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Post by claudius on Oct 29, 2017 13:13:44 GMT
Well...it kept the Dark Phoenix Saga's original ending, where Jean gets stripped of her Phoenix powers, although I prefer the tragic ending (Its sanitization of DP's destruction of an uninhabited planet is interesting; it was the last-minute addition of DP destroying the Asparagus people planet that caused EiC Jim Shooter to pressure CC and JB to change the ending and have Jean die). Also, they changed the Proteus Saga by making the power-mad psycho into a confused little boy crying for his daddy. Again, I prefer the comic, although I liked how the adaptation highlighted Wolverine's canonical fear of Proteus' warping powers (a second confrontation has him runs away).
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 29, 2017 13:51:52 GMT
Well...it kept the Dark Phoenix Saga's original ending, where Jean gets stripped of her Phoenix powers, although I prefer the tragic ending (Its sanitization of DP's destruction of an uninhabited planet is interesting; it was the last-minute addition of DP destroying the Asparagus people planet that caused EiC Jim Shooter to pressure CC and JB to change the ending and have Jean die). Also, they changed the Proteus Saga by making the power-mad psycho into a confused little boy crying for his daddy. Again, I prefer the comic, although I liked how the adaptation highlighted Wolverine's canonical fear of Proteus' warping powers (a second confrontation has him runs away). I'll be straight with you...I never really liked the Dark Phoenix Saga. Jean as the Phoenix just felt like a knock-off of the Molecule Man story from Fantastic Four. The only real reason it keeps getting redone is because it's the ONLY story Jean Grey has to her name. In 50 years of publication she only had ONE story to focus on her...that's sad. |
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Oct 29, 2017 14:25:03 GMT
Nah, Gargoyles was awesome but nowhere near as good as X-Men and Spider-Man. The Fox Spider-Man and X-Men cartoons suffered from pretty bad animation (especially X-Men) and the X-Men cartoon had bad voice acting (except for maybe Wolverine and Magneto). The X-Men cartoon was also pretty lazy because most of what it did was adapt stories from the comics without putting any new twists or ideas in there, and whenever they tried to do original stories they stunk BAD. So most of their work was done for them. Gargoyles was overall better animated, better written and better acted. Nah, X-Men was better because that's what I and all of my friends watched. |
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Post by charzhino on Oct 29, 2017 14:48:25 GMT
The voice acting was bad except Logan and Magneto? Gambit, Apocalypse, Juggernaught, Rogue were all great.
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 29, 2017 15:34:01 GMT
The voice acting was bad except Logan and Magneto? Gambit, Apocalypse, Juggernaught, Rogue were all great. Gambit's accent was good...then I realized how utterly annoying it would sound in real life. Same with Rogue and the near orgasmic tone she had....which was nowehre NEAR s terrible as Jean's screeching. Apocalypse...the X-Men Evolution version was way better, and he hardly spoke a damn word. Juggernaut wasn't memorable. |
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Post by claudius on Oct 29, 2017 15:48:13 GMT
I guess I see a different view of things since I do like the DP Saga. If your point is 'power corrupts good person', I could argue that Jean at least had a background of heroism and familiarity whereas Molecule Man was portrayed as a baddie until the 1980s, when Jim Shooter gave him his 'normal guy' characterization in AVENGERS and the two SECRET WARS LS.
I do see your point about Jean. Ms. Grey had some stories but most of them came from the aftermath of Dark Phoenix- Bob Layton (and later CC) had her mourning the loss of her telepathic powers, while Louise Simonson dealt with her situation with Scott's marriage (wavering from 'I won't be the homewrecker' to 'Forget 'presumed dead' Maddie, let's bang!'), her co-existence with the psyches of Phoenix and Maddie, giving her a fear of having a predestined fate (marry Scott and have a kid) causing her to reject Rachel. The only non-Phoenix stories were several CC retroactive continuity stories occurring before UXM#100 (telling Xavier her wish to leave the X-Men and get a life outside of masks and mini-skirts, striking a friendship with Ororo with both of them dealing with control of their powers, a 'day-in-the-life' story of Jean getting ready for a date with Scott- intending to consummate their relationship- on the XMAS night of UXM#98). Maybe it would have been better if Jim Shooter decided to have Dazzler be the fifth member of X-FACTOR.
None of this obviates my claim that TAS did change major parts in several of their adaptations.
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 29, 2017 16:42:45 GMT
I guess I see a different view of things since I do like the DP Saga. If your point is 'power corrupts good person', I could argue that Jean at least had a background of heroism and familiarity whereas Molecule Man was portrayed as a baddie until the 1980s, when Jim Shooter gave him his 'normal guy' characterization in AVENGERS and the two SECRET WARS LS. I do see your point about Jean. Ms. Grey had some stories but most of them came from the aftermath of Dark Phoenix- Bob Layton (and later CC) had her mourning the loss of her telepathic powers, while Louise Simonson dealt with her situation with Scott's marriage (wavering from 'I won't be the homewrecker' to 'Forget 'presumed dead' Maddie, let's bang!'), her co-existence with the psyches of Phoenix and Maddie, giving her a fear of having a predestined fate (marry Scott and have a kid) causing her to reject Rachel. The only non-Phoenix stories were several CC retroactive continuity stories occurring before UXM#100 (telling Xavier her wish to leave the X-Men and get a life outside of masks and mini-skirts, striking a friendship with Ororo with both of them dealing with control of their powers, a 'day-in-the-life' story of Jean getting ready for a date with Scott- intending to consummate their relationship- on the XMAS night of UXM#98). Maybe it would have been better if Jim Shooter decided to have Dazzler be the fifth member of X-FACTOR. None of this obviates my claim that TAS did change major parts in several of their adaptations. It still had the same end result of the comics though, Jean was back with the X-Men. They just chose to skip all that silliness with Madelyn Pryor and other stuff...mainly because that WAS garbage storytelling. |
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Post by claudius on Oct 29, 2017 18:13:50 GMT
Technically, TAS Jean didn't come back as she wasn't really gone (in any terms of the 'gone' according to the comics' version: officially termed dead for a lengthy period of time (at least as long as the passing of 3 Christmases), independently joined a different group) in the first place.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Oct 30, 2017 5:21:32 GMT
I guess I see a different view of things since I do like the DP Saga. If your point is 'power corrupts good person', I could argue that Jean at least had a background of heroism and familiarity whereas Molecule Man was portrayed as a baddie until the 1980s, when Jim Shooter gave him his 'normal guy' characterization in AVENGERS and the two SECRET WARS LS. I do see your point about Jean. Ms. Grey had some stories but most of them came from the aftermath of Dark Phoenix- Bob Layton (and later CC) had her mourning the loss of her telepathic powers, while Louise Simonson dealt with her situation with Scott's marriage (wavering from 'I won't be the homewrecker' to 'Forget 'presumed dead' Maddie, let's bang!'), her co-existence with the psyches of Phoenix and Maddie, giving her a fear of having a predestined fate (marry Scott and have a kid) causing her to reject Rachel. The only non-Phoenix stories were several CC retroactive continuity stories occurring before UXM#100 (telling Xavier her wish to leave the X-Men and get a life outside of masks and mini-skirts, striking a friendship with Ororo with both of them dealing with control of their powers, a 'day-in-the-life' story of Jean getting ready for a date with Scott- intending to consummate their relationship- on the XMAS night of UXM#98). Maybe it would have been better if Jim Shooter decided to have Dazzler be the fifth member of X-FACTOR. None of this obviates my claim that TAS did change major parts in several of their adaptations. It still had the same end result of the comics though, Jean was back with the X-Men. They just chose to skip all that silliness with Madelyn Pryor and other stuff...mainly because that WAS garbage storytelling. Nah, it was classic and beloved. Look at this:  That's AWESOME. Innit? |
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 30, 2017 12:19:23 GMT
Beh, silly.
Of course what was even sillier was when she turned Havok into her "Goblin Prince" and had him dress like a male stripper.
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Post by claudius on Oct 30, 2017 15:52:44 GMT
More like tore parts off of his Havok costume to create that design.
Ahh, Silvestri and his sexualized portraits.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2017 16:31:39 GMT
The Fox Spider-Man and X-Men cartoons suffered from pretty bad animation (especially X-Men) and the X-Men cartoon had bad voice acting (except for maybe Wolverine and Magneto). The X-Men cartoon was also pretty lazy because most of what it did was adapt stories from the comics without putting any new twists or ideas in there, and whenever they tried to do original stories they stunk BAD. So most of their work was done for them. Gargoyles was overall better animated, better written and better acted. Nah, X-Men was better because that's what I and all of my friends watched. Gargoyles had John Rhys-Davies and pretty much the entire cast of Star Trek: Next Generation. Your argument in invalid. |
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Oct 30, 2017 23:32:15 GMT
Nah, X-Men was better because that's what I and all of my friends watched. Gargoyles had John Rhys-Davies and pretty much the entire cast of Star Trek: Next Generation. Your argument in invalid. But... but everyone I knew was an X-Men mark. It HAS to be better than this other show I've never really watched as a child or an adult. I don't see what you're missing about my iron-clad argument, or why this thread is even continuing... |
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 31, 2017 0:57:34 GMT
Gargoyles had John Rhys-Davies and pretty much the entire cast of Star Trek: Next Generation. Your argument in invalid. But... but everyone I knew was an X-Men mark. It HAS to be better than this other show I've never really watched as a child or an adult. I don't see what you're missing about my iron-clad argument, or why this thread is even continuing... I'd say Batman TAS was better. Hell, Spider-man was better.* Even at its best, the X-men animation was kinda bad. When they cut costs and went with that other animation house, you can tell they were giving up and riding the X-men name. *Oh yeah, Spider-man and X-men was a shared universe. They even had the same designs and voice actors when the X-men appeared on Spider-man. |
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Post by summers8 on Oct 31, 2017 6:46:40 GMT
But... but everyone I knew was an X-Men mark. It HAS to be better than this other show I've never really watched as a child or an adult. I don't see what you're missing about my iron-clad argument, or why this thread is even continuing... I'd say Batman TAS was better. Hell, Spider-man was better.* Even at its best, the X-men animation was kinda bad. When they cut costs and went with that other animation house, you can tell they were giving up and riding the X-men name. *Oh yeah, Spider-man and X-men was a shared universe. They even had the same designs and voice actors when the X-men appeared on Spider-man. From an artistic stand point the only thing better arguably was Batman TAS but that is up for debate because X-Men TAS had stronger themes than Batman TAS. I will say Batman TAS had stronger stand alone episodes but X-Men TAS had stronger parters (Dark Phoenix Saga, One Man's Worth)but these were big two. the bigger sadness here is DC seems to have surpassed Batman TAS because their animation got better and better by the 2000s, Marvel still showed big promise (spectacular spiderman and xmen evolution) after X-Men TAS but once Disney bought marvel, marvel animation became awful and has stayed that away. Makes me even happy, there are no more X-Men cartoons. gotta love MCU fans take on x-men. Legion is straightforward and not that good. XMen TAS is kind of bad X2 is a rip off of T2. Logan will be forgotten And yet, all these films and tv shows of X-Men still mops the floor with anything MCU has ever made. maybe this is why people put xmen on top because it is down to the art and creative input, something that other marvel properties are lacking.
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Post by summers8 on Oct 31, 2017 6:50:07 GMT
Gargoyles had John Rhys-Davies and pretty much the entire cast of Star Trek: Next Generation. Your argument in invalid. But... but everyone I knew was an X-Men mark. It HAS to be better than this other show I've never really watched as a child or an adult. I don't see what you're missing about my iron-clad argument, or why this thread is even continuing... Marvel sure loves to celebrate X-Men TAS , I just wished they had moved on and gotten better in the 2000s. I also wish marvel will release the license of xmen cartoons to WB. I want Xmen animated movies and new cartoons but I don't want disney making them, it will be too awful. |
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Post by summers8 on Oct 31, 2017 6:58:04 GMT
Well...it kept the Dark Phoenix Saga's original ending, where Jean gets stripped of her Phoenix powers, although I prefer the tragic ending (Its sanitization of DP's destruction of an uninhabited planet is interesting; it was the last-minute addition of DP destroying the Asparagus people planet that caused EiC Jim Shooter to pressure CC and JB to change the ending and have Jean die). Also, they changed the Proteus Saga by making the power-mad psycho into a confused little boy crying for his daddy. Again, I prefer the comic, although I liked how the adaptation highlighted Wolverine's canonical fear of Proteus' warping powers (a second confrontation has him runs away). This made it into a ''kids'' show. that will never happen in any Marvel Disney show today, heck even movies. what made X-Men TAS the legendary show it is today was that it was accessible to all ages. when I used to watch it as a kid in the living room, my dad will also be into it. Let's just call a spade a spade. marvel cartoons suffered greatly once mcu- disney took over. DC stomps now. |
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Post by summers8 on Oct 31, 2017 7:00:20 GMT
The voice acting was bad except Logan and Magneto? Gambit, Apocalypse, Juggernaught, Rogue were all great. I will replace Magneto with Gambit on voice work. |
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Post by summers8 on Oct 31, 2017 7:03:01 GMT
The cartoons once Disney took over improved. Nah, they were better in the 90s. Did formersamhmd say they improved...for real? LOL. |
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Post by charzhino on Oct 31, 2017 8:44:21 GMT
This made it into a ''kids'' show. that will never happen in any Marvel Disney show today, heck even movies. what made X-Men TAS the legendary show it is today was that it was accessible to all ages. when I used to watch it as a kid in the living room, my dad will also be into it. Also, the language written and used for Apocalypse was beyond the comprehension for a Saturday morning kids TV shows. For an apparent one-note villain, they gave him some literary genius stuff that, only as a adult I could understand what he was saying because as a kid, most of his deeper lines flew right over my head. No kid would understand when Apocalypse ponders his own existence and contemplates destiny with fate by referencing Sisyphus from Greek mythology. |
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