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Post by Cody™ on Dec 16, 2021 14:12:58 GMT
No the question has two answers, omnipotence means being able to do absolutely anything regardless of rules, or omnipotence is limited by logic. The question is asking how would or could omnipotence work with a divine being, and you have simply decided that omnipotence works in a particular way without actually looking at the argument. "God can do anything" isn't an answer, it's the premise: If God can do anything, can he make a rock so heavy he can't lift it? No. because that makes no sense. It’s a logical impossibility. God can do anything that is possible. Biblical omnipotence means to have unlimited power. Not to make the impossible possible. Asking if God can make a rock he cannot lift is like asking can God make a squared circle.
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Post by gadreel on Dec 16, 2021 19:35:43 GMT
"God can do anything" isn't an answer, it's the premise: If God can do anything, can he make a rock so heavy he can't lift it? No. because that makes no sense. It’s a logical impossibility. God can do anything that is possible. Biblical omnipotence means to have unlimited power. Not to make the impossible possible. Asking if God can make a rock he cannot lift is like asking can God make a squared circle. To be fair there are two answers to this question, and they both get put forward, but with the other limitations/qualities of god the answer that admin is giving makes zero sense
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Post by Admin on Dec 16, 2021 19:44:01 GMT
No. because that makes no sense. It’s a logical impossibility. God can do anything that is possible. Biblical omnipotence means to have unlimited power. Not to make the impossible possible. Asking if God can make a rock he cannot lift is like asking can God make a squared circle. To be fair there are two answers to this question, and they both get put forward, but with the other limitations/qualities of god the answer that admin is giving makes zero sense The answer admin is giving to the question as stated is correct. ps. For those who don't know, the two so-called "answers" are: 1) No, therefore God is incompetent, and 2) Yes, therefore God is incompetent.
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Post by gadreel on Dec 16, 2021 21:52:25 GMT
To be fair there are two answers to this question, and they both get put forward, but with the other limitations/qualities of god the answer that admin is giving makes zero sense The answer admin is giving to the question as stated is correct. ps. For those who don't know, the two so-called "answers" are: 1) No, therefore God is incompetent, and 2) Yes, therefore God is incompetent. Have you thought about the implications of God being able to break rules it has put in place? Gosh it must be lucky to be in a position to arbitrarily declare yourself right.
EDIT
Oh and those are not the answers
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Post by Admin on Dec 16, 2021 22:08:56 GMT
The answer admin is giving to the question as stated is correct. ps. For those who don't know, the two so-called "answers" are: 1) No, therefore God is incompetent, and 2) Yes, therefore God is incompetent. Have you thought about the implications of God being able to break rules it has put in place? Yes I have, and I am again right now thanks to this post. But right now we're talking about whether or not something that can do absolutely anything can actually do absolutely anything. Choose one: A) If God can do anything, then God can do anything. B) If God can do anything, then God can't do anything. My money is on A. How about you? Mmm. Snark. Can't get enough! Let's try this again... So can God™ create a rock he cannot lift? I don't see why not. Do you? (Not rhetorical.)
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Post by Admin on Dec 17, 2021 5:47:23 GMT
Yes I have, and I am again right now thanks to this post. But right now we're talking about whether or not something that can do absolutely anything can actually do absolutely anything. Choose one: A) If God can do anything, then God can do anything. B) If God can do anything, then God can't do anything. My money is on A. How about you? Mmm. Snark. Can't get enough! Let's try this again... I don't see why not. Do you? (Not rhetorical.) Or there is another definition for "anything" that we don't know about. God gave us brains, but we had to figure how to invent words and their meanings. We invent the words to describe what we mean. Call it what you will.
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Post by Admin on Dec 17, 2021 6:47:13 GMT
We invent the words to describe what we mean. Call it what you will. Our ways are not God's. Neither is that rock question.
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Post by Admin on Dec 17, 2021 9:21:03 GMT
Neither is that rock question. Almost like asking does gravity affect God. More like asking if God can create rock he can't lift under the unquantified condition that he can do anything, but I would suspect that the rule maker wouldn't be bound by rules he makes given that his existence would precede them. (Did I miss another trigger? haha.)
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Post by Isapop on Dec 17, 2021 15:34:46 GMT
If God can do anything, can he cease to exist? Why not, if he so chooses? (For the record though, I'm an atheist who has never thought that the "rock" question was an effective or persuasive "gotcha".)
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Post by Cody™ on Dec 19, 2021 15:56:20 GMT
If God can do anything, can he cease to exist? No, the God of the bible(the only true God that exists) cannot do anything. And no He cannot cease to exist as that would contradict his nature.
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Post by gadreel on Dec 19, 2021 23:14:14 GMT
Have you thought about the implications of God being able to break rules it has put in place? Yes I have, and I am again right now thanks to this post. But right now we're talking about whether or not something that can do absolutely anything can actually do absolutely anything. Choose one: A) If God can do anything, then God can do anything. B) If God can do anything, then God can't do anything. My money is on A. How about you? Mmm. Snark. Can't get enough! Let's try this again... So can God™ create a rock he cannot lift? I don't see why not. Do you? (Not rhetorical.) Yes I do see why not, as I have implied over and over again there are more than one definition of omnipotence, and your definition when applied to god undermines his perfection, so your definition cannot logically apply to god
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Post by gadreel on Dec 19, 2021 23:20:07 GMT
If God can do anything, can he cease to exist? Its quite possible God will cease to exist at some point, not while there is still creation though (at least our creation) so as far aas we are concerned God cannot cease to exist
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Post by Admin on Dec 19, 2021 23:40:53 GMT
Yes I do see why not, as I have implied over and over again there are more than one definition of omnipotence, and your definition when applied to god undermines his perfection, so your definition cannot logically apply to god That question doesn't mention omnipotence.
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Post by gadreel on Dec 20, 2021 17:53:56 GMT
Yes I do see why not, as I have implied over and over again there are more than one definition of omnipotence, and your definition when applied to god undermines his perfection, so your definition cannot logically apply to god That question doesn't mention omnipotence. bwhahahahahahahahaha.
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Post by Admin on Dec 20, 2021 19:49:22 GMT
That question doesn't mention omnipotence. bwhahahahahahahahaha. What’s funny? That’s the question you demanded I answer. How about this one: If God can do anything, can he create a rock he cannot lift?Does that one mention omnipotence?
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Post by gadreel on Dec 21, 2021 21:29:52 GMT
What’s funny? That’s the question you demanded I answer. How about this one: If God can do anything, can he create a rock he cannot lift?Does that one mention omnipotence? It's like you are not even trying.
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Post by Admin on Dec 21, 2021 23:26:23 GMT
What’s funny? That’s the question you demanded I answer. How about this one: If God can do anything, can he create a rock he cannot lift?Does that one mention omnipotence? It's like you are not even trying. Evasion noted. Happy Holidays, Gadreel.
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Post by gadreel on Dec 21, 2021 23:34:09 GMT
It's like you are not even trying. Evasion noted. Happy Holidays, Gadreel. what is it you think I am evading? You do realise the whole argument of the rock is literally about omnipotence right?
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Post by Admin on Dec 22, 2021 2:02:15 GMT
Evasion noted. Happy Holidays, Gadreel. what is it you think I am evading? If God can do anything, can he create a rock he cannot lift? Does that question mention omnipotence? Then why are you asking about God and why do you put a trademark symbol on it? The question you demanded I answer was whether or not "God™" (whatever that is) can make a rock he can't lift. It does not mention omnipotence, but I'd happy to presume it if I knew what you mean when you ask it. Let's put a different string on this yo-yo... When you say "God™" cannot make a rock he can't lift, are you saying "God™" is or is not omnipotent? I only ask because it seems that you're saying what I've been saying this whole time, but it also seems like you're arguing with me. Please clarify, thanks.
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Post by gadreel on Dec 22, 2021 19:46:35 GMT
what is it you think I am evading? If God can do anything, can he create a rock he cannot lift? Does that question mention omnipotence? Then why are you asking about God and why do you put a trademark symbol on it? The question you demanded I answer was whether or not "God™" (whatever that is) can make a rock he can't lift. It does not mention omnipotence, but I'd happy to presume it if I knew what you mean when you ask it. Let's put a different string on this yo-yo... When you say "God™" cannot make a rock he can't lift, are you saying "God™" is or is not omnipotent? I only ask because it seems that you're saying what I've been saying this whole time, but it also seems like you're arguing with me. Please clarify, thanks. The argument is not about god™, it is about the definition of omnipotence, think about the implications of a perfect creator god™ that was able to break the rules it had set for it's creation.
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