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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Nov 10, 2017 1:21:36 GMT
Point is, the X-Men movies are not more varied or artistically ambitious. They're not smarter, either, you can watch any X-Men film once and digest all of its information the first time around. Xmen is smarter than the average MCU movie which focus more on comedy and CGI action at the expense of properly exploring themes and subtext. That by its very definition appeals to dumber audiences who like superficial fluff. All MCU heros are exactly the same, especially since Ragnaroks release. Wisecracking quip machines doing the same shtick as the rest. Literally all of them with the exception of Captain America. Their behaviour is predictable and tiring. DOFP ended its climax with 2 people talking to save the day. Pretty much like Dark Knight. No need for CGI explosions or quips. Show me an MCU movie that does that and il consider it smart and artistically ambitious. No, they're not. Sorry, but they're not. You may like them more, but that doesn't make them smarter movies - perhaps they appeal to your sensibilities but that doesn't make them so. No, none of the MCU heroes are "exactly the same", having a sense of humor is a trait many people have does that make person A the same as person B? No, definitely not. Get out more, please. Winter Soldier ended with two people talking to save the day, too. So by your own admission it does qualify as being smart and artistically ambitious.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Nov 10, 2017 1:24:06 GMT
For those who keep saying X-men should stay with fox, just remember that the X-men movies have been pretty much hit and miss. In fact it was mostly miss. Sure they gave us a good Wolverine, Prof. X and Deadpool but is everyone forgetting how they completely butchered almost every character they laid hands on? Demonstrably false. If you're going by reception, only X3, Apocalypse and Origins have been misses. That's not "most", why lie? And butchered is a strong word. I would describe the Fan4stic characters as butchered interpretations. Cyclops, Storm etc have been underused at best, not "butchered". These are comic book adaptions not literal direct transfers. Would you say Dark Knight Rises butchered Bane? Cyclops and Storm are both total bad-asses in the books, the movies only gave an inkling of that here and there but they left no impact, many would call that as being "butchered" than as being "under-used" as they never grew into anything better over time. They weren't any better than what M. Night did to Sokka and Katara in The Last Airbender. Bane at least did something.
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Post by justanaveragejoe on Nov 10, 2017 1:26:09 GMT
And X-Men doesn't have comedy and CGI? Also X-Men: Apocalypse is just a CGI fuckfest. And Deadpool, while a good movie, literally has a fart joke, the lowest common denominator of humor. Also, if you think the MCU only focuses on comedy and CGI, then you clearly missing the entire point of the MCU. Oh yeah, because Captain America is just like Star-Lord, Spider-Man is just like Doctor Strange. Tell me how all those 4 are exactly the same, and I fucking dare you. No, if I recall, the climax to DOFP was Wolverine and Beast fighting CGI robots, and young Magneto giving the same speech he always says about mutants and humans. If you want a MCU that ends its climax with 2 people talking, look no further than The Winter Soldier. Or ‘Doctor Strange’... Oh, how can I forget Doctor Strange?
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Post by merh on Nov 10, 2017 2:34:01 GMT
Doom!!! WE NEED DR DOOM AT MARVEL. He has screwed with every Marvel hero, hasn't he?
Hell, it would have been amusing to get Deadpool in there with Thanos considering that death thing
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Post by kleinreturns on Nov 10, 2017 7:01:57 GMT
Has Doom gone against Deadpool in the comics???
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Post by DC-Fan on Nov 10, 2017 8:22:07 GMT
Oh yes, X-Men: Origins Wolverine and The Last Stand are definitely on par with Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Iron Man, The Avengers, and Guardians of the Galaxy That's correct. Spider-Man origin in the MCU has not been shown yet, we just know that he was bit by a radioactive spider and that he lost his Uncle Ben some time ago. Actually, we don't know if Uncle Ben is dead in SMH. SMH never mentions Ben Parker and Peter never refers to "Uncle Ben". THe only remote reference is when Peter says Aunt May has been through a lot. But even that doesn't mean that Uncle Ben died. It could just as easily mean that Uncle Ben cheated on Aunt May with another woman and left Aunt May and AUnt May had a hard time getting over that. The fact that Peter's motivation in SMH is not because he feels he has a "great responsiblity" but simply because he wants to show-off and impress Tony Stark suggests that MCU completely changed Spider-Man's origin so that in MCU, Uncle Ben was never killed and Peter never learned that "with great power comes great responsibility". So I'm 100% correct that MCU completely butchered Marvel Comics flagship character Spider-Man. Spider-Man in the MCU so does have a spider-sense No, he doesn't have Spider-Sense. When he ditched Liz at the Homecoming Dance and put on his Spider-Man costume and ran out of the building, he got ambushed by a bad guy. That shouldn't have happened if he had Spider-Sense so he clearly doesn't have Spider-Sense in SMH. they're not. You may like them more, but that doesn't make them smarter movies The X-Men movies are indeed smarter movies than MCU movies. Winter Soldier ended with two people talking to save the day No, it didn't. Winter Soldier ended with an arrogant Black Widow telling Congress that they can't arrest her because she's an Avenger and the Avengers are more powerful than the government so the Avengers can break whatever laws they want whenever they want and don't have to answer to the government for it and there's nothing the government can do about it because the Avengers are more powerful than the government.
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Post by charzhino on Nov 10, 2017 11:28:11 GMT
Cyclops and Storm are both total bad-asses in the books, the movies only gave an inkling of that here and there but they left no impact, many would call that as being "butchered" than as being "under-used" as they never grew into anything better over time. Nah thats called under-used. Butchered would mean they attempted to do something significant with them but the execution was poor, like Deadpool from Origins or Apocalypse. In the films, they just aren't given much screentime because its focused more on Xavier and co for good reason. If they chose to lead the story from Cyclops angle then others would be underused. Cant give 8 character's equal screentime without solo films. Cyclops and Storm are given enough subplots anyway and get their time to shine, maybe not as much as you personally want.
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Post by charzhino on Nov 10, 2017 11:53:41 GMT
No, they're not. Sorry, but they're not. You may like them more, but that doesn't make them smarter movies - perhaps they appeal to your sensibilities but that doesn't make them so. They are objectively smarter because their plots are centred around tackling real life issues against villains who can be sympathised with, just like the comics. Disneys-MCU deal with fantastical plots against traditional moustache twirling villains in general. Theres not much nuance, its more black and white where the heros and bad guys are set in stone. Stark Thor Banner Starlord Antman Strange Hawkeye Falcon They pretty much all have the same base personality on screen. Arrogant, brash and all trying to be the cool jock, alpha male cocky type. Only Cap and hopefuly Black Panther are different. They are more reserved and have a self controlled demeanour.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 10, 2017 13:04:22 GMT
In the films, they just aren't given much screentime because its focused more on Xavier and co for good reason. Said reason being that Singer just didn't care about anyone who wasn't Xavier or Logan or Magneto.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 10, 2017 13:06:15 GMT
They are objectively smarter because their plots are centred around tackling real life issues against villains who can be sympathised with, just like the comics. No, they handle those issues in a very 1-D way. And in a very pretentious was as well. The MCU handles issues without X-Men's heavy-handedness. Nah, you just aren't paying attention.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 10, 2017 13:21:10 GMT
If you're ashamed of comics. Yes, we do. It's like if a Batman movie never showed Martha and Thomas dying. We don't need to be spoonfed. This sort of thing happens in the comics too, it doesn't mean he doesn't have the Sense, just that he's not omniscient. No, just more pretentious. Like DC. Like how MOS ended with Superman destroying millions of dollars in US Property and telling the General they'll never control him?
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Post by charzhino on Nov 10, 2017 13:42:08 GMT
No, they handle those issues in a visceral manner. And in a very relatable way as well. The MCU handles issues by glossing them over. Fixed.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 10, 2017 13:55:02 GMT
No, they handle those issues in a pretentious manner. And in an exploitative way as well. The MCU handles issues by not going all filibuster on them. Fixed. Glad we agree. If X-Men really wanted to examine issues, they'd explore the Human side and show us mutant criminals doing exactly what Senator Kelly pointed out so we'd understand his stance. And have Xavier admit that the idea of normal human sociopaths with powers is a genuinely terrifying notion and he doesn't blame people for being worried. And have Xavier get outed and his School become known to the Public and stuff. Then it turns out Xavier has Government allies who now have to speak up to protect him. At least the MCU movies don't have a problem with normal people pointing this stuff out (whereas X-Men refuses). And before you say "They never do anything with it!", it's because the MCU is still ongoing.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2017 17:24:37 GMT
Glad we agree. If X-Men really wanted to examine issues, they'd explore the Human side and show us mutant criminals doing exactly what Senator Kelly pointed out so we'd understand his stance. And have Xavier admit that the idea of normal human sociopaths with powers is a genuinely terrifying notion and he doesn't blame people for being worried. And have Xavier get outed and his School become known to the Public and stuff. Then it turns out Xavier has Government allies who now have to speak up to protect him. At least the MCU movies don't have a problem with normal people pointing this stuff out (whereas X-Men refuses). And before you say "They never do anything with it!", it's because the MCU is still ongoing. Yep. The FoX-Men series would never have a scene like the one in Civil War where Tony Stark's confronted by the grieving mother of a guy who died in a city they dropped out of the sky. Nor would the FoX-Men films ever have a floating city.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Nov 10, 2017 18:07:58 GMT
Oh yes, X-Men: Origins Wolverine and The Last Stand are definitely on par with Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Iron Man, The Avengers, and Guardians of the Galaxy That's correct. Spider-Man origin in the MCU has not been shown yet, we just know that he was bit by a radioactive spider and that he lost his Uncle Ben some time ago. Actually, we don't know if Uncle Ben is dead in SMH. SMH never mentions Ben Parker and Peter never refers to "Uncle Ben". THe only remote reference is when Peter says Aunt May has been through a lot. But even that doesn't mean that Uncle Ben died. It could just as easily mean that Uncle Ben cheated on Aunt May with another woman and left Aunt May and AUnt May had a hard time getting over that. The fact that Peter's motivation in SMH is not because he feels he has a "great responsiblity" but simply because he wants to show-off and impress Tony Stark suggests that MCU completely changed Spider-Man's origin so that in MCU, Uncle Ben was never killed and Peter never learned that "with great power comes great responsibility". So I'm 100% correct that MCU completely butchered Marvel Comics flagship character Spider-Man. Spider-Man in the MCU so does have a spider-sense No, he doesn't have Spider-Sense. When he ditched Liz at the Homecoming Dance and put on his Spider-Man costume and ran out of the building, he got ambushed by a bad guy. That shouldn't have happened if he had Spider-Sense so he clearly doesn't have Spider-Sense in SMH. they're not. You may like them more, but that doesn't make them smarter movies The X-Men movies are indeed smarter movies than MCU movies. Winter Soldier ended with two people talking to save the day No, it didn't. Winter Soldier ended with an arrogant Black Widow telling Congress that they can't arrest her because she's an Avenger and the Avengers are more powerful than the government so the Avengers can break whatever laws they want whenever they want and don't have to answer to the government for it and there's nothing the government can do about it because the Avengers are more powerful than the government. That you prefer X-Men Origins: Wolverine and The Last Stand over those movies and considering you gave Logan and Deadpool low ratings in addition to this shows that you really do not care or respect the source material these films are based on and that quality filmmaking and storytelling are alien to you. Time to give up your geek card, it's long overdue. Considering you rather watch Barakapool over Deadpool that pretty much cancels out any criticism you have on the MCU iteration of Spider-Man considering how little you care about the source material. Its pretty obvious Uncle Ben is dead in the MCU, every person involved in the making of the movies has addressed that Ben died months before the events of Civil War, there's even a reference to him in said film, subtle however. And you continue to remind us all that you never truly saw the movie - going by your logic if Peter only cares about impressing Tony Stark and becoming an Avenger then he would've not pursued the Vulture and accepted his offer at the end of the film or feel he has a responsibility to his community. Just admit it - you don't know anything about the character, you didn't really watch the movie, and you went in wanting to hate it and not give it a shot. Yes, Peter Parker does have his spider-sense in the MCU. Him getting ambushed doesn't mean he doesn't have it, clearly you have not read many( or any) of the comic books, his spider-sense isn't always active, on point, and prevents any potential bodily damage. And again I point you out to the Infinity War footage - He's shown having it, what more proof do you want? It was subtle in Civil War and Homecoming, it's getting emphasis in Infinity War. Again, that you rather watch X-Men Origins: Wolverine and The Last Stand over the likes of The Avengers, Iron Man, The Winter Soldier, Logan and Deadpool destroys any credibility you have - not that you had any to begin with. You also don't know the difference between a climax and a resolution. Black Widow addressing congress is part of the story's resolution, Cap stopping Bucky from completing his mission is the climax. Not only do you not care about the source material these characters originate, you don't care about the fundamentals of screenwriting and filmmaking. Again, hand over your geek card.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Nov 10, 2017 18:14:42 GMT
Cyclops and Storm are both total bad-asses in the books, the movies only gave an inkling of that here and there but they left no impact, many would call that as being "butchered" than as being "under-used" as they never grew into anything better over time. Nah thats called under-used. Butchered would mean they attempted to do something significant with them but the execution was poor, like Deadpool from Origins or Apocalypse. In the films, they just aren't given much screentime because its focused more on Xavier and co for good reason. If they chose to lead the story from Cyclops angle then others would be underused. Cant give 8 character's equal screentime without solo films. Cyclops and Storm are given enough subplots anyway and get their time to shine, maybe not as much as you personally want. Nah, it's called being "butchered", talk to many X-Men fans out there and the movie versions of Storm and Cyclops rank pretty low for them and nobody's walked out feeling either had justice done for either of them in any film they appeared in. There's no excuse that they couldn't have been utilized more, considering Marvel proper has been able to balance all their characters in such ensembles as The Avengers and Captain America: Civil War.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 10, 2017 18:15:32 GMT
He's also saying it like Black Widow said something villainous...when Superman at the end of MOS did something far worse.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Nov 10, 2017 18:19:09 GMT
No, they're not. Sorry, but they're not. You may like them more, but that doesn't make them smarter movies - perhaps they appeal to your sensibilities but that doesn't make them so. They are objectively smarter because their plots are centred around tackling real life issues against villains who can be sympathised with, just like the comics. Disneys-MCU deal with fantastical plots against traditional moustache twirling villains in general. Theres not much nuance, its more black and white where the heros and bad guys are set in stone. Stark Thor Banner Starlord Antman Strange Hawkeye Falcon They pretty much all have the same base personality on screen. Arrogant, brash and all trying to be the cool jock, alpha male cocky type. Only Cap and hopefuly Black Panther are different. They are more reserved and have a self controlled demeanour. Being more "grounded", using less humor, and tackling "real life issues" doesn't make them smarter movies, just because you're easily impressed doesn't make them superior productions, and that you think everything in the MCU is black and white pretty much suggest that you are not a particularly attentive film viewer. This is especially true as you consider all the listed characters to be virtually the same character, when they're so not.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Nov 10, 2017 18:20:37 GMT
He's also saying it like Black Widow said something villainous...when Superman at the end of MOS did something far worse. Yeah, I know, but I think I "laid the smack down" on him too much at that point that he was nearing the core of the Earth, and I'm not that cruel.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2017 18:21:12 GMT
That's correct. Actually, we don't know if Uncle Ben is dead in SMH. SMH never mentions Ben Parker and Peter never refers to "Uncle Ben". THe only remote reference is when Peter says Aunt May has been through a lot. But even that doesn't mean that Uncle Ben died. It could just as easily mean that Uncle Ben cheated on Aunt May with another woman and left Aunt May and AUnt May had a hard time getting over that. The fact that Peter's motivation in SMH is not because he feels he has a "great responsiblity" but simply because he wants to show-off and impress Tony Stark suggests that MCU completely changed Spider-Man's origin so that in MCU, Uncle Ben was never killed and Peter never learned that "with great power comes great responsibility". So I'm 100% correct that MCU completely butchered Marvel Comics flagship character Spider-Man. No, he doesn't have Spider-Sense. When he ditched Liz at the Homecoming Dance and put on his Spider-Man costume and ran out of the building, he got ambushed by a bad guy. That shouldn't have happened if he had Spider-Sense so he clearly doesn't have Spider-Sense in SMH. The X-Men movies are indeed smarter movies than MCU movies. No, it didn't. Winter Soldier ended with an arrogant Black Widow telling Congress that they can't arrest her because she's an Avenger and the Avengers are more powerful than the government so the Avengers can break whatever laws they want whenever they want and don't have to answer to the government for it and there's nothing the government can do about it because the Avengers are more powerful than the government. That you prefer X-Men Origins: Wolverine and The Last Stand over those movies and considering you gave Logan and Deadpool low ratings in addition to this shows that you really do not care or respect the source material these films are based on and that quality filmmaking and storytelling are alien to you. Time to give up your geek card, it's long overdue. Considering you rather watch Barakapool over Deadpool that pretty much cancels out any criticism you have on the MCU iteration of Spider-Man considering how little you care about the source material. Its pretty obvious Uncle Ben is dead in the MCU, every person involved in the making of the movies has addressed that Ben died months before the events of Civil War, there's even a reference to him in said film, subtle however. And you continue to remind us all that you never truly saw the movie - going by your logic if Peter only cares about impressing Tony Stark and becoming an Avenger then he would've not pursued the Vulture and accepted his offer at the end of the film or feel he has a responsibility to his community. Just admit it - you don't know anything about the character, you didn't really watch the movie, and you went in wanting to hate it and not give it a shot. Yes, Peter Parker does have his spider-sense in the MCU. Him getting ambushed doesn't mean he doesn't have it, clearly you have not read many( or any) of the comic books, his spider-sense isn't always active, on point, and prevents any potential bodily damage. And again I point you out to the Infinity War footage - He's shown having it, what more proof do you want? It was subtle in Civil War and Homecoming, it's getting emphasis in Infinity War. Again, that you rather watch X-Men Origins: Wolverine and The Last Stand over the likes of The Avengers, Iron Man, The Winter Soldier, Logan and Deadpool destroys any credibility you have - not that you had any to begin with. You also don't know the difference between a climax and a resolution. Black Widow addressing congress is part of the story's resolution, Cap stopping Bucky from completing his mission is the climax. Not only do you not care about the source material these characters originate, you don't care about the fundamentals of screenwriting and filmmaking. Again, hand over your geek card. And DC-Fan just got owned!
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