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Post by Isapop on Feb 21, 2023 1:10:53 GMT
Pardon me, but do you have reputable sources of data instead of an organization that describes itself as "devoted exclusively to exposing and countering the homosexual activist agenda"?
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Post by Isapop on Feb 21, 2023 1:17:55 GMT
But "everybody" isn't called to chastity. The Church reserves that for gay people.(And if our pattern continues, you'll say it's because sex by a gay couple can't make a baby. And then I'll give you the examples of straight people who also can't make a baby but who aren't called to chastity by the Church, and ask why gay people are thus singled out, and then you won't respond.) Not just for gay people, but also for unmarried straight people and/or people called to the religious life. You really are intolerable. I asked you about God creating a non-sinful avenue for straight people (namely, marriage), while denying such an avenue for gay people ("How is that not obviously unfair of God?"). And you never responded. And any comparison with nuns and priests is ridiculous, since they choose to dedicate themselves to a calling that will prohibit sex. And they are always free to leave that calling if they choose.
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Post by Isapop on Feb 21, 2023 1:21:25 GMT
But "everybody" isn't called to chastity. The Church reserves that for gay people. (And if our pattern continues, you'll say it's because sex by a gay couple can't make a baby. And then I'll give you the examples of straight people who also can't make a baby but who aren't called to chastity by the Church, and ask why gay people are thus singled out, and then you won't respond.) No all people are called to chasity. Couples married in the Church are not called to chastity - obviously. (Restrained as I am, it's getting very hard to avoid insulting you.)
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Post by clusium on Feb 21, 2023 1:23:37 GMT
Not just for gay people, but also for unmarried straight people and/or people called to the religious life. You really are intolerable. I asked you about God creating a non-sinful avenue for straight people (namely, marriage), while denying such an avenue for gay people ("How is that not obviously unfair of God?"). And you never responded. And any comparison with nuns and priests is ridiculous, since they choose to dedicate themselves to a calling that will prohibit sex. And they are always free to leave that calling if they choose. Who ever said that sexual intercourse is a right?
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 21, 2023 1:26:31 GMT
But gays are extra broken according to your church and yet if it had not been for her sex abuse victims finally getting their case out in public, the church would still be sexually abusing its children. Everybody is extra broken according to the Church. But you hold special seminars to cure queers, when you need one to cure your church.
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Post by djorno on Feb 21, 2023 1:28:48 GMT
No all people are called to chasity. Couples married in the Church are not called to chastity - obviously. (Restrained as I am, it's getting very hard to avoid insulting you.) Biblically chasity means not having any sexual relations outside of marriage.
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Post by Isapop on Feb 21, 2023 1:29:24 GMT
You really are intolerable. I asked you about God creating a non-sinful avenue for straight people (namely, marriage), while denying such an avenue for gay people ("How is that not obviously unfair of God?"). And you never responded. And any comparison with nuns and priests is ridiculous, since they choose to dedicate themselves to a calling that will prohibit sex. And they are always free to leave that calling if they choose. Who ever said that sexual intercourse is a right? I didn't say that. (If you disagree, quote where I do.) I pointed out the obvious unequal treatment by God in his rule setting.
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Post by djorno on Feb 21, 2023 1:29:35 GMT
Everybody is extra broken according to the Church. But you hold special seminars to cure queers, when you need one to cure your church. There are queers who have been cured by their own testimony.
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Post by clusium on Feb 21, 2023 1:32:50 GMT
Everybody is extra broken according to the Church. But you hold special seminars to cure queers, when you need one to cure your church. We have programmes for all kinds of issues regarding sex. Eg: Theology of the Body. Theology Of The Body Institute
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Post by Isapop on Feb 21, 2023 1:33:02 GMT
Couples married in the Church are not called to chastity - obviously. (Restrained as I am, it's getting very hard to avoid insulting you.) Biblically chasity means not having any sexual relations outside of marriage. My exchange with Clusium deals with the Catholic Church's dictum that gay people are called to chastity because there is no marriage for them.
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 21, 2023 1:34:06 GMT
But you hold special seminars to cure queers, when you need one to cure your church. There are queers who have been cured by their own testimony. Good for them. I wonder if they use their imagination to think of hot men when they have to have sex with the little woman?
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 21, 2023 1:36:09 GMT
Biblically chasity means not having any sexual relations outside of marriage. My exchange with Clusium deals with the Catholic Church's dictum that gay people are called to chastity because there is no marriage for them. Yep, this is God’s special mission for them that doesn’t apply to their priesthood. They take a vow of chastity, but it’s rarely adhered to. I’m sure even Clusim has known a few priests who keep a girl friend on the side.
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Post by djorno on Feb 21, 2023 1:37:21 GMT
Pardon me, but do you have reputable sources of data instead of an organization that describes itself as "devoted exclusively to exposing and countering the homosexual activist agenda"? You know if fakenews.com reported that Neil Armstrong just became the first man to walk on the moon, it wouldn’t make it less true, right? The names and details and data are there in the link. Look them up if you’re skeptical.
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 21, 2023 1:39:43 GMT
Pardon me, but do you have reputable sources of data instead of an organization that describes itself as "devoted exclusively to exposing and countering the homosexual activist agenda"? You know if fakenews.com reported that Neil Armstrong just became the first man to walk on the moon, it wouldn’t make it less true, right? The names and details and data are there in the link. Look them up if you’re skeptical. The Church has been forced to admit to it own Sin thanks to newspapers and a court system finally shamed into standing up to the Archbishops.
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Post by djorno on Feb 21, 2023 1:43:41 GMT
Biblically chasity means not having any sexual relations outside of marriage. My exchange with Clusium deals with the Catholic Church's dictum that gay people are called to chastity because there is no marriage for them. There is no marriage for them because that’s not part of God’s natural order. Men were not created to have sexual relations with other men. In the same way adults were not created to have sexual relations with children.
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Post by Isapop on Feb 21, 2023 1:52:04 GMT
My exchange with Clusium deals with the Catholic Church's dictum that gay people are called to chastity because there is no marriage for them. There is no marriage for them because that’s not part of God’s natural order. Men were not created to have sexual relations with other men. In the same way adults were not created to have sexual relations with children. To somebody who clings to the notion that gay people choose to be gay, then God's denial of marriage to them would not seem unfair. But you cling to that notion in spite of all expert authority on the topic contradicting you.
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Post by djorno on Feb 21, 2023 2:08:53 GMT
There is no marriage for them because that’s not part of God’s natural order. Men were not created to have sexual relations with other men. In the same way adults were not created to have sexual relations with children. To somebody who clings to the notion that gay people choose to be gay, then God's denial of marriage to them would not seem unfair. But you cling to that notion in spite of all expert authority on the topic contradicting you. Appeal to authority fallacy. I already showed you that being born gay has not been scientifically determined. There is no gay gene. There are also testimonies of ex-homosexuals who no longer have those feelings.
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Post by Isapop on Feb 21, 2023 2:57:12 GMT
To somebody who clings to the notion that gay people choose to be gay, then God's denial of marriage to them would not seem unfair. But you cling to that notion in spite of all expert authority on the topic contradicting you. Appeal to authority fallacy. First, it is not the Appeal to authority fallacy. That fallacy is saying a claim is true simply because an authority figure made it. What I am saying (and showed) is that the claim that being gay is not a choice has the backing of authority, in contrast to your claim that being gay IS a choice that has no backing of authority.Brush up on the rules of logic before you try to invoke them.And I already responded thusly: "No consensus among scientists about the exact reasons". But there IS consensus as far as what can be eliminated. From that same American Psychological Association, which I already quoted for you: "psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice".As well as the testimonies of those who realized it was merely burying their feelings under the need to try to conform to what they were told God wanted of them.
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 21, 2023 3:02:38 GMT
To somebody who clings to the notion that gay people choose to be gay, then God's denial of marriage to them would not seem unfair. But you cling to that notion in spite of all expert authority on the topic contradicting you. Appeal to authority fallacy. I already showed you that being born gay has not been scientifically determined. There is no gay gene. There are also testimonies of ex-homosexuals who no longer have those feelings. Sex is about pleasure as much as procreation. Sex feels good when done right and there should no apologies because it does. And rape has been used as punishment forever and the Church does not seem bother by that. In the bad old days, even males defeated in battled would often be anal raped by their conquerors before being slaughtered or enslaved. All theses rules regarding sex and procreation and rape are made up by men who say they neither have sex or procreate. One thing for sure, religionists hate to see people happy.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Feb 21, 2023 3:03:48 GMT
"The video doesn’t claim there’s an outright causation" That's because the person that made the video is at least smart enough to know they can't actually say there's direct causation, (again there's no actual scientific evidence). Instead what they do is hint at it and point people in that direction and then when called it out it they can just "Well I never said there was direct causation, I'm just reporting information!". It's essentially their way of pushing lies while maintaining plausible deniability. It's actually the same tactic Holocaust deniers like to use ("Well I'm not saying 6 million jews didn't die, but do we really have all the information!") "It merely suggests that based on data there seems to be a connection" Yeah, it's called correlation, not causation, I've already addressed this several times. Again, ice cream sales go up when crime increases, that's a correlation, not a direct causation. Well the numbers don’t lie. Data shows a disproportionately high number of gay men were sexually abused during childhood. This suggests that it had some sort of contribution to their sexual and emotional development. This is supported by a 2009 report which revealed that 74% of bisexuals had were sexually abused as kids. A 2001 article in the British journal of psychology revealed that children who are abused as children are much more likely than the average population to abuse other children in adulthood. “Among 747 males the risk of being a perpetrator was positively correlated with reported sexual abuse victim experiences … A high percentage of male subjects abused in childhood by a female relative became perpetrators. Having been a victim was a strong predictor of becoming a perpetrator, as was an index of parental loss in childhood.”- Journal of Psychology Here’s a quote from a prominent lesbian feminist and academic Camille Paglia: ”“Every single gay person I know has some sort of drama going on, back in childhood. Something was happening that we’re not allowed to ask about anymore.”She was referring to both bad relationships with parents as well as sexual abuse or other factors. "Well the numbers don’t lie." Yes but they can be manipulated to sell a narrative (which is what the video clearly did) "This is supported by a 2009 report which revealed that 74% of bisexuals had were sexually abused as kids." Can you link me an actual peer reviewed study that confirms this? Because when i googled it all I get is links to far right/christian conservative websites "A 2001 article in the British journal of psychology revealed that children who are abused as children are much more likely than the average population to abuse other children in adulthood." Yeah it literally says they're more likely to to be "abusive" not gay. Try again. "Here’s a quote from a prominent lesbian feminist and academic Camille Paglia: ”“Every single gay person I know has some sort of drama going on, back in childhood. Something was happening that we’re not allowed to ask about anymore.” She was referring to both bad relationships with parents as well as sexual abuse or other factors." Uh yeah personal anecdotes and appeals to authority (her being a lesbian doesn't make her anymore credible) aren't studies. Try again. So is it safe to assume you're not going to give me an actual credible peer reviewed study?
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