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Post by darkpast on Mar 10, 2019 21:02:32 GMT
Honestly this isn't even debatable and never was. WW is a hugely popular character and even comic book movie nerds like me had to google search Captain Marvel. It might be and probably will be a hit, but to think it will beat WW??? That ain't happening unless it's a damn good movie, and I mean DAMN good. But of course your scenario involves equal reviews... So why in the blue hell would more people see a D list character over an A list icon if the reviews are the same??? This is like asking whether a Martian Manhunter movie would top a Spiderman movie.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 10, 2019 21:16:56 GMT
At the rate it's going, there's a very good chance CM will outperform WW.
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Post by kleinreturns on Mar 10, 2019 22:04:49 GMT
At the rate it's going, there's a very good chance CM will outperform WW. EXCELLENT!!!
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Post by merh on Mar 10, 2019 23:18:08 GMT
WW opening week- $147 mill CM opening weekend- $153 mill
WW Foreign gross total run -$409 mill CM foreign gross opening weekend- $302 mill
What do you think?
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Mar 22, 2019 22:05:11 GMT
Well it just passed Wonder Woman box office.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 22, 2019 22:43:34 GMT
Glad to see my vote was not mistaken.
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Post by poutinep on Mar 22, 2019 23:07:02 GMT
Assume the reviews are equal, who will win the Box Office world wide totals? Wonder Woman will win easily. The most famous and most iconic female superhero starring in her 1st movie, after 75 years. An Oscar-winning director and 2 attractive and popular stars in Gal Gadot and Chris Pine. derp derp derp
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Post by damngumby on Mar 23, 2019 2:46:12 GMT
Wow ... DC-Fanboy got seriously owned in this thread!
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 29, 2019 23:11:57 GMT
This was one of the most enjoyably correct predictions. So glad to see Carol do so well and even more important her movie is actually better too.
I remember predicting the Soul Stone would show up in Infinity War itself and Heimdal would not have it. Civil War crushed you know, which was a really fun period of time. And way back in early phase 2 I also predicted a Black Widow film could not happen until after Endgame because she didn't advance the larger narrative.
I did think we would likely get another major villain in Endgame like Annihilus, so I got that wrong, but I was certain that it would not be Secret Invasion even after we found out the Skrulls would be in Captain Marvel.
I think what the results of this poll show, is that many still thought DC had natural advantages at the time, especially for those of you who thought this wasn't even a debatable question, and even though it was already clear that Marvel as a whole had become virtually unstoppable by then. One of the points I tried to bring up (and btw I could have expressed myself better 2 years ago), but the point was that companies/brands/etc don't last forever, and this result put an end to the myth that certain characters are just always the most popular in perpetuity.
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Post by Groovy Rachel on Sept 30, 2019 7:26:48 GMT
Captain Marvel wasn't nearly as good as Wonder Woman.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 30, 2019 8:45:03 GMT
Captain Marvel wasn't nearly as good as Wonder Woman. I think Captain Marvel is easily better, with every scene being effective like the Skrull memory machine, the chase sequence, the revelation and confrontation at PEGASUS, playing the black box, and even smaller moments like the bar, or the high level of 90’s detail throughout, young Fury, the Skrull effects, the escape sequences, the stall for time fight, the "you found my family" moment, and Carol flexing Ronan down. Carol is focused and using her wit to solve both a mystery and a threat. Oh and both the score and soundtrack are great, and I especially love the space themes as they are approaching planets or docking ships.
But WW as a film often seems confused. First, Diana literally has no idea what she’s doing. She’s just hoping if she meets enough people she’ll run into ares, who she doesn’t even know exists. She gives up and cries about it for the same reason and would you disagree that the final battle is bad? It even feels tacked on like the whole thing was a reshoot or something when they decided they needed a twist. Sequences like the dress changing could have just been cut altogether, and I’m going to go ahead and tell you that no mans land is a bad scene. There were about 12 bad guys guarding that field which makes spending so much time telling us how impossible it was to cross just nonsense. The army would have been across that field in an afternoon, not camped out for a year, so I actually laugh when that dramatic music starts to swell because they end up winning in 30 seconds. And the film continues to feel confused in how it presents Ares motivations and level of influence along with her mom's ambiguous motivations for not telling her anything and the role of the amazons. As protectors of the world they really weren't aware of WWI? And people fight wars without Ares. Also Steve self downs when he could have just flown away and could she not have powered up without watching him die? Diana is really just walking around a political party as a complete stranger with an obvious sword and nobody asks her about this? The film just constantly feels like it isn't sure why anything is happening.
I would just ask, what exactly is particularly good about WW?
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Post by Groovy Rachel on Sept 30, 2019 9:47:11 GMT
Most of those positives weren't really all that good. The chase sequence was generic and unexciting. A lot of the 90's reference were in your face like the Blockbuster and Radio Shack scenes.
Wonder Woman is on a whole other level from Captain Marvel. The lead was actually a likable character as opposed to the arrogant and unlikable Captain Marvel who was still that way in Endgame.
The cinematography was not even comparable. Captain Marvel has that same generic look as a lot of other MCU movies.
The action was much better. Wonder Woman didn't have the best final action scene but it was still a lot better than Captain Marvel flying around and zapping a few ships which was again generic. The action scene in the middle of the movie was better than any scene in Captain Marvel.
The musical score was vastly better. I don't even remember Captain Marvel's except for that god awful "I'm just a girl".
The twists were better because it was always obvious that Jude Law was going to be the villain, he was too big of a star to just be some side character who appears now and then so that was obvious before the movie even came out. David Twelis being Ares was an actual twist.
It wasn't woke. It didn't have an annoying little kid in there telling unfunny jokes. It didn't need to shoehorn in other characters from other movies for the sake of it.
Captain Marvel was one of the worst MCU movies yet.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 30, 2019 10:21:04 GMT
Most of those positives weren't really all that good. The chase sequence was generic and unexciting. A lot of the 90's reference were in your face like the Blockbuster and Radio Shack scenes. Wonder Woman is on a whole other level from Captain Marvel. The lead was actually a likable character as opposed to the arrogant and unlikable Captain Marvel who was still that way in Endgame. The cinematography was not even comparable. Captain Marvel has that same generic look as a lot of other MCU movies. The action was much better. Wonder Woman didn't have the best final action scene but it was still a lot better than Captain Marvel flying around and zapping a few ships which was again generic. The action scene in the middle of the movie was better than any scene in Captain Marvel. The musical score was vastly better. I don't even remember Captain Marvel's except for that god awful "I'm just a girl". The twists were better because it was always obvious that Jude Law was going to be the villain, he was too big of a star to just be some side character who appears now and then so that was obvious before the movie even came out. David Twelis being Ares was an actual twist. It wasn't woke. It didn't have an annoying little kid in there telling unfunny jokes. It didn't need to shoehorn in other characters from other movies for the sake of it. Captain Marvel was one of the worst MCU movies yet. So first, the primary issue of WW is that a lot of it doesn't make any sense, which is more important than debating which has better score, or cinematography, or action. None of that saves it, and even if it could be argued that some of those elements were better in WW, none of them were so much better as to be any sort of significant advantage.
Second, I disagree with almost every sentence you wrote.
CM is no more "woke" than WW, it didn't shoehorn anybody in, it didn't have an annoying kid, the cinematography of the MCU is great so it's consistent with that, and no the final battle in WW was not better than CM blasting ships. WW vs Ares is one of the worst final battles I've ever seen. Whether Twelis being Ares was a twist or not is irrelevant because it wasn't effective. It only happened because she completely failed and it just led to him standing there in CGI shouting at her and then giving her everything she used to beat him with. If you want to call Diana on another level, that's on you, but Carol is awesome across the board and I find that statement ridiculous. And calling it one of the worst MCU movies just means it's a part of the undefeated 23 film winning streak, because they're all good to great, which makes it miles better than almost anything Sony, Fox, and DC have made. Also the 90’s references were great and a lot of the quite subtle like the band posters. It felt like the 90’s which is the point..
Captain Marvel is imminently enjoyable because it's well thought out and well crafted in every scene, and is on the level of origins like First Avenger and Thor. But I'd honestly never watch WW again. It is more in line with early 2000's films like Fantastic Four 05 where it's ok but calling it anything more is just hype. It's got one solid action beat in the middle, but almost no scene makes any real sense and it has an atrocious final battle that's just ugly and nearly pointless. I'll take Captain Marvel all day in that one. WW ranks as the most overrated CBM of all time IMO.
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Post by Groovy Rachel on Sept 30, 2019 11:07:31 GMT
The movie made plenty sense, anyone can nitpick trivial details in movies so that's irrelevant. That Wonder Woman had a significantly better score, cinematography and action, far more than makes up for it because it wasn't a little better, it was a significantly better.
The score, the cinematograph, the action and the lead were all much much better than in Captain Marvel.
Yes Captain Marvel was woke, it was always going to be especially with that actress, that awful "Just a girl" song was put in there for that reason. Same with her stealing that guys bike just for asking her to smile and other things. Girl power!
Wonder Woman had none of that.
The annoying little kid in Captain Marvel who they kept trying to make cute and funny and led to cringey dialogue like her saying her mom was a bad influence.
Woman Woman didn't have one.
Captain Marvel had the same usual generic, watered down somewhat cheap looking cinematography that a whole bunch of other MCU movies have as opposed to some of the better ones like Thor Ragnarok or Guardians of the Galaxy.
Wonder Woman was actually the lower budgeted movie and yet looks the more expensive of the two.
Captain Marvel tried to copy Wonder Woman by hiding the true villain as a twiat but did it in such a terrible way it makes you wonder what the point of it even was.
I mean ok, cool Captain Marvel had posters on the wall...but that doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the movie. It wasn't an elaborate set like Wonder Woman with appropriate costumes but if a poster being on a wall is enough to make you happy then all the power to you I guess.
Yeah Captain Marvel actually is on the same level as Captain America and Thor because those movies weren't that good either lol. They were also much worse than Wonder Woman. More noticeable with those two because they share such similarities.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 30, 2019 11:15:40 GMT
How about instead of going back and forth on this, since I disagree with all of that, we talk about the box office.
What factors led to Captain Marvel winning by 307 million at the box office?
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Post by Groovy Rachel on Sept 30, 2019 11:52:06 GMT
How about instead of going back and forth on this, since I disagree with all of that, we talk about the box office. What factors led to Captain Marvel winning by 307 million at the box office? A number of things, Captain Marvel benefitted from being released so close to Avengers Endgame a movie which Captain Marvel was set to appear in also. The movie even had a boost on the weekend that the movie released. China also plays a factor as the MCU brand is quite significant there. That accounted for $65 million of the difference just from that one country. Not to mention that the overseas market is growing at a rapid pace constantly. The time of release being another. Wonder Woman released in the middle of a summer season surrounded by competition like Guardians of the Galaxy 2, Pirates of the Caribbean, Baywatch, The Mummy, Cars 3 and Transformers 5. Meanwhile Captain Marvel opened in March surrounded by nothing. It was the first real big movie of the year, it's closest competition Alita opened a month beforehand and then Shazam a month later. Like all MCU movies they use the gimmick of adding in characters from other movies to make sure people know the movie is part of the MCU brand which is why Nick Fury had such a large role. That's not what they did with Wonder Woman, it didn't need any after credits scene showing The Flash or Green Lantern. And finally movies based on the World Wars have never had a strong appeal overseas. That's why even though Captain America made about as much as Thor and Ant-man in US, overseas it made a huge amount less. That even goes back to 1998, when even though Saving Private Ryan was bigger than Armageddon, the latter made a lot more worldwide.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Sept 30, 2019 12:41:05 GMT
How about instead of going back and forth on this, since I disagree with all of that, we talk about the box office. What factors led to Captain Marvel winning by 307 million at the box office? A number of things, Captain Marvel benefitted from being released so close to Avengers Endgame a movie which Captain Marvel was set to appear in also. The movie even had a boost on the weekend that the movie released. China also plays a factor as the MCU brand is quite significant there. That accounted for $65 million of the difference just from that one country. Not to mention that the overseas market is growing at a rapid pace constantly. The time of release being another. Wonder Woman released in the middle of a summer season surrounded by competition like Guardians of the Galaxy 2, Pirates of the Caribbean, Baywatch, The Mummy, Cars 3 and Transformers 5. Meanwhile Captain Marvel opened in March surrounded by nothing. It was the first real big movie of the year, it's closest competition Alita opened a month beforehand and then Shazam a month later. Like all MCU movies they use the gimmick of adding in characters from other movies to make sure people know the movie is part of the MCU brand which is why Nick Fury had such a large role. That's not what they did with Wonder Woman, it didn't need any after credits scene showing The Flash or Green Lantern.
And finally movies based on the World Wars have never had a strong appeal overseas. That's why even though Captain America made about as much as Thor and Ant-man in US, overseas it made a huge amount less. That even goes back to 1998, when even though Saving Private Ryan was bigger than Armageddon, the latter made a lot more worldwide. I agree with everything you said except this. How many more people do you think saw Captain Marvel simply because Nick Fury was in it? I actually thought CM being a prequel was a detriment. No other superheroes with incredible powers and outsized personalities to bounce off of, just a desk jockey who serves as the comic relief and does absolutely nothing to affect the plot.
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Post by scabab on Sept 30, 2019 12:49:54 GMT
I agree with everything you said except this. How many more people do you think saw Captain Marvel simply because Nick Fury was in it? I actually thought CM being a prequel was a detriment. No other superheroes with incredible powers and outsized personalities to bounce off of, just a desk jockey who serves as the comic relief and does absolutely nothing to affect the plot. I don't think it'd be because of Nick Fury in particular but by having him in there it's a way of showing audiences that it's part of that whole franchise. They'll see Nick Fury, think "Oh that's the guy from Avengers and Iron Man" realise then that this movie is part of all those other movies and that's what gets people to go and see it. Same with them putting Falcon in Ant-man I suppose.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Sept 30, 2019 13:01:47 GMT
I agree with everything you said except this. How many more people do you think saw Captain Marvel simply because Nick Fury was in it? I actually thought CM being a prequel was a detriment. No other superheroes with incredible powers and outsized personalities to bounce off of, just a desk jockey who serves as the comic relief and does absolutely nothing to affect the plot. I don't think it'd be because of Nick Fury in particular but by having him in there it's a way of showing audiences that it's part of that whole franchise. They'll see Nick Fury, think "Oh that's the guy from Avengers and Iron Man" realise then that this movie is part of all those other movies and that's what gets people to go and see it. Same with them putting Falcon in Ant-man I suppose. You think people didn't know Captain Marvel was a Marvel film? They didn't have Marvel Studios all over the advertising? Nick Fury didn't even look like himself in that film, I highly doubt a significant number of people went to see CM simply because Fury was in the trailers. Falcon was a throwaway cameo that wasn't a part of the film's marketing. I agree his appearance serves no purpose than to be a commercial for the larger MCU within the film you're watching, but it wasn't used as a box office draw for the film itself. If anything it's the other way around, with Falcon's appearance being used as a way to pull Ant-Man viewers into other corners of the MCU. Again it was unnecessary, but that seems like the intent rather than suggesting Falcon was there to boost Ant-Man's receipts. Back to the original comment I replied to, it's funny that continuity would be referred to as a gimmick. Marvel Studios knows what they're doing so they don't have to throw out a bunch of one-offs that make no sense and constantly contradict each other, reboot every three years or feature 17 different versions of the same three popular characters because they don't know how to use the rest of their catalog. How many version of Batman and the Joker will we have running around ten years from now? 25? 30?
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 30, 2019 13:04:28 GMT
How about instead of going back and forth on this, since I disagree with all of that, we talk about the box office. What factors led to Captain Marvel winning by 307 million at the box office? A number of things, Captain Marvel benefitted from being released so close to Avengers Endgame a movie which Captain Marvel was set to appear in also. The movie even had a boost on the weekend that the movie released. China also plays a factor as the MCU brand is quite significant there. That accounted for $65 million of the difference just from that one country. Not to mention that the overseas market is growing at a rapid pace constantly. The time of release being another. Wonder Woman released in the middle of a summer season surrounded by competition like Guardians of the Galaxy 2, Pirates of the Caribbean, Baywatch, The Mummy, Cars 3 and Transformers 5. Meanwhile Captain Marvel opened in March surrounded by nothing. It was the first real big movie of the year, it's closest competition Alita opened a month beforehand and then Shazam a month later. Like all MCU movies they use the gimmick of adding in characters from other movies to make sure people know the movie is part of the MCU brand which is why Nick Fury had such a large role. That's not what they did with Wonder Woman, it didn't need any after credits scene showing The Flash or Green Lantern. And finally movies based on the World Wars have never had a strong appeal overseas. That's why even though Captain America made about as much as Thor and Ant-man in US, overseas it made a huge amount less. That even goes back to 1998, when even though Saving Private Ryan was bigger than Armageddon, the latter made a lot more worldwide. Ok so those are mostly good things that are to its credit. I’m glad it has familiar characters and WA not having much connection is a negative. Also, does that account for $400-$500 million? Don’t forget that ww had a big hype train and CM was wrongly and insanely attacked. And Ant Man didn’t get crazy boost coming after either Avengers film so that proximity thing only counts if the film is still got a significant cultural impact. You can’t just use it to wash away hundreds of millions. The fact is that CM is a very good film. If anything I’d say WW got a boost from being overhyped.
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