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Post by ThatGuy on Jul 20, 2017 0:22:25 GMT
Bitter? I'm just wondering who, besides evil masterminds and guys that ran from the evil mastermind's doomsday machine, says "shook the very fabric" these days. And one day the DCEU might make a good movie. Who will blink first. Now pretending that WW wasn't well-received, eh? Fantasy Land must be nice. Didn't read my previous post all the way through, huh? I said " Until there is another DC movie at that level (or even almost to it), you guys will worship of the alter of TDK." Is Wonder Woman at the level that you guys are forgetting that TDK is "The bestest CBM evers!!!"?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2017 0:32:11 GMT
Now pretending that WW wasn't well-received, eh? Fantasy Land must be nice. Didn't read my previous post all the way through, huh? I said " Until there is another DC movie at that level (or even almost to it), you guys will worship of the alter of TDK." Is Wonder Woman at the level that you guys are forgetting that TDK is "The bestest CBM evers!!!"? Your exact (dumb) quote: "And one day the DCEU might make a good movie." Like TDK, WW is a smashing success. A critical and commercial triumph. In fact, it has the best weekend-to-weekend hold for any superhero movie ever. Meanwhile, over on your corporate overlords' side of things, Marvel's most popular character (Spider-Man) slipped on a banana peel and fell flat on his face in his second weekend by dropping a whopping 62% (the second WORST for any Marvel movie ever). Ouch.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jul 20, 2017 1:18:31 GMT
One success after 3 failures isn't much to boast about, especially since WW had the artificial boosters Spidey didn't.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Jul 20, 2017 1:19:54 GMT
One success after 3 failures isn't much to boast about, especially since WW had the artificial boosters Spidey didn't. What "artificial boosters"? Did you have another unproven and unprovable "hunch" about that one too?
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Post by formersamhmd on Jul 20, 2017 1:53:31 GMT
One success after 3 failures isn't much to boast about, especially since WW had the artificial boosters Spidey didn't. What "artificial boosters"? Did you have another unproven and unprovable "hunch" about that one too? 1) It being a decent movie after the failure that came before it make it stand out more, while Homecoming is another MCU Success after all their other successes. People are looking at WW more and thinking "It's the diamond in the rough" even if it's not much of a diamond and thus it stands out more. 2) Decent Woman Superhero film, first one ever. Even if it's just "decent" and nothing more. 3) Didn't have much competition.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jul 20, 2017 2:11:25 GMT
I've never understood the argument against the Joker in TDK. "Everything seemed to go his way." That's just lazy viewing, you're not putting any thought into it. The guy had contingency plans and lied constantly. He gave multiple origin stories, reversed the addresses of his hostages and insisted he didn't have a plan while essentially revealing his plan. Chaos was his ultimate goal and he succeeded. You don't need to be omnipotent in order to induce panic in the general public. Blow up buildings, execute public officials and stage shootouts in the street and believe me you're going to generate some chaos. If Batman doesn't show up and Joker kills Harvey in the streets, Joker still wins. If Joker doesn't get caught and still sends the fat guy with a bomb into the MCU, Joker still wins. An omnipotent Joker kills the Mayor. An omnipotent Joker gets the people on each ferry to blow themselves up. An omnipotent Joker gets the police to blow away the hostages who are wearing masks at the end. Everything didn't go his way, but he still achieved his ultimate goal. I don't know if enough people realize the Joker won in TDK. He turned the DA into a homicidal maniac, he convinced average people to try to kill Reese, he killed Batman's love interest and he ultimately forced Batman to 'break his one rule' then become an outlaw. Chaos. Chaos was his goal, and about as non-specific a goal as you're going to find. Mission accomplished, and to be honest he put much more planning into it than he needed to. That he was always able to pull off every plan, always had bombs in just the right place, everyone did exactly as he commanded, no one questioned or outsmarted him, etc. That's omnipotent enough. And lazy writing. I feel like I addressed all of this in my post. He didn't pull off every plan. Gordon saved the mayor. The people on the ferries didn't detonate the bombs. Batman thwarted his plan for the hostages to be shot by police during the final act. Joker constantly moved the goal posts because that's what he does. He would've been just as happy killing Harvey during transport as he was to hold him hostage; I don't think he was banking on Batman launching the Batmobile in front of his RPG at the last second.
TDK is a great flick, but I don't expect everyone to share my opinion. It's cool if you didn't like it, I just disagree with the premise of an 'omnipotent Joker.'
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Jul 20, 2017 2:21:13 GMT
What "artificial boosters"? Did you have another unproven and unprovable "hunch" about that one too? 1) It being a decent movie after the failure that came before it make it stand out more, while Homecoming is another MCU Success after all their other successes. People are looking at WW more and thinking "It's the diamond in the rough" even if it's not much of a diamond and thus it stands out more. 2) Decent Woman Superhero film, first one ever. Even if it's just "decent" and nothing more. 3) Didn't have much competition. The first two are conjecture. I can't speak with any depth to the third one because I'm about to eat a steak dinner and am too lazy to peek at the box office numbers for whatever it was up against, presumably Pirates of the Caribbean 12 and some other middling crap, along with a surging Guardians sequel prolly about to fall off. You might have a decent case for its competition being slightly weaker than previous years, but prolly not.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 20, 2017 3:21:52 GMT
I can't speak with any depth to the third one because I'm about to eat a steak dinner and am too lazy to peek at the box office numbers for whatever it was up against, presumably Pirates of the Caribbean 12 and some other middling crap, along with a surging Guardians sequel prolly about to fall off. You might have a decent case for its competition being slightly weaker than previous years, but prolly not. The competition that Wonder Woman has held up against includes: Tom Cruise and The MummyTransformers Pixar Despicable Me 3Pirates of the Caribbean MCU's version of Spider-Man Not a single week of Wonder Woman's 7 weekends has seen a decline of over 43%, which is rare for a superhero movie. Nothing that has been thrown at Wonder Woman has managed to make a huge dent on its box office. Meanwhile, SMH goes against a Apes movie that had an opening weekend lower than what was projected and lower than the franchise's previous movie ( Dawn of the Planet of the Apes) and drops a whopping 62% on its 2nd weekend and has a lower box office on its 2nd weekend ($44.2M) than Wonder Woman had on the 2nd weekend ($58.5M).
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Jul 20, 2017 3:23:47 GMT
I can't speak with any depth to the third one because I'm about to eat a steak dinner and am too lazy to peek at the box office numbers for whatever it was up against, presumably Pirates of the Caribbean 12 and some other middling crap, along with a surging Guardians sequel prolly about to fall off. You might have a decent case for its competition being slightly weaker than previous years, but prolly not. The competition that Wonder Woman has held up against includes: Tom Cruise and The MummyTransformers Pixar Despicable Me 3Pirates of the Caribbean MCU's version of Spider-Man Not a single week of Wonder Woman's 7 weekends has seen a decline of over 43%, which is rare for a superhero movie. Nothing that has been thrown at Wonder Woman has managed to make a huge dent on its box office. Meanwhile, SMH goes against a Apes movie that had an opening weekend lower than what was projected and lower than the franchise's previous movie ( Dawn of the Planet of the Apes) and drops a whopping 62% on its 2nd weekend and has a lower box office on its 2nd weekend ($44.2M) than Wonder Woman had on the 2nd weekend ($58.5M). Damn, dude. That was... impressive. Numbers are numbers.
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Post by barcode on Jul 20, 2017 6:53:22 GMT
TDK is the greatest CBM till date and one of the greatest movies across genres. The movie was able to set the bar so high that other Films/TV shows/Directors/Production houses , all are still trying to match it ever since its arrival.
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Post by sostie on Jul 20, 2017 9:39:53 GMT
Warner Bros. Pictures and DC Entertainment gave us the Gold Standard for modern superhero blockbuster filmmaking: The Dark Knight. What an epic achievement that has yet to be topped! It's not as good as Brandon lees the crow The Crow really isn't that good at all
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Post by formersamhmd on Jul 20, 2017 10:37:37 GMT
I can't speak with any depth to the third one because I'm about to eat a steak dinner and am too lazy to peek at the box office numbers for whatever it was up against, presumably Pirates of the Caribbean 12 and some other middling crap, along with a surging Guardians sequel prolly about to fall off. You might have a decent case for its competition being slightly weaker than previous years, but prolly not. The competition that Wonder Woman has held up against includes: Tom Cruise and The MummyTransformers Pixar Despicable Me 3Pirates of the Caribbean MCU's version of Spider-Man Not a single week of Wonder Woman's 7 weekends has seen a decline of over 43%, which is rare for a superhero movie. Nothing that has been thrown at Wonder Woman has managed to make a huge dent on its box office. Meanwhile, SMH goes against a Apes movie that had an opening weekend lower than what was projected and lower than the franchise's previous movie ( Dawn of the Planet of the Apes) and drops a whopping 62% on its 2nd weekend and has a lower box office on its 2nd weekend ($44.2M) than Wonder Woman had on the 2nd weekend ($58.5M). Tom Cruise's Mummy wasn't a welcome film, people weren't looking forward to it. Same with Transformers or Pirates. Spidey came out after WW, and it didn't have WW's artificial Boosters. Despicable Me 2 is a second sequel in a series where part 2 wasn't well regarded (competent, but not impressive). Homecoming is up against harder competition.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jul 20, 2017 10:38:21 GMT
1) It being a decent movie after the failure that came before it make it stand out more, while Homecoming is another MCU Success after all their other successes. People are looking at WW more and thinking "It's the diamond in the rough" even if it's not much of a diamond and thus it stands out more. 2) Decent Woman Superhero film, first one ever. Even if it's just "decent" and nothing more. 3) Didn't have much competition. The first two are conjecture. I can't speak with any depth to the third one because I'm about to eat a steak dinner and am too lazy to peek at the box office numbers for whatever it was up against, presumably Pirates of the Caribbean 12 and some other middling crap, along with a surging Guardians sequel prolly about to fall off. You might have a decent case for its competition being slightly weaker than previous years, but prolly not. They aren't conjecture, the poor performance of the DCEU up til now and Female heroes in general gave WW an artificial boost for being merely competent.
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Post by furiousstyles77 on Jul 20, 2017 10:53:14 GMT
It's not as good as Brandon lees the crow The Crow really isn't that good at all yes it is , its a stunning film , a hell of lot better than the dark knight
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Jul 20, 2017 13:52:26 GMT
I liked the more realistic setting approach (as opposed to the neoGothic architecture of the previous ones). However, I think Ledger's death cast a morbidity over it--so I can't say he was the best Joker or the scariest. Still hate the way the Nolans write dialogue. The black convict talking to the prison guard sounds artificial-like he is speaking as an oracle. Not the best comic book movie in my view. The original Superman is still a lot more fun and epic. Robocop, which premiered this week in 1987, is also more comic bookish and fun than the ones I have seen recently. If I want a slice of life drama I will watch Ordinary People. From a comic book movie I want colorful costumes, strange villains like talking gorillas bent on world domination, and people taking such ridiculous situations seriously. Thank you! Very well said.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 20, 2017 23:49:06 GMT
"...shook the very fabric of the Academy Awards." Did you shake your fist in the air as you thought that? If that was the case, they would have just put that in the category. Expanding the nominations won't solve anything when they'll just vote for the same movies as before. It's bone throwing to make the category bigger just to make you happier to see "Best Picture Nominee" on your new DVD. Don't be so bitter. Marvel might one day make something worthy of awards consideration (when they decide to stop pandering to the lowest common denominator). TDK wasn't nominated for Best Writing, Best Director, or Best Picture, the majority of its nominations were in technical categories( Sound, VFX, Cinematography). The only thing you can really latch onto is Heath Ledger's win for Best Supporting Actor but please note that he was only actor in that movie nominated for their work by the Academy. And whether you like it or not Nolan's Batman movies, including TDK, are as much a "McMovie" as any other MCU movie is, as in they were heavily produced entertainments that are designed to appeal to as wide an audience as possible, heavily marketed to the general public, and are not difficult to locate at a theater near you. TDK wasn't a fancy art film released to a very specific audience with themes, philosophies, and artistic exploration that the average person couldn't fully understand the first time they see it. Sorry, it just wasn't. And it doesn't deserve its number four spot in the top 250 films, either. MANY movies on that list that are rated lower are far, far better.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 20, 2017 23:59:53 GMT
Well, it only took a few posts before this thread became a DC vs Marvel fight. This was a thread about TDK, but then MCU zombies like formersamhmd, judgejosephdredd, and weirdraptor who are jealous of how great TDK was turned this thread into a DC vs MCU fight.
That's similar to how the DC vs MCU war started in 2008. When Iron Man was released in May 2008, MCU fans were talking trash and bragging about how Iron Man would dominate The Dark Knight at the box office. Then The Dark Knight was released in July 2008 and set all kinds of box office records. The MCU fans got jealous and started throwing hissy fits and wrote many posts saying The Dark Knight was over-rated.
Dennis was the one who made the topic on a board specifically designed for Marvel Studios' productions, which was, given their presentation, designed to annoy. Its really their fault, and their childish attitude in talking to their responders hasn't helped at all. In 2008, Nolanites were everywhere hyping up TDK like crazy on every message board for every movie that might've posed a threat to its success that one summer, and I'm not just talking about the first Iron Man. Nobody was safe from their fan-isms and it got old before TDK even came out. And when anybody said anything critical about it, they were labeled as trolls and buffoons. Also, I am one of the biggest Batman fans around and I have more history with DC than I do Marvel and TDK was one of my favorites of 2008, saw it plenty of times in theaters.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 0:40:29 GMT
Don't be so bitter. Marvel might one day make something worthy of awards consideration (when they decide to stop pandering to the lowest common denominator). TDK wasn't nominated for Best Writing, Best Director, or Best Picture, the majority of its nominations were in technical categories( Sound, VFX, Cinematography). The only thing you can really latch onto is Heath Ledger's win for Best Supporting Actor but please note that he was only actor in that movie nominated for their work by the Academy. And whether you like it or not Nolan's Batman movies, including TDK, are as much a "McMovie" as any other MCU movie is, as in they were heavily produced entertainments that are designed to appeal to as wide an audience as possible, heavily marketed to the general public, and are not difficult to locate at a theater near you. TDK wasn't a fancy art film released to a very specific audience with themes, philosophies, and artistic exploration that the average person couldn't fully understand the first time they see it. Sorry, it just wasn't. And it doesn't deserve its number four spot in the top 250 films, either. MANY movies on that list that are rated lower are far, far better. Another bitter MCU Zombie!
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 21, 2017 0:52:20 GMT
TDK wasn't nominated for Best Writing, Best Director, or Best Picture, the majority of its nominations were in technical categories( Sound, VFX, Cinematography). The only thing you can really latch onto is Heath Ledger's win for Best Supporting Actor but please note that he was only actor in that movie nominated for their work by the Academy. And whether you like it or not Nolan's Batman movies, including TDK, are as much a "McMovie" as any other MCU movie is, as in they were heavily produced entertainments that are designed to appeal to as wide an audience as possible, heavily marketed to the general public, and are not difficult to locate at a theater near you. TDK wasn't a fancy art film released to a very specific audience with themes, philosophies, and artistic exploration that the average person couldn't fully understand the first time they see it. Sorry, it just wasn't. And it doesn't deserve its number four spot in the top 250 films, either. MANY movies on that list that are rated lower are far, far better. Another bitter MCU Zombie! TDK was one of my favorite films of 2008 and I have a longer history with DC than I do Marvel, I am also one of the biggest Batman fans you'd ever meet anywhere. Try again.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Jul 21, 2017 4:11:06 GMT
Another bitter MCU Zombie! TDK was one of my favorite films of 2008 and I have a longer history with DC than I do Marvel, I am also one of the biggest Batman fans you'd ever meet anywhere. Try again. So basically you hate DC, especially Batman, and are a Marvel mark?
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