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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on May 19, 2017 13:50:23 GMT
I wish I could be that nonchalant and pragmatic. A unified Cinematic version of the Marvel Universe is important to me. Not life-or-death important but maybe indoor-plumbing important. If not in this iteration than definitely the next. I have total confidence that it will happen. I find what you just said extremely interesting.
Will there be some sort of end to the MCU, where they decide to start from a completely different direction. It would be very very interesting to be able to look back on the current MCU if they ever create a second with all of the characters. I have to say, I'd be happy to see them try it.
The next iteration of the MCU is something I will take the children I do not yet have to see and enjoy. I know previous statement is blasphemy to those who want their cinematic, superhero literature grim and gritty all of the time but, whatever. Disney stories get remade and rebooted all of the time. Given the success of the current iteration of the MCU, I don't see why Disney wouldn't take a three to five year breather after it's over and do it all over again (assuming the entire genre does not collapse). The world building in a new iteration of the MCU would be a sight to behold. By the time they're ready, they may be able to profit from nearly two decades worth of business intelligence.
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on May 19, 2017 14:03:23 GMT
No offense but, fuck Fox and fuck Sony too. Ditto. I like some x-men movies but between soft reboots that universe is a mess... Deadpool... so what deadpool is the deadpool? that awful thing from origins? is that deadpool of the x-men and new dedpool is not connected but it kind of is? what about colossus? these reboots and soft-reboots were tolerated in an era where the MCU didn't exist. The best part of a lot of comics is the appearence of other heroes. My favorite of all time single comic page is in Daredevil "Born Again" when the avengers appear. "A soldier with a voice that could command a God... and does". So yeah fuck fox... And sony with their crappy spin-offs. And, for better or worse, they both had their chance. Fox with the X-Men is like the musician who only knows how to strum one note on the same instrument over and over again. Sony, bless their stony corporate heart, did a great job with Spider-Man initially but, the Amazing Spider-Man franchise, while stylistically rich, was also creatively bankrupt. Now were going to be stuck watching them scrape the bottom of the Spiderverse to save their hemorrhaging studio - good luck. I kid you not when I say, I will not pay to see a single one of those spinoff movies. And the worse part of of all of this is that we, as fans, have allowed the studios to set us against each other. In no other fandom would these artificial, corporate barriers be permissible let alone tolerated as the status quo. If you are one of those fans who only like Spider-Man or you only like the X-Men, god bless you but, they were all born in the same universe and it is practically destiny for them to be reunited.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on May 19, 2017 14:19:14 GMT
Ditto. I like some x-men movies but between soft reboots that universe is a mess... Deadpool... so what deadpool is the deadpool? that awful thing from origins? is that deadpool of the x-men and new dedpool is not connected but it kind of is? what about colossus? these reboots and soft-reboots were tolerated in an era where the MCU didn't exist. The best part of a lot of comics is the appearence of other heroes. My favorite of all time single comic page is in Daredevil "Born Again" when the avengers appear. "A soldier with a voice that could command a God... and does". So yeah fuck fox... And sony with their crappy spin-offs. And, for better or worse, they both had their chance. Fox with the X-Men is like the musician who only knows how to strum one note on the same instrument over and over again. Sony, bless their stony corporate heart, did a great job with Spider-Man initially but, the Amazing Spider-Man franchise, while stylistically rich, was also creatively bankrupt. Now were going to be stuck watching them scrape the bottom of the Spiderverse to save their hemorrhaging studio - good luck. I kid you not when I say, I will not pay to see a single one of those spinoff movies. And the worse part of of all of this is that we, as fans, have allowed the studios to set us against each other. In no other fandom would these artificial, corporate barriers be permissible let alone tolerated as the status quo. If you are one of those fans who only like Spider-Man or you only like the X-Men, god bless you but, they were all born in the same universe and it is practically destiny for them to be reunited. The hell are talking about? The current X-Men films are all about time travel shenanigans now.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2017 14:20:15 GMT
Ditto. I like some x-men movies but between soft reboots that universe is a mess... Deadpool... so what deadpool is the deadpool? that awful thing from origins? is that deadpool of the x-men and new dedpool is not connected but it kind of is? what about colossus? these reboots and soft-reboots were tolerated in an era where the MCU didn't exist. The best part of a lot of comics is the appearence of other heroes. My favorite of all time single comic page is in Daredevil "Born Again" when the avengers appear. "A soldier with a voice that could command a God... and does". So yeah fuck fox... And sony with their crappy spin-offs. And, for better or worse, they both had their chance. Fox with the X-Men is like the musician who only knows how to strum one note on the same instrument over and over again. Sony, bless their stony corporate heart, did a great job with Spider-Man initially but, the Amazing Spider-Man franchise, while stylistically rich, was also creatively bankrupt. Now were going to be stuck watching them scrape the bottom of the Spiderverse to save their hemorrhaging studio - good luck. I kid you not when I say, I will not pay to see a single one of those spinoff movies. And the worse part of of all of this is that we, as fans, have allowed the studios to set us against each other. In no other fandom would these artificial, corporate barriers be permissible let alone tolerated as the status quo. If you are one of those fans who only like Spider-Man or you only like the X-Men, god bless you but, they were all born in the same universe and it is practically destiny for them to be reunited. yes, finally someone that says things how they are. nowadays i feel a bittersweet taste when i read x-men comics like the shorts of wolverine and spidey. i loved those, the most unlikely characters make a great duo, who knew? The one about logan's birthday was really good. But can i hope to see this in a movie? NOOOOOO because Fox has wolvie, sony has spidey. They should be united! there are a million more team-ups that will never happen because of this and its...wrong, just... wrong.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on May 19, 2017 14:23:15 GMT
I hope not. Don't need a Disney monopoly. Fox is doing unique things with their X-Men movies. Disney would have NEVER given us Deadpool or Logan. Keep them away from Feige. Agreed. I'm a fan of the MCU but CBMs, like the comics themselves, should have varied tones. To be honest I haven't liked most of the X-Men films, but I appreciate how they have a different feel to them than the MCU. And you're right, Disney would never have given us Deadpool or Logan.
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on May 19, 2017 14:30:05 GMT
I disagree. Hulks are and have been hated and feared because of their destructive capacity not because of what they are. Being a Hulk is a condition. Being a mutant is a birthright. Mutants are generally hated because of their destructive capacity. And being a Hulk in Lyra's(red headed girl in the panels I posted) case is a birthright. Again, I disagree (and respectfully so). The primary source of the hatred for mutants is the fact that they represent the next step in human evolution. That is threatening to humanity on a fundamental level. Extinction via your own progeny trumps the property damage they might inflict on your home or tree house. In my mind, that is the core of the Homo sapien vs Homo superior debate. The fact that people also hate Mutants because they can look different and destroy things is also relevant however, that has been happening between human beings (sans superpowers), since we were split off into separate races. The Weapon Plus program features both Captain America and Wolverine. After his transformation, the Captain was handed a uniform, gun and shield and was set to the glorious purpose of saving the world. Wolverine was mutilated, tortured and brainwashed into becoming a government-sponsored killing machine who could only operate in the shadows. If you think the fact that he was a mutant had nothing to do with that, I don't know what to say to you. If you go back to our original argument, you believe there is no double standard and I happen to disagree. I don't think were going to get anywhere by playing the "panels" game so why don't we just agree to disagree?
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on May 19, 2017 14:33:26 GMT
And, for better or worse, they both had their chance. Fox with the X-Men is like the musician who only knows how to strum one note on the same instrument over and over again. Sony, bless their stony corporate heart, did a great job with Spider-Man initially but, the Amazing Spider-Man franchise, while stylistically rich, was also creatively bankrupt. Now were going to be stuck watching them scrape the bottom of the Spiderverse to save their hemorrhaging studio - good luck. I kid you not when I say, I will not pay to see a single one of those spinoff movies. And the worse part of of all of this is that we, as fans, have allowed the studios to set us against each other. In no other fandom would these artificial, corporate barriers be permissible let alone tolerated as the status quo. If you are one of those fans who only like Spider-Man or you only like the X-Men, god bless you but, they were all born in the same universe and it is practically destiny for them to be reunited. The hell are talking about? The current X-Men films are all about time travel shenanigans now. What are you talking about? Those "time travel shenanigans" are window dressing around the same issues that were present in the first X-Men movie.
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on May 19, 2017 14:38:43 GMT
breaking: Godzilla wants to destroy Tokyo. Yep. And I hope he succeeds.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on May 19, 2017 14:44:50 GMT
Mutants are generally hated because of their destructive capacity. And being a Hulk in Lyra's(red headed girl in the panels I posted) case is a birthright. Again, I disagree (and respectfully so). The primary source of the hatred for mutants is the fact that they represent the next step in human evolution. That is threatening to humanity on a fundamental level. Extinction via your own progeny trumps the property damage they might inflict on your home or tree house. In my mind, that is the core of the Homo sapien vs Homo superior debate. The fact that people also hate Mutants because they can look different and destroy things is also relevant however, that has been happening between human beings (sans superpowers), since we were split off into separate races. The Weapon Plus program features both Captain America and Wolverine. After his transformation, the Captain was handed a uniform, gun and shield and was set to the glorious purpose of saving the world. Wolverine was mutilated, tortured and brainwashed into becoming a government-sponsored killing machine who could only operate in the shadows. If you think the fact that he was mutant had nothing to do with that, I don't know what say to you. If you go back to our original argument, you believe there is no double standard and I happen to disagree. I don't think were going to get anywhere by playing the "panels" game so why don't we just agree to disagree? Some of the stuff you're saying are retcons that were made in the 2000s. Captain America and Wolverine's origins had nothing to do with each other until Grant Morrison's New X-Men run. Which had the explaination that humans were subconsciously mind controlled by Sublime into hating Mutants, iirc.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on May 19, 2017 14:48:23 GMT
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on May 19, 2017 15:00:45 GMT
Again, I disagree (and respectfully so). The primary source of the hatred for mutants is the fact that they represent the next step in human evolution. That is threatening to humanity on a fundamental level. Extinction via your own progeny trumps the property damage they might inflict on your home or tree house. In my mind, that is the core of the Homo sapien vs Homo superior debate. The fact that people also hate Mutants because they can look different and destroy things is also relevant however, that has been happening between human beings (sans superpowers), since we were split off into separate races. The Weapon Plus program features both Captain America and Wolverine. After his transformation, the Captain was handed a uniform, gun and shield and was set to the glorious purpose of saving the world. Wolverine was mutilated, tortured and brainwashed into becoming a government-sponsored killing machine who could only operate in the shadows. If you think the fact that he was mutant had nothing to do with that, I don't know what say to you. If you go back to our original argument, you believe there is no double standard and I happen to disagree. I don't think were going to get anywhere by playing the "panels" game so why don't we just agree to disagree? Some of the stuff you're saying are retcons that were made in the 2000s. Captain America and Wolverine's origins had nothing to do with each other until Grant Morrison's New X-Men run. Which had the explaination that humans were subconscious mind controlled by Sublime into hating Mutants, iirc. You don't want to give an inch on this one, do you? Fine, in the current comic book climate, maybe human superheroes and mutants are equally reviled or beloved despite the nature/origin of their powers. I don't know... That said, the X-men were designed to be different than the status quo heroes of the era who were generally well liked by the public. The cosmic radiation-exposed FF never had groups of pitchfork wielding villagers chasing them because of their "deformities." In any event, all of this is just a distraction. My core issue here is that Marvel IP should be reunited and honestly, I don't care what house they live under. I'm not a corporate fetishist. All due respect, multiple universes is more of a DC thing.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 19, 2017 15:06:17 GMT
The next iteration of the MCU is something I will take the children I do not yet have to see and enjoy. I know previous statement is blasphemy to those who want their cinematic, superhero literature grim and gritty all of the time but, whatever. Disney stories get remade and rebooted all of the time. Given the success of the current iteration of the MCU, I don't see why Disney wouldn't take a three to five year breather after it's over and do it all over again (assuming the entire genre does not collapse). The world building in a new iteration of the MCU would be a sight to behold. By the time they're ready, they may be able to profit from nearly two decades worth of business intelligence. I'm just not sure if it's going to happen that way. I'm more inclined to think that as they get new properties, they will just become the focus of an MCU that is still continuing from this one. I don't see a reboot coming for a long long time. So long, it's impossible to say what they'll do at that point, or if they're still nearly as quality/popular/profitable.
For instance, IF, they get any rights back to Fantastic Four and their characters for post phase 3, they'll just join the ongoing continuing. They aren't going to reboot with all the sequels they have coming out, even if other actors don't stay around (which I think they all will). And at least for now, I have to assume the same would happen if they ever got the X-Men back. Then of course there is always the option for recasts if they want to bring back an older character to prominence.
I just don't see this version of the MCU ending for at least another 10 years. At least. So I have no idea what rebooting a 20 year old 40 film franchise even looks like. It's way more than even the Bond franchise did when it rebooted.
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on May 19, 2017 15:07:31 GMT
And, for better or worse, they both had their chance. Fox with the X-Men is like the musician who only knows how to strum one note on the same instrument over and over again. Sony, bless their stony corporate heart, did a great job with Spider-Man initially but, the Amazing Spider-Man franchise, while stylistically rich, was also creatively bankrupt. Now were going to be stuck watching them scrape the bottom of the Spiderverse to save their hemorrhaging studio - good luck. I kid you not when I say, I will not pay to see a single one of those spinoff movies. And the worse part of of all of this is that we, as fans, have allowed the studios to set us against each other. In no other fandom would these artificial, corporate barriers be permissible let alone tolerated as the status quo. If you are one of those fans who only like Spider-Man or you only like the X-Men, god bless you but, they were all born in the same universe and it is practically destiny for them to be reunited. yes, finally someone that says things how they are. nowadays i feel a bittersweet taste when i read x-men comics like the shorts of wolverine and spidey. i loved those, the most unlikely characters make a great duo, who knew? The one about logan's birthday was really good. But can i hope to see this in a movie? NOOOOOO because Fox has wolvie, sony has spidey. They should be united! there are a million more team-ups that will never happen because of this and its...wrong, just... wrong. Oh, God yes. And if you subscribe to this lazy, braindead mantra that it's good that Marvel's IP is split across studios than you have never understood the full power and sheer awe of a Marvel publication. If you only ever bought X-books because it was sexy or cool, great but, please don't feel like your opinion should have all this weight in the debate. Tourists come and go. True believers never die.
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on May 19, 2017 15:21:16 GMT
Thanks for sharing, that cleared up a lot. In your opinion, does Fox's current approach line up will with the spirit of the comics? Has "free-will vs determination" ever been an ongoing thing for the X-Men? Or, is this a convenient way for Fox to get out of years of continuity issues with the films?
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on May 19, 2017 15:30:45 GMT
The next iteration of the MCU is something I will take the children I do not yet have to see and enjoy. I know previous statement is blasphemy to those who want their cinematic, superhero literature grim and gritty all of the time but, whatever. Disney stories get remade and rebooted all of the time. Given the success of the current iteration of the MCU, I don't see why Disney wouldn't take a three to five year breather after it's over and do it all over again (assuming the entire genre does not collapse). The world building in a new iteration of the MCU would be a sight to behold. By the time they're ready, they may be able to profit from nearly two decades worth of business intelligence. I'm just not sure if it's going to happen that way. I'm more inclined to think that as they get new properties, they will just become the focus of an MCU that is still continuing from this one. I don't see a reboot coming for a long long time. So long, it's impossible to say what they'll do at that point, or if they're still nearly as quality/popular/profitable.
For instance, IF, they get any rights back to Fantastic Four and their characters for post phase 3, they'll just join the ongoing continuing. They aren't going to reboot with all the sequels they have coming out, even if other actors don't stay around (which I think they all will). And at least for now, I have to assume the same would happen if they ever got the X-Men back. Then of course there is always the option for recasts if they want to bring back an older character to prominence.
I just don't see this version of the MCU ending for at least another 10 years. At least. So I have no idea what rebooting a 20 year old 40 film franchise even looks like. It's way more than even the Bond franchise did when it rebooted.
Were are in completely new territory here. We can speculate and fantasize to distraction but, we can't know for sure. If they continue to expand on this same universe indefinitely - that will be the single greatest feat ever achieved in the history of cinema.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on May 19, 2017 15:31:03 GMT
Thanks for sharing, that cleared up a lot. In your opinion, does Fox's current approach line up will with the spirit of the comics? Has "free-will vs determination" ever been an ongoing thing for the X-Men? Or, is this a convenient way for Fox to get out of years of continuity issues with the films? Kinda. In the sense that there was always a dark future for the X-Men no matter how they changed the past. The original Days of Future Past, 90s cartoon, and Wolverine & The X-Men show played with that idea.
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on May 19, 2017 15:45:19 GMT
Thanks for sharing, that cleared up a lot. In your opinion, does Fox's current approach line up will with the spirit of the comics? Has "free-will vs determination" ever been an ongoing thing for the X-Men? Or, is this a convenient way for Fox to get out of years of continuity issues with the films? Kinda. In the sense that there was always a dark future for the X-Men no matter how they changed the past. The original Days of Future Past, 90s cartoon, and Wolverine & The X-Men show played with that idea. Fair enough, me personally, I think they're mining the wrong mineral when it comes to the X-Men IP. Time travel almost always leads to mediocre and lazy storytelling in the wrong hands ( just look at the Flash on CW). Don't you want to see the Mojoverse, Murderworld, the Shi'ar throneworld, Avalon or Limbo... Or do you prefer Fox's "grounded" and frankly restrictive treatment?
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 19, 2017 15:46:21 GMT
Were are in completely new territory here. We can speculate and fantasize to distraction but, we can't know for sure. If they continue to expand on this same universe indefinitely - that will be the single greatest feat ever achieved in the history of cinema. I might argue that it already is.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on May 19, 2017 15:49:43 GMT
yes, finally someone that says things how they are. nowadays i feel a bittersweet taste when i read x-men comics like the shorts of wolverine and spidey. i loved those, the most unlikely characters make a great duo, who knew? The one about logan's birthday was really good. But can i hope to see this in a movie? NOOOOOO because Fox has wolvie, sony has spidey. They should be united! there are a million more team-ups that will never happen because of this and its...wrong, just... wrong. Oh, God yes. And if you subscribe to this lazy, braindead mantra that it's good that Marvel's IP is split across studios than you have never understood the full power and sheer awe of a Marvel publication. If you only ever bought X-books because it was sexy or cool, great but, please don't feel like your opinion should have all this weight in the debate. Tourists come and go. True believers never die. It's funny because I'm fine with their IP spread out across various studios. The X-Men were probably my least favorite book, I was always into the Avengers. Each corner of the MCU had its own distinctive feel, that's what made the MU great. That's also what makes the difference in tone between the MCU and the Netflix shows great. It gives the audience choices. It's worked out really well for me as an Avengers fan because I never liked the idea of Spider-Man as an Avenger. However, they've brought him into the fold and made it work splendidly on screen. But the X-Men were always too dark and broody for my taste. The Avengers are a team of elite warriors who choose to fight evil. The X-Men are a bunch of crybabies who whine about not being accepted, segregate themselves from society and fight mostly amongst themselves. Seriously, I think most X-Men villains are evil twins/clones, alternate future selves or former teammates. The world would be a better place if they'd ante up and stop whining. But I digress... Anyway, nobody appreciates a shared universe more than I do, believe me. But not every character or group meshes well with others, and the entirety of Marvel Comics should never have the same tone-- which is exactly what would happen if they were to come together under one studio.
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on May 19, 2017 16:10:27 GMT
Oh, God yes. And if you subscribe to this lazy, braindead mantra that it's good that Marvel's IP is split across studios than you have never understood the full power and sheer awe of a Marvel publication. If you only ever bought X-books because it was sexy or cool, great but, please don't feel like your opinion should have all this weight in the debate. Tourists come and go. True believers never die. It's funny because I'm fine with their IP spread out across various studios. The X-Men were probably my least favorite book, I was always into the Avengers. Each corner of the MCU had its own distinctive feel, that's what made the MU great. That's also what makes the difference in tone between the MCU and the Netflix shows great. It gives the audience choices. It's worked out really well for me as an Avengers fan because I never liked the idea of Spider-Man as an Avenger. However, they've brought him into the fold and made it work splendidly on screen. But the X-Men were always too dark and broody for my taste. The Avengers are a team of elite warriors who choose to fight evil. The X-Men are a bunch of crybabies who whine about not being accepted, segregate themselves from society and fight mostly amongst themselves. Seriously, I think most X-Men villains are evil twins/clones, alternate future selves or former teammates. The world would be a better place if they'd ante up and stop whining. But I digress... Anyway, nobody appreciates a shared universe more than I do, believe me. But not every character or group meshes well with others, and the entirety of Marvel Comics should never have the same tone-- which is exactly what would happen if they were to come together under one studio. The contrasts you describe is what makes the Marvel Universe uniquely great comic book literature. I don't believe that segregating the IP according studios based on "tone" and "geography" acknowledges that highly distinguishing feature. The Marvel Universe is a study in contrasts - just like the real universe.
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