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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Jul 4, 2017 5:04:00 GMT
So they're better because they're made by Gods? I guess that's your opinion Yep, weapons made by gods for use by gods and demi-gods are much better than weapons made by humans for use by humans.
So your opinion is that a helmet made by a human would be better than the Helmet of Hades? I don't see how ANY helmet made by a human could be better than the Helmet of Hades. If have to go to battle, I would choose the Helmet of Hades over ANY helmet made by a human (even a helmet made out of vibranium).
And your opinion is that a lasso made by a human would be better than the Lasso of Truth?
And your opinion is that a shield made by a human for use by a human would be better than a shield made by a god that can make thunder roll and make mortals cower in fear?
Wow, okay, you really going to milk this whole thing like a dumbass? As usual, you twist my words and put words into my mouth. I don't care about the helmet. I don't care about the lasso. I never mentioned either of those. I never said human making them would be better, so please don't put words into my mouth like a dumbass. I was just talking about only the shield because that was the comparison you were making. And again you think the shield is better because some God created it, fair enough. But personally, I find stuff like that to be a dime-and-a-dozen. And again, I think its more interesting that a human can create a shield without the help of Gods. But there's also no real relevance of Wonder Woman's shield or sword as they only recently been portrayed in the Wonder Woman comics and became a bigger part of her character. There's a history behind Cap's shield tho. Sure there's probably a history behind Diana's shield, but the film never touched upon anything about it. For all an audience member would realize, it's just a regular Amazon shield. It's all in the Greek mythology which you can't expect every moviegoer to know about.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 4, 2017 5:16:51 GMT
you think the shield is better because some God created it, fair enough. But personally, I find stuff like that to be a dime-and-a-dozen.
The Shield of Athena isn't a dime-a-dozen. There's only 1 Shield of Athena and it can't be duplicated by any human for any amount of money.
Cap's shield is a dime-a-dozen. You can vibranium is scarce, but there's probably more than enough vibranium available to create more shields.
I think its more interesting that a human can create a shield without the help of Gods. Humans have created plenty of shields since the beginning of history. Cap's shield is just another shield created by a human. Does it make thunder roll and mortals cower in fear like the Shield of Athena does? For all an audience member would realize, it's just a regular Amazon shield. You weren't paying attention when you watched the movie. It wasn't a regular Amazon shield. Diana got that shield in the tower, the tower which Hippolyta told 8-year-old Diana that they kept all their precious gifts from the gods. So that shield was in the tower because it was a gift from the gods and not a regular Amazon shield.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jul 4, 2017 5:26:54 GMT
But.....we see them....they're like....right there in the trailer, and Diana must return back to Themyscira at some point, plus her daddy is Zeus. I know. I already acknowledged them and they're just in a flashback so far right? Even if they make some sort of final battle, as far as WW goes they're just a low key part of the first act. The rest of the film is just some war scenes and a somewhat underwhelming fight with Ares.
By comparison I just listed half a dozen relevant items that showed up in FA so I think it holds as more relevant to the MCU than WW will to the DCU.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Jul 4, 2017 5:36:00 GMT
you think the shield is better because some God created it, fair enough. But personally, I find stuff like that to be a dime-and-a-dozen.
The Shield of Athena isn't a dime-a-dozen. There's only 1 Shield of Athena and it can't be duplicated by any human for any amount of money.
Cap's shield is a dime-a-dozen. You can vibranium is scarce, but there's probably more than enough vibranium available to create more shields.
I think its more interesting that a human can create a shield without the help of Gods. Humans have created plenty of shields since the beginning of history. Cap's shield is just another shield created by a human. Does it make thunder roll and mortals cower in fear like the Shield of Athena does? For all an audience member would realize, it's just a regular Amazon shield. You weren't paying attention when you watched the movie. It wasn't a regular Amazon shield. Diana got that shield in the tower, the tower which Hippolyta told 8-year-old Diana that they kept all their precious gifts from the gods. So that shield was in the tower because it was a gift from the gods and not a regular Amazon shield. You missed the point I was making about it being a dime-and-a-dozen. I wasn't talking about what was in the film. I was just talking about in general of films today of some mythical/divine weapon/armor/shield etc. Just with films like the Clash of the Titans and Greek mythology, it's cliche. I used to read into Greek mythos before, but I just find it meh now and not so much that interesting. Said can be said with Norse mythology as well. And yeah, I still think Cap's shields more interesting and cool because it can even deflect the Mjolnir and probably any other Godly divine weapon.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 4, 2017 6:26:46 GMT
I was just talking about in general of films today of some mythical/divine weapon/armor/shield etc. Just with films like the Clash of the Titans and Greek mythology, it's cliche. So I take it that you didn't like Raiders of the Lost Ark since they were searching for the Ark of the Covenant, which has mythical powers (an Army that carries the Ark is invincible). And I take it that you didn't like Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade since they were searching for the Holy Grail, which has mythical healing powers. I still think Cap's shields more interesting and cool because it can even deflect the Mjolnir and probably any other Godly divine weapon. And yet you don't think Cap's shield is hard enough to kill a normal human like Strucker? By the way, Mjolnir isn't a godly divine weapon. MCU treats the Asgardians not as gods but as advanced aliens from another world. In MCU, Asgardians are no more gods than Kryptonians in DCEU.
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chatterer
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Post by chatterer on Jul 4, 2017 7:25:35 GMT
But then WW doesn't have elements like Hydra, the Tesseract, Shield, Peggy Carter, Vibranium etc etc. It just has what I mentioned, so no, it's not the same. But it did have elements like Themiscira, the Greek Gods, Steve Trevor, and the photo. The Dr Poison gas that strengthened Ludendorff. That's a definite tie in for Bane if they ever choose to bring him back.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Jul 4, 2017 12:43:02 GMT
I was just talking about in general of films today of some mythical/divine weapon/armor/shield etc. Just with films like the Clash of the Titans and Greek mythology, it's cliche. So I take it that you didn't like Raiders of the Lost Ark since they were searching for the Ark of the Covenant, which has mythical powers (an Army that carries the Ark is invincible). And I take it that you didn't like Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade since they were searching for the Holy Grail, which has mythical healing powers. I still think Cap's shields more interesting and cool because it can even deflect the Mjolnir and probably any other Godly divine weapon. And yet you don't think Cap's shield is hard enough to kill a normal human like Strucker? By the way, Mjolnir isn't a godly divine weapon. MCU treats the Asgardians not as gods but as advanced aliens from another world. In MCU, Asgardians are no more gods than Kryptonians in DCEU. As usual, you continue to put words into my mouth. You can't do that. Just because I said I'm not a fan of mythology like that, doesn't mean I hate it. And I don't hate the Indiana Jones films because they were among the first to do it have some divine macguffin and did it in an interesting way. I'm not going to get into another debate with this whole bullshit. You want to keep telling yourself that Cap killed Strucker, be my guess if that makes you feel better about yourself It's your opinion but doesn't make it right and as you can see, no one agrees with you either. Beings from another dimension is hardly any different than Gods. If you're really going to get a stick up your ass about the whole thing, then that's your problem.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 4, 2017 18:33:51 GMT
As usual, you continue to put words into my mouth. You were the 1 who was complaining about mythical objects in movies. "it's cliché" is what you said. So now you don't think that healing a bullet wound by pouring water from the Holy Grail over it is cliché, but you think that a helmet that makes the wearer invisible is cliché and a lasso that compels someone to tell the truth is cliché and the Shield of Athena is cliché. Sounds like hypocrisy. I'm not going to get into another debate with this whole bullshit. You want to keep telling yourself that Cap killed Strucker, be my guess if that makes you feel better about yourself It's your opinion but doesn't make it right and as you can see, no one agrees with you either. It's not bullshit and every forensic scientist would agree with me. A normal human being who is struck with an object made of the hardest metal on Earth with such a violent impact that it sends him crashing into a wall behind him and then falls to the ground and doesn't move is dead. And your own video confirmed that. At no point after Strucker bounced off the wall and fell to the ground do we ever see Strucker get up or move again. Beings from another dimension is hardly any different than Gods.
So Mr. Mxyzptlk is a god too?
MCU treats Asgardians as just advanced aliens from another world. Asgardians in MCU are no more gods than Kryptonians or Martians or Thanagarians in DCEU.
If you don't like that, don't complain to me about. Go complain to MCU since they're the ones who wrote the story to say that Asgardians are just advanced aliens from another world and not gods. You claim that I don't accept what the MCU writers wrote, but you're not accepting the MCU writers saying that the Asgardians are just advanced aliens from another world and not gods.
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zoilus
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Post by zoilus on Jul 4, 2017 18:35:06 GMT
And yet you don't think Cap's shield is hard enough to kill a normal human like Strucker? By the way, Mjolnir isn't a godly divine weapon. MCU treats the Asgardians not as gods but as advanced aliens from another world. In MCU, Asgardians are no more gods than Kryptonians in DCEU. Mjolnir is not godly/divine? Then why couldn't Hulk budge it and Cap could? Is Cap stronger than Hulk? Seen this?
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zoilus
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Post by zoilus on Jul 4, 2017 18:41:37 GMT
It's not bullshit and every forensic scientist would agree with me. A normal human being who is struck with an object made of the hardest metal on Earth with such a violent impact that it sends him crashing into a wall behind him and then falls to the ground and doesn't move is dead. And your own video confirmed that. At no point after Strucker bounced off the wall and fell to the ground do we ever see Strucker get up or move again. Except that Strucker can be heard groaning at the end of the video in question. Strucker was on the ground after Cap hit him. Later, he's shown dead in a bed, and Ultron wrote 'Peace' on the wall with his blood. Do you believe that Ultron found Strucker dead on the ground ('dead' from blunt force trauma, no blood), moved him to a bed, cut him, and used his blood to write on the wall? Why write Peace on the wall with his blood if Cap already killed him?
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Jul 4, 2017 20:43:49 GMT
As usual, you continue to put words into my mouth. You were the 1 who was complaining about mythical objects in movies. "it's cliché" is what you said. So now you don't think that healing a bullet wound by pouring water from the Holy Grail over it is cliché, but you think that a helmet that makes the wearer invisible is cliché and a lasso that compels someone to tell the truth is cliché and the Shield of Athena is cliché. Sounds like hypocrisy. I'm not going to get into another debate with this whole bullshit. You want to keep telling yourself that Cap killed Strucker, be my guess if that makes you feel better about yourself It's your opinion but doesn't make it right and as you can see, no one agrees with you either. It's not bullshit and every forensic scientist would agree with me. A normal human being who is struck with an object made of the hardest metal on Earth with such a violent impact that it sends him crashing into a wall behind him and then falls to the ground and doesn't move is dead. And your own video confirmed that. At no point after Strucker bounced off the wall and fell to the ground do we ever see Strucker get up or move again. Beings from another dimension is hardly any different than Gods.
So Mr. Mxyzptlk is a god too?
MCU treats Asgardians as just advanced aliens from another world. Asgardians in MCU are no more gods than Kryptonians or Martians or Thanagarians in DCEU.
If you don't like that, don't complain to me about. Go complain to MCU since they're the ones who wrote the story to say that Asgardians are just advanced aliens from another world and not gods. You claim that I don't accept what the MCU writers wrote, but you're not accepting the MCU writers saying that the Asgardians are just advanced aliens from another world and not gods.
As usual, you still continue to put words in my mouth. Just because I said one thing, doesn't mean I meant another thing. You really need to stop doing that. I said the mythical stuff in Indiana Jones isn't really that cliche because they're among the first films to start using those as plot devices, and they did it in an interesting way. Now-a-days, it's just not interesting to me anymore. So forgive me and anyone else who didn't brush up on their Greek mythology and learn about the divine shield. But also just because I said it's cliche, I never said it made the film horrible. Again, not getting into this bullshit debate. You want to believe he was killed by the shield, fair enough. Good luck convincing anyone on here Does it really matter? Gods, aliens, whatever, they still embrace the Norse mythology behind it.
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skribb
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Post by skribb on Jul 4, 2017 21:05:16 GMT
*wading thru the poop-fest that is this thread*
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dnno1
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Post by dnno1 on Jul 7, 2017 17:40:37 GMT
The photo was a subplot in BvS. Regardless of one's opinions on that film, the photo in WW was still carried over from that subplot. The Greek Gods presumably being dead doesn't mean we'll see nothing related to Greek mythology in the future. They could bring in characters like Circe somewhere down the line. That's it? Not exactly the Tesseract or Hydra or Vibranium or Shield. Just some flashbacks and an insignificant subplot. This is exactly what I'm talking about. No, of course they are not exactly the same, but they all share a common trait that they are Maguffins (i.e. plot devices). The photo plate was a plot device from BvS that was used to drive Wonder Woman's origin story. It may also serve as a plot device in a future film (Justice League?) where Diana eventually tells her story to Bruce Wayne who inquired about her possibly telling him her story.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jul 7, 2017 17:49:45 GMT
That's it? Not exactly the Tesseract or Hydra or Vibranium or Shield. Just some flashbacks and an insignificant subplot. This is exactly what I'm talking about. No, of course they are not exactly the same, but they all share a common trait that they are Maguffins (i.e. plot devices). The photo plate was a plot device from BvS that was used to drive Wonder Woman's origin story. It may also serve as a plot device in a future film (Justice League?) where Diana eventually tells her story to Bruce Wayne who inquired about her possibly telling him her story. No the Tesseract isn't a Maguffin, and neither is Hydra or Vibranium. A Maguffin is something that doesn't do anything to the plot but everybody wants it. The Tesseract, Hydra, and Vibrandium do things. The only thing that compares to them in WW potentially are the Amazonians. Everything else is just window dressing.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 7, 2017 17:53:06 GMT
No, of course they are not exactly the same, but they all share a common trait that they are Maguffins (i.e. plot devices). The photo plate was a plot device from BvS that was used to drive Wonder Woman's origin story. It may also serve as a plot device in a future film (Justice League?) where Diana eventually tells her story to Bruce Wayne who inquired about her possibly telling him her story. No the Tesseract isn't a Maguffin, and neither is Hydra or Vibranium. A Maguffin is something that doesn't do anything to the plot but everybody wants it. The Tesseract, Hydra, and Vibrandium do things. The only thing that compares to them in WW potentially are the Amazonians. Everything else is just window dressing. A MacGuffin is an object that is used to set the plot of a story in motion. That's exactly what the Tesseract and Vibranium are.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jul 7, 2017 17:57:32 GMT
A MacGuffin is an object that is used to set the plot of a story in motion. That's exactly what the Tesseract and Vibranium are. A MacGuffin is an object that ideally has no importance at all aside from everybody wanting it.
But this is getting off topic, which is that there is very little in WW that has the power to effect the DCU, and there are many things in First Avenger that had that power.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2017 23:33:31 GMT
The MCU movies fall apart after one viewing. WW keeps getting better and better.
WW > MCU
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skribb
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Post by skribb on Jul 8, 2017 1:17:04 GMT
The MCU movies fall apart after one viewing. WW keeps getting better and better. WW > MCU Why this is certainly an interesting take. Care to expound?
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dnno1
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Post by dnno1 on Jul 8, 2017 19:31:31 GMT
A MacGuffin is an object that is used to set the plot of a story in motion. That's exactly what the Tesseract and Vibranium are. A MacGuffin is an object that ideally has no importance at all aside from everybody wanting it.
But this is getting off topic, which is that there is very little in WW that has the power to effect the DCU, and there are many things in First Avenger that had that power.
No, a Macguffin is a plot device that is coveted by numerous people. The nature of the device is immatreial to the story (i.e. it doesn't matter where it came from or how it came to be). Another characteristic of a Macguffin is that it cause the protagonist to pursue the object/goal/motivator with little or no narative or explanation. That is why there were many questions about why Diana wanted the photograph. In the same fashion vibranium becomes the Macguffin since it can be found in large quantities in Wakanda, or that the Red Skull wanted the cosmic cube. You'd got your definition wrong. I suggest you look it up again from a credible source.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 8, 2017 19:39:25 GMT
Another characteristic of a Macguffin is that it cause the protagonist to pursue the object/goal/motivator with little or no narative or explanation. That is why there were many questions about why Diana wanted the photograph. That was a question in BvS, but that has been answered in Wonder Woman. That's the only photograph of Diana with Steve, Sameer, Charlie, and the Chief so it has sentimental value to her, especially after losing Steve and now that Steve, Sameer, and Charlie are all gone too. In the same fashion vibranium becomes the Macguffin since it can be found in large quantities in Wakanda, or that the Red Skull wanted the cosmic cube. Yep, those questions have never been answered so vibranium and the cosmic cube are true Macguffins.
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