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Post by charzhino on Sept 1, 2017 10:51:45 GMT
You, again, weren't paying attention. Zemo said that if he went after the Avengers or their families they'd unite against him. He needed something to turn them on one another. He didn't know for sure there was a tape until he got to that base (he knew there were other Winter Soldiers, wasn't 100% sure about the tape). He WAS just going to send Tony the tape, the others all showing up was just good fortune. Its still convoluted. Maybe Zemos plan would have been recieved with more impact if Cap and IronMan didnt make up at the end of film in no time at all. Essentially a waste of 2.5 hours of the whole films plot when it doesnt change any of the major characters behaviours or attitudes to either the Sokovia Accords or Zemos failed plan.
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Post by scabab on Sept 1, 2017 11:02:42 GMT
But the Marvel Cinematic Universe has used Loki as a major villain in two movies with minor antagonistic roles in two other movies itself. And? That's only four films out of 16 as opposed to Magneto, who... Shows. Up. In. Every. Single. Fucking. X-Men. Move. As The. Or A. Villain. So you can fuck right off. A Marvel series that covers the Marvel characters and Universe has a whole features Loki as an antagonist in a quarter of its movies. There's 10 X-men movies. Magneto was a main villain in two of those movies, a hero in one of the movies and was on both sides in three of them. So you're just complaining because a major X-men character is in many of the X-men movies? But it's alright for Xavier to be all of them?
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Sept 1, 2017 15:40:45 GMT
you really need to brush up on intercultural mythology Most people, myself included, don't give a shit about Norse mythology. not every deity matches exactly with others from different faiths. Well, the Roman gods are based on the Greek gods (e.g. Mars=Ares; Pluto=Hades; Venus=Aphrodite; Mercury=Hermes; Neptune=Poseidon; Jupiter=Zeus). Yes, because no super villain has ever not escaped prison. Adrian Toomes got his powers from the vulture suit that he built out of Chitauri technology. I'm sure the government took that away from him when they put him in prison so he has no powers in prison so escape wouldn't be so easy. The Chitauri ae huge in number So are the Chinese. And like the Chinese, the Chitauri have no superpowers either. So the Chitauri can no more defeat the Sentinels than the entire country of China can. So why doesn't he just kill off all his enemies then? no way would they kill off all Avengers in one story So it's just for plot convenience that Thanos doesn't kill off all the Avengers. Just like it was just plot convenience in Civil War that Zemo doesn't just go after the Avengers' families and loved ones and instead has to come up with the most convoluted plot in CBM history in which he finds the only copy of a 25-year-old videotape of Bucky killing the Starks and then, instead of just uploading the videotape to the Internet for the whole world to see, he waits for Cap, Bucky, and Iron Man all show up at the same remote base in Siberia at the exact same time (how Zemo knew that would happen is never explained in the movie) so they could all watch the videotape together. Or the plot convenience in Civil War in which Iron man knows Ca and Bucky are going to show up at the airport to hijack the quinjet to make their escape but Iron Man isn't even going to bother disabling the quinjet to prevent it from being hijack because the plot needs Ca and Bucky to get away so that Cap, Bucky, and Iron Man can all meet up at the same remote base in Siberia at the exact same time (how Zemo knew that would happen is never explained in the movie) so they could all watch the videotape together. You don't care about Norse mythology yet you ask questions about it, how ironic. So? Roman and Greek mythologies were closely linked together based on neighboring cultural communities, Norse mythology was formed in a much different and far away place. You are not very culturally wise aren't you? I recommend going to school and brushing up your intercultural history. Yes, because he needs a high-tech suit to escape prison, you don't know comic book writing very well do you? How ironic again. China? WTF. This ain't real life we're talking about a hive-minded alien race that has support from the cosmic cube. Who says he doesn't try to? I like how you nitpick Zemo in Civil War but think Lex Luthor's plans in BvS were perfectly sound, reasonable, and had no loose ends in the grander scheme of things. Anyway, formersamhmd owned you on this but you'll likely ignore their comment anyway, just like how you ignore that Ronan *wasn't* defeated in a dance-off.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Sept 1, 2017 15:50:13 GMT
You, again, weren't paying attention. Zemo said that if he went after the Avengers or their families they'd unite against him. He needed something to turn them on one another. He didn't know for sure there was a tape until he got to that base (he knew there were other Winter Soldiers, wasn't 100% sure about the tape). He WAS just going to send Tony the tape, the others all showing up was just good fortune. Its still convoluted. Maybe Zemos plan would have been recieved with more impact if Cap and IronMan didnt make up at the end of film in no time at all. Essentially a waste of 2.5 hours of the whole films plot when it doesnt change any of the major characters behaviours or attitudes to either the Sokovia Accords or Zemos failed plan. Agreed. It's like Marvel is terrified of upsetting the status quo. Like the ending to Avengers: "Because we'll need them to." In other words, we're not actually going to bother showing any dramatic reunion/reconciliation. They'll just team up again. And that's exactly what happened with Age of Ultron. There's just so much more potential for actual character interaction/drama if Tony struggles with calling Steve, unsure of whether Steve will come to his aid. And then showing Steve, or even the rest of the fugitive Avengers, struggling with answering Tony's call for help.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Sept 1, 2017 16:14:38 GMT
the comic books where he originates, which in turn are loosely based on the Norse mythological Loki who is often compared by scholars to Lucifer, aka the Devil from Christianity. You said Hela was the ruler of Hel in Norse mythology. So how is Loki equivalent to the Devil when they already have Hela in that role. the post-credits scene in SMH suggests there is more for him in down the road. Adrian Toomes is in jail. What more are they going to do with him in jail? Even Liz and her mother have moved out of New York so there's nothing more for the Adrian Toomes story arc. Thanos with his Infinity Gauntlet obliterates the Sentinels with ease. The non-human MCU villains can take on Sentinels with their fantastical and intergalactic resources. You missed the part where the future Sentinels adapt like the Borg in Star Trek do. Thanos might take down a few Sentinels with the Infinity Gauntlet but then the rest will adapt and the Infinity Gauntlet will be useless against them. And the non-human MCU villains can't take on the Sentinels. The Chitauri have no superpowers and Ronan the Big Bad Destroyer was defeated by a silly Dance-Off. Speaking of the Infinity Gauntlet, I've read comments from MCU fans that Avengers 3 will end with Thanos getting possession of all the Infinity Stones and Avengers 4 will be the Avengers re-grouping to defeat Thanos. But if Thanos has possession of the Infinity Stones at the end of Avengers 3, then he should be able to just kill all the Avengers using the Infinity Stones so there shouldn't be any Avengers 4. Unless the Infinity Stones aren't powerful enough to kill all the Avengers. In which case, what's the point of Thanos trying to obtain the MacGuffin Infinity Stones if the Infinity Stones aren't even powerful enough to kill all his enemies? Hey, I don't particularly care for Norse mythology myself, but even I'm not that stupid. Every mythology and religion has more than one form of a Christian-equivelant to a Devil. And you can bitch and moan about Civil War all you want, keep in mind tho that it has a 90% on RottenTomatos. Your whining doesn't speak for everyone else
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Sept 1, 2017 16:21:03 GMT
Loki's reasoning for his villainy was more fleshed out in one scene than Magneto's has been in all the movies he's appeared in. The non-human MCU villains can take on Sentinels with their fantastical and intergalactic resources. Nonsense. What scene are we talking about? Magneto is more fleshed out than Loki; its not even up for debate. For every scene that explores Lokis psyche and motivations, I can name you 3 better scenes with more nuance with Magneto. They're both essentially the same mould of character, but Eric is better written and acted even in the bad movies. The sentinels would destroy the Avengers within minutes. This one, www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fJiyYwCyEILoki has developed more in each film he's appeared in, Magneto's only been developed further in two movies, perhaps three, but his characterization is generally flat in the movies - he's the same pretty much at the beginning and end of the stories. Sentinels were not designed to fight "Gods"( i.e. Thor), they were designed to combat mutants. The Sentinels would be able to take of the more "grounded" Avengers( Black Widow, Hawkeye...) but Thor wouldn't be an instant victory, and as for The Hulk... www.nerdspan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/hulk-vs-sentinel.jpg
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 16:27:55 GMT
Its still convoluted. Maybe Zemos plan would have been recieved with more impact if Cap and IronMan didnt make up at the end of film in no time at all. Essentially a waste of 2.5 hours of the whole films plot when it doesnt change any of the major characters behaviours or attitudes to either the Sokovia Accords or Zemos failed plan. Agreed. It's like Marvel is terrified of upsetting the status quo. Like the ending to Avengers: "Because we'll need them to." In other words, we're not actually going to bother showing any dramatic reunion/reconciliation. They'll just team up again. And that's exactly what happened with Age of Ultron. There's just so much more potential for actual character interaction/drama if Tony struggles with calling Steve, unsure of whether Steve will come to his aid. And then showing Steve, or even the rest of the fugitive Avengers, struggling with answering Tony's call for help. Wrong yet again. Its DC and Fox that's terrified of upsetting the status quo. The MCU has been trailblazing and innovating from day one and always giving us something different. Also, Tony and Steve didn't make up at the end of Civil War. You need to stop siding with the haters. If you have so little fondness for the series and aren't giving to give anyone working it on any credit, just stop watching now and go away. I'm not going to bother talking about how wrong you are about literally everything else you say in the second and third paragraphs is wrong. There will be a dramatic reunion/reconciliation, but only because Thanos will force the issues. Tony will struggle with calling Steve, and the fugitive Avengers will answering with answering Tony's call for help. However, it is nice to see your true colors as a hater.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 16:28:29 GMT
And? That's only four films out of 16 as opposed to Magneto, who... Shows. Up. In. Every. Single. Fucking. X-Men. Move. As The. Or A. Villain. So you can fuck right off. A Marvel series that covers the Marvel characters and Universe has a whole features Loki as an antagonist in a quarter of its movies. There's 10 X-men movies. Magneto was a main villain in two of those movies, a hero in one of the movies and was on both sides in three of them. So you're just complaining because a major X-men character is in many of the X-men movies? But it's alright for Xavier to be all of them? Loki's only in the ones where its relevant to have him. If he was also in the Captain America sequels, Ant-Man, and/or Doctor Strange, I would agree with you that there's a problem. However, his appearances have been limited to being Thor's frenemy and the primary antagonist of the first Avengers. You're basically just splitting hairs just to bitch and whine about something. Yeah, and Magneto is a villain in every appearance in all of them. Same thing over and over and over again.
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Post by scabab on Sept 1, 2017 17:39:22 GMT
A Marvel series that covers the Marvel characters and Universe has a whole features Loki as an antagonist in a quarter of its movies. There's 10 X-men movies. Magneto was a main villain in two of those movies, a hero in one of the movies and was on both sides in three of them. So you're just complaining because a major X-men character is in many of the X-men movies? But it's alright for Xavier to be all of them? Loki's only in the ones where its relevant to have him. If he was also in the Captain America sequels, Ant-Man, and/or Doctor Strange, I would agree with you that there's a problem. However, his appearances have been limited to being Thor's frenemy and the primary antagonist of the first Avengers. You're basically just splitting hairs just to bitch and whine about something. Yeah, and Magneto is a villain in every appearance in all of them. Same thing over and over and over again. And Magneto is X-men enemy in a series called X-men. He was the main villain in X-men and X-men 3 and played both sides in the other movies where another character was the main villain, being either Stryker, Trask, Apocalypse and Shaw. It'd be the same thing if Magneto was the main villain in every movie and he isn't.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 17:48:18 GMT
Loki's only in the ones where its relevant to have him. If he was also in the Captain America sequels, Ant-Man, and/or Doctor Strange, I would agree with you that there's a problem. However, his appearances have been limited to being Thor's frenemy and the primary antagonist of the first Avengers. You're basically just splitting hairs just to bitch and whine about something. Yeah, and Magneto is a villain in every appearance in all of them. Same thing over and over and over again. And Magneto is X-men enemy in a series called X-men. He was the main villain in X-men and X-men 3 and played both sides in the other movies where another character was the main villain, being either Stryker, Trask, Apocalypse and Shaw. It'd be the same thing if Magneto was the main villain in every movie and he isn't. Yeah, except Magneto does it for a much, much larger percentage of the X-Men series than Loki does it for the MCU. Blah blah blah. You just want reasons to hate.
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Post by scabab on Sept 1, 2017 19:17:55 GMT
And Magneto is X-men enemy in a series called X-men. He was the main villain in X-men and X-men 3 and played both sides in the other movies where another character was the main villain, being either Stryker, Trask, Apocalypse and Shaw. It'd be the same thing if Magneto was the main villain in every movie and he isn't. Yeah, except Magneto does it for a much, much larger percentage of the X-Men series than Loki does it for the MCU. Blah blah blah. You just want reasons to hate. Because Magneto is an X-men related character in a X-men movie series. Complaining that he is in a bunch of X-men movie in a villainous role is like complaining because Wolverine is in a lot of X-men movies as a good guy every time. Loki is a villain in 25% of Marvels movies which are able to cover anyone and everyone. I'm not the one that's hating. You were the one complaining about it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 19:33:28 GMT
Yeah, except Magneto does it for a much, much larger percentage of the X-Men series than Loki does it for the MCU. Blah blah blah. You just want reasons to hate. Because Magneto is an X-men related character in a X-men movie series. Complaining that he is in a bunch of X-men movie in a villainous role is like complaining because Wolverine is in a lot of X-men movies as a good guy every time. Loki is a villain in 25% of Marvels movies which are able to cover anyone and everyone. I'm not the one that's hating. You were the one complaining about it. Actually, I do hate that Wolverine is in damn near every X-Men film. He keeps hogging the spotlight when those are supposed to be ensemble pictures. Yeah, and Loki is only there when its relevant for him to be. You're right. You're not hating on the MCU. I allowed myself to get carried away again upon reviewing the topic. Sorry, I come expecting a fight all the time.
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Post by formersamhmd on Sept 1, 2017 20:36:20 GMT
You, again, weren't paying attention. Zemo said that if he went after the Avengers or their families they'd unite against him. He needed something to turn them on one another. He didn't know for sure there was a tape until he got to that base (he knew there were other Winter Soldiers, wasn't 100% sure about the tape). He WAS just going to send Tony the tape, the others all showing up was just good fortune. Its still convoluted. Maybe Zemos plan would have been recieved with more impact if Cap and IronMan didnt make up at the end of film in no time at all. Essentially a waste of 2.5 hours of the whole films plot when it doesnt change any of the major characters behaviours or attitudes to either the Sokovia Accords or Zemos failed plan. Just because Tony isn't fanatically scouring the world to hunt down Steve and Bucky doesn't mean they made up in no time at all. Anyways, it's no different than how Xavier just keeps letting Magneto go when logically he should've just fragged him by this point.
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Post by formersamhmd on Sept 1, 2017 20:41:06 GMT
Yeah, except Magneto does it for a much, much larger percentage of the X-Men series than Loki does it for the MCU. Blah blah blah. You just want reasons to hate. Because Magneto is an X-men related character in a X-men movie series. Complaining that he is in a bunch of X-men movie in a villainous role is like complaining because Wolverine is in a lot of X-men movies as a good guy every time. Loki is a villain in 25% of Marvels movies which are able to cover anyone and everyone. I'm not the one that's hating. You were the one complaining about it. Loki being the villain in Avengers 1 was being true to the comics, where he WAS the first villain they fought. Other than that he's only been in the 3 Thor movies.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 21:34:11 GMT
Loki's reasoning for his villainy was more fleshed out in one scene than Magneto's has been in all the movies he's appeared in. The non-human MCU villains can take on Sentinels with their fantastical and intergalactic resources. Nonsense. What scene are we talking about? Magneto is more fleshed out than Loki; its not even up for debate. For every scene that explores Lokis psyche and motivations, I can name you 3 better scenes with more nuance with Magneto. They're both essentially the same mould of character, but Eric is better written and acted even in the bad movies. The sentinels would destroy the Avengers within minutes. The sentinels are designed to only adapt to mutants not anything else. Sorry you fail to see this with your bias goggles but The Avengers would destroy the sentinels in seconds.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 21:40:04 GMT
You, again, weren't paying attention. Zemo said that if he went after the Avengers or their families they'd unite against him. He needed something to turn them on one another. He didn't know for sure there was a tape until he got to that base (he knew there were other Winter Soldiers, wasn't 100% sure about the tape). He WAS just going to send Tony the tape, the others all showing up was just good fortune. Its still convoluted. Maybe Zemos plan would have been recieved with more impact if Cap and IronMan didnt make up at the end of film in no time at all. Essentially a waste of 2.5 hours of the whole films plot when it doesnt change any of the major characters behaviours or attitudes to either the Sokovia Accords or Zemos failed plan. The Russos confirmed that Steve and Tony aren't talking to each other anymore. They just aren't going to pursue or fight each other but their not friends either they're in that gray area where they're just acquaintances; there is going to be some tension between them in Infinity War. Their attitudes towards each other have changed as Cap's team is a group of fugitives now. Zemo split The Avengers up so he did succeed. You and everyone else complaining about there being no consequences in Civil War will be eating your words by 2018.
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Post by scabab on Sept 1, 2017 21:44:14 GMT
Nonsense. What scene are we talking about? Magneto is more fleshed out than Loki; its not even up for debate. For every scene that explores Lokis psyche and motivations, I can name you 3 better scenes with more nuance with Magneto. They're both essentially the same mould of character, but Eric is better written and acted even in the bad movies. The sentinels would destroy the Avengers within minutes. The sentinels are designed to only adapt to mutants not anything else. Sorry you fail to see this with your bias goggles but The Avengers would destroy the sentinels in seconds. Doomsday on the other hand would kill them all like they were nothing.
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Post by formersamhmd on Sept 1, 2017 21:54:20 GMT
The sentinels are designed to only adapt to mutants not anything else. Sorry you fail to see this with your bias goggles but The Avengers would destroy the sentinels in seconds. Doomsday on the other hand would kill them all like they were nothing. I dunno, Vision could probably take him. Infinity Stone and all.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 21:59:29 GMT
Doomsday on the other hand would kill them all like they were nothing. I dunno, Vision could probably take him. Infinity Stone and all. Doctor Strange would actually be a better choice as he's probably the most powerful Avenger right now or atleast potentially as he's the Sorcerer Supreme now.
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Post by scabab on Sept 1, 2017 22:04:34 GMT
Doomsday on the other hand would kill them all like they were nothing. I dunno, Vision could probably take him. Infinity Stone and all. I dunno he was having trouble using it to finish off Ultron and that was with Thor and Iron Man's help. Doomsday took a nuke and kept on going. Infact the energy from it just made him even stronger so Vision would probably only make him even stronger than he is already. Outside of some weird form of Hax like the above mentioned with Doctor Strange then there's no way they could really stop him and Strange isn't an Avenger anyway.
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