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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Sept 12, 2021 22:53:56 GMT
I was talking about this movie last night and realized what it reminded me of: Aquaman. Both movies have solid, if not predictable, first halves then around the midpoint they become these wild goose chases where all sorts of supernatural plot points just come out of nowhere, then they devolve into big CGI spectacles for the third act. I can see that honestly. Just don't say that to...well you know.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2021 23:33:10 GMT
I was talking about this movie last night and realized what it reminded me of: Aquaman. Both movies have solid, if not predictable, first halves then around the midpoint they become these wild goose chases where all sorts of supernatural plot points just come out of nowhere, then they devolve into big CGI spectacles for the third act. I can see that honestly. Just don't say that to...well you know. I’m tempted to!
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Downey
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Post by Downey on Sept 13, 2021 0:31:30 GMT
It was developed when Hawkeye was brainwashed by Loki in the first Avengers movie with Black Widow knowing that was there was goodness in him that could bring him back from being possessed. It's always been there but it seems maybe you choose to ignore it for the spectacle. Which, again, boiled down to them saying Nat and Clint were friends but not quite showing it. Guess that's enough "development" for some people. No, they showed it by showing Black Widow being visibly upset at Hawkeye being brainwashed and going rogue thus him commiting atrocities with Loki.
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Post by leesilm on Sept 13, 2021 2:31:27 GMT
Personally, I kind of love the idea of a leading man in the MCU, having a female BFF who is not a potential love-interest for him or even an ex he's maintained a friendship with post-breakup. This is definitely coloured by the fact that I'm a girl who has historically had mostly-male friends, and I know how that can wig people out that a guy and girl can be friends without it having to have anything to do with romance/sex. The MCU has enjoyed toying with the idea of putting characters together, even when they are seemingly only-friends (like having the awkward bit with Natasha kissing Steve as a distraction) when they have a deep and/or old friendship, so it is nice having that NOT-happen here.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 13, 2021 2:41:27 GMT
Which, again, boiled down to them saying Nat and Clint were friends but not quite showing it. Guess that's enough "development" for some people. No, they showed it by showing Black Widow being visibly upset at Hawkeye being brainwashed and going rogue thus him commiting atrocities with Loki. Ok dude, whatever. If that's all it takes for you to declare it a properly developed friendship between characters then you go do you. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I guess you're also the type of guy who'll say that Hawkeye's relationship with his wife was well developed because he became a vigilante after they were snapped. Me, I prefer development to be more than simple exposition.
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Downey
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Post by Downey on Sept 13, 2021 5:48:02 GMT
No, they showed it by showing Black Widow being visibly upset at Hawkeye being brainwashed and going rogue thus him commiting atrocities with Loki. Ok dude, whatever. If that's all it takes for you to declare it a properly developed friendship between characters then you go do you. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I guess you're also the type of guy who'll say that Hawkeye's relationship with his wife was well developed because he became a vigilante after they were snapped. Me, I prefer development to be more than simple exposition. Hawkeye's wife appeared in Age of Ultron so you've already been shown his wife and child and how much they mean to him and the understanding they have of his job and the risks involved. Do you actually watch these movies? Because it's like you have memory problems, or holes in your memory and you can't remember important scenes that already answer your questions. You're using the development excuse but all your replies are the replies of someone out of their depth who forgets important scenes. You're very odd. They're also two or three hour movies if you want more info then that's where spinoffs come into play, but it just seems to me that you need to be constantly spoonfed what you're watching.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 13, 2021 7:22:18 GMT
Ok dude, whatever. If that's all it takes for you to declare it a properly developed friendship between characters then you go do you. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I guess you're also the type of guy who'll say that Hawkeye's relationship with his wife was well developed because he became a vigilante after they were snapped. Me, I prefer development to be more than simple exposition. Hawkeye's wife appeared in Age of Ultron so you've already been shown his wife and child and how much they mean to him and the understanding they have of his job and the risks involved. Do you actually watch these movies? Because it's like you have memory problems, or holes in your memory and you can't remember important scenes that already answer your questions. You're using the development excuse but all your replies are the replies of someone out of their depth who forgets important scenes. You're very odd. They're also two or three hour movies if you want more info then that's where spinoffs come into play, but it just seems to me that you need to be constantly spoonfed what you're watching. Ah yes, because all you need to do is to show that Hawkeye has a wife and kids in a few scenes and that's apparently already considered proper development of his relationship with his family. If a few scenes here and there and some exposition here and there is enough to be considered "proper development" in your book then so be it. Me, I'm not that shallow. So like I said, we'll just have to agree to disagree. In any case, I have no patience or desire to continue to swap playground insults with you. I've already blocked you once because you seemed too intent on picking fights rather than actually discussing movies, and it seems it was a mistake on my end to unblock you.
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Downey
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Post by Downey on Sept 13, 2021 8:33:30 GMT
Hawkeye's wife appeared in Age of Ultron so you've already been shown his wife and child and how much they mean to him and the understanding they have of his job and the risks involved. Do you actually watch these movies? Because it's like you have memory problems, or holes in your memory and you can't remember important scenes that already answer your questions. You're using the development excuse but all your replies are the replies of someone out of their depth who forgets important scenes. You're very odd. They're also two or three hour movies if you want more info then that's where spinoffs come into play, but it just seems to me that you need to be constantly spoonfed what you're watching. Ah yes, because all you need to do is to show that Hawkeye has a wife and kids in a few scenes and that's apparently already considered proper development of his relationship with his family. If a few scenes here and there and some exposition here and there is enough to be considered "proper development" in your book then so be it. Me, I'm not that shallow. So like I said, we'll just have to agree to disagree. In any case, I have no patience or desire to continue to swap playground insults with you. I've already blocked you once because you seemed too intent on picking fights rather than actually discussing movies, and it seems it was a mistake on my end to unblock you. It's a two to three hour movie not a fucking documentary. I don't care what you do on here. If you can't grasp basic hints as to the level of relationships between characters even after they've been explicitly shown in front of you on a big screen then please put me on ignore. I like talking to people that can grasp simple concepts without needing a literal spade shoved into their mouths. If you're looking for someone to make you feel good for being obtuse then you've come to the wrong person.
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Post by Vassaggo on Sept 13, 2021 18:27:48 GMT
Hawkeye's wife appeared in Age of Ultron so you've already been shown his wife and child and how much they mean to him and the understanding they have of his job and the risks involved. Do you actually watch these movies? Because it's like you have memory problems, or holes in your memory and you can't remember important scenes that already answer your questions. You're using the development excuse but all your replies are the replies of someone out of their depth who forgets important scenes. You're very odd. They're also two or three hour movies if you want more info then that's where spinoffs come into play, but it just seems to me that you need to be constantly spoonfed what you're watching. Ah yes, because all you need to do is to show that Hawkeye has a wife and kids in a few scenes and that's apparently already considered proper development of his relationship with his family. If a few scenes here and there and some exposition here and there is enough to be considered "proper development" in your book then so be it. Me, I'm not that shallow. So like I said, we'll just have to agree to disagree. In any case, I have no patience or desire to continue to swap playground insults with you. I've already blocked you once because you seemed too intent on picking fights rather than actually discussing movies, and it seems it was a mistake on my end to unblock you. Considering Hawkeye and Nat are characters in Ensemble movies mainly they don't have a lot of time to develop. What time they do have they used it pretty well. In Avengers you get some development between them. Her decompressing him after he was turned back. Telling him its not his fault. That she knew how it feels because he helped her out of it. Age of Ultron you get development of Clints Family. Quite a bit actually more than expected. And you get some development between Clint and Nat. They talk like friends. Hell they even were discussing plans on the house as they were driving through the war zone. Then in End Game you get her tracking him down, how tore up he was because his family was gone, her crying (something Nat doesn't normally do) for him, her giving him hope, etc... The final sacrifice wasn't a hero sacrificing herself for an innocent. As any hero would do. Her sacrifice was her doing it for a family member. It was personal.
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Post by Vassaggo on Sept 13, 2021 18:34:30 GMT
Oh on the subject. I had no knowledge, context, or interest in seeing Shang Chi. The action was spot on. It's weird I like Asian fighting styles, but not Asian weapons perse. The fighting styles here were awesome for close combat and wide army scenes.
I figured Trevor was going to have a cameo was surprised that it was a bit more than that. I wasn't expecting a Kaiju fight at the end. I always welcome a Kaiju fight.
I'll give it a surprising 7.5/10
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Post by Power Ranger on Sept 13, 2021 19:17:14 GMT
Oh on the subject. I had no knowledge, context, or interest in seeing Shang Chi. The action was spot on. It's weird I like Asian fighting styles, but not Asian weapons perse. The fighting styles here were awesome for close combat and wide army scenes. I figured Trevor was going to have a cameo was surprised that it was a bit more than that. I wasn't expecting a Kaiju fight at the end. I always welcome a Kaiju fight. I'll give it a surprising 7.5/10 Really? I like Asian weapons. But I was a kid during the 80s ninja craze. Exotic weapons are cool. I doubt TMNT would have been successful if it was all chop socky.
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Post by Vassaggo on Sept 13, 2021 19:48:29 GMT
Oh on the subject. I had no knowledge, context, or interest in seeing Shang Chi. The action was spot on. It's weird I like Asian fighting styles, but not Asian weapons perse. The fighting styles here were awesome for close combat and wide army scenes. I figured Trevor was going to have a cameo was surprised that it was a bit more than that. I wasn't expecting a Kaiju fight at the end. I always welcome a Kaiju fight. I'll give it a surprising 7.5/10 Really? I like Asian weapons. But I was a kid during the 80s ninja craze. Exotic weapons are cool. I doubt TMNT would have been successful if it was all chop socky. I have a history degree, with a concentration in Western Civilization, and a focus on Medieval Time Period. Guess what style of weapons I like . I grew up in the same time period as you but D&D had more of an affect on my style of weapons than TMNT. btw this is how I decorated my living room and part of my library. Waiting on a German Flameberg to go behind the shield and gauntlets.
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Post by Power Ranger on Sept 13, 2021 20:26:08 GMT
Vassaggo I think that western martial arts weapons are more effective, but I think that eastern martial arts weapons can be more cinematic.
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Post by Vassaggo on Sept 13, 2021 20:31:28 GMT
Vassaggo I think that western martial arts weapons are more effective, but I think that eastern martial arts weapons can be more cinematic. You can't really pit European Weapons vs Asian ones. Just by shear design (single edged) vs double edged Asian weapons would be superior. Not to mention the quality of the steel. European weapons were made just to be good enough to be battle ready. Asian weapons were made for traditions sake, and more pride was taken into account. (barring a crunch for a civil war here and there when they needed to pump out lots of weapons) The design is what I like. Asian weapons are more craft than arts. I think the opposite of European. They just look cooler to my eye.
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Post by Power Ranger on Sept 13, 2021 20:40:32 GMT
Vassaggo I think that western martial arts weapons are more effective, but I think that eastern martial arts weapons can be more cinematic. You can't really pit European Weapons vs Asian ones. Just by shear design (single edged) vs double edged Asian weapons would be superior. Not to mention the quality of the steel. European weapons were made just to be good enough to be battle ready. Asian weapons were made for traditions sake, and more pride was taken into account. (barring a crunch for a civil war here and there when they needed to pump out lots of weapons) The design is what I like. Asian weapons are more craft than arts. I think the opposite of European. They just look cooler to my eye. I studied history units and one lecturer who was a bit of a boffin on the subject said that ultimately, as far as swords go, stabbing swords would have been more effective than weapons designed primarily for slashing. He said that a highly trained Spanish swordsman would likely have defeated Japanese samurais. The Spanish were the top dogs at sword innovation (the progress of which halted when firearms came into use).
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Post by Vassaggo on Sept 13, 2021 20:53:29 GMT
You can't really pit European Weapons vs Asian ones. Just by shear design (single edged) vs double edged Asian weapons would be superior. Not to mention the quality of the steel. European weapons were made just to be good enough to be battle ready. Asian weapons were made for traditions sake, and more pride was taken into account. (barring a crunch for a civil war here and there when they needed to pump out lots of weapons) The design is what I like. Asian weapons are more craft than arts. I think the opposite of European. They just look cooler to my eye. I studied history units and one lecturer who was a bit of a boffin on the subject said that ultimately, as far as swords go, stabbing swords would have been more effective than weapons designed primarily for slashing. He said that a highly trained Spanish swordsman would likely have defeated Japanese samurais. The Spanish were the top dogs at sword innovation (the progress of which halted when firearms came into use). The debate would be iffy. Yes Samurais armor was more effective vs slashing weapons. (as their primary weapon they were were going against was slashing) the armor was suprisingly resilient to penetrative stabs. This maybe due to the fact that archery was a main stay of Medieval Japanese Warfare. Though I would rather be hit by a japanese archer than say an English with a Yew Bow and 4 foot steel piercing arrow. There is one account of English Arrow piercing a 1ft door killing aperson on the other side. And another where the arrow went through plate, chain mail underneath, padding, skin, muscle, bone, muscle, skin, padding chain, plate and into the horse on the other side. Put melee weapons that pierce versus Asian leather (or even paper armor) can do a fair bit against them. Moreso than what people thought. As for the slashing nature of Katana, Wakizashi and Tanto yes that's their primary function and they can do very well with them. I've see a Katana cut through a English long sword in person both very well made each. They do have some precise stabbing ability too. So if we barred archers as back up I don't know who would win. Also part of my thesis in college (was on how weapons and tactics evolved vs armor and tactics in Medieval Europe) yes gunpowder was probably the final death knell of medival arms and armor but it was dying before that. The economy of arms and armor was just getting to expensive vs it's usefulness. Yeah a full plated knight was well protected vs a lot of weapons, but if threw 30 peasants with Bills, Halberd, and Poll Axes at him you would kill him. and 30 peasants lives armed with those pole arms (which were cheap) was a lot less expensive that full plate mail.
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Post by Power Ranger on Sept 13, 2021 21:04:46 GMT
I studied history units and one lecturer who was a bit of a boffin on the subject said that ultimately, as far as swords go, stabbing swords would have been more effective than weapons designed primarily for slashing. He said that a highly trained Spanish swordsman would likely have defeated Japanese samurais. The Spanish were the top dogs at sword innovation (the progress of which halted when firearms came into use). The debate would be iffy. Yes Samurais armor was more effective vs slashing weapons. (as their primary weapon they were were going against was slashing) the armor was suprisingly resilient to penetrative stabs. This maybe due to the fact that archery was a main stay of Medieval Japanese Warfare. Though I would rather be hit by a japanese archer than say an English with a Yew Bow and 4 foot steel piercing arrow. There is one account of English Arrow piercing a 1ft door killing aperson on the other side. And another where the arrow went through plate, chain mail underneath, padding, skin, muscle, bone, muscle, skin, padding chain, plate and into the horse on the other side. Put melee weapons that pierce versus Asian leather (or even paper armor) can do a fair bit against them. Moreso than what people thought. As for the slashing nature of Katana, Wakizashi and Tanto yes that's their primary function and they can do very well with them. I've see a Katana cut through a English long sword in person both very well made each. They do have some precise stabbing ability too. So if we barred archers as back up I don't know who would win. Also part of my thesis in college (was on how weapons and tactics evolved vs armor and tactics in Medieval Europe) yes gunpowder was probably the final death knell of medival arms and armor but it was dying before that. The economy of arms and armor was just getting to expensive vs it's usefulness. Yeah a full plated knight was well protected vs a lot of weapons, but if threw 30 peasants with Bills, Halberd, and Poll Axes at him you would kill him. and 30 peasants lives armed with those pole arms (which were cheap) was a lot less expensive that full plate mail. What this guy claimed was that the Spanish stabbing techniques and swords made for this purpose were faster than swords used for slashing. He claims that much research has been conducted into it including all kinds of mathematics were used. I don’t know if armor was even factored into this particular equation. I’m pretty sure the studies were focused on duelling as opposed to warfare.
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Post by Vassaggo on Sept 13, 2021 21:08:05 GMT
The debate would be iffy. Yes Samurais armor was more effective vs slashing weapons. (as their primary weapon they were were going against was slashing) the armor was suprisingly resilient to penetrative stabs. This maybe due to the fact that archery was a main stay of Medieval Japanese Warfare. Though I would rather be hit by a japanese archer than say an English with a Yew Bow and 4 foot steel piercing arrow. There is one account of English Arrow piercing a 1ft door killing aperson on the other side. And another where the arrow went through plate, chain mail underneath, padding, skin, muscle, bone, muscle, skin, padding chain, plate and into the horse on the other side. Put melee weapons that pierce versus Asian leather (or even paper armor) can do a fair bit against them. Moreso than what people thought. As for the slashing nature of Katana, Wakizashi and Tanto yes that's their primary function and they can do very well with them. I've see a Katana cut through a English long sword in person both very well made each. They do have some precise stabbing ability too. So if we barred archers as back up I don't know who would win. Also part of my thesis in college (was on how weapons and tactics evolved vs armor and tactics in Medieval Europe) yes gunpowder was probably the final death knell of medival arms and armor but it was dying before that. The economy of arms and armor was just getting to expensive vs it's usefulness. Yeah a full plated knight was well protected vs a lot of weapons, but if threw 30 peasants with Bills, Halberd, and Poll Axes at him you would kill him. and 30 peasants lives armed with those pole arms (which were cheap) was a lot less expensive that full plate mail. What this guy claimed was that the Spanish stabbing techniques and swords made for this purpose were faster than swords used for slashing. He claims that much research has been conducted into it including all kinds of mathematics were used. I don’t know if armor was even factored into this particular equation. I’m pretty sure the studies were focused on duelling as opposed to warfare. That makes more sense. Especially when you are talking about rapier style Spanish swords that were made to basically pick a person a part.
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Post by leesilm on Sept 14, 2021 4:04:47 GMT
Fellow possessor of a history degree here --- I LOVE YOUR ROOM! I'd love to know where you got the one war-hammer, cause I'm in love with it. If I weren't in the middle of moving, I'd go take pictures of my collection on the walls of my home-office (I have a decorative hand and a half sword, a couple of LotR prop replicas, a staff, various archery pieces, a Spanish stiletto, and some other stuff). I think the 80s/TMNT just made us all want to be able to handle ourselves against members of the Foot, if we bumped into them in a dark, NYC alleyway. Plus, we all sought out these weapons of a bygone era, and each found particular ones we liked.
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Post by Vassaggo on Sept 14, 2021 4:22:02 GMT
I have a history degree, with a concentration in Western Civilization, and a focus on Medieval Time Period. Guess what style of weapons I like . I grew up in the same time period as you but D&D had more of an affect on my style of weapons than TMNT. btw this is how I decorated my living room and part of my library. Waiting on a German Flameberg to go behind the shield and gauntlets. Fellow possessor of a history degree here --- I LOVE YOUR ROOM! I'd love to know where you got the one war-hammer, cause I'm in love with it. If I weren't in the middle of moving, I'd go take pictures of my collection on the walls of my home-office (I have a decorative hand and a half sword, a couple of LotR prop replicas, a staff, various archery pieces, a Spanish stiletto, and some other stuff). I think the 80s/TMNT just made us all want to be able to handle ourselves against members of the Foot, if we bumped into them in a dark, NYC alleyway. Plus, we all sought out these weapons of a bygone era, and each found particular ones we liked. I've got a halberd head around here somewhere that I need to mount. lets see the warhammer (horsemen's pick) is from here. which is a little cheaper than I bought it at. Think i bought it there a few years back for like 100. www.medievalcollectibles.com/product/heavy-war-hammer/and here is the axe that I bought to match it. Both have square handles. both are close in color in real life. Both have langets though the hammer's are longer. www.by-the-sword.com/p-840-war-axe-hammer.aspx
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