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Post by amyghost on May 21, 2024 23:19:24 GMT
As a woman who had to make that hard choice some years back... Why was it a hard choice? I was on the Pill at the time, and it was a rare instance of its having failed. Horrendous birth defects can result from a pregnancy that occurs when one is using oral contraceptives. The father wanted me to have the baby anyway, but talking to the doctor I knew the risk was entirely too great, and I couldn't cope with the notion of bringing a child into the world who was certain to be badly damaged, assuming the child even made it to term. I felt I had no right to do that. The child's father and I ended up terminating our relationship over it, and I know he suffered from the decision. But it was a choice where I felt it was really no choice. Many women face these kinds of scenarios every day, and it angers me excessively to see someone like NS6 treating the issue as some sort of 'I don't give a damn' romp when it's frequently anything but. She'd do well to pull her head out of the monitor and insert it more into the real world, but whatever; that's her problem. I said I didn't want to bore anyone with the details, and hope I haven't done so. But I think it's important for people to have some awareness of the facts behind the headlines, as well.
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Post by Admin on May 21, 2024 23:25:47 GMT
Why was it a hard choice? I was on the Pill at the time, and it was a rare instance of its having failed. Horrendous birth defects can result from a pregnancy that occurs when one is using oral contraceptives. The father wanted me to have the baby anyway, but talking to the doctor I knew the risk was entirely too great, and I couldn't cope with the notion of bringing a child into the world who was certain to be badly damaged, assuming the child even made it to term. I felt I had no right to do that. The child's father and I ended up terminating our relationship over it, and I know he suffered from the decision. But it was a choice where I felt it was really no choice. Many women face these kinds of scenarios every day, and it angers me excessively to see someone like NS6 treating the issue as some sort of 'I don't give a damn' romp when it's frequently anything but. She'd do well to pull her head out of the monitor and insert it more into the real world, but whatever; that's her problem. I said I didn't want to bore anyone with the details, and hope I haven't done so. But I think it's important for people to have some awareness of the facts behind the headlines, as well. That doesn't answer the question, and you seem to be missing Novastar's point. After all, if it's just a clump of cells and not even human in any meaningful sense, the decision to remove it should have been as easy as pulling a splinter out of your finger. In fact, the great risk you describe should have made it even easier. Do you regret it?
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Post by amyghost on May 21, 2024 23:40:42 GMT
I was on the Pill at the time, and it was a rare instance of its having failed. Horrendous birth defects can result from a pregnancy that occurs when one is using oral contraceptives. The father wanted me to have the baby anyway, but talking to the doctor I knew the risk was entirely too great, and I couldn't cope with the notion of bringing a child into the world who was certain to be badly damaged, assuming the child even made it to term. I felt I had no right to do that. The child's father and I ended up terminating our relationship over it, and I know he suffered from the decision. But it was a choice where I felt it was really no choice. Many women face these kinds of scenarios every day, and it angers me excessively to see someone like NS6 treating the issue as some sort of 'I don't give a damn' romp when it's frequently anything but. She'd do well to pull her head out of the monitor and insert it more into the real world, but whatever; that's her problem. I said I didn't want to bore anyone with the details, and hope I haven't done so. But I think it's important for people to have some awareness of the facts behind the headlines, as well. That doesn't answer the question, and you seem to be missing Novastar's point. After all, if it's just a clump of cells and not even human in any meaningful sense, the decision to remove it should have been as easy as pulling a splinter out of your finger. In fact, the great risk you describe should have made it even easier. Do you regret it? No, I don't. There was no real alternative. But the sorrow that surrounded the decision and its aftermath will be a part of my life for keeps. And to describe it in the terms you used is to ignore the fact that, clump of cells or no (and I'll be clear on the fact that I believe embryonic life is that) ignores the fact of the human, emotional investment placed in that plasma by the parties involved in its conception. I'm not sure exactly how I failed to answer the question of why it was a hard choice, but if you fail to see why, I can't make you see it; nor would I feel there was a great deal of point in attempting. Perhaps if you should ever find yourself in a similar situation, the difficulty would become more apparent.
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Post by Admin on May 22, 2024 0:05:47 GMT
That doesn't answer the question, and you seem to be missing Novastar's point. After all, if it's just a clump of cells and not even human in any meaningful sense, the decision to remove it should have been as easy as pulling a splinter out of your finger. In fact, the great risk you describe should have made it even easier. Do you regret it? No, I don't. There was no real alternative. But the sorrow that surrounded the decision and its aftermath will be a part of my life for keeps. And to describe it in the terms you used is to ignore the fact that, clump of cells or no (and I'll be clear on the fact that I believe embryonic life is that) ignores the fact of the human, emotional investment placed in that plasma by the parties involved in its conception. I'm not sure exactly how I failed to answer the question of why it was a hard choice, but if you fail to see why, I can't make you see it; nor would I feel there was a great deal of point in attempting. Perhaps if you should ever find yourself in a similar situation, the difficulty would become more apparent. I just explained why I think it should not have been a hard choice. If you're including the father as one of the "parties involved," it would seem that his "human, emotional investment" was indeed ignored...but not by me. So it's a qualia type of thing? I had to be there? You don't know if I've ever been in a similar situation, but for what it's worth, I'll tell you straight up that I fully support a woman's decision to abort, especially if isn't mine. I just don't understand why it's such a hard decision to scrape out a meaningless clump of cells, especially for someone who was actively trying to prevent getting pregnant in the first place. If you explained that and I missed it, feel free to call me a moron and move on.
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Post by novastar6 on May 22, 2024 5:07:24 GMT
Why was it a hard choice? I was on the Pill at the time, and it was a rare instance of its having failed. Horrendous birth defects can result from a pregnancy that occurs when one is using oral contraceptives. The father wanted me to have the baby anyway, but talking to the doctor I knew the risk was entirely too great, and I couldn't cope with the notion of bringing a child into the world who was certain to be badly damaged, assuming the child even made it to term. I felt I had no right to do that. The child's father and I ended up terminating our relationship over it, and I know he suffered from the decision. But it was a choice where I felt it was really no choice. Many women face these kinds of scenarios every day, and it angers me excessively to see someone like NS6 treating the issue as some sort of 'I don't give a damn' romp when it's frequently anything but. She'd do well to pull her head out of the monitor and insert it more into the real world, but whatever; that's her problem. I said I didn't want to bore anyone with the details, and hope I haven't done so. But I think it's important for people to have some awareness of the facts behind the headlines, as well.
What you just described is in no way comparable to women who don't bother to use contraceptives and then act like it's such a surprise and not their fault whatsoever they got pregnant. Maybe somehow you don't think women ever do that and are always careful, but the facts say otherwise, and it can't all be blamed on men because if women decide they don't want to have sex, most men's nights will end like Pink's song "U & Ur Hand", not in rape. Unwanted pregnancies and STDs wouldn't have skyrocketed at the rates they have through the decades if everybody took actual and proper precautions, because if they did, there would be literally no point in even bothering with condoms and birth control. That'd be like still using a seat belt even if 100% of all car crash fatalities were wearing them.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on May 22, 2024 10:30:14 GMT
Cool story, bro. My statement stands. And so does the observation that reproductive rights include the right to reproduce at a time of one's choosing.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on May 22, 2024 10:57:33 GMT
I was on the Pill at the time, and it was a rare instance of its having failed. Horrendous birth defects can result from a pregnancy that occurs when one is using oral contraceptives. The father wanted me to have the baby anyway, but talking to the doctor I knew the risk was entirely too great, and I couldn't cope with the notion of bringing a child into the world who was certain to be badly damaged, assuming the child even made it to term. I felt I had no right to do that. The child's father and I ended up terminating our relationship over it, and I know he suffered from the decision. But it was a choice where I felt it was really no choice. Many women face these kinds of scenarios every day, and it angers me excessively to see someone like NS6 treating the issue as some sort of 'I don't give a damn' romp when it's frequently anything but. She'd do well to pull her head out of the monitor and insert it more into the real world, but whatever; that's her problem. I said I didn't want to bore anyone with the details, and hope I haven't done so. But I think it's important for people to have some awareness of the facts behind the headlines, as well.
What you just described is in no way comparable to women who don't bother to use contraceptives and then act like it's such a surprise and not their fault whatsoever they got pregnant. Maybe somehow you don't think women ever do that and are always careful, but the facts say otherwise, and it can't all be blamed on men because if women decide they don't want to have sex, most men's nights will end like Pink's song "U & Ur Hand", not in rape. Unwanted pregnancies and STDs wouldn't have skyrocketed at the rates they have through the decades if everybody took actual and proper precautions, because if they did, there would be literally no point in even bothering with condoms and birth control. That'd be like still using a seat belt even if 100% of all car crash fatalities were wearing them.
You just not approving of the behaviour of some women is still not a good enough reason to justify the withdrawal of the reproductive rights of all.
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Post by novastar6 on May 22, 2024 14:23:37 GMT
What you just described is in no way comparable to women who don't bother to use contraceptives and then act like it's such a surprise and not their fault whatsoever they got pregnant. Maybe somehow you don't think women ever do that and are always careful, but the facts say otherwise, and it can't all be blamed on men because if women decide they don't want to have sex, most men's nights will end like Pink's song "U & Ur Hand", not in rape. Unwanted pregnancies and STDs wouldn't have skyrocketed at the rates they have through the decades if everybody took actual and proper precautions, because if they did, there would be literally no point in even bothering with condoms and birth control. That'd be like still using a seat belt even if 100% of all car crash fatalities were wearing them.
You just not approving of the behaviour of some women is still not a good enough reason to justify the withdrawal of the reproductive rights of all.
'just not approving', cute. Maybe 40 million people dead from HIV is no big deal to you. Try and tell us in all seriousness that number wouldn't be any lower if everybody who got infected was monogamous and used protection and got tested regularly.
Maybe incest is no big deal, one guy has sex with multiple women, they all get pregnant in a similar time frame, their kids grow up not knowing they're related because none of their moms wanted to disclose they were the other woman in an affair, and decide 'you're hot, let's have sex'. What could EVER go wrong?
And identity crisis is no big deal. People spend a lifetime wondering where they come from because their moms have NO idea who their dad is, which one study in UK found was 10% of all mothers, and in America it was job security for Maury for 20 years and now it's Paternity Court. Oh it's so RARE women don't know which guy they had sex with fathered their kid, because they're SO responsible and in any way their behavior ONLY affects themselves, not anybody else.
Any way you look at it, the bulk of society's problems all stem back to sexual irresponsibility.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on May 22, 2024 14:59:38 GMT
You just not approving of the behaviour of some women is still not a good enough reason to justify the withdrawal of the reproductive rights of all.
'just not approving', cute. Maybe 40 million people dead from HIV is no big deal to you. Try and tell us in all seriousness that number wouldn't be any lower if everybody who got infected was monogamous and used protection and got tested regularly.
Maybe incest is no big deal, one guy has sex with multiple women, they all get pregnant in a similar time frame, their kids grow up not knowing they're related because none of their moms wanted to disclose they were the other woman in an affair, and decide 'you're hot, let's have sex'. What could EVER go wrong?
And identity crisis is no big deal. People spend a lifetime wondering where they come from because their moms have NO idea who their dad is, which one study in UK found was 10% of all mothers, and in America it was job security for Maury for 20 years and now it's Paternity Court. Oh it's so RARE women don't know which guy they had sex with fathered their kid, because they're SO responsible and in any way their behavior ONLY affects themselves, not anybody else.
Any way you look at it, the bulk of society's problems all stem back to sexual irresponsibility.
Just not approving. Yeah. And still not enough to deny people their rights, which is the point, really. Has anyone ever accused you of prurience?
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Post by novastar6 on May 22, 2024 15:50:38 GMT
'just not approving', cute. Maybe 40 million people dead from HIV is no big deal to you. Try and tell us in all seriousness that number wouldn't be any lower if everybody who got infected was monogamous and used protection and got tested regularly.
Maybe incest is no big deal, one guy has sex with multiple women, they all get pregnant in a similar time frame, their kids grow up not knowing they're related because none of their moms wanted to disclose they were the other woman in an affair, and decide 'you're hot, let's have sex'. What could EVER go wrong?
And identity crisis is no big deal. People spend a lifetime wondering where they come from because their moms have NO idea who their dad is, which one study in UK found was 10% of all mothers, and in America it was job security for Maury for 20 years and now it's Paternity Court. Oh it's so RARE women don't know which guy they had sex with fathered their kid, because they're SO responsible and in any way their behavior ONLY affects themselves, not anybody else.
Any way you look at it, the bulk of society's problems all stem back to sexual irresponsibility.
Just not approving. Yeah. And still not enough to deny people their rights, which is the point, really. Has anyone ever accused you of prurience?
We should repeal drunk driving laws then. Who is the government to deny people their RIGHT to do whatever they want? As long as they're not crashing, their decision is not impacting anybody else, and drunk drivers ALWAYS brag they do it all the time and NEVER crash, proof the law has to go.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on May 22, 2024 16:16:33 GMT
Just not approving. Yeah. And still not enough to deny people their rights, which is the point, really. Has anyone ever accused you of prurience?
We should repeal drunk driving laws then. Who is the government to deny people their RIGHT to do whatever they want? As long as they're not crashing, their decision is not impacting anybody else, and drunk drivers ALWAYS brag they do it all the time and NEVER crash, proof the law has to go.
A false comparison, since the things concerning sexual conduct previously mentioned by you are, generally speaking, not illegal however much you might want them to be. Just disapproved of by you and others of your ilk, it would seem.
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Post by novastar6 on May 22, 2024 17:35:26 GMT
We should repeal drunk driving laws then. Who is the government to deny people their RIGHT to do whatever they want? As long as they're not crashing, their decision is not impacting anybody else, and drunk drivers ALWAYS brag they do it all the time and NEVER crash, proof the law has to go.
A false comparison, since the things concerning sexual conduct previously mentioned by you are, generally speaking, not illegal however much you might want them to be. Just disapproved of by you and others of your ilk, it would seem.
Hey it's their body, their booze, their car, THEIR business, nobody else's. You just hate people having rights and freedom.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on May 22, 2024 18:55:51 GMT
A false comparison, since the things concerning sexual conduct previously mentioned by you are, generally speaking, not illegal however much you might want them to be. Just disapproved of by you and others of your ilk, it would seem.
Hey it's their body, their booze, their car, THEIR business, nobody else's. You just hate people having rights and freedom.
I love the smell of irony in the morning.
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Post by Admin on May 22, 2024 20:01:09 GMT
Cool story, bro. My statement stands. And so does the observation that reproductive rights include the right to reproduce at a time of one's choosing. It doesn’t affect that, either. Abortion isn’t contraception.
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Post by Admin on May 22, 2024 20:01:33 GMT
Hey it's their body, their booze, their car, THEIR business, nobody else's. You just hate people having rights and freedom.
I love the smell of irony in the morning. Does it smell like deflection?
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Post by novastar6 on May 22, 2024 21:25:30 GMT
Hey it's their body, their booze, their car, THEIR business, nobody else's. You just hate people having rights and freedom.
I love the smell of irony in the morning.
There's nothing ironic about it. Abortion was legalized, drunk driving can be too, and you're just trying to control people's lives if you say there's ANY reason why it shouldn't be legalized.
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Post by transfuged on May 22, 2024 22:28:39 GMT
I love the smell of irony in the morning.
There's nothing ironic about it. Abortion was legalized, drunk driving can be too, and you're just trying to control people's lives if you say there's ANY reason why it shouldn't be legalized.
Oh look, when you can’t see the difference between driving, that is getting into public traffic, and having sex intercourse, you probably are very young and never made out save with yourself. It’s quite private, actually, intercourse. Not driving. (Thanks technologies cars won’t have drivers anymore, drunk or otherwise.) Now, that woman you phantasies about, she’s a phantasy. But the professionals involved in abortion are not. When you accuse them of kind of encouraging stupid behaviour by providing abortion to an improbable unsufferable tart, you are insulting to them. You insult my colleague, and you know what ? She does not even know you exist. She never will, untill the day you’ll need the abortion. That day, believe me, you’ll be glad someone Invented the aborting pill and you won’t have to get gutted like a fish. What is lost when one abort as it is actually a few cells that are taken out is an illusion. A desire. A real one, not something one can buy in a shop. It hurts. Ps : What you wrote about testing and controlling that part of people’s life, it’s what a vet would write about cats and dogs (And ”vet’ is a polite term, giving what’s a actually on my mind). Discipline, order. Ew. Ew, Ew. (Edition, just in case you are not sober enough to get the point : ”monogamous and used protection and got tested regularly.”)
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Post by FilmFlaneur on May 22, 2024 22:52:17 GMT
I love the smell of irony in the morning. Does it smell like deflection? Now you mention it...
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Post by FilmFlaneur on May 22, 2024 22:54:42 GMT
I love the smell of irony in the morning.
There's nothing ironic about it. Abortion was legalized, drunk driving can be too, and you're just trying to control people's lives if you say there's ANY reason why it shouldn't be legalized.
Please read back to where both Transfuged and I point out your faulty comparison on this score. But it is certainly ironic when you accuse others of wanting to take away freedoms and control people's lives when for a whole post of late you fulminated against those who, as far as you are concerned, irresponsibly exercise them.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on May 22, 2024 23:08:06 GMT
And so does the observation that reproductive rights include the right to reproduce at a time of one's choosing. It doesn’t affect that, either. Abortion isn’t contraception. A woman's reproduction rights are affected if she is obliged to carry to full term, just as they are if she not allowed control over her body in having access to legal abortion services. But no, abortion is not usually considered contraception. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21590556/ However they are linked in that if fertility and its other determinants (sexual exposure, lactation and pathological infertility, for example) remain constant, a rise in contraceptive use or in effectiveness of use must lead to a decline in induced abortion and vice versa.
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