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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 6, 2017 16:04:04 GMT
I'm talking about the movie too. Those things I listed are FACTS about the WONDER WOMAN movie. You can not escape those FACTS...they ARE about the movie! Geez, gotta spell things out for you. Yes, I get those facts and accept them.
Now, what about the writing, filmmaking, etc, is better?
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 6, 2017 16:08:57 GMT
You're referring to the cosmic cube powered weapons. I'm not seeing the problem, it was clearly explained, lol, "cosmic cube powered weapons", that makes it sound better. That's the problem with fanboyism or any fanatism, it makes you lose nuance, taste and common sense. If they used glowing dildos and neon anal beads for warfare, and it was "properly explained" and named (interstellar combat joysticks?), you would not see a problem either. But in the end that is exactly what trivialization and infantilization of a WW II scenario means. Nice deflection. I do not care for that ark of the convenat scene either, but it's not about doing laser battles in WWII; the cheesy special effects were to demonstrate god punishing the Nazis. But making fun of this literal deus ex machina scene and the Indy dilemma has become a running gag.
I'm not seeing how introducing the cosmic cube is a problem in any way. These aren't supposed to be accurate war films. And if they were, how come there were only a handful of soldiers in the trench WW led the charge against. Don't tell me that was an entire division of soldiers.
So what about the story/writing/characterisations in ww are any better than what's in First Avenger, because I don't see it.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jun 6, 2017 16:14:31 GMT
why, let's start with: Wonder Women does not have freaking LASER BATTLES in a WW II scenario (!!!). Jeez, I do not think you can spell out infantilization and trivilization more unambiguously than that.
So you're ashamed of comic books then. I know that is your standard deflection when it comes to justifying silliness and bad writing. But let me tell you: These are not inherent properties of any form of art or entertainment, and especially not of life action films.
So the answer is: Yes, if they are silly and badly written, I am ashamed of them (very). You should be too.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jun 6, 2017 16:16:47 GMT
So you're ashamed of comic books then. I know that is your standard deflection when it comes to justifying silliness and bad writing. But let me tell you: These are not inherent properties of any form of art or entertainment, and especially not of life action films. So yeah, you're ashamed of comics.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 6, 2017 16:17:10 GMT
So you're ashamed of comic books then. I know that is your standard deflection when it comes to justifying silliness and bad writing. But let me tell you: These are not inherent properties of any form of art or entertainment, and especially not of life action films.
So the answer is: Yes, if they are silly and badly written, I am ashamed of them (very). You should be too.
So laser battles = bad writing? I guess Star Wars is complete crap then.
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Post by brownstones on Jun 6, 2017 16:32:25 GMT
Well I like how Wonder Woman's story felt more interconnected with World War 1, the war felt "real" or at least when compared to Cap1, there it felt more like a backdrop, trivialized, inconsequential.....that's probably because of the montage scene.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jun 6, 2017 16:36:12 GMT
I know that is your standard deflection when it comes to justifying silliness and bad writing. But let me tell you: These are not inherent properties of any form of art or entertainment, and especially not of life action films.
So the answer is: Yes, if they are silly and badly written, I am ashamed of them (very). You should be too.
So laser battles = bad writing? I guess Star Wars is complete crap then. really, Stanton? Does this need to be spelled out to you?
No, not generally. But yes, laser battles in a WWII movie that completely crash the down-to-earth tone the previous acts employed, is pretty bad writing (in the sense of: childish, lowbrow, misplaced, gimmick-y, tasteless, dumb etc). One can like it, but it sure ain't good writing.
And just for the sake of clarity: No, in StarWars, a space opera playing in a fantasy galaxy far far away, laser shooting is pretty ok.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 6, 2017 16:53:57 GMT
No, not generally. But yes, laser battles in a WWII movie that completely crash the down-to-earth tone the previous acts employed, is pretty bad writing (in the sense of: childish, lowbrow, misplaced, gimmick-y, tasteless, dumb etc). One can like it, but it sure ain't good writing.
And just for the sake of clarity: No, in StarWars, a space opera playing in a fantasy galaxy far far away, laser shooting is pretty ok.
Except there was a mystic artifact in this movie with WWII in it. Does that need to be spelled out for you? It was done extremely well. In fact I really want to watch it again now.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jun 6, 2017 17:18:14 GMT
No, not generally. But yes, laser battles in a WWII movie that completely crash the down-to-earth tone the previous acts employed, is pretty bad writing (in the sense of: childish, lowbrow, misplaced, gimmick-y, tasteless, dumb etc). One can like it, but it sure ain't good writing.
And just for the sake of clarity: No, in StarWars, a space opera playing in a fantasy galaxy far far away, laser shooting is pretty ok.
Except there was a mystic artifact in this movie with WWII in it. Does that need to be spelled out for you? It was done extremely well. In fact I really want to watch it again now.
yup finally got it, mystic artefacts fully justify fancy laser battles in World War II and equal quality writing. You make a convincing argument, Stanton, best proof is that you get withdrawal symptoms from talking about it. Knock yourself out, your brain truly deserves that dose of Marvel bliss after a hard day's work online.
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 6, 2017 17:33:40 GMT
Well I like how Wonder Woman's story felt more interconnected with World War 1, the war felt "real" or at least when compared to Cap1, there it felt more like a backdrop, trivialized, inconsequential.....that's probably because of the montage scene. Have to agree here. WW made the violence and effects of war seem more real.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jun 6, 2017 18:10:56 GMT
So once again it's boiling down to the "It's not grounded enough!" argument.
A really dumb argument, at that.
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Post by brownstones on Jun 6, 2017 18:19:55 GMT
So once again it's boiling down to the "It's not grounded enough!" argument. A really dumb argument, at that. It's not that per se, both characters revolve around a World War, but how war is shown is noticeably different.
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 6, 2017 18:30:20 GMT
So once again it's boiling down to the "It's not grounded enough!" argument. A really dumb argument, at that. Different movies will have different strengths and weaknesses compared to other movies. It's not a dumb argument to point out what these are. CATFA have other areas where it shines better than WW. But WW showcased the grimness of war more than Cap. That's just a fact. Whether you prefer that or not is a matter of taste.
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Post by primeone on Jun 6, 2017 18:34:20 GMT
Um, you might want to wait until Justice League to compare the First Avengers...
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 6, 2017 18:42:23 GMT
Um, you might want to wait until Justice League to compare the First Avengers... I believe he means "Captain America: The First Avenger", as in the first Captain America movie. It's not The Avengers.
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Post by politicidal on Jun 6, 2017 18:48:59 GMT
I'd say it's on par. They're both their own thing like Iron Man and The Dark Knight were.
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Post by blockbusted on Jun 6, 2017 18:58:01 GMT
Well I like how Wonder Woman's story felt more interconnected with World War 1, the war felt "real" or at least when compared to Cap1, there it felt more like a backdrop, trivialized, inconsequential.....that's probably because of the montage scene. Have to agree here. WW made the violence and effects of war seem more real. To add to this, 'The First Avenger' felt more like a dieselpunk film set in World War II while 'Wonder Woman' felt more like a genuine World War I film by comparison. Even if those war montage scenes in 'The First Avenger' were shown in more detail, it probably wouldn't have changed the style and/or tone that much.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jun 6, 2017 22:37:49 GMT
I'd say Wonder Woman is the better film. It had more memorable side characters, and did a better job of showcasing the horrors of war.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 6, 2017 23:56:12 GMT
The First Avenger wasn't really a war movie, but a movie that took place during the time of war. It's like saying Days of Future Past was a war movie because it was in Vietnam and had a Vietnamese General. They went up against HYDRA not the Nazi. And for the people talking about laser guns, it's called secret history. Something that happened that isn't public knowledge. Wonder Woman has a woman with a magic rope and blocks mortars and machine gun fire with a shield (hmm). When did we go over that in our history books?
And about the "horrors of war". Wasn't that the point of her journey? That wasn't the point of Cap's journey.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jun 7, 2017 0:14:10 GMT
The First Avenger wasn't really a war movie, but a movie that took place during the time of war. It's like saying Days of Future Past was a war movie because it was in Vietnam and had a Vietnamese General. They went up against HYDRA not the Nazi. And for the people talking about laser guns, it's called secret history. Something that happened that isn't public knowledge. Wonder Woman has a woman with a magic rope and blocks mortars and machine gun fire with a shield (hmm). When did we go over that in our history books? And about the "horrors of war". Wasn't that the point of her journey? That wasn't the point of Cap's journey. It still was a film that took place in WWII, and the war was a vital part of the story. It may have provided an obviously fictionalized re-telling of the war, but that's exactly what 'Wonder Woman' did with the First World War. I'm not even saying it's bad that the first Captain America film didn't dwell on the implications of war that much, but the fact that WW did dwell on those implications made for a more interesting story, in my opinion. Diana went on a journey.
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