|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 5, 2023 16:00:22 GMT
i can remember when the first big changes came in the late 70's. Arizona and Arizona State left the WAC for the PAC-8. The Big East and Metro (Louisville, Cincy, Memphis et al) formed. The eastern independents were talking to conferences, Miami, FSU, Penn State. Had anyone even suggested that Washington and Maryland would be in the same conference, they would have been laughed out of the room. The original Big East and Metro came and went, the mighty SWC is extinct and the PAC is all but dead. The landscape in the NCAA is always shifting, but never at this magnitude or this often. It's like the NBA players forming super teams every other year. Don't like your current situation? Follow the money somewhere else, leaving tradition and the very culture of the sport a smoking ruin in your wake.
|
|
|
Post by twothousandonemark on Aug 5, 2023 16:14:41 GMT
i can remember when the first big changes came in the late 70's. Arizona and Arizona State left the WAC for the PAC-8. The Big East and Metro (Louisville, Cincy, Memphis et al) formed. The eastern independents were talking to conferences, Miami, FSU, Penn State. Had anyone even suggested that Washington and Maryland would be in the same conference, they would have been laughed out of the room. The original Big East and Metro came and went, the mighty SWC is extinct and the PAC is all but dead. I will admit, this all seems like a recent mud fight... & yet, this stuff has been going on for decades.
|
|
|
Post by NJtoTX on Aug 5, 2023 17:26:11 GMT
Stanford probably joins Notre Dame as an indy.
|
|
|
Post by TheGoodMan19 on Aug 6, 2023 2:19:06 GMT
Stanford probably joins Notre Dame as an indy. Can a major program make it as an independent without their own exclusive TV deal, like Notre Dame?
There are still rumors that the Big 10 will take Cal and Stanford and go to 20 teams. They do reside in a big TV market, which makes them appetizing. Why wouldn't they have when they took Washington and Oregon? I think the four leftover will go to Mountain West. Yeah, it going to be a comedown to go from playing USC in the Coliseum to playing Utah State in their tiny stadium. But what else do they have?
|
|
Illini Guy
New Member
@illiniguy
Posts: 23
Likes: 9
|
Post by Illini Guy on Aug 7, 2023 21:00:38 GMT
jesus, what a shock friday was, lol
|
|
|
Post by TheGoodMan19 on Aug 7, 2023 21:45:47 GMT
ACC in discussions to take Cal and Stanford.
Oy vey
|
|
Illini Guy
New Member
@illiniguy
Posts: 23
Likes: 9
|
Post by Illini Guy on Aug 7, 2023 22:10:45 GMT
ACC in discussions to take Cal and Stanford. Oy vey good fits, but long flights
|
|
|
Post by TheGoodMan19 on Aug 7, 2023 22:16:25 GMT
ACC in discussions to take Cal and Stanford. Oy vey good fits, but long flights The ACC has one football school (Louisville) in a state not on the east coast. Now to add two west coast teams? And Stanford and California aren't USC and Oregon.
They control a big TV market Poor Oregon State and Washington State. Will the last school to leave please turn out the lights?
|
|
Illini Guy
New Member
@illiniguy
Posts: 23
Likes: 9
|
Post by Illini Guy on Aug 7, 2023 22:21:46 GMT
good fits, but long flights The ACC has one football school (Louisville) in a state not on the east coast. Now to add two west coast teams? And Stanford and California aren't USC and Oregon.
They control a big TV market Poor Oregon State and Washington State. Will the last school to leave please turn out the lights?
maybe big 12 will save them
|
|
|
Post by TheGoodMan19 on Aug 7, 2023 22:38:16 GMT
There still the potential destabilization of the ACC. If Florida State leaves, it will be huge and have a domino effect. I've seen rumors that UNC, Virginia, NC State and Virginia Tech aren't happy sharing football revenue with the tiny schools, Duke, Clemson, BC and Wake. If the ACC starts to lose schools, the other big conferences, Big 10, Big XII and ACC will want to reserve seats at the big table.
|
|
Illini Guy
New Member
@illiniguy
Posts: 23
Likes: 9
|
Post by Illini Guy on Aug 7, 2023 22:41:38 GMT
i am curious to see what sort of legal fight that will trigger
|
|
|
Post by TheGoodMan19 on Aug 7, 2023 22:54:26 GMT
i am curious to see what sort of legal fight that will trigger I've seen that it would cost FSU $180,000,000 to leave the ACC and the ACC might be able to block the broadcasting of Seminole games. But most of what I read seems to think that it's certain. They talk about revenue differences, FSU, with an enrollment of 45,000+ getting the same as Wake Forest, enrollment 8000+. I'm betting it's more the thought of them leaving the ACC and jumping right into the SEC. Nice to trade BC and Duke off your football schedule and put LSU and Alabama on it. Miami is talking about leaving also. They just bring the TV market with them. The Hurricanes haven't been relevant in football since they lost the title to Ohio State in 2002.
|
|
|
Post by twothousandonemark on Aug 14, 2023 4:44:00 GMT
NCAAF relegation seems to a topic now... I'll believe that when I see it.
SEC teams will probably have a f'n grandfather clause on that - no relegation for them until the year 3109.
|
|
|
Post by TheGoodMan19 on Aug 14, 2023 16:05:52 GMT
NCAAF relegation seems to a topic now... I'll believe that when I see it. SEC teams will probably have a f'n grandfather clause on that - no relegation for them until the year 3109. Yeah, there's no way the SEC goes for that. The worst team in the SEC last year was Texas A&M. And the SEC will say (truthfully, to be sure) that the Aggies would pound a lot of ACC and PAC teams. And to just take the five worst teams guarantees that no SEC team will ever be relegated.
Relegation would demolish a Power 5 school due to the transfer rules. Everyone, and I mean everyone on A&M's roster is leaving rather than play in the SWAC or wherever they were exiled to.
|
|
|
Post by twothousandonemark on Aug 30, 2023 14:54:38 GMT
Oh well, seems like the endgame is clearer than I thought... relegation based on football expenditure. Maybe not as bad as we imagine though. One thing's for sure - the geographic based structure as we've always known it is gone forever, at least for the blue blood programs.
Alabama, do they really want to keep the likes of Vanderbilt getting oodles of tv money & their football doesn't go anywhere? Ohio State, how long will they want to see Indiana football keep cashing its cheques? I've read/heard that's the crux of the future - there'll be a cutting the cord of schools in power conferences (as we know them) who haven't nearly the interest in competing for championships.
That's okay I think, when Oklahoma fans stop seeing 1-2 loss seasons being the norm, they'll realize that 16 team playoff is the season goal, not appeasing voters hanging by a thread of 1 or 2 losses. NCAAF thinks it wants to be NFL lite, & well, it's getting there I guess. Bowl games have never been more meaningless, & those'll be overwhelmed by expanded playoffs already anyways.
20 team 'premier league' of highest paying, most committed schools - maybe 8 of those make the playoff. 20 team 'championship league' based on the same, 4 of those... & then guarantee 2 at-large spots for the rest. That's 40 traditionally strong football schools annually trying above & beyond, & then the rest still in the mix.
Ohio State, Michigan, USC, Oregon, Texas, Oklahoma, Florida State, Clemson, Miami, Notre Dame, Alabama, LSU, Texas A&M, Auburn, Ole Miss, Florida, Tennessee, South Carolina... 20 team Premier League to start without much commotion - & the next 20 in their League just below. Keep traditional rivalries, open up scheduling freedom, it might just work.
|
|
|
Post by TheGoodMan19 on Aug 30, 2023 15:48:02 GMT
Oh well, seems like the endgame is clearer than I thought... relegation based on football expenditure. Maybe not as bad as we imagine though. One thing's for sure - the geographic based structure as we've always known it is gone forever, at least for the blue blood programs. Alabama, do they really want to keep the likes of Vanderbilt getting oodles of tv money & their football doesn't go anywhere? Ohio State, how long will they want to see Indiana football keep cashing its cheques? I've read/heard that's the crux of the future - there'll be a cutting the cord of schools in power conferences (as we know them) who haven't nearly the interest in competing for championships. That's okay I think, when Oklahoma fans stop seeing 1-2 loss seasons being the norm, they'll realize that 16 team playoff is the season goal, not appeasing voters hanging by a thread of 1 or 2 losses. NCAAF thinks it wants to be NFL lite, & well, it's getting there I guess. Bowl games have never been more meaningless, & those'll be overwhelmed by expanded playoffs already anyways. 20 team 'premier league' of highest paying, most committed schools - maybe 8 of those make the playoff. 20 team 'championship league' based on the same, 4 of those... & then guarantee 2 at-large spots for the rest. That's 40 traditionally strong football schools annually trying above & beyond, & then the rest still in the mix. Ohio State, Michigan, USC, Oregon, Texas, Oklahoma, Florida State, Clemson, Miami, Notre Dame, Alabama, LSU, Texas A&M, Auburn, Ole Miss, Florida, Tennessee, South Carolina... 20 team Premier League to start without much commotion - & the next 20 in their League just below. Keep traditional rivalries, open up scheduling freedom, it might just work. CFB is cyclical. Once upon a time, Oregon was the doormat of the PAC and Florida the dregs of the SEC. Ole Miss a superpower? Alabama had rotten season in the days between Bryant and Shula (4-7 in 1997, 3-8 in 2000, 4-9 in 2003). Clemson was crap in the 90's. And there's no guarantee the Tide don't sink back to mediocrity when Shula retires. In 1987, your Premier League would have started with Miami. In 1996, Nebraska.
The thing that scares me about the European model is the European System. All those clubs in Germany and one team wins 99.99999% of the time, Bayern Munich. All those clubs in Spain and two clubs, Real Madrid and Barcelona are always on top. I believe there are 96 clubs in the EFL and 4-5 have any hope of a title. I can't understand how a person can support a Burnley, a Hannover 96, a Celta Vigo, knowing damned well their club will never win a title, ever. Granted, it seems like the same teams over and over in CFB now, Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State. But no school stays on top forever. In the early 2000's, experts said USC would remain of top forever. They were successful and played in SoCal. Five star recruits would always rather go to LA than Ann Arbor or Tuscaloosa. Same thing was said about Miami in the 80's. Those dynasties failed. Boil CBF down to 20 teams and only 4-5 will matter. And they will stay on top forever.
BTW, Ole Miss and South Carolina over Penn State? Thems fighting words...
|
|
|
Post by twothousandonemark on Aug 30, 2023 16:06:55 GMT
I just think we're all worried about this messy chaos, when the other side of things will likely gravitate to demanded structure. Oregon & Washington can't forever sustain travelling to the Rust Belt can they??
On the flip side, NCAA basketball could embrace the same thing - ditch the conferences, & open up tiered leagues themselves. UCLA basketball probably doesn't love the idea of playing so much away from the west coast.
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 30, 2023 16:30:31 GMT
Oh well, seems like the endgame is clearer than I thought... relegation based on football expenditure. Maybe not as bad as we imagine though. One thing's for sure - the geographic based structure as we've always known it is gone forever, at least for the blue blood programs. Alabama, do they really want to keep the likes of Vanderbilt getting oodles of tv money & their football doesn't go anywhere? Ohio State, how long will they want to see Indiana football keep cashing its cheques? I've read/heard that's the crux of the future - there'll be a cutting the cord of schools in power conferences (as we know them) who haven't nearly the interest in competing for championships. That's okay I think, when Oklahoma fans stop seeing 1-2 loss seasons being the norm, they'll realize that 16 team playoff is the season goal, not appeasing voters hanging by a thread of 1 or 2 losses. NCAAF thinks it wants to be NFL lite, & well, it's getting there I guess. Bowl games have never been more meaningless, & those'll be overwhelmed by expanded playoffs already anyways. 20 team 'premier league' of highest paying, most committed schools - maybe 8 of those make the playoff. 20 team 'championship league' based on the same, 4 of those... & then guarantee 2 at-large spots for the rest. That's 40 traditionally strong football schools annually trying above & beyond, & then the rest still in the mix. Ohio State, Michigan, USC, Oregon, Texas, Oklahoma, Florida State, Clemson, Miami, Notre Dame, Alabama, LSU, Texas A&M, Auburn, Ole Miss, Florida, Tennessee, South Carolina... 20 team Premier League to start without much commotion - & the next 20 in their League just below. Keep traditional rivalries, open up scheduling freedom, it might just work. CFB is cyclical. Once upon a time, Oregon was the doormat of the PAC and Florida the dregs of the SEC. Ole Miss a superpower? Alabama had rotten season in the days between Bryant and Shula (4-7 in 1997, 3-8 in 2000, 4-9 in 2003). Clemson was crap in the 90's. And there's no guarantee the Tide don't sink back to mediocrity when Shula retires. In 1987, your Premier League would have started with Miami. In 1996, Nebraska.
The thing that scares me about the European model is the European System. All those clubs in Germany and one team wins 99.99999% of the time, Bayern Munich. All those clubs in Spain and two clubs, Real Madrid and Barcelona are always on top. I believe there are 96 clubs in the EFL and 4-5 have any hope of a title. I can't understand how a person can support a Burnley, a Hannover 96, a Celta Vigo, knowing damned well their club will never win a title, ever. Granted, it seems like the same teams over and over in CFB now, Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State. But no school stays on top forever. In the early 2000's, experts said USC would remain of top forever. They were successful and played in SoCal. Five star recruits would always rather go to LA than Ann Arbor or Tuscaloosa. Same thing was said about Miami in the 80's. Those dynasties failed. Boil CBF down to 20 teams and only 4-5 will matter. And they will stay on top forever.
BTW, Ole Miss and South Carolina over Penn State? Thems fighting words...
You mean Saban. Mike Shula was there before Saban, so I see where your wires got crossed.
|
|
|
Post by TheGoodMan19 on Aug 31, 2023 19:06:57 GMT
CFB is cyclical. Once upon a time, Oregon was the doormat of the PAC and Florida the dregs of the SEC. Ole Miss a superpower? Alabama had rotten season in the days between Bryant and Shula (4-7 in 1997, 3-8 in 2000, 4-9 in 2003). Clemson was crap in the 90's. And there's no guarantee the Tide don't sink back to mediocrity when Shula retires. In 1987, your Premier League would have started with Miami. In 1996, Nebraska.
The thing that scares me about the European model is the European System. All those clubs in Germany and one team wins 99.99999% of the time, Bayern Munich. All those clubs in Spain and two clubs, Real Madrid and Barcelona are always on top. I believe there are 96 clubs in the EFL and 4-5 have any hope of a title. I can't understand how a person can support a Burnley, a Hannover 96, a Celta Vigo, knowing damned well their club will never win a title, ever. Granted, it seems like the same teams over and over in CFB now, Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State. But no school stays on top forever. In the early 2000's, experts said USC would remain of top forever. They were successful and played in SoCal. Five star recruits would always rather go to LA than Ann Arbor or Tuscaloosa. Same thing was said about Miami in the 80's. Those dynasties failed. Boil CBF down to 20 teams and only 4-5 will matter. And they will stay on top forever.
BTW, Ole Miss and South Carolina over Penn State? Thems fighting words...
You mean Saban. Mike Shula was there before Saban, so I see where your wires got crossed. I was looking at the bad old days at Alabama and Mike Shula got stuck in my head
|
|
|
Post by TheGoodMan19 on Sept 1, 2023 15:41:10 GMT
|
|