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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 19:27:31 GMT
That's what you're trying to carve out; whilst simultaneously laughably claiming to be a free thinker. |
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Post by cupcakes on Jun 11, 2017 19:27:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 19:31:03 GMT
So then it's back to 'we will which thoughts we are going to will before willing them'. |
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Post by cupcakes on Jun 11, 2017 19:31:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 19:32:27 GMT
So if cats have a reduced version of free will, then how do we know the cut-off point at which the will is no longer free. |
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Post by cupcakes on Jun 11, 2017 19:33:10 GMT
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jun 11, 2017 19:44:46 GMT
I regard Man to be in a fallen state, and Christ is the Savior. Do you believe this as well? Why are you not answering my question. I'm trying to get you to answer it for yourself. |
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Post by cupcakes on Jun 11, 2017 19:47:21 GMT
tpfkar When you remove sand grains from the edge of the ocean, with which grain is it no longer a beach? 
previously on free willy |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 19:54:12 GMT
tpfkar When you remove sand grains from the edge of the ocean, with which grain is it no longer a beach?
previously on free willyAnd at what stage is it possible to verify that an action was precipitated by "free will", rather than merely being the product of nature, preferences, biases and environment? |
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Post by cupcakes on Jun 11, 2017 20:04:36 GMT
tpfkar This incoherent condition is not a requirement of free will. As much as he's saying "we're all rhubarb pie". Free will is freedom to choose and act according to our desires informed by our other traits. Lots of people make crazy proclamations & overstatements that are corrected by others. Can neuroscience understand Donkey Kong?
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Post by PanLeo on Jun 11, 2017 20:28:45 GMT
Rabbit has to be the best example of the Dunning-Kruger effect I have ever seen in my life
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Post by PanLeo on Jun 11, 2017 20:32:13 GMT
Either a god doesn't care, this is the best of all possible worlds or people starving, being homeless etc is just a good thing but we can't understand why or god commands it so it is good.
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Post by cupcakes on Jun 11, 2017 20:32:34 GMT
tpfkar  I do love compliments from the board pedo trying to exorcise old agonies.
How about a months later one from you?
But the only situation in which sex with children is moral and should be allowed is when the child is capable of Informed consent. Now obviously a 7 year old can't do that but a 12 year old at the very least could.
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Reply 10: Re: Is Sex with Children a bad thing?
carmb09 replied 11 months, 3 weeks ago
Definitely, I would estimate around 5 or 6 is the maximum age where they wouldn't be able to, but I really don't know.
Many children after they consent to sex with an adult are brainwashed into thinking they were raped and abused but that's just not true. |
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Post by gadreel on Jun 11, 2017 20:50:02 GMT
Why are you not answering my question. I'm trying to get you to answer it for yourself. No, you are dodging. You claim I am not a Christian, you either made this based on some thing you think or know about me or you are just making some unfounded claim. Now, since you claimed it I would like to know what makes you think I am not a Christian. |
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jun 11, 2017 21:18:09 GMT
I'm trying to get you to answer it for yourself. No, you are dodging. You claim I am not a Christian, you either made this based on some thing you think or know about me or you are just making some unfounded claim. Now, since you claimed it I would like to know what makes you think I am not a Christian. Wow. Deja vu. I have been here before. I've seen nothing to indicate that you are. Now, I believe that Man is in an imperfect and fallen state and that Christ is Savior; the one who offers a way out of it. That was the purpose of His sacrifice. You've said that you don't believe Christ was the Son of God, that you hope there's a afterlife which isn't the same as believing in it, and that Christianity sets standards which are impossible for most people to meet. What, if anything, do you believe sets you aside as a Christian? What are you doing that any Buddhist, Hindu, or Wiccan couldn't do? I'm asking because I haven't really seen anything yet. |
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Post by Karl Aksel on Jun 11, 2017 21:30:28 GMT
Passing the buck? Why shouldn't you be held responsible for your own creation? Believing in a creator God and at the same time blaming people for what people do, that's passing the buck. If you have an ant tank and you remove the glass walls, who is to blame for a house full of ants? The ants, for simply doing as their nature directs, or you, who allowed them to do so when you had the power to prevent it? Because the creation has free will. Hope that helps. Not in the slightest. "Free will" is quite demonstrably an impossibility, but even if we had it, we never chose to have it. In the Terminator universe, who is to blame for Skynet? Skynet, for simply operating within the parameters of which it was created, or the designers, who were either oblivious or indifferent to the consequences? |
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Post by gadreel on Jun 11, 2017 21:37:46 GMT
No, you are dodging. You claim I am not a Christian, you either made this based on some thing you think or know about me or you are just making some unfounded claim. Now, since you claimed it I would like to know what makes you think I am not a Christian. Wow. Deja vu. I have been here before. I've seen nothing to indicate that you are. Now, I believe that Man is in an imperfect and fallen state and that Christ is Savior; the one who offers a way out of it. That was the purpose of His sacrifice. You've said that you don't believe Christ was the Son of God, that you hope there's a afterlife which isn't the same as believing in it, and that Christianity sets standards which are impossible for most people to meet. What, if anything, do you believe sets you aside as a Christian? What are you doing that any Buddhist, Hindu, or Wiccan couldn't do? I'm asking because I haven't really seen anything yet. "You've said that you don't believe Christ was the Son of God" I have said I do not believe he is God, I have mentioned that I DO think he is a son of God "that you hope there's a afterlife which isn't the same as believing in it" It's not, do I believe in an afterlife erjen, because hoping there is one is not mutually exclusive to believing in one, in fact if you believe in one, by definition you are hoping there is one. "and that Christianity sets standards which are impossible for most people to meet." Some of them are. none of this precludes me from being a Christian. Hey why don't you compile a definitive list of what one has to be to be a Christian and we can see if we are all Christian. |
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Post by Karl Aksel on Jun 11, 2017 21:38:04 GMT
tpfkar I suppose it's possible that ants have much more intentional freedom than they appear to, but it seems far fetched to think that they have the same type of higher order cognitive abilities that humans do.
Can neuroscience understand Donkey Kong?I chose the analogy for a reason. The ants do not know our will any more than we know God's will. The ants cannot access the knowledge of our will, and we cannot access the knowledge of God's will all the while God is conspicuously absent. |
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jun 11, 2017 21:53:48 GMT
Because the creation has free will. Hope that helps. Not in the slightest. "Free will" is quite demonstrably an impossibility, but even if we had it, we never chose to have it. In the Terminator universe, who is to blame for Skynet? Skynet, for simply operating within the parameters of which it was created, or the designers, who were either oblivious or indifferent to the consequences? No, it is not quite demonstrably impossible. I saw "Terminator II" on the movie screen back in the day. Skynet is a fictional artificial intelligence. Mic's analogy about the ants, although not very good, was better than this. You want to talk movies? Okay, let's talk movies. Red pill or blue pill? Which do you choose? Or will you say that whichever you choose you could not do anything but choose the one you did, because there is no free will? I'm the red pill type, although I admit that the blue pill is tempting. |
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Post by Karl Aksel on Jun 11, 2017 22:25:46 GMT
Not in the slightest. "Free will" is quite demonstrably an impossibility, but even if we had it, we never chose to have it. In the Terminator universe, who is to blame for Skynet? Skynet, for simply operating within the parameters of which it was created, or the designers, who were either oblivious or indifferent to the consequences? No, it is not quite demonstrably impossible. I saw "Terminator II" on the movie screen back in the day. Skynet is a fictional artificial intelligence. Mic's analogy about the ants, although not very good, was better than this. The ants were my analogy. Which you did not address, despite your thinking it a better analogy than Skynet, which you did address. And yes, Skynet is fictional. But so are a few other things I could mention. This discussion is based on the assumption that God is real. Now, assuming Skynet was real, who's responsible? Bingo. And there you conceded as much yourself: You're the red pill type. Did you choose to be the red pill type? All choices we make are based on our personalities, but none of us is free to choose his own personality. Our personalities are formed by biology and experiences, and you are actually the one the least in control of shaping your own personality. |
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