|
|
Post by Tristan's Journal on Nov 9, 2017 12:51:09 GMT
you neglect to mention that the misses were on MCU level bad, while the hits soared to heights MCU could not possibly imagine. I am taking about the narrative maturity of Logan, the allegorical character writing in X1, the daring tonal absurdity of Deadpool, the imaginative diversity of DoPP and many others. These films made Magneto, Logan and Xavier household names and top ten characters. MCU Marvel would ruin and butcher allt that with their commercialized kiddy formula for the dumb masses. It would be like giving the James Bond series to Michael Bay. The worst MCU film is still miles above the worst X-Men movie while the better ones are on par with the best of the MCU. if you believe it it's not a lie. Hulk, IM2, Thor2, Raccoon Turd 2 stink to the high heavens.  Arguably, these are on par with Wolverine 1 or Apocalyse, but only only "arguably" in the widest sense and if argued in very bad taste.
Logan alone reduces the entire MCU to commercialized kiddy fodder with one single adamantium claw. Jeez, did you even see Thor: FraggleRock? What they did to the myth? Logan was the the film deserving the title "Ragnaröck", having main character deaths, stakes and legacy subtext.
shifting goalposts, eh? And keeping it ambiguous, huh? And no argumentative evidence, bleh? All are fallacies. Three demerits!
Look I can make claims too:
1. Astroids are always falling into craters, that's a natural law. 2. And dinosaurs always stand in such craters, this is why they died out. 3. Dying out was the greatest gift the dinos could make us, except for the weirdraptor.
Sure they were...for comic book nerds. Aside from the nerd-minority, nobody gave a mutant's ass about them. also, this is not about false dilemmas but nuance: Do you seriously claim Magneto would be a top 10 villain and Wolf be Top 3 on Ranker if Fox Men did not happen...? Don't even try.
Whatever, bottom line: Fox Men at least have allegorigal meaninings. They are still a lot smarter, artistically ambitious and varied than MCU movies. MCU is the epitome of dumbed down formula ware for the masses.
You're dreddfully good with shill appeasment attemts, you know that?
That sounds like the henchmen before the beheading telling you that all you will feel is a little prick in the neck, and that the stories of the detached rolling head being fully concious and seeing the bloody horror for some times are exaggerated...I'm already feeling better.
 thus bleated the sheeple: "Meeeeeh, moooar Maaaarvel"
|
|
|
|
Post by sostie on Nov 9, 2017 12:55:26 GMT
I'd be interested if MCU took a stab at F4 but not bothered if they don't. Never a huge fan of them. Visually Mr Fantastic would be great on screen, and The Thing has some great potential both physically and emotionally. The rest I don't really care for.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 9, 2017 13:13:47 GMT
For those who keep saying X-men should stay with fox, just remember that the X-men movies have been pretty much hit and miss. In fact it was mostly miss. Sure they gave us a good Wolverine, Prof. X and Deadpool but is everyone forgetting how they completely butchered almost every character they laid hands on? I agree with you on Fox's overall mishandling of the property and yet I still would prefer the X-Men to stay in a separate universe. Not all comics have the same tone; the movies should reflect that. |
|
|
|
Post by Lord Death Man on Nov 9, 2017 14:31:59 GMT
People don't see the big picture of reunification. Anti-Fox/Sony and Pro-MCU fan-atics are so consumed in their hatred of everything the other studios represent that they can't imagine any studio beyond Marvel daring to make a film. Fixed. Is this the first verse of the new Anti-MCU Bible - Chorizo Edition? Sweet. "In the beginning there was Fox..." Hee hee hee... |
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Nov 9, 2017 14:42:27 GMT
Hulk, IM2, Thor2, Raccoon Turd 2 stink to the high heavens If you're a sell-out who disliked unashamed stuff. Only got a good reception because it was Jackman's Swan Song. And the Ragnarok myth was never about the end of everything. Thor Ragnarok was true to that. Yeah, probably. Fox's stuff was unnecessary. No, just Holocaust Exploitation. Cheap and lazy. |
|
|
|
Post by kuatorises on Nov 9, 2017 15:47:09 GMT
For those who keep saying X-men should stay with fox, just remember that the X-men movies have been pretty much hit and miss. In fact it was mostly miss. Sure they gave us a good Wolverine, Prof. X and Deadpool but is everyone forgetting how they completely butchered almost every character they laid hands on? I don't think that's true. Two out of three in the initial trilogy have good reviews. The same can be said about the second trilogy AND the Wolverine movies. And we all know how Deadpool did. Most of them havebeen well received and/or made money. |
|
|
|
Post by Tristan's Journal on Nov 9, 2017 16:23:20 GMT
Raccoon Turd 2 stink to the high heavens If you're a sell-out who disliked unashamed stuff. I'll admit I'm ashamed of raccoon turds. You should be too.
Swan song already implies it was great, or you would not use that word.
I did not claim it was "the end of everything" but you. Mythological Ragnarök was about the brutal death of all important gods, including Thor, Loki, Odin and their kids. And of mankind and giants and the world drowning, except for a few survivors. Not like Fraggle Rock.
The intellectual effort and precise argumentation that went into this response. Impressive. Yeah it's from the Marvel comics since the early 80s. It's what Marvel does. But Fox Men are not ashamed of badly written comic books.
|
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Nov 9, 2017 16:38:15 GMT
I'll admit I'm ashamed of raccoon turds. You should be too. If you're ashamed of that, then you're ashamed of Deadpool's humor as well. Swan Song in this context refers to 'final performance'. Asgard was destroyed, Gods died and the survivors go elsewhere to start over. And the Gods DO come back in the Ragnarok myth...which means that the movie version actually outdid the myth. 2 + 2 = 4. It was inventive for its time. No longer. |
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Nov 9, 2017 16:53:47 GMT
The worst MCU film is still miles above the worst X-Men movie while the better ones are on par with the best of the MCU. if you believe it it's not a lie. Hulk, IM2, Thor2, Raccoon Turd 2 stink to the high heavens. Arguably, these are on par with Wolverine 1 or Apocalyse, but only only "arguably" in the widest sense and if argued in very bad taste.
Logan alone reduces the entire MCU to commercialized kiddy fodder with one single adamantium claw. Jeez, did you even see Thor: FraggleRock? What they did to the myth? Logan was the the film deserving the title "Ragnaröck", having main character deaths, stakes and legacy subtext.
shifting goalposts, eh? And keeping it ambiguous, huh? And no argumentative evidence, bleh? All are fallacies. Three demerits!
Look I can make claims too:
1. Astroids are always falling into craters, that's a natural law. 2. And dinosaurs always stand in such craters, this is why they died out. 3. Dying out was the greatest gift the dinos could make us, except for the weirdraptor.
Sure they were...for comic book nerds. Aside from the nerd-minority, nobody gave a mutant's ass about them. also, this is not about false dilemmas but nuance: Do you seriously claim Magneto would be a top 10 villain and Wolf be Top 3 on Ranker if Fox Men did not happen...? Don't even try.
Whatever, bottom line: Fox Men at least have allegorigal meaninings. They are still a lot smarter, artistically ambitious and varied than MCU movies. MCU is the epitome of dumbed down formula ware for the masses.
You're dreddfully good with shill appeasment attemts, you know that?
That sounds like the henchmen before the beheading telling you that all you will feel is a little prick in the neck, and that the stories of the detached rolling head being fully concious and seeing the bloody horror for some times are exaggerated...I'm already feeling better.
thus bleated the sheeple: "Meeeeeh, moooar Maaaarvel"
I'd much rather watch Incredible Hulk, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, Thor: The Dark World, and Iron Man 2 any day of the week at any time of the day than watch X-Men Origins: Wolverine again, a movie which has NOTHING going for it and was so bad they had to erase it from continuity with every later X-Men film. Apocalypse wasn't that bad, it was just "whatever" mostly. Thor the myth is not the same as Thor the comic book character, the comics are only loosely inspired by the actual mythology and the movies take any and all inspiration from the comic books, not the actual mythology from the Norsemen. You also cannot really compare Logan with Thor: Ragnarok, they maybe be based on Marvel properties but they have very different goals to aim for; Logan wanted to be a visceral and gritty drama whereas Thor: Ragnarok aspired to be a fantastical, 80's influenced buddy movie like Big Trouble in Little China. If you think I'm making excuses here, I'm not, if someone asked me to compare Thor: Ragnarok to Captain America: The Winter Soldier( An MCU film that I'd put Logan on par with) I don't think I could because again they have different goals in mind - And based on reception, they all succeeded in their endeavors. Pretty much every person I know who is into the X-Men has been a fan of the comic and cartoons first with usually mixed opinions on the movies, I've rarely come across a person who was introduced to the franchise from the movies themselves. The X-Men were a hot property in the 80's and 90's and still are today but the movies did not do the same thing to the brand as say Batman '89 or Superman: The Movie or the first Iron Man had done with their respective brands, they've been mostly "just there"; acknowledged for their existence but not held in the same regard as what came before. "Allegorical meanings" is meaningless, if the story isn't executed well and it cannot hold the audience's attention for very long then it hasn't done its job. The X-Men films haven't knocked this out of the park with every entry, and the MCU doesn't have any allegorical meaning with some of their stories? Shows how perceptive you are. More varied and artistically ambitious? Please. Captain America: The First Avenger is a retro action/adventure epic in the style of the 1930's matinee serials, its follow up The Winter Soldier is a 70's influenced political espionage thriller. The Incredible Hulk is a monster movie. Ant-Man is a heist movie. Guardians of the Galaxy is a tonally ambitious scifi fantasy, as is the latest Thor film. And I haven't even gone thru the entire MCU catalog here...Point is, the X-Men movies are not more varied or artistically ambitious. They're not smarter, either, you can watch any X-Men film once and digest all of its information the first time around. It's how the business works, deal with it. But hey, clearly Fox knows more about Marvel characters than Marvel themselves do...Let's have a quiz about Marvel history and have the current head of Fox duke it out with Kevin Feige or Jeph Loeb, I'm sure whoever is in charge of Fox has knowledge that is light years out of either of them... |
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Nov 9, 2017 16:56:30 GMT
It would be like giving the James Bond series to Michael Bay. Maybe I'm evil for saying this but I'd watch a James Bond film directed by Michael Bay! It would be a beautiful Trainwreck! If you go by the popular fan theory that James Bond is a code name, then perhaps Bay has already made a James Bond film in 1996's The Rock as some believe Sean Connery's character in that previously held the 007 title earlier in life. |
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on Nov 9, 2017 17:00:21 GMT
The worst MCU film is still miles above the worst X-Men movie while the better ones are on par with the best of the MCU. No, the worse X-Men movies are on par with the rest of MCU and the better X-Men movies are miles above anything by MCU. Magneto, Xavier, and Logan were already household names and top ten characters before their big screen iterations made their debut in 2000, and they'd still be as popular today without any of the released X-Men films. No, they were top 10 characters and well-known and popualr among comic-book fans. But they weren't known by the general public and definitely wouldn't be as well-known or popular among general audiences today without any of the X-Men movies. Any X-Men movie is going to be a "McMovie", in other words a highly commercialized product for the masses that can be easily located and paid for by the consumer, and don't take that much brain power to comprehend their intended messages and meanings. Actually, you're describing MCU movies and the description fits MCU movies perfectly. Disney acquiring Fox does not mean anyone from the company currently is in jeopardy of losing work either, they'd still have their jobs and be allowed to make the decisions they were doing before. It's how things work. No, that's not how things work. Quite the opposite, in fact. When management changes, management normally gets rid of the staff that is there and brings in their own people. When Trump was elected, do you think Trump kept Obama's cabinet and senior advisors? OK, you say Trump is Republican and Obama is Democrat so it makes sense for Trump to replace Obama's staff. But when Bush Sr. was elected, Bush Sr. also got rid of Reagan's cabinet and senior advisors and brought in his own cabinet and senior advisors. So it has nothing to do with which party they belong to. Like I said, when management changes, management normally gets rid of the staff that is there and brings in their own people. Disney acquiring Fox would mean most of Fox's employees would be let go and out of work. |
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on Nov 9, 2017 17:04:26 GMT
For those who keep saying X-men should stay with fox, just remember that the X-men movies have been pretty much hit and miss. In fact it was mostly miss. Sure they gave us a good Wolverine, Prof. X and Deadpool but is everyone forgetting how they completely butchered almost every character they laid hands on? Demonstrably false. If you're going by reception, only X3, Apocalypse and Origins have been misses. That's not "most", why lie? And butchered is a strong word. I would describe the Fan4stic characters as butchered interpretations. Cyclops, Storm etc have been underused at best, not "butchered". These are comic book adaptions not literal direct transfers. Would you say Dark Knight Rises butchered Bane? LOL!!! MCU fans trying to claim X-Men characters are butchered when MCU completely butchered Marvel Comics flagship character Spider-Man!
Comic-book Spider-Man: I became a superhero because I let a thief get away who went on to kill my Uncle Ben so I learned the valuable lesson that "with great power comes great responsibility".
MCU Spider-Man: I became a superhero because I want to show-off my superpowers and impress Mr. Stark.
Comic-book Spider-Man: Uh-oh! My Spider-Sense is tingling. I sense some danger outside so I better be ready as soon as I open this door and step out of the building.
MCU Spider-Man: I don't have any Spider-Sense. I use AI suits given to me by Mr. Stark. So I'm basically War Machine 2.0.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lord Death Man on Nov 9, 2017 17:19:40 GMT
I'll admit I'm ashamed of raccoon turds. You should be too. If you're ashamed of that, then you're ashamed of Deadpool's humor as well. Swan Song in this context refers to 'final performance'. Asgard was destroyed, Gods died and the survivors go elsewhere to start over. And the Gods DO come back in the Ragnarok myth...which means that the movie version actually outdid the myth. 2 + 2 = 4. It was inventive for its time. No longer. Did the movie version have to slavishly follow the myths? Was that the only creative option on the table? The "source material" for Thor, and the whole of Norse mythology, was written by men who could not explain the causes of natural phenomenon like lightning and thunder. They lived in an age of darkness, uncertainty, and brutality that the comic book version of Thor diverged from a long time ago. |
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Nov 9, 2017 17:38:03 GMT
Point is, the X-Men movies are not more varied or artistically ambitious. They're not smarter, either, you can watch any X-Men film once and digest all of its information the first time around. Xmen is smarter than the average MCU movie which focus more on comedy and CGI action at the expense of properly exploring themes and subtext. That by its very definition appeals to dumber audiences who like superficial fluff. All MCU heros are exactly the same, especially since Ragnaroks release. Wisecracking quip machines doing the same shtick as the rest. Literally all of them with the exception of Captain America. Their behaviour is predictable and tiring. DOFP ended its climax with 2 people talking to save the day. Pretty much like Dark Knight. No need for CGI explosions or quips. Show me an MCU movie that does that and il consider it smart and artistically ambitious. |
|
|
|
Post by Tristan's Journal on Nov 9, 2017 17:46:38 GMT
Point is, the X-Men movies are not more varied or artistically ambitious. They're not smarter, either, you can watch any X-Men film once and digest all of its information the first time around. Xmen is smarter than the average MCU movie which focus more on comedy and CGI action at the expense of properly exploring themes and subtext. That by its very definition appeals to dumber audiences who like superficial fluff. All MCU heros are exactly the same, especially since Ragnaroks release. Wisecracking quip machines doing the same shtick as the rest. Literally all of them with the exception of Captain America. Their behaviour is predictable and tiring.they also all had the same arcs: going from jerk in crisis to nice guy superhero, and the bad guys were often allies turned evil. Except with Cap America again who had no real arc than becoming a beefcake (but had an ally turning antagonist).
It's grossly uninspired and formulated writing for audiences who wish to see the overly familiar in bright new colors. Accodingly, the fandom's defenses follow that repetitive pattern.
|
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Nov 9, 2017 18:01:51 GMT
Xmen is smarter than the average MCU movie which focus more on comedy and CGI action at the expense of properly exploring themes and subtext. That by its very definition appeals to dumber audiences who like superficial fluff. All MCU heros are exactly the same, especially since Ragnaroks release. Wisecracking quip machines doing the same shtick as the rest. Literally all of them with the exception of Captain America. Their behaviour is predictable and tiring.they also all had the same arcs: going from jerk in crisis to nice guy superhero, and the bad guys were often allies turned evil. Except with Cap America again who had no real arc than becoming a beefcake (but had an ally turning antagonist).
It's grossly uninspired and formulated writing for audiences who wish to see the overly familiar in bright new colors. Accodingly, the fandom's defenses follow that repetitive pattern.
Yep its part of the formula that supposedly doesn't exist even though its clear as day. |
|
|
|
Post by justanaveragejoe on Nov 9, 2017 19:20:46 GMT
Point is, the X-Men movies are not more varied or artistically ambitious. They're not smarter, either, you can watch any X-Men film once and digest all of its information the first time around. Xmen is smarter than the average MCU movie which focus more on comedy and CGI action at the expense of properly exploring themes and subtext. That by its very definition appeals to dumber audiences who like superficial fluff. All MCU heros are exactly the same, especially since Ragnaroks release. Wisecracking quip machines doing the same shtick as the rest. Literally all of them with the exception of Captain America. Their behaviour is predictable and tiring. DOFP ended its climax with 2 people talking to save the day. Pretty much like Dark Knight. No need for CGI explosions or quips. Show me an MCU movie that does that and il consider it smart and artistically ambitious. And X-Men doesn't have comedy and CGI? Also X-Men: Apocalypse is just a CGI fuckfest. And Deadpool, while a good movie, literally has a fart joke, the lowest common denominator of humor. Also, if you think the MCU only focuses on comedy and CGI, then you clearly missing the entire point of the MCU. Oh yeah, because Captain America is just like Star-Lord, Spider-Man is just like Doctor Strange. Tell me how all those 4 are exactly the same, and I fucking dare you. No, if I recall, the climax to DOFP was Wolverine and Beast fighting CGI robots, and young Magneto giving the same speech he always says about mutants and humans. If you want a MCU that ends its climax with 2 people talking, look no further than The Winter Soldier. |
|
|
|
Post by blockbusted on Nov 10, 2017 1:09:30 GMT
Xmen is smarter than the average MCU movie which focus more on comedy and CGI action at the expense of properly exploring themes and subtext. That by its very definition appeals to dumber audiences who like superficial fluff. All MCU heros are exactly the same, especially since Ragnaroks release. Wisecracking quip machines doing the same shtick as the rest. Literally all of them with the exception of Captain America. Their behaviour is predictable and tiring. DOFP ended its climax with 2 people talking to save the day. Pretty much like Dark Knight. No need for CGI explosions or quips. Show me an MCU movie that does that and il consider it smart and artistically ambitious. And X-Men doesn't have comedy and CGI? Also X-Men: Apocalypse is just a CGI fuckfest. And Deadpool, while a good movie, literally has a fart joke, the lowest common denominator of humor. Also, if you think the MCU only focuses on comedy and CGI, then you clearly missing the entire point of the MCU. Oh yeah, because Captain America is just like Star-Lord, Spider-Man is just like Doctor Strange. Tell me how all those 4 are exactly the same, and I fucking dare you. No, if I recall, the climax to DOFP was Wolverine and Beast fighting CGI robots, and young Magneto giving the same speech he always says about mutants and humans. If you want a MCU that ends its climax with 2 people talking, look no further than The Winter Soldier. Or ‘Doctor Strange’... |
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Nov 10, 2017 1:12:52 GMT
The worst MCU film is still miles above the worst X-Men movie while the better ones are on par with the best of the MCU. No, the worse X-Men movies are on par with the rest of MCU and the better X-Men movies are miles above anything by MCU. Magneto, Xavier, and Logan were already household names and top ten characters before their big screen iterations made their debut in 2000, and they'd still be as popular today without any of the released X-Men films. No, they were top 10 characters and well-known and popualr among comic-book fans. But they weren't known by the general public and definitely wouldn't be as well-known or popular among general audiences today without any of the X-Men movies. Any X-Men movie is going to be a "McMovie", in other words a highly commercialized product for the masses that can be easily located and paid for by the consumer, and don't take that much brain power to comprehend their intended messages and meanings. Actually, you're describing MCU movies and the description fits MCU movies perfectly. Disney acquiring Fox does not mean anyone from the company currently is in jeopardy of losing work either, they'd still have their jobs and be allowed to make the decisions they were doing before. It's how things work. No, that's not how things work. Quite the opposite, in fact. When management changes, management normally gets rid of the staff that is there and brings in their own people. When Trump was elected, do you think Trump kept Obama's cabinet and senior advisors? OK, you say Trump is Republican and Obama is Democrat so it makes sense for Trump to replace Obama's staff. But when Bush Sr. was elected, Bush Sr. also got rid of Reagan's cabinet and senior advisors and brought in his own cabinet and senior advisors. So it has nothing to do with which party they belong to. Like I said, when management changes, management normally gets rid of the staff that is there and brings in their own people. Disney acquiring Fox would mean most of Fox's employees would be let go and out of work. Oh yes, X-Men: Origins Wolverine and The Last Stand are definitely on par with Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Iron Man, The Avengers, and Guardians of the Galaxy...NOT. Pretty sure only an especially tiny sum would agree with that and most would raise an eyebrow if they heard them say that in public. Seventeen years of movies and the most popular characters in them were already popular before they were adapted for the screen. Magneto, Professor X, Wolverine and Deadpool would still be as popular as they are now without the movies they appeared in. Everyone else such as Storm, Rogue, Cyclops, Ice Man, Havok, and Jubilee could've and should've blown after their big screen debuts, but Fox only really saw Wolverine, Professor X, and Magneto as the ones to place most emphasis on. And you know the irony there? Even with actresses like Halle Berry and Anna Paquin playing characters like Storm and Rogue they didn't leave any strong impact on the average movie goer, comic fans are not big on their portrayals either. Even Anna Paquin thinks her Rogue in no way captures the bad-assery of her comic counterpart, what does that tell you? No, I'm describing the X-Men movies just right - they are "McMovies", no different from any other mainstream release that's meant to be a huge cash cow for a studio and isn't a hard product to seek out on release. You also don't need to see them a dozen or so times to comprehend its information, you can catch everything the first showing. You may think my use of "McMovie" to be derogatory, but it's design isn't to be such as you can categorize any other commercialized, big budget tent-pole as such. No, I'm afraid you don't understand how the industry works. Add this to your list of things where you haven't the faintest idea of. |
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Nov 10, 2017 1:16:23 GMT
Demonstrably false. If you're going by reception, only X3, Apocalypse and Origins have been misses. That's not "most", why lie? And butchered is a strong word. I would describe the Fan4stic characters as butchered interpretations. Cyclops, Storm etc have been underused at best, not "butchered". These are comic book adaptions not literal direct transfers. Would you say Dark Knight Rises butchered Bane? LOL!!! MCU fans trying to claim X-Men characters are butchered when MCU completely butchered Marvel Comics flagship character Spider-Man!
Comic-book Spider-Man: I became a superhero because I let a thief get away who went on to kill my Uncle Ben so I learned the valuable lesson that "with great power comes great responsibility".
MCU Spider-Man: I became a superhero because I want to show-off my superpowers and impress Mr. Stark.
Comic-book Spider-Man: Uh-oh! My Spider-Sense is tingling. I sense some danger outside so I better be ready as soon as I open this door and step out of the building.
MCU Spider-Man: I don't have any Spider-Sense. I use AI suits given to me by Mr. Stark. So I'm basically War Machine 2.0.
Spider-Man origin in the MCU has not been shown yet, we just know that he was bit by a radioactive spider and that he lost his Uncle Ben some time ago. And he, like his comic counterpart, does care for the ones around him and has responsibility to his community, hence why he turned down being an Avenger this early in his career. Spider-Man in the MCU so does have a spider-sense, it's subtle and in the Avengers Infinity War footage it's shown in its full glory. You fail, again. |
|
Arguably, these are on par with Wolverine 1 or Apocalyse, but only only "arguably" in the widest sense and if argued in very bad taste.
