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Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 27, 2020 2:33:20 GMT
The ungodly have two possible responses: 1) It isn't going to happen. 2) It's going to happen but it isn't a bad thing. While I don't agree with you I would love to admit that I am a person who loves to pay through cash when buying stuff from retail shops. Once upon a time it was thought that negative interest rate is not possible but lately rates have been negative in Japan and Europe for a considerable period. So why will anyone pay interest to keep money in bank rather than get interest or keep the money at home? The answer is that daily exchange of money in modern world is too large. There are advantages to holding money in bank as you can in a very little time transfer money held in your account for any investment that needs to be made in little time. Those implicit advantages outweigh the disadvantage of explicit cost of paying interest (negative interest) for having the bank hold your money. Also, we have a concept of cash drag in finance. The development in financial world coupled with advancement in technology means that cash is losing value. In case of an EMP or some other power grid failure, don't you think it would be a good idea to have cash standing by as a temporary replacement?
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Post by Aj_June on Sept 27, 2020 2:38:35 GMT
While I don't agree with you I would love to admit that I am a person who loves to pay through cash when buying stuff from retail shops. Once upon a time it was thought that negative interest rate is not possible but lately rates have been negative in Japan and Europe for a considerable period. So why will anyone pay interest to keep money in bank rather than get interest or keep the money at home? The answer is that daily exchange of money in modern world is too large. There are advantages to holding money in bank as you can in a very little time transfer money held in your account for any investment that needs to be made in little time. Those implicit advantages outweigh the disadvantage of explicit cost of paying interest (negative interest) for having the bank hold your money. Also, we have a concept of cash drag in finance. The development in financial world coupled with advancement in technology means that cash is losing value. In case of an EMP or some other power grid failure, don't you think it would be a good idea to have cash standing by as a temporary replacement? As of now I do believe we need cash in circulation for reasons you mention and for also some other reasons. Although I feel its relevance has decreased and with more advancement in technology it might decrease further. That said in Australia I had seen some eateries/restaurants (especially those owned by Chinese folks although not limited to them) only took cash or had a minimum 10$ for paying through card. I think some of these do so to evade taxes. So there may be certain advantages to government to decrease the use of cash.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 27, 2020 2:44:16 GMT
In case of an EMP or some other power grid failure, don't you think it would be a good idea to have cash standing by as a temporary replacement? As of now I do believe we need cash in circulation for reasons you mention and for also some other reasons. Although I feel its relevance has decreased and with more advancement in technology it might decrease further. That said in Australia I had seen some eateries/restaurants (especially those owned by Chinese folks although not limited to them) only took cash or had a minimum 10$ for paying through card. I think some of these do so to evade taxes. So there may be certain advantages to government to decrease the use of cash. I can't disagree with you on the decline of cash. Earlier in the thread progressive-element said where he lives in Wales some places aren't accepting it anymore. I watched a somewhat lengthy video on the pros and cons of a cashless society. It said India tried to eliminate the two largest bills from circulation, but it backfired terribly. Were you living in India when this happened? Where I am, it's been a long time since I used anything larger than a $20 bill.
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Post by Aj_June on Sept 27, 2020 2:48:26 GMT
As of now I do believe we need cash in circulation for reasons you mention and for also some other reasons. Although I feel its relevance has decreased and with more advancement in technology it might decrease further. That said in Australia I had seen some eateries/restaurants (especially those owned by Chinese folks although not limited to them) only took cash or had a minimum 10$ for paying through card. I think some of these do so to evade taxes. So there may be certain advantages to government to decrease the use of cash. I can't disagree with you on the decline of cash. Earlier in the thread progressive-element said where he lives in Wales some places aren't accepting it anymore. I watched a somewhat lengthy video on the pros and cons of a cashless society. It said India tried to eliminate the two largest bills from circulation, but it backfired terribly. Were you living in India when this happened? Where I am, it's been a long time since I used anything longer than a $20 bill. It didn't actually backfire and India's attempt was not to make India a cashless society but take out bills in circulation which were manly held by black marketeers. India took away old 500 RS and 1000 RS notes as a means to get back money from people who were holding them illegally. Yes, many people had to face problem because time period they gave to get new denomination for old was quite small. As I said I am not in favour of a cashless society. At least as of now there are advantages to holding cash.
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Post by goz on Sept 27, 2020 3:02:54 GMT
In case of an EMP or some other power grid failure, don't you think it would be a good idea to have cash standing by as a temporary replacement? As of now I do believe we need cash in circulation for reasons you mention and for also some other reasons. Although I feel its relevance has decreased and with more advancement in technology it might decrease further. That said in Australia I had seen some eateries/restaurants (especially those owned by Chinese folks although not limited to them) only took cash or had a minimum 10$ for paying through card. I think some of these do so to evade taxes. So there may be certain advantages to government to decrease the use of cash. Australia still has what we refer to as ' a cash economy' which is used exclusively by people wishing to evade taxes such as tradespeople cleaners restaurants etc. by minimising their declared 'takings' for the purposes of GST, money laundering from crime ( hookers and drugs) and also income tax.
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Post by Aj_June on Sept 27, 2020 3:08:05 GMT
As of now I do believe we need cash in circulation for reasons you mention and for also some other reasons. Although I feel its relevance has decreased and with more advancement in technology it might decrease further. That said in Australia I had seen some eateries/restaurants (especially those owned by Chinese folks although not limited to them) only took cash or had a minimum 10$ for paying through card. I think some of these do so to evade taxes. So there may be certain advantages to government to decrease the use of cash. Australia still has what we refer to as ' a cash economy' which is used exclusively by people wishing to evade taxes such as tradespeople cleaners restaurants etc. by minimising their declared 'takings' for the purposes of GST, money laundering from crime ( hookers and drugs) and also income tax. Yes, that is one of the reasons why governments want to minimise the use of cash. Electronic transactions are more transparent and increase the legal taxes for government by not letting tax evaders get away with paperless transactions.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 27, 2020 4:06:14 GMT
I would put it like I put it to FilmFlaneur on the first page of the thread. The key word is pay not cash. The modern free market is based on consumerism. You can't have a consumer society without the ability to pay for things. It does not matter what you call the exchange mechanism to facilitate paying for something: paper money, personal check, coupon, credit card, debt card, bitcoin, Pay Pals, etc. All of these entities represent cash on hand somewhere. Therefore, we are no where near a cashless society. How do you know it represents cash on hand somewhere? The cash that a large part of it is supposed to represent could have been destroyed a long time ago. Hey, when it comes to paying with plastic, I'm one of the worst offenders out there, but I still think cash should remain an option for those who want it.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 27, 2020 4:18:26 GMT
How do you know it represents cash on hand somewhere? The cash that a large part of it is supposed to represent could have been destroyed a long time ago. Hey, when it comes to paying with plastic, I'm one of the worst offenders out there, but I still think cash should remain an option for those who want it. How do you know it represents cash on hand somewhere?When you buy at set of tires does it matter to the tire store whether you pay them in cash, debit card, or Apple Pay? No, but that doesn't answer the question I asked.
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Post by maya55555 on Sept 27, 2020 4:21:16 GMT
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 27, 2020 4:48:23 GMT
No, but that doesn't answer the question I asked. Sigh You asked: How do you know it represents cash on hand somewhere? I asked: When you buy at set of tires does it matter to the tire store whether you pay them in cash, debit card, or Apple Pay? You replied: No. That's how you know it represents cash on hand, namely your bank account. So, no cashless society so far. And a cashless society would mean we also have a payless society. That will not work in Capitalism. Then it follows that every single dollar of the billions of dollars that exist all have a paper equivalent? Where? Is it locked up in a vault?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 27, 2020 4:56:06 GMT
Then it follows that every single dollar of the billions of dollars that exist all have a paper equivalent? Where? Is it locked up in a vault? Yes. It's called the Federal Reserve Bank. Have you ever been there and seen all those billions? I have not, but I would like to. Wouldn't that be something? Piles and piles of paper money that never get used. They just sit there taking up space. Imagine all the trees that had to be cut down for that.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 27, 2020 5:37:59 GMT
Have you ever been there and seen all those billions? I have not, but I would like to. Wouldn't that be something? Piles and piles of paper money that never get used. They just sit there taking up space. Imagine all the trees that had to be cut down for that. Yes. I've seen all those trillions. Personally, I don't see any point in printing trillions in cash with individual serial numbers when you know beforehand that only a small amount of it is ever going to be circulated. Wouldn't it be better to just keep the serial numbers on record and print more notes as necessary?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 29, 2020 10:01:46 GMT
I would put it like I put it to FilmFlaneur on the first page of the thread. Do you buy things online for convenience erj? I have. Your point?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 29, 2020 10:56:00 GMT
It is the worldwide department store. If going cashless is such a "godless" thing, (something which I am still yet to get a cohesive and reasonable response from you about), then why engage in something that goes against your beliefs or fuels your paranoia? I don't suffer from paranoia.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 29, 2020 16:04:21 GMT
I don't suffer from paranoia. I'd say that was underlying gist behind this whole thread erj. Paranoia of those that are "godless" in a cashless society. Why do you engage in something that is "godless"? I don't care what you'd say was the underlying gist. I never used the word "godless." I don't answer beat-your-wife questions.
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Post by goz on Sept 29, 2020 23:02:23 GMT
I'd say that was underlying gist behind this whole thread erj. Paranoia of those that are "godless" in a cashless society. Why do you engage in something that is "godless"? I don't care what you'd say was the underlying gist. I never used the word "godless." I don't answer beat-your-wife questions. With due respect to toasty, I will rephrase a question to you about using credit cards, online banking and online purchases. Why do this when you fear a 'cashless' society when you are doing exactly what the mythical scary conspiracy theory 'they' are wanting you to do? Hypocritical much?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 29, 2020 23:16:05 GMT
I don't care what you'd say was the underlying gist. I never used the word "godless." I don't answer beat-your-wife questions. With due respect to toasty, I will rephrase a question to you about using credit cards, online banking and online purchases. Why do this when you fear a 'cashless' society when you are doing exactly what the mythical scary conspiracy theory 'they' are wanting you to do? Hypocritical much? They exist as VOLUNTARY alternatives to cash payment. DUH! The last time this came up I posted a video to explain it, but you don't watch YouTube "crapola," remember?
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Post by goz on Sept 29, 2020 23:22:07 GMT
With due respect to toasty, I will rephrase a question to you about using credit cards, online banking and online purchases. Why do this when you fear a 'cashless' society when you are doing exactly what the mythical scary conspiracy theory 'they' are wanting you to do? Hypocritical much? They exist as VOLUNTARY alternatives to cash payment. DUH! The last time this came up I posted a video to explain it, but you don't watch YouTube "crapola," remember? Who has the power to make it 'compulsory'?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 29, 2020 23:42:21 GMT
They exist as VOLUNTARY alternatives to cash payment. DUH! The last time this came up I posted a video to explain it, but you don't watch YouTube "crapola," remember? Who has the power to make it 'compulsory'? I told you earlier in the thread.
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Post by goz on Sept 30, 2020 2:46:38 GMT
Who has the power to make it 'compulsory'? I told you earlier in the thread. Just how are the The banking industry and our own governments going to force us to do get microchipped and divested of our money?
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