Present Laptop including the week of Files in Old Laptop's future. That's it though. Old Laptop can't access any files that would be added further in time on Present Laptop because it's not on Present Laptops hard drive before it left to go back in time. Old Laptop also can't access the files on Present Laptop once it goes back to the present as it's not on the same wifi network with Old Laptop anymore when it leaves the time period. It's common sense really.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 4, 2019 2:26:48 GMT
2014 Nebula never knew Thanos was defeated because she was killed before Tony's snap. jesus watching the fucking move, loser. WRONG AGAIN!!! You're basically saying that if Marty was killed in a car accident in 1986, then he would never know who won the World Series in October 2015 because he died before the World Series in 2015 happened. LOL!!! 1985 Marty already knows who won the World Series in October 2015 because he could travel to October 2015. So there's no such thing as "Well, 1985 Marty can't know what happens in October 2015 or February 2016 because those times haven't happened yet for 1985 Marty". Similarly, there's no such thing as "Well, 2014 Nebula can't know how Thanos and his entire army was defeated in 2023 because that hasn't happened yet or 2014 Nebula was killed before that happened". Time travel doesn't follow a linear or sequential path. Time travel is discrete so there's no such thing as "can't know that information because that hasn't happened yet" because the whole point of time travel is that a person can always travel to the discrete future point in time when that event happens or that information is known.
Think of the difference between watching a movie for the 1st time in a theater vs watching a movie on DVD. In a theater, when you've only seen the 1st hour of the movie, of course you don't know what happens at the end of the movie because you're watching the movie in a linear, sequential order. When watching a DVD, you can know what happens at the end of the movie even before you've watched the 1st 5 minutes of the movie.
Same with 2023 Nebula's memories. 2014 Nebula can access 2023 Nebula's memories at the end of the movie (just as easily as she can access 2023 Nebula's memories an hour into the movie) because both are just future points in time for 2014 Nebula and 2014 Nebula can access those memories at any point and in any random order the same way you can watch the end of a movie on DVD before watching the first hour of the movie. This is such a simple concept, it's just astonishing how so many MCU fans still don't understand this simple concept.
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Post by poutinep on Jul 4, 2019 2:55:47 GMT
2014 Nebula never knew Thanos was defeated because she was killed before Tony's snap. jesus watching the fucking move, loser. WRONG AGAIN!!! You're basically saying that if Marty was killed in a car accident in 1986, then he would never know who won the World Series in October 2015 because he died before the World Series in 2015 happened. LOL!!! Yes exactly. Dead people don't know what happens after they die. That's part of being dead...you stop learning stuff. if you die tomorrow, are you going to hear who wins the next Super Bowl? Similarly, there's no such thing as "Well, 2014 Nebula can't know how Thanos and his entire army was defeated in 2023 because that hasn't happened yet or 2014 Nebula was killed before that happened". but she never did travel to a point after Tony's snap, so there is no way for her to have known about it or tell her Thanos about it now is there?
Time travel doesn't follow a linear or sequential path. Time travel is discrete so there's no such thing as "can't know that information because that hasn't happened yet" because the whole point of time travel is that a person can always travel to the discrete future point in time when that event happens or that information is known.
Well, they can, but they still have to actually do it to learn what's going to happen. 2014 Nebula never lived at any point after Tony's snap, so there is no way she could have known it would happen. no one just knows everything that's ever going to happen. Same with 2023 Nebula's memories. 2014 Nebula can access 2023 Nebula's memories at the end of the movie (just as easily as she can access 2023 Nebula's memories an hour into the movie) because both are just future points in time for 2014 Nebula and 2014 Nebula can access those memories at any point and in any random order the same way you can watch the end of a movie on DVD before watching the first hour of the movie. This is such a simple concept, it's just astonishing how so many MCU fans still don't understand this simple concept.Neither version of Nebula was aware of Tony's snap by the time 2014 Nebula died. 2014 Neb can't access memories from other Nebula unless they're in the same time. Otherwise she wouldn't have had to access 2023 Neb's memories she would have had them before she went back.
this is dumb. you haven't seen the movie. no one who has seen the movie would say the stupid shit you say. If you haven't learned by now you're not going to. Good luck, K.
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Post by justanaveragejoe on Jul 4, 2019 3:06:08 GMT
Not sure how that is a rip off. Did they have to recreate something using the humpback whales like the Avengers had to recreate the gauntlet with the Infinity Stones to bring everybody back? Yes, the Enterprise crew had to create an aquarium tank on the ship that was large enough to hold 2 humpback whales as well as thousands of pounds of water. how can 2014 Nebula access 2023 Nebula's memories if they haven't happened already? They figured out the Avengers' plan by accessing present Nebula's past memories. You cannot access to someone's future memories because they haven't happened already The same way that 1985 Marty can find out who wins Super Bowl 50 in February 2016 by traveling to February 2016.
"But, but, but . . . 1985 Marty can't travel to February 2016 because 2016 hasn't happened yet for 1985 Marty." LOL!!!
So 1985 Marty can travel to October 2015 (which hasn't happened yet for 1985 Marty) but 1985 Marty can't travel to February 2016 (which hasn't happened yet for 1985 Marty). That's basically what you're saying when you say 2014 Nebula can't access 2023 Nebula's memories at the end of the movie because they haven't happened yet. LOL!!!Like I've explained many times before (and which you and many other MCU fans just don't seem to understand this simple concept), 1985 Marty can travel to October 2015 or February 2016 or even later because those are all just future points in time to 1985 Marty. Similarly, 2014 Nebula can access 2023 Nebula's memories an hour into the movie (when the Avengers are trying to retrieve the stones in the past) or 2023 Nebula's memories at the end of the movie (when 2014 Thanos and his entire army is defeated in 2023) because those are all just future points in time to 2014 Nebula. Here's the key point: Time travel doesn't follow a linear or sequential path. Time travel is discrete so there's no such thing as "can't know that information because that hasn't happened yet" because the whole point of time travel is that a person can always travel to the discrete future point in time when that event happens or that information is known.
Think of the difference between watching a movie for the 1st time in a theater vs watching a movie on DVD. In a theater, when you've only seen the 1st hour of the movie, of course you don't know what happens at the end of the movie because you're watching the movie in a linear, sequential order. When watching a DVD, you can know what happens at the end of the movie even before you've watched the 1st 5 minutes of the movie.
Same with 2023 Nebula's memories. 2014 Nebula can access 2023 Nebula's memories at the end of the movie (just as easily as she can access 2023 Nebula's memories an hour into the movie) because both are just future points in time for 2014 Nebula and 2014 Nebula can access those memories at any point and in any random order the same way you can watch the end of a movie on DVD before watching the first hour of the movie. You gotta stop using Back to the Future for your arguments because Hulk made it clear, that Back to the Future time travel rules are bullshit. Therefore you're just spewing bullshit. And time travel DOES follow a linear or sequential path in ....wait for it....Endgame. Here's the beauty of time travel 1). It doesn't exist, and 2). Because it doesn't exist, you can make the rules, you can make your logic. But since you want the time travel in Endgame like it is Back to the Future, you're just going to repeat yourself like a total fucking loser.
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