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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 12, 2017 11:28:31 GMT
Both BvS and Civil War have weak and forced screenwriting to have their heros conflict. The fact that Civil War was praised for it and BvS mocked is a clear bias. And I agree with Tristan, having heros clobber each other because of mummy issues is lame. It only works between villains and heros like in Man of Steel with Zod or Magneto and Sebastian Shaw in First Class. Can you really not see why Civil War is considered a well made film and BVS isn't?
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Post by charzhino on Jun 12, 2017 11:55:26 GMT
Can you really not see why Civil War is considered a well made film and BVS isn't? I'm only talking about the "reveals" in both films which were both silly. But Civil War is the better movie overall.
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Stuart "2-D" Pot
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Post by Stuart "2-D" Pot on Jun 12, 2017 12:06:11 GMT
They might as well have gotten a different director. Because the grim tone works with Batman, but not Superman. It's the reason why Man of Steel didn't particularly work.
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Post by miike80 on Jun 12, 2017 13:45:26 GMT
Both BvS and Civil War have weak and forced screenwriting to have their heros conflict. The fact that Civil War was praised for it and BvS mocked is a clear bias. And I agree with Tristan, having heros clobber each other because of mummy issues is lame. It only works between villains and heros like in Man of Steel with Zod or Magneto and Sebastian Shaw in First Class. Can you really not see why Civil War is considered a well made film and BVS isn't? Can you? because you haven't seen BVS. I'm not saying that CW is not better(because it is) But, i, for one can not mock another movie without seeing it
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 12, 2017 14:04:15 GMT
I'm only talking about the "reveals" in both films which were both silly. But Civil War is the better movie overall. I didn't find anything silly or forced about Civil War. There was a clear political divide.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 12, 2017 14:05:54 GMT
Can you? because you haven't seen BVS. I'm not saying that CW is not better(because it is) But, i, for one can not mock another movie without seeing it I've seen plenty of clips of BVS, and I've read plenty about it. Lex makes a 3-pointer really sums it up.
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Post by miike80 on Jun 12, 2017 14:11:14 GMT
i'm just saying the opinion is only relevant once you see the movie. I'm not coming here to say Spiderman: Homecoming is trash just because i haven't liked the trailers and i'm not really interested in it.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 12, 2017 14:13:07 GMT
i'm just saying the opinion is only relevant once you see the movie. I'm not coming here to say Spiderman: Homecoming is trash just because i haven't liked the trailers and i'm not really interested in it. I've seen much more than trailers. And I'll just point out that whether or not I've seen the film isn't the point here. BVS isn't any good.
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Post by miike80 on Jun 12, 2017 14:16:18 GMT
i'm not here to make you watch BVS( in enjoy it, don't care what others think), but those could be misleading. like the trailers for Thor and Spiderman could be, and i might end up enjoying them once they hit home-cinema
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 16:09:59 GMT
And there the pig squeals about things he doesn't understand again. For someone who accuses others of "low effort thinking", you indulge in quite a bit of it, yourself. That final fight in Civil War had nothing to do with mommy issues. A guy just had the fact his parents were murdered to him in the worst way imaginable AND found out one of his friends knew about it, but kept quiet. Anyone in Tony's position would have reacted the exact same way. But whatever, just keep squealing, little pig.
^^^^ comedy gold projection, coming from the infamous meltdown candidate who regularly threatens other posters online (!) to beat them up when he runs out of insults and fallacies.
No raptor, responsible leaders with such character development and in such a tricky life-and-death situation would not start clobbering like 5 year olds. But then it would be completely pointless to explain that to you; ...like teaching a pig to fly, like casting pearls before the swine, eh?
If you did not exist, we'd have to invent you raptor.
Do you have any idea how little your insults matter? Does the butcher care when the pig squeals? No. In fact, some relish it. So thank you. The fact you refer to Tony Stark as a "responsible leader" just shows you have no understanding of the character and you have not been paying any attention to the MCU films at all while watching them. So thank you again for displaying your ignorance. For someone who claims he's a seventeen year old working at a McDonald's, you are stunningly bad at showing yourself to be anything else. Just keep it up with that low effort thinking.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 16:11:03 GMT
Both BvS and Civil War have weak and forced screenwriting to have their heros conflict. The fact that Civil War was praised for it and BvS mocked is a clear bias. And I agree with Tristan, having heros clobber each other because of mummy issues is lame. It only works between villains and heros like in Man of Steel with Zod or Magneto and Sebastian Shaw in First Class. You're an idiot. Just keep displaying your ignorance to the world. The final fight in Civil War had nothing to do with mommy issues. It had everything to do with an emotionally fragile man being taken to the breaking point after spending an entire movie having bad things happen to him.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 16:16:00 GMT
...Good luck ever making the formation of The Justice League believable with a murderous Batman who jumped past the point of redemption. What moral dilemma? There is no morality in murdering Superman. If he went through with it, Batman would have permanently put himself in a place of utter immorality. Hell, I'm barely able to buy this Batman as a good guy as things are. If he'd actually done it, I'd be even more done with the Batfleck than I already am. I disagree. I like the way they went with The Dark Knight in the DCEU. They should have taken it a step further. Make Batman a guy who kills villains is fine with me. Let him deal with the fact that he realizes he has made a mistake. I would find that very interesting. All pure good guys arent interesting. The places they've taken Batman in the DCEU are the wrong direction. They most certainly should not have taken it a step further. For one thing, the death of Superman is something you earn. Snyder hasn't earned it. When Superman comes back, it kill any sense of suspense the series might have had, because now we know Superman really can "just walk it off" and we will never have any reason to ever worry for the characters again. No, killing Superman is something that would have had to come later when Cavil's contract was up. Now that we know Supes can just resurrect, they have no good way to write him permanently when Cavil decides he's done with the role. "All pure good guy aren't interesting." And yet Captain America is kicking the asses of all these dark and dour superheroes at the box office.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 16:17:21 GMT
I disagree. I like the way they went with The Dark Knight in the DCEU. They should have taken it a step further. Make Batman a guy who kills villains is fine with me. Let him deal with the fact that he realizes he has made a mistake. I would find that very interesting. All pure good guys arent interesting. The places they've taken Batman in the DCEU are the wrong direction. They most certainly should not have taken it a step further. For one thing, the death of Superman is something you earn. Snyder hasn't earned it. When Superman comes back, it kill any sense of suspense the series might have had, because now we know Superman really can "just walk it off" and we will never have any reason to ever worry for the characters again. No, killing Superman is something that would have had to come later when Cavil's contract was up. Now that we know Supes can just resurrect, they have no good way to write him permanently when Cavil decides he's done with the role. "All pure good guy aren't interesting." And yet Captain America is kicking the asses of all these dark and dour superheroes at the box office. Cap isnt pure good. We just havent seen his dark side yet. 😉😉😉
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 16:18:31 GMT
The places they've taken Batman in the DCEU are the wrong direction. They most certainly should not have taken it a step further. For one thing, the death of Superman is something you earn. Snyder hasn't earned it. When Superman comes back, it kill any sense of suspense the series might have had, because now we know Superman really can "just walk it off" and we will never have any reason to ever worry for the characters again. No, killing Superman is something that would have had to come later when Cavil's contract was up. Now that we know Supes can just resurrect, they have no good way to write him permanently when Cavil decides he's done with the role. "All pure good guy aren't interesting." And yet Captain America is kicking the asses of all these dark and dour superheroes at the box office. Cap isnt pure good. We just havent seen his dark side yet. 😉😉😉 Actually, we have.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jun 12, 2017 16:44:24 GMT
1. Change the freaking actor for Lex. Do it like the animated version of Lex, smart and powerful. Intimidating. 2. Get rid of the Apokalypse scene. It's cool and all but does not make sense and just makes the movie longer. For that matter, get rid of the Flash scene and cut the Wayne parents' death flashbacks in half. We don't need that much flashback. 3. Get a better reason for Batman and Superman to fight. A simple blackmail is so unoriginal and is just lazy. You can do way better than that. 4. Get rid of the stupid Martha scene. For such an epic fight as Batman vs. Superman you need a way better reason for them to stop fighting than just having a similar mom's name. 5. Get either a better final villain for the trio to fight or at least get an unknown one if you just want a grand but shallow finale. You use someone as well-known as Doomsday you better make sure you do him properly. So either do it properly or just get a random unknown. Heck I would have been fine with no big bad in the end, just make Lex find some red kyrptonite and the final battle is Batman and Wonder Woman trying to calm down an enraged Superman. 6. For the love of god, allow Superman to smile and be happy. He's freakin Superman, not Edward Cullen. Leave the glowering to Batman. 7. Either do Lois Lane properly or just get rid of her. In this movie she feels so tacked on, like they're forcing her to be important even though nothing she does is really that important. 8. I could go on... but I realized after reading all these that there's pretty much nothing left of the movie. Might as well just change the entire movie. How about this: Lex as his usual plotting sociopath without the autism and have him be the only one who sees the trouble brewing. Superman and Batman are at odds (they didn't need any help from Lex, they already distrusted each other) and some kind of emergency protocol or contingency plan by Zod sets up Doomsday's creation. Lex finds out and he, Lex Luthor must push the heroes toward the villain he knows only they can destroy together. The personal struggle is Luthor's, not theirs. On the one hand, he sees both heroes as obstacles to his ultimate goal and would be happy if they simply killed each other. On the other hand, there's no way to profit and gain from a scorched Earth. Lex would have to swallow his pride and appreciate the irony of using these two men (and WW, you wouldn't have to change much to include her in basically the same way) to save the world for his own ends. The manipulation ends up with the world being saved, as only Lex knows the truth of how they came together. He essentially created the JL out of necessity by using these icons of justice as pawns in a larger criminal scheme and now he doesn't know whether to smile or throw up in his mouth.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 17:53:24 GMT
1. Change the freaking actor for Lex. Do it like the animated version of Lex, smart and powerful. Intimidating. 2. Get rid of the Apokalypse scene. It's cool and all but does not make sense and just makes the movie longer. For that matter, get rid of the Flash scene and cut the Wayne parents' death flashbacks in half. We don't need that much flashback. 3. Get a better reason for Batman and Superman to fight. A simple blackmail is so unoriginal and is just lazy. You can do way better than that. 4. Get rid of the stupid Martha scene. For such an epic fight as Batman vs. Superman you need a way better reason for them to stop fighting than just having a similar mom's name. 5. Get either a better final villain for the trio to fight or at least get an unknown one if you just want a grand but shallow finale. You use someone as well-known as Doomsday you better make sure you do him properly. So either do it properly or just get a random unknown. Heck I would have been fine with no big bad in the end, just make Lex find some red kyrptonite and the final battle is Batman and Wonder Woman trying to calm down an enraged Superman. 6. For the love of god, allow Superman to smile and be happy. He's freakin Superman, not Edward Cullen. Leave the glowering to Batman. 7. Either do Lois Lane properly or just get rid of her. In this movie she feels so tacked on, like they're forcing her to be important even though nothing she does is really that important. 8. I could go on... but I realized after reading all these that there's pretty much nothing left of the movie. Might as well just change the entire movie. How about this: Lex as his usual plotting sociopath without the autism and have him be the only one who sees the trouble brewing. Superman and Batman are at odds (they didn't need any help from Lex, they already distrusted each other) and some kind of emergency protocol or contingency plan by Zod sets up Doomsday's creation. Lex finds out and he, Lex Luthor must push the heroes toward the villain he knows only they can destroy together. The personal struggle is Luthor's, not theirs. On the one hand, he sees both heroes as obstacles to his ultimate goal and would be happy if they simply killed each other. On the other hand, there's no way to profit and gain from a scorched Earth. Lex would have to swallow his pride and appreciate the irony of using these two men (and WW, you wouldn't have to change much to include her in basically the same way) to save the world for his own ends. The manipulation ends up with the world being saved, as only Lex knows the truth of how they came together. He essentially created the JL out of necessity by using these icons of justice as pawns in a larger criminal scheme and now he doesn't know whether to smile or throw up in his mouth. That fixes the Lex Luthor problem, definitely. Now we still need a better reason to have Batman so distrustful of Supes that doesn't involve quoting Dick Cheney.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jun 12, 2017 18:09:51 GMT
How about this: Lex as his usual plotting sociopath without the autism and have him be the only one who sees the trouble brewing. Superman and Batman are at odds (they didn't need any help from Lex, they already distrusted each other) and some kind of emergency protocol or contingency plan by Zod sets up Doomsday's creation. Lex finds out and he, Lex Luthor must push the heroes toward the villain he knows only they can destroy together. The personal struggle is Luthor's, not theirs. On the one hand, he sees both heroes as obstacles to his ultimate goal and would be happy if they simply killed each other. On the other hand, there's no way to profit and gain from a scorched Earth. Lex would have to swallow his pride and appreciate the irony of using these two men (and WW, you wouldn't have to change much to include her in basically the same way) to save the world for his own ends. The manipulation ends up with the world being saved, as only Lex knows the truth of how they came together. He essentially created the JL out of necessity by using these icons of justice as pawns in a larger criminal scheme and now he doesn't know whether to smile or throw up in his mouth. That fixes the Lex Luthor problem, definitely. Now we still need a better reason to have Batman so distrustful of Supes that doesn't involve quoting Dick Cheney. Cheney Batman is fun though. I can enjoy a movie with that kind of insanity. I can't take the sniveling reject from an Adam Sandler movie version of Lex.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 18:13:35 GMT
That fixes the Lex Luthor problem, definitely. Now we still need a better reason to have Batman so distrustful of Supes that doesn't involve quoting Dick Cheney. Cheney Batman is fun though. I can enjoy a movie with that kind of insanity. I can't take the sniveling reject from an Adam Sandler movie version of Lex. Batman is also supposed to be the world's greatest detective. Even a decent investigator could figure out Superman is not the one at fault for Zod's actions and that any additional damage done was due to the Man of Steel's own inexperience. Bare minimum, we should have had the Wonder Woman movie and the Aquaman movie in 2014-15. That way Batman would at least have the excuse of seeing a disastrous pattern begin to emerge from metahumans fighting other metahumans.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jun 12, 2017 18:33:24 GMT
Cheney Batman is fun though. I can enjoy a movie with that kind of insanity. I can't take the sniveling reject from an Adam Sandler movie version of Lex. Batman is also supposed to be the world's greatest detective. Even a decent investigator could figure out Superman is not the one at fault for Zod's actions and that any additional damage done was due to the Man of Steel's own inexperience. Bare minimum, we should have had the Wonder Woman movie and the Aquaman movie in 2014-15. That way Batman would at least have the excuse of seeing a disastrous pattern begin to emerge from metahumans fighting other metahumans. See my earlier post in this thread to get an idea where I'm coming from. To me, all of Batman's behavior in this flick (until the 'Martha' nonsense suddenly makes him capable of normal human interaction) is explained by Bruce's particular psychosis. It was never about placing blame. It was about Bruce's ability to control the world around him. Bruce could not control a world with Superman in it, so he had to go. It's not the Batman from the comics and I understand why people hated this portrayal, but I found it fascinating. Bruce Wayne is a villain in this story until the goofy twist involving Martha, and I loved every minute of his screen time up until that turn. (And I didn't hate him after the turn either, it simply was not the same character anymore.)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 18:39:40 GMT
Batman is also supposed to be the world's greatest detective. Even a decent investigator could figure out Superman is not the one at fault for Zod's actions and that any additional damage done was due to the Man of Steel's own inexperience. Bare minimum, we should have had the Wonder Woman movie and the Aquaman movie in 2014-15. That way Batman would at least have the excuse of seeing a disastrous pattern begin to emerge from metahumans fighting other metahumans. See my earlier post in this thread to get an idea where I'm coming from. To me, all of Batman's behavior in this flick (until the 'Martha' nonsense suddenly makes him capable of normal human interaction) is explained by Bruce's particular psychosis. It was never about placing blame. It was about Bruce's ability to control the world around him. Bruce could not control a world with Superman in it, so he had to go. It's not the Batman from the comics and I understand why people hated this portrayal, but I found it fascinating. Bruce Wayne is a villain in this story until the goofy twist involving Martha, and I loved every minute of his screen time up until that turn. (And I didn't hate him after the turn either, it simply was not the same character anymore.) Yeah, here's the thing. That makes Batman an irredeemably horrible person and the film would have been even more poorly received for it. I can barely buy that this is the same man who's going to found the Justice League as is. Make him that way and I'm just completely done with him, and so would many, many other people.
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