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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 30, 2017 21:30:09 GMT
Now you're just desperate, and besides your question is this: "Who Wins the BO", winning is all about profit, understand? Actually it's about revenue.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Apr 30, 2017 21:38:49 GMT
Now you're just desperate, and besides your question is this: "Who Wins the BO", winning is all about profit, understand? Actually it's about revenue.
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Post by merh on Apr 30, 2017 21:49:40 GMT
The DC fans are desperate for a good movie, not one they have to pretend is good or settle for grudgingly. If WW is workable, they will see it multiple times. She has an audience waiting Now this is actually a great point I didn't consider. If it's even remotely good they'll have a pressing desire to see it multiple times. Great point and probably has a lot of merit to it.
And what I meant by her audience is comic fans and DC fans in particular, for some reason build Superman and WW up as though everybody just loves them and they'll automatically outdo other characters just because it's them, and we've seen that's not true. BVS proved that beyond a doubt, and so did MOS which barely outgrossed Thor TDW, and Superman Returns definitely did. They aren't the immortal characters everybody tries to make them out to be.
The problem I see with DCEU is WB is an old school studio that thinks like an old school studio. Hire a director, get a script, film. Who cares about the characters? It's the director that matters. This is where Marvel has the power. No, director, it's not about YOU. It's about characters loved by a group of fans & staying true to those characters & their world, not your vision of your story for your glory. I like Superman. I like his world. He is old school values. He is the adult in the room while mere humans freak out like chickens with their heads cut off. As Christopher Reeve said-Superman is a friend. Modern comic writers try to make him a god, but he isn't. It doesn't matter what his powers are, his HEAD is not in that place. He is a protector like Cap & Thor. He grew up on earth so he sees himself as an earthling. We are his people. Everyone I know, Comic-Con International type fans of comics HATED Man of Steel because that was not Supes. MA & PA Kent WOULD NOT RAISE HIM THAT WAY. Be their hero or not? Hell no. I have been reading comics since the 60s. Thor. Cap. Namor. Superboy. The Legion. Mon-El. Bouncing Boy. Duo Damsel. Man of Steel was not Superman & it SUCKS because Cavell has it. The parts of BvS that worked for me was Supes. Cavell has the charm, the smile. Snyder wants us to believe Batman, the World's Greatest Detective, would fall for that crap? He wouldn't see Luthor's manipulation a mile away & work WITH Supes to catch Luthor? No. Fail big time.
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 30, 2017 22:05:29 GMT
I really don't think it does.
I honestly think people think Wonder Woman has a larger audience, but she really doesn't.
The Marvel logo gives Captain Marvel all she needs. That's how much better Marvel has become.
Nope, Wonder Woman has a large audience. She's been around for 75 years and she was not only on a live-action TV show in the 1970s but also on the Justice League animated series in the 2000s. So multiple generations of people have grown up either reading Wonder Woman comics and watching Wonder Woman on TV.
Nobody gives a shit about the Marvel logo. That's why Agent Carter got cancelled after just 18 episodes (less than a full season for normal TV shows) and that's why Agents of SHIELD always gets low ratings and is always on the bubble every year. Cause nobody gives a shit about the Marvel logo.
Agent Carter was a winter hiatus series for Agents of SHIELD. That's why it didn't have many episodes for each season. It was only there to fill up time until AoS came back. And about you thinking that Wonder Woman has a big audience. Not really true. There are lots of characters that have been around for longer and have been in the public eye for most of that time like Dracula, Robin Hood, Tarzan, etc. Their movies aren't crushing theaters and they make movies about them all the time. Having longevity doesn't mean that people are actually into the character universally. Superman has legendary status, Wonder Woman doesn't. Also, please let the Wonder Woman not be a WW1 version of First Avenger. It's looking like it will turn out that way. And if this movie does indeed do good... Please don't have Wonder Woman 2 be a copy of Winter Soldier.
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Post by DC-Fan on Apr 30, 2017 22:23:14 GMT
Agent Carter was a winter hiatus series for Agents of SHIELD. That's why it didn't have many episodes for each season. And it got cancelled after just 18 episodes. please let the Wonder Woman not be a WW1 version of First Avenger. It's looking like it will turn out that way. And if this movie does indeed do good... Please don't have Wonder Woman 2 be a copy of Winter Soldier. Wonder Woman is nothing like The First Avenger. The First Avenger was about a skinny kid who wanted to join the Army so that he could get girls, like his best friend Bucky did. But he was such a wimp that he couldn't pass the Army's physical so he volunteers to take an experimental super steroids so that he could get super muscles and be stronger. Then he pretends to be a "Captain" (which is illegal) after he's given that rank by a Senator (which Senators don't have the authority or power to give out) even though he has no experience at all commanding a unit of soldiers and thus (by using super steroids) he takes that job away from more deserving officers who had earned that job by actually leading a unit of soldiers. By contrast, Wonder Woman is about a demi-goddess who leaves the only home she's ever known to go to a foreign land and help stop what was the biggest and most gruesome war in history at that time.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Apr 30, 2017 22:32:21 GMT
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Post by merh on Apr 30, 2017 23:12:51 GMT
Agent Carter was a winter hiatus series for Agents of SHIELD. That's why it didn't have many episodes for each season. And it got cancelled after just 18 episodes. please let the Wonder Woman not be a WW1 version of First Avenger. It's looking like it will turn out that way. And if this movie does indeed do good... Please don't have Wonder Woman 2 be a copy of Winter Soldier. Wonder Woman is nothing like The First Avenger. The First Avenger was about a skinny kid who wanted to join the Army so that he could get girls, like his best friend Bucky did. But he was such a wimp that he couldn't pass the Army's physical so he volunteers to take an experimental super steroids so that he could get super muscles and be stronger. Then he pretends to be a "Captain" (which is illegal) after he's given that rank by a Senator (which Senators don't have the authority or power to give out) even though he has no experience at all commanding a unit of soldiers and thus (by using super steroids) he takes that job away from more deserving officers who had earned that job by actually leading a unit of soldiers. By contrast, Wonder Woman is about a demi-goddess who leaves the only home she's ever known to go to a foreign land and help stop what was the biggest and most gruesome war in history at that time. Not much eye for details. No. Steve wasn't looking to get girls. He didn't want to fight Nazis. He hated bullies. Remember?
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 30, 2017 23:17:24 GMT
Agent Carter was a winter hiatus series for Agents of SHIELD. That's why it didn't have many episodes for each season. And it got cancelled after just 18 episodes. please let the Wonder Woman not be a WW1 version of First Avenger. It's looking like it will turn out that way. And if this movie does indeed do good... Please don't have Wonder Woman 2 be a copy of Winter Soldier. Wonder Woman is nothing like The First Avenger. The First Avenger was about a skinny kid who wanted to join the Army so that he could get girls, like his best friend Bucky did. But he was such a wimp that he couldn't pass the Army's physical so he volunteers to take an experimental super steroids so that he could get super muscles and be stronger. Then he pretends to be a "Captain" (which is illegal) after he's given that rank by a Senator (which Senators don't have the authority or power to give out) even though he has no experience at all commanding a unit of soldiers and thus (by using super steroids) he takes that job away from more deserving officers who had earned that job by actually leading a unit of soldiers. By contrast, Wonder Woman is about a demi-goddess who leaves the only home she's ever known to go to a foreign land and help stop what was the biggest and most gruesome war in history at that time. Agent Carter was spread across 2 winter hiatuses of AoS. I like how you went ultra negative on the Captain America part and made Wonder Woman sound like a humble story of leaving the nest. The First Avenger is about a skinny kid that wants to fight in a war because he hates what the Nazi stand for (he sees it as being a bully). He goes through a program that helps him accomplish this goal with the help of a foreign female agent. He then has to go up against a war monger that wants to use science to create a weapon to destroy his enemies. Now Wonder Woman is about a woman that joins a war with the help of a foreign male agent and has to go up against a war monger that uses science to destroy his enemies. They both use a shield, wear the American colors (why is she American themed?), and the trailers show similar scenes. They even went for that blue filter... And I'm laughing at when you said he went through the program to get girls when he already had a girl, but ignored her because he was more interested in joining the military.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Apr 30, 2017 23:23:49 GMT
Patty Jenkins has never won or been nominated for an Oscar, the only thing her film "Monster" was up for was Best Actress in a Leading Role( Charlize Theron). She has been nominated for an Emmy though for her work the pilot episode to The Killing, but didn't take home the gold.
The most lucrative films Gal Gadot has been in was where she was in supporting roles like The Fast and The Furious franchise, she's never led a hit film before on her own, Keeping up with The Joneses and Criminal where she had more meatier parts didn't do too hot at the box office. In regards to Chris Pine, the last Star Trek film did not meet all financial expectations and its unsure if another film will be made anytime soon. Pine was also supposed to help spark up the Jack Ryan franchise with the Jack Ryan: Shadow Recruit but it didn't met financial or critical expectations and that franchise is getting another reboot as an Amazon Prime series starring John Krasinski and executive produced by Michael Bay and Carlton Cuse.
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zoilus
Junior Member
@zoilus
Posts: 2,831
Likes: 1,683
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Post by zoilus on Apr 30, 2017 23:25:58 GMT
The First Avenger is about a skinny kid that wants to fight in a war because he hates what the Nazi stand for (he sees it as being a bully). He goes through a program that helps him accomplish this goal with the help of a foreign female agent. He then has to go up against a war monger that wants to use science to create a weapon to destroy his enemies. Now Wonder Woman is about a woman that joins a war with the help of a foreign male agent and has to go up against a war monger that uses science to destroy his enemies. They both use a shield, wear the American colors (why is she American themed?), and the trailers show similar scenes. Agreed. Excellent post! That just PROVES that Wonder Woman is a rip-off of The First Avenger. DC-Fan has been completely owned!
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Apr 30, 2017 23:26:41 GMT
None of that means the movie will make huge bank, if we go by the recognition theory alone last year's Ghostbusters would've made much larger profit and so would've 2015's Fantastic Four, both underperformed, especially the latter.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Apr 30, 2017 23:32:45 GMT
Where in The First Avenger is it stated by Steve Rogers or any associates of his that he just wants to join the army to get girls? If that were his main goal wouldn't he had strived to be something like a playboy most of his time? He had affection for Peggy only. His desire to join the army was because he wanted to serve his country and stop bullies, i.e. The Nazi's. And he doesn't use "super steroids" he was injected with a serum that transformed his body mass and boosted his abilities, his mix was potent enough for it work its best whereas later attempts were met with failure as the MCU has illustrated. Just stop man, you are embarrassing yourself.
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Post by DC-Fan on Apr 30, 2017 23:33:15 GMT
And it got cancelled after just 18 episodes. Wonder Woman is nothing like The First Avenger. The First Avenger was about a skinny kid who wanted to join the Army so that he could get girls, like his best friend Bucky did. But he was such a wimp that he couldn't pass the Army's physical so he volunteers to take an experimental super steroids so that he could get super muscles and be stronger. Then he pretends to be a "Captain" (which is illegal) after he's given that rank by a Senator (which Senators don't have the authority or power to give out) even though he has no experience at all commanding a unit of soldiers and thus (by using super steroids) he takes that job away from more deserving officers who had earned that job by actually leading a unit of soldiers. By contrast, Wonder Woman is about a demi-goddess who leaves the only home she's ever known to go to a foreign land and help stop what was the biggest and most gruesome war in history at that time. Agent Carter was spread across 2 winter hiatuses of AoS. I like how you went ultra negative on the Captain America part and made Wonder Woman sound like a humble story of leaving the nest. The First Avenger is about a skinny kid that wants to fight in a war because he hates what the Nazi stand for (he sees it as being a bully). He goes through a program that helps him accomplish this goal with the help of a foreign female agent. He then has to go up against a war monger that wants to use science to create a weapon to destroy his enemies. Now Wonder Woman is about a woman that joins a war with the help of a foreign male agent and has to go up against a war monger that uses science to destroy his enemies. They both use a shield, wear the American colors (why is she American themed?), and the trailers show similar scenes. He goes through a program that helps him accomplish his goal by taking experimental super steroids so that his muscles would get bigger so he would have an artificial advantage over those who actually trained hard. He then goes up against a human.
Wonder Woman is a demi-goddess who leaves the only home she's ever known to go to a foreign land to help stop the biggest and most gruesome war the world had ever seen at that time and Wonder Woman has to go up against the God of War himself.
The trailers showed similar scenes? When did The First Avenger trailer show an army of soldiers invading an island of female warriors? When did The First Avenger trailer show Steve Rogers training with a sword? When did the First Avenger trailer show Captain America climbing up out of a trench on the battlefield and deflecting a barrage of enemy gunfire while single-handedly charging towards the enemy?
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Post by DC-Fan on Apr 30, 2017 23:38:27 GMT
if we go by the recognition theory alone last year's Ghostbusters would've made much larger profit and so would've 2015's Fantastic Four, both underperformed, especially the latter. 1st, neither Ghostbusters nor Fantastic Four have been around for 75 years. 2nd, neither Ghostbusters nor Fantastic Four have had a TV show and neither are as recognizable as Wonder Woman. 3rd, both Ghostbusters and 2015's Fantastic Four were re-makes of previous movies so it was been there, done that, no big deal for most people. This will be the 1st movie starring Wonder Woman (after 75 years) and the 1st female-led superhero movie in over a decade so it will be historic. People have been clamoring for a female-led superhero movie for a long time, but MCU has refused to male a female-led superhero movie. So a Wonder Woman movie is something that (A) no one has seen before and (B) many people have wanted to see for a long time. he doesn't use "super steroids" he was injected with a serum that transformed his body mass and boosted his abilities, his mix was potent enough for it work its best whereas later attempts were met with failure as the MCU has illustrated. Just stop man, you are embarrassing yourself. So he was injected with a performancing-enhancing drug or PED, as it's commonly known in sports today. You've just proved my point. He couldn't pass the physical to get into the Army like everyone else so he decided to take a shortcut and use PEDs to give himself the advantage that he needed to get into the Army.
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 30, 2017 23:49:47 GMT
Agent Carter was spread across 2 winter hiatuses of AoS. I like how you went ultra negative on the Captain America part and made Wonder Woman sound like a humble story of leaving the nest. The First Avenger is about a skinny kid that wants to fight in a war because he hates what the Nazi stand for (he sees it as being a bully). He goes through a program that helps him accomplish this goal with the help of a foreign female agent. He then has to go up against a war monger that wants to use science to create a weapon to destroy his enemies. Now Wonder Woman is about a woman that joins a war with the help of a foreign male agent and has to go up against a war monger that uses science to destroy his enemies. They both use a shield, wear the American colors (why is she American themed?), and the trailers show similar scenes. He goes through a program that helps him accomplish his goal by taking experimental super steroids so that his muscles would get bigger so he would have an artificial advantage over those who actually trained hard. He then goes up against a human.
Wonder Woman is a demi-goddess who leaves the only home she's ever known to go to a foreign land to help stop the biggest and most gruesome war the world had ever seen at that time and Wonder Woman has to go up against the God of War himself.
As for why American colors, if you MCU fans would use your brains once in a while instead of having everything spoon-fed to you like MCU movies always do, then it would be pretty clear that the answer is simply because Steve Trevor is an American pilot and he suggested that she wear American colors.
The trailers showed similar scenes? When did The First Avenger trailer show an army of soldiers invading an island of female warriors? When did The First Avenger trailer show Steve Rogers training with a sword? When did the First Avenger trailer show Captain America climbing up out of a trench on the battlefield and deflecting a barrage of enemy gunfire while single-handedly charging towards the enemy?
Red Skull went through the same program as Steve, but with the Nazi. So you are saying being created from sand by a god is not an artificial advantage? Is this the reason? Are they going with that reason? She's not American. He can't just make her an American even if he's in the military. You do know what "similar scenes" mean, right? Did I say they showed the same exact scenes? I think I did not. But I'll play your game. Steve does go through training before he goes through the super soldier program and leaves for Europe. Seems that Diana will go through training before getting her own suit and going off to the war, huh? Steve is made to not join the war, but sneaks off anyway. Isn't Diana told that she can't leave by her mommy, but sneaks off anyway?
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 30, 2017 23:51:42 GMT
if we go by the recognition theory alone last year's Ghostbusters would've made much larger profit and so would've 2015's Fantastic Four, both underperformed, especially the latter. 1st, neither Ghostbusters nor Fantastic Four have been around for 75 years. 2nd, neither Ghostbusters nor Fantastic Four have had a TV show and neither are as recognizable as Wonder Woman. 3rd, both Ghostbusters and 2015's Fantastic Four were re-makes of previous movies so it was been there, done that, no big deal for most people. This will be the 1st movie starring Wonder Woman (after 75 years) and the 1st female-led superhero movie in over a decade so it will be historic. People have been clamoring for a female-led superhero movie for a long time, but MCU has refused to male a female-led superhero movie. So a Wonder Woman movie is something that (A) no one has seen before and (B) many people have wanted to see for a long time. he doesn't use "super steroids" he was injected with a serum that transformed his body mass and boosted his abilities, his mix was potent enough for it work its best whereas later attempts were met with failure as the MCU has illustrated. Just stop man, you are embarrassing yourself. So he was injected with a performancing-enhancing drug or PED, as it's commonly known in sports today. You've just proved my point. He couldn't pass the physical to get into the Army like everyone else so he decided to take a shortcut and use PEDs to give himself the advantage that he needed to get into the Army. That's like saying that Peter Parker was bitten by a PED spider.
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Post by DC-Fan on May 1, 2017 0:10:47 GMT
created from sand by a god is not an artificial advantage? 1st, Wonder Woman isn't created from sand. She has a mother (Hippolyta) and a father (Zeus). 2nd, Wonder Woman has no control over who her parents are. Steve Rogers had control of whether he would get into the Army by training hard to pass the physical like everyone else did or getting into the Army by taking a shortcut and getting injected with an experimental PED that would give him an artificial advantage over everyone else. Rogers chose to take the shortcut. Moreover, we can see in the Wonder Woman trailer when she's training with her aunt that her aunt treats her like any other Amazon warrior so Diana has to work hard just like all the other Amazon warriors to gain the respect of her fellow warriors. Steve Rogers had it all handed to him without any work at all simply by choosing to take a shortcut and use an experimental PED that gave him an advantage over everyone else. That's like saying that Peter Parker was bitten by a PED spider. Peter Parker didn't choose to get bitten by a spider. Peter didn't wake and say "I want to be get bitten by a radioactive spider so I an climb up walls and have super-powers".
Steve Rogers wanted to get into the Army but he didn't train like everybody else so he couldn't pass the physical to get into the Army. So he chose to take a shortcut and get injected with an experimental PED so that he could get bigger muscles and have an artificial advantage over everyone else.
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Post by shadyvsesham on May 1, 2017 1:31:21 GMT
zoilus I have a question. Im not big into the Marvel/DC debate, so please excuse my foolishness and being confused here. (Youve never been a d*ck to me so I hope it doesnt start now! Again I am sorry for asking this!) Ok my question: Why would he be conflicted, does he hate Whedon? If so, you got any idea why? Hey, if anyone can answer, tyvm. Yes. He hates Marvel (but thinks DC is perfect). He hates The Avengers and Age of Ultron, both written and directed by Whedon. Ever since Whedon was announced as the director of Batgirl, dc-fan has not even acknowledged the news let alone said if he's excited or disappointed. That announcement has put him in a major pickle, and it's high-larious. If he were a robot, his head would exploded due to the paradox. OK TY, I wont lie, I watch a lot of films etc, but Im not big into the directors. Sure I know the "major players" but im more like,'ok, who's the lead, who is the supporting cast, etc.' I got no dog in this fight. I like both, DC/Marvel, and I got no biases. Dark Knight, favorite all time comic book movie GOTG > Superman Vs Batman:DOJ. I thought GOTGalaxy was an unexpected fun film. You have THREE of the marvels big 3, Superman/Batman and a cameo (Supporting role, we) with Wonder Woman. Not only that you had the iconic Doomsday and Lex Luthor. WTF was that Matha BS, I saw people complain about the "dance off" in GOTG, it was funny, it made me laugh. "WHYD YOU SAY THAT NAME...WHYD YOU SAY THAT NAME." "His mothers name is Martha!" *BEST FRIENDS FOR LIFE!" WTF was that? Both have had stinkers, Fant4stic 4 was trash, but Clooney and Batman...wow. Even Val Kilmer batman was sub par. Suicide Squad....Jared Leto as the Joker? Health probably rolled in his grave seeing that trash performance, I am sorry, it was garbage. HAILEY's performance....gold, only shinning moment in that film. Will Smith was....well....Will Smith. Im more excited to see what they do with Aquaman > Wonder Woman tbqh. I am probably in a huge minority. Truth is I dont think the Wonder Woman film will be that good, idk jack on Capt Marvel either. So Ill go into both with an open mind. Ill say what I think was better, no doubt. Like I said I personally preferred GOTGalaxy over DOJ, and that shouldnt imho happen when you got DC's big 3. I probably prefer Marvel SLIGHTLY (I mean baby slight) but not enough to care. I think they make better movies in a whole BUT, when DC hits....man they fn hit. Dark Knight trilogy was fn amazing, imho, Marvel has never done anything that good, BUT, Marvel imho is putting out B+, while Dark Knight was A+, I think DC is making B/C+ type films. (-DK trilogy, besides that, what else? I guess the 2 Michael Keaton Batmans, ok, those were solid. Has their ever truly been a FANTASTIC TYPE Superman film? I dont think so. I feel Spider Man 2 is better than any Superman film, but again, that DK trilogy...) Again I love both. My 2 favorites? Spiderman/Superman, cant get much more impartial!
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on May 1, 2017 1:39:23 GMT
They're still instantly recognizable brands that most everybody is familiar with regardless of age. That Wonder Woman has been around longer means nothing. John Carter has been around longer than all three but its 2012 film was a colossal flop. Both Peter Pan and Dracula have been around even longer and have had just as much if not more impact on pop culture but 2014's Dracula Untold and 2015's Pan were both serious underperformers. What makes a movie a hit has nothing to do with brand recognition itself, it has to do with how well the product has been sold to the general public and if its generating any positive word of the mouth.
Boy, where have you been? Ghostbusters had not one but two successful animated shows, and the Fantastic Four have made even more TV appearances than Wonder Woman has had. Seriously, this is the internet, and you have a brain, use both if you are capable.
Your argument was brand recognition, going by that theory both 2016's Ghostbusters and 2015's Fantastic Four should've done better at the box office because of them being recognizable franchises. A Wonder Woman film has been in demand for a long time, that much is true, but that the DCEU has not been so well received so far and that WB hasn't kicked in its marketing to high gear already is raising a few eyebrows. If the DCEU had been more well received the movie would be getting much more positive buzz.
Your attention to detail really, really sucks my friend. The super soldier serum would've been applied to ANY soldier who proved to be the best possible candidate to the program, no matter how much more physically superior than what Steve was before the injection. Steve didn't take it because he wanted to and demanded it, he was given it because it was part of the program's procedure - the government wanted him to be turned into the ultimate American hero to combat the enemy. And Steve doesn't inject himself with the serum on a regular basis like a sports player might with steroids, he was only injected once.
And I'm still waiting to hear what film Patty Jenkins won an Oscar for, because IMDb says she's never won one before, or been in contention either.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on May 1, 2017 1:47:58 GMT
He didn't take a "short cut" you dummy, being injected with the super soldier serum WASN'T his idea, it was the U.S. government's. THEY intended to use the serum on whomever became their top candidate for the program that would vastly upgrade their strength, speed, and immunity.
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