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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Apr 17, 2017 22:53:23 GMT
What do you say to a relative, with whom you have to stay in contact, when that relative says, "I'll pray for you" or more specifically "I'll pray that (xyz) happens."
Examples might be, getting a new job when you know there are no jobs that pay as much as you make now, or that you get a raise when you know your company has a hold on raises at the time.
When the wrong outcome becomes obvious, what do you say? "Well, you must not have prayed hard enough", which is pretty snarky. Or something a bit gentler, like, "well, god must have been busy when you prayed", or "apparently the CFO of our company outranks god."
I guess I am looking for a way to not offend a little old lady who's beliefs have supported her all her life, but to say something that discourages that statement in the future.
My aged mother has been praying for me to not be in a traffic accident since 2003 when I got a job with a super-long commute. I've had only two minor accidents before the age of twenty, and I'm in my sixties now. I am a really focused, attentive driver, always watching what the traffic around me is doing. I detour around accidents ahead posted on the Traffic Billboard, take back routes when traffic is heavy, or wait for the rush to slow down. My mother takes my history of no accidents on this long commute as EVIDENCE that her prayers are working (and I'm not willing to have an accident just to prove her wrong, though it's fun to picture the scenario!)
I just get tired of the constant insistence of invoking her super-natural invisible friend.
Any ideas on a comment that will avoid a full-blown rant about my disbelief in a deity, and leave her befuddled enough that she never makes the statement again? Christians were great at non-answering my questions by making me feel guilty to even question, but it doesn't work in reverse, unfortunately. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Apr 17, 2017 22:57:46 GMT
This is a good question because I never understood why they need to say anything.
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Post by thefleetsin on Apr 17, 2017 22:59:13 GMT
let her know that you maintain an active altar to osiris.
and if she gets all pissy; well, she can find comfort in her imaginary friend and you in yours.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Apr 17, 2017 23:38:59 GMT
I don't really think much of it. When someone says "I'll pray for you", I just see it as a theistic language way of basically saying "I hope you pull through". Even as a non believer, I might occasionally say "goddammit" even though I don't actually believe in God, so I don't really get morally outraged over "I'll pray for you" since I just see it more as a vague expression at this point.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2017 23:52:35 GMT
Be nice to your mother. She's not trying to upset you.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 0:01:01 GMT
What do you say to a relative, with whom you have to stay in contact, when that relative says, "I'll pray for you" or more specifically "I'll pray that (xyz) happens." I say "thanks". In my experience people mean one of two things when they say they will pray for you. 1) I care about you and hope good things happen to you. 2) I pity you for being so obviously lost, and hold you in contempt. The former is a genuinely good thought and I welcome it. And after all, the one thing both atheists and believers can agree on 100% is that prayer doesn't hurt. The latter version of the phrase rarely comes from family or friends, at least in my experience. Well, no. That would be about like somebody wishing you luck in a race and then you lose and walk over to them and say "Well your wishes of luck are a bag of shite, and so are you!" You wouldn't do that unless you were a colossal dick, right? Why discourage her? My Grandmother was deeply religious, and told me she was praying for me countless times. She had no idea I was an atheist, and I saw no reason to tell her so or discourage her from praying for me. It was a way to express that she cared, and it made her feel like she was helping. Where's the harm? Incidentally, she DID know that my folks and I didn't go to church, and told her priest that this worried her as she didn't want us to go to hell. He pointed out all the good things my folks had done in their lives (they were foster parents, for one), and told her she had no worries and god would understand and "know his own, even if they were only his own in their hearts". I never met the man myself, but all by himself he slightly raised my opinion of the catholic church. Just take it how it's meant and leave it at that. |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Apr 18, 2017 0:01:12 GMT
let her know that you maintain an active altar to osiris. and if she gets all pissy; well, she can find comfort in her imaginary friend and you in yours. LOL! Actually, I am more partial to Babi God of baboons or Bast/Bastet the Cat goddess, neither of which she would recognize.
Perhaps I should mention meditating under a Bodhi tree like Buddha. Or making vegetarian sacrifices to Krishna... but it hasn't worked yet. 
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Apr 18, 2017 0:12:45 GMT
What do you say to a relative, with whom you have to stay in contact, when that relative says, "I'll pray for you" or more specifically "I'll pray that (xyz) happens." I say "thanks". In my experience people mean one of two things when they say they will pray for you. 1) I care about you and hope good things happen to you. 2) I pity you for being so obviously lost, and hold you in contempt. The former is a genuinely good thought and I welcome it. And after all, the one thing both atheists and believers can agree on 100% is that prayer doesn't hurt. The latter version of the phrase rarely comes from family or friends, at least in my experience. Well, no. That would be about like somebody wishing you luck in a race and then you lose and walk over to them and say "Well your wishes of luck are a bag of shite, and so are you!" You wouldn't do that unless you were a colossal dick, right? Why discourage her? My Grandmother was deeply religious, and told me she was praying for me countless times. She had no idea I was an atheist, and I saw no reason to tell her so or discourage her from praying for me. It was a way to express that she cared, and it made her feel like she was helping. Where's the harm? Incidentally, she DID know that my folks and I didn't go to church, and told her priest that this worried her as she didn't want us to go to hell. He pointed out all the good things my folks had done in their lives (they were foster parents, for one), and told her she had no worries and god would understand and "know his own, even if they were only his own in their hearts". I never met the man myself, but all by himself he slightly raised my opinion of the catholic church. Just take it how it's meant and leave it at that. By Jove, I think you've got it! ;-) Next time she says she will pray for xyz, I'll say "Can't hurt; might help... 'Bye!"
I just get tired of the constant insistence of invoking her super-natural invisible friend in an attempt to drag me back to church. She's passive/aggressive. The pressure is always there. She will not just leave it be.
Edit: I wish her minister would tell her what your grandmother's priest told her; it's brilliant.
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Post by 🌵 on Apr 18, 2017 0:29:28 GMT
My family isn't really religious, but outside of my family I have occasionally encountered people who say such things. Usually I just respond with something like "okay" or "thanks" or whatever. I see no need to discourage them from saying such things to me in the future. Why do you want to discourage it? Why does it bother you if people invoke their "invisible friend"? Just curious.
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Post by islandmur on Apr 18, 2017 0:53:30 GMT
This must be one of the most spiteful thing i've read on a forum to date.
You are 60 so your mother must be in her 80's?
Pretty soon she won't bother you with her invisible friend anymore.
How dare she pray for you to be well!
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Post by rizdek on Apr 18, 2017 2:17:43 GMT
What do you say to a relative, with whom you have to stay in contact, when that relative says, "I'll pray for you" Nothin' I just smile and imagine they said, "I'll be thinking of you." |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Apr 18, 2017 2:49:34 GMT
My family isn't really religious, but outside of my family I have occasionally encountered people who say such things. Usually I just respond with something like "okay" or "thanks" or whatever. I see no need to discourage them from saying such things to me in the future. Why do you want to discourage it? Why does it bother you if people invoke their "invisible friend"? Just curious. If it is just a casual acquaintance, it's not an issue. I do have friends that are religious or spiritual, and we respectfully agree to disagree.
I respect my mother's right to be a believer, why will she not respect my right to not be a believer? Why is she always trying to convert me back to a religion that seriously damaged my life?
In general, we atheists just let certain comments pass and walk away from certain discussions because it won't change anyone's mind and will just stir up controversy. But if a group of atheists had a similar conversation, the believers wouldn't simply walk away. They would aggressively intrude on the situation. They think they have the right to impose their beliefs on others.
If only everyone would live and let live...
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Apr 18, 2017 3:08:45 GMT
This must be one of the most spiteful thing i've read on a forum to date. You are 60 so your mother must be in her 80's? Pretty soon she won't bother you with her invisible friend anymore. How dare she pray for you to be well! She doesn't pray for me to be well, she prays for me to convert back to her belief system. She doesn't respect my right to choose what I believe or don't believe. I never actively or passively try to destroy or change her belief system. She doesn't give me the same respect. I thought mothers were supposed to accept their children unconditionally.
My Dad did, despite my disbelief.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Apr 18, 2017 4:14:53 GMT
rachelcarson1953That isn't how this works. She would be a horrible parent if she didn't want you to believe how she did since I can only assume it means salvation in some form or another. This has nothing to do with how hurt your feelings are, but rather how much she loves you. If you had kids that did things you wish they didn't do, you would be reacting similarly except in a purely secular way. That's what good parents are supposed to do. My kids better not ever have the nerve to tell me I can't keep to my own opinions and hopes for them or lie to them. You are in no way required to believe as she does just as she is in no way required to pretend that the path you chose is the correct one in her mind.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 4:29:21 GMT
To answer your question I think the best way to go about it is nodding your head like whatever and then changing the subject to something else. Just tell yourself its not a big deal because it really isn't.. its just stupid stuff that doesnt have to be thought about or over analyzed.
but if you want to say something just once...heres something that happened with me:
This was actually something a girl said to me that shocked me to silence when i used to be religious.. i said something like "I prayed to God that I wouldnt be late for class when I was running like a crazy person to make it there on time and it worked!! I wasn't late!! it was a miracle!!" (probably not exact wording but whatever lmfao)
and her response was "Even if you didn't pray you would have still made it on time." very bluntly.. lol i didn't know what to say back because i knew she was right
But my family is so diverse with beliefs.. so for me its all different.. my oldest brother would be the worst but even he isnt all that bad anymore and i think he learned to stop shoving it down our throats.. i saw my family on easter and religion wasnt brought up at all and it felt so amazing lol.. only a few minor comments/jokes about God creating things the way they are but that's it.. My mom did say she thought it was weird that I had to work on Easter but Easter doesnt mean anything to some people.. that might not have anything to do with religion though but whatever it could be...
And i did tell my mom and one of my older sisters earlier last week that i dont go to church anymore and they didn't care.. but my oldest brother and maybe my oldest sister would if i told them. its hard to know everyone's reaction tbh. i really think my family is at a point where we have accepted we are all so different in many ways when it comes to personality and beliefs especially.
i havent told anyone in my family that i dont believe in God though specifically.. but i think honestly they would just be surprised but not angry..and may just ask why i came to the conclusion out of curiosity alone and not debate me about it and leave it alone (im hoping) None of them are just used to that idea of God not existing.. My dad even calls atheists the "nothings" and said he felt "sorry for them" so i definitely didnt want to tell him i was atheist at that moment.. i think my response was something like "some people do completely fine without religion and find meaning in life in other ways" and he actually understood my point..
i think with my dad is that he is used to how he was raised and often he would make comments about things he was told to believe growing up..and when being challenged he doesnt know how to back up his comments.. and his reactions typically go like" wow I just learned something today" when proven his comments were flawed. but ever since he became open minded (which i dont really know where it came from tbh but glad he is now) makes him open to listen and change his mind.. hes okay with abortion and gay marriage now which he was completely against before.
everyone in my family is changing drastically even now with their beliefs.. its hard to keep up lmao.. but i would definitely say there was a point in our lives where some of us were very strict religious and more judgemental.. but that really was a long time ago tbh. I was just having a conversation with my sister that all of us are so different that it would just be expected for us to fight.. and its kind of true.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Apr 18, 2017 5:11:36 GMT
rachelcarson1953 That isn't how this works. She would be a horrible parent if she didn't want you to believe how she did since I can only assume it means salvation in some form or another. This has nothing to do with how hurt your feelings are, but rather how much she loves you. If you had kids that did things you wish they didn't do, you would be reacting similarly except in a purely secular way. That's what good parents are supposed to do. My kids better not ever have the nerve to tell me I can't keep to my own opinions and hopes for them or lie to them. You are in no way required to believe as she does just as she is in no way required to pretend that the path you chose is the correct one in her mind. So you are the one who decides how it works?
You said:
I say:
The blade cuts both ways. This thread was addressed to atheists, not believers. |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Apr 18, 2017 5:33:05 GMT
To answer your question I think the best way to go about it is nodding your head like whatever and then changing the subject to something else. Just tell yourself its not a big deal because it really isn't.. its just stupid stuff that doesnt have to be thought about or over analyzed. but if you want to say something just once...heres something that happened with me: This was actually something a girl said to me that shocked me to silence when i used to be religious.. i said something like "I prayed to God that I wouldnt be late for class when I was running like a crazy person to make it there on time and it worked!! I wasn't late!! it was a miracle!!" (probably not exact wording but whatever lmfao) and her response was "Even if you didn't pray you would have still made it on time." very bluntly.. lol i didn't know what to say back because i knew she was right But my family is so diverse with beliefs.. so for me its all different.. my oldest brother would be the worst but even he isnt all that bad anymore and i think he learned to stop shoving it down our throats.. i saw my family on easter and religion wasnt brought up at all and it felt so amazing lol.. only a few minor comments/jokes about God creating things the way they are but that's it.. My mom did say she thought it was weird that I had to work on Easter but Easter doesnt mean anything to some people.. that might not have anything to do with religion though but whatever it could be... And i did tell my mom and one of my older sisters earlier last week that i dont go to church anymore and they didn't care.. but my oldest brother and maybe my oldest sister would if i told them. its hard to know everyone's reaction tbh. i really think my family is at a point where we have accepted we are all so different in many ways when it comes to personality and beliefs especially. i havent told anyone in my family that i dont believe in God though specifically.. but i think honestly they would just be surprised but not angry..and may just ask why i came to the conclusion out of curiosity alone and not debate me about it and leave it alone (im hoping) None of them are just used to that idea of God not existing.. My dad even calls atheists the "nothings" and said he felt "sorry for them" so i definitely didnt want to tell him i was atheist at that moment.. i think my response was something like "some people do completely fine without religion and find meaning in life in other ways" and he actually understood my point.. i think with my dad is that he is used to how he was raised and often he would make comments about things he was told to believe growing up..and when being challenged he doesnt know how to back up his comments.. and his reactions typically go like" wow I just learned something today" when proven his comments were flawed. but ever since he became open minded (which i dont really know where it came from tbh but glad he is now) makes him open to listen and change his mind.. hes okay with abortion and gay marriage now which he was completely against before. everyone in my family is changing drastically even now with their beliefs.. its hard to keep up lmao.. but i would definitely say there was a point in our lives where some of us were very strict religious and more judgemental.. but that really was a long time ago tbh. I was just having a conversation with my sister that all of us are so different that it would just be expected for us to fight.. and its kind of true. Thanks for your perspective, Monica.
Your story about running to make it to class on time, praying that you would make it, and your friend's response brought back memories. I have a similar story.
You are fortunate that your dad is open to listen and change his mind. You have a real chance to maintain a genuine relationship with him. My relationship with my mother will always be superficial, and I will always be changing the subject. My dad was different than my mother, and despite our worldview differences, we were the best of friends. We shared so many other things in common; love of nature and animals. I miss him every day.
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Post by islandmur on Apr 18, 2017 9:53:40 GMT
This must be one of the most spiteful thing i've read on a forum to date. You are 60 so your mother must be in her 80's? Pretty soon she won't bother you with her invisible friend anymore. How dare she pray for you to be well! She doesn't pray for me to be well, she prays for me to convert back to her belief system. She doesn't respect my right to choose what I believe or don't believe. I never actively or passively try to destroy or change her belief system. She doesn't give me the same respect. I thought mothers were supposed to accept their children unconditionally.
My Dad did, despite my disbelief.
You claimed she prayed for specific things for you as for exemple not to get in a car accident. You added the convert to her beliefs after you recieved a mild rebuke. Now it's about her not respecting your right to choose. Are you certain you are 60? Guess what? religion or not, nagging or not, passive agressive or not, you're lucky to still have a mother who cares for you so you swallow your annoyances and let her be herself she's not going to change at this late in her life and you enjoy the last few years you will have togheter. This has nothing to do with religion She's not dragging you to church, she's not making you pray... so yeah even if she's being passive agressive about it so what. Is it really now in her 80's that you need to find a way to "befuddle" her enough so she would never pray for you again? really? because you think there is really a way for you to pull this off and NOT hurt your mother deeply ? on a spiritual level? making her think in her last years that she failed to save her son/daughter? If you have some back story on how she was a terrible mother who deserves this so that you won't be annoyed.... let's hear it. And even then it would still be spiteful. |
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Post by Marv on Apr 18, 2017 10:23:13 GMT
I just say thanks. I get the point of the phrase without agreeing with the means. When someone says they'll pray for you it's just to show that your best interest is in their thoughts. Unless it's meant as a 'you're a screwup' kinda way and then I'd probably still say thanks just with a lot more sarcasm.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Apr 18, 2017 14:13:53 GMT
She doesn't pray for me to be well, she prays for me to convert back to her belief system. She doesn't respect my right to choose what I believe or don't believe. I never actively or passively try to destroy or change her belief system. She doesn't give me the same respect. I thought mothers were supposed to accept their children unconditionally.
My Dad did, despite my disbelief.
You claimed she prayed for specific things for you as for exemple not to get in a car accident. You added the convert to her beliefs after you recieved a mild rebuke. Now it's about her not respecting your right to choose. Are you certain you are 60? Guess what? religion or not, nagging or not, passive agressive or not, you're lucky to still have a mother who cares for you so you swallow your annoyances and let her be herself she's not going to change at this late in her life and you enjoy the last few years you will have togheter. This has nothing to do with religion She's not dragging you to church, she's not making you pray... so yeah even if she's being passive agressive about it so what. Is it really now in her 80's that you need to find a way to "befuddle" her enough so she would never pray for you again? really? because you think there is really a way for you to pull this off and NOT hurt your mother deeply ? on a spiritual level? making her think in her last years that she failed to save her son/daughter? If you have some back story on how she was a terrible mother who deserves this so that you won't be annoyed.... let's hear it. And even then it would still be spiteful. Yes, there is a backstory, some of which has appeared in other of my posts, but since I've been pre-judged here, I am not going to post anymore than I already have. Suffice it to say, not every mother is a good one. My Dad was the only real, genuine parent I had. |
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