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Post by sostie on Nov 14, 2017 12:30:13 GMT
Thankfully things have changed thanks to the success of 'Wonder Woman' and we FINALLY have the chance to see many movies that we were robbed of getting before due to the sexism of Hollywood.  [/font] [/b] [/quote] I admire your optimism, but I don't think we'll be seeing a deluge of female fronted CBM films, a few more than in the past, but I think most will fall by the wayside in pre-production. I think it's more likely studios will take a risk on more grounded CBM films like Atomic Blonde rather than the all out costume hero (these are the sort of female led action films that have always done well..Resident Evil, Underworld etc). For some of these films a lot depends on the success of DC films in general, but the move from Marvel to DC of Joss Whedon helps. Wonder Woman was a great success, but it actually wasn't the worldwide phenomenon it has been made out to be, and she is the most famous of all CBM characters..will studios still be tempted to take a risk on a lesser known one? Marvel & DC might...but others? |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Nov 14, 2017 12:39:56 GMT
Thanks, you should write a book on the history of female superheroes in film or publish a paper, considering the details you set forth you might already have done that. 
She's definitely been a lot of help on the boards especially on this subject. Wish we had more posters like her. yup she brings perspective where I lack it. I recently noticed that formersam tricked me for a year by suggesting that Magneto being a Holocaust survivor was a lazy, exploitative, grounded, bankrupt and artificially boost-y Fox idea totally ashamed of comic books, and the Fox Men are thus worthless (which is absurd in itself). Guess what, it was not, been there since forever, as another resident nerd (Claudius) told me... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2017 12:49:34 GMT
Thankfully things have changed thanks to the success of 'Wonder Woman' and we FINALLY have the chance to see many movies that we were robbed of getting before due to the sexism of Hollywood.
Thanks, you should write a book on the history of female superheroes in film or publish a paper, considering the details you set forth you might already have done that.
  I grew up reading comic books and have a large collection of comic books and graphic novels. I mostly like female lead series 'cause I relate more to the characters than the male lead series and while I liked a lot of series like Batman, Wonder Woman, the Phantom and Spider-Man it wasn't until the Supergirl/ Linda Danvers series by Peter David and Witchblade that I really got into comics and I loved a lot of the female lead series like Razor, Lady Death, Birds of Prey, Shi, Darkchylde, Fathom, Painkiller Jane, Caitlin Fairchild (Gen 13), Avengelyne, Warrior Nun Areala, Wynonna Earp etc 'cause even though some of were oversexualised at the time (which was the company's decision and not the writers as we are seeing with the 'Wynonna Earp' show) they were edgy and badass and were their own characters which was something we never seen before. The top 5 I would like to see on screen the most are Supergirl/Linda Danvers, Witchblade, Hack/Slash, Birds of Prey and Darkchylde. Those were all awesome series and worth checking out if any of you haven't read them before.  |
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 14, 2017 13:07:22 GMT
Magneto being a Holocaust survivor was a lazy, exploitative, grounded, bankrupt and artificially boost-y Fox idea It's not a Fox idea alone, but it is a lazy and exploitative origin. |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Nov 14, 2017 13:15:17 GMT
Magneto being a Holocaust survivor was a lazy, exploitative, grounded, bankrupt and artificially boost-y Fox idea It's not a Fox idea alone, but it is a lazy and exploitative origin. no it's not, at least in the Fox movies it's done tactfully, and nobody complained even though the Shoa is red flag mine field territory.
But more importantly, your central premise was the alleged "bankrupt grounded approach" and that Fox are "ashamed of comic books". Evidently not, sam. They follow them.
Here's your house of cards collapsing. QED
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Nov 14, 2017 13:16:34 GMT
Magneto being a Holocaust survivor was a lazy, exploitative, grounded, bankrupt and artificially boost-y Fox idea It's not a Fox idea alone, but it is a lazy and exploitative origin. How? |
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Post by sostie on Nov 14, 2017 13:24:09 GMT
Magneto being a Holocaust survivor was a lazy, exploitative, grounded, bankrupt and artificially boost-y Fox idea It's not a Fox idea alone, but it is a lazy and exploitative origin. The Magneto holocaust origin I always thought was a perfect piece of backstory/origin. Certainly works well within the X-verse and what X-Men originally set out to say. Can't see how it exploits it. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 14, 2017 13:27:22 GMT
no it's not, at least in the Fox movies it's done tactfully, and nobody complained No one complained because it was 2000, the CBM environment was different and everyone knows that the best way to create immediate sympathy where there's no way you can point out flaws in a villain is to invoke the Holocaust. No one is willing to challenge that because it's considered bad taste. They can get one origin right and still be ashamed of the comics. Otherwise they'd have given us stuff like the Savage Land or the Starjammers or the Phalanx years ago. Even now, they're still having trouble using that stuff. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 14, 2017 13:30:43 GMT
It's not a Fox idea alone, but it is a lazy and exploitative origin. How? Invoking the Holocaust to try and justify someones' actions is always the lazy way out, especially when the mutant situation is nothing like what happened to Jewish people. Everyone knows that the Nazis are seen as the real life example of pure evil with no nuance, so using them automatically means it's impossible to not see the character as being in the right in what they do. |
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Post by merh on Nov 14, 2017 14:13:47 GMT
If it wasn't for Ike I'm extremely confident that we would have a Black Panther, Black Widow and Captain Marvel films alot earlier. I'm glad that jackass is no longer in control of the MCU. He was the one boosting the Inhumans. When Inhumans was pulled off the movie schedule & became a tv project was when he was pulled out of the movie side of Marvel & forced over on the tv side. You know he thinks the Inhumans are just like X-Men & the fans will flock to them since Marvel doesn't have the X-Men rights. |
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Post by merh on Nov 14, 2017 14:24:48 GMT
no it's not, at least in the Fox movies it's done tactfully, and nobody complained No one complained because it was 2000, the CBM environment was different and everyone knows that the best way to create immediate sympathy where there's no way you can point out flaws in a villain is to invoke the Holocaust. No one is willing to challenge that because it's considered bad taste. They can get one origin right and still be ashamed of the comics. Otherwise they'd have given us stuff like the Savage Land or the Starjammers or the Phalanx years ago. Even now, they're still having trouble using that stuff. So Magneto's been Jewish far longer than the Fox movies. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 14, 2017 14:34:27 GMT
No one complained because it was 2000, the CBM environment was different and everyone knows that the best way to create immediate sympathy where there's no way you can point out flaws in a villain is to invoke the Holocaust. No one is willing to challenge that because it's considered bad taste. They can get one origin right and still be ashamed of the comics. Otherwise they'd have given us stuff like the Savage Land or the Starjammers or the Phalanx years ago. Even now, they're still having trouble using that stuff. So Magneto's been Jewish far longer than the Fox movies. I know, and I think it was an inventive idea....back in 1981. Nowadays, not so much. Ricky Gervais even made fun of how exploitative the "Holocaust" thing is. |
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Post by charzhino on Nov 14, 2017 15:13:34 GMT
I know, and I think it was an inventive idea....back in 1981. Nowadays, not so much. Ricky Gervais even made fun of how exploitative the "Holocaust" thing is. No one besides you cares they use the Holocaust. You attack Fox for using his true origin yet say they are ashamed at the same time. Hypocrite, make up your mind. I guess if Fox used Holocaust the character, culling thousands in an Age of Apocalypse story youd still be complaining its exploitative somehow and Disney would never touch this either your right because they are cowards. A lot of Apocalypses (the film) themes would have been cut under Disney. No Erik mourning his wifes/daughters death, no questioning God of his purpose on earth, no tower of Babel speech, no Angel brutal transformation scene, no referring to powerful entities like The Vatican as weak, no Wolverines violent escape, no gruesome deaths in opening Egyptian ritual, no Erik obliterating Auschwitz. |
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Post by Lord Death Man on Nov 14, 2017 16:05:13 GMT
I preferred Thor Ragnarok. Wonder Woman is an excellent film that was executed competently but, for me, it fell apart in the third act. The force lightning bit was handled better by Thor and felt more appropriate to the god of thunder. Wonder Woman's powerset is confusing. Hela is a far better villain than Ares.
Hee hee hee...
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 14, 2017 16:23:51 GMT
No one besides you cares they use the Holocaust. You attack Fox for using his true origin yet say they are ashamed at the same time. Hypocrite, make up your mind. You can give ONE character an accurate origin and still be ashamed of the source material. The Disney that blew up Asgard and had Ronan smash a man's head open so he can bathe in his blood? They wouldn't ignore it the way X-Men does like in X2 and Apocalypse. Nope. Drax's whole thing is about mourning his wife and family. Erik did that only few a few seconds. No generic exploitative stuff. |
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Post by harpospoke on Nov 14, 2017 20:04:33 GMT
DC has had the ability to make movies since at least the 70s. Congrats on finally getting around to your 3rd most well known character after 40+ years. Let's see...Marvel started in 2008 so they are already planning their female lead movie less than 10 years into their run. And they are doing it with a character that no one knows. DC had a female character that everyone knew and ignored her for 4 decades. They did give WW a TV show...but Marvel did that with Peggy Carter in their first decade...and again with a character that no one knows. That's taking risks. By the time Marvel is 40 years in, this will be a blowout in Marvel's favor. Amazing you are bragging about this stuff when DC had several decades of a head start and still is just now getting around to doing it. Actually it was a surprise it took so long to get to Ant-Man considering he was a founding member of the Avengers As for which between DC & Marvel a re more progressive, both have a chequered history. If you are talking film, well DC have had input into their movies since 1989 and it took them 15 years to make their first female fronted CBM with Catwoman. Marvel have had input in to their films since 1998...it took them 6 years to make their first female fronted CBM with Elektra. It took DC 27 years to put Wonder Woman on screen. 27 years to put not just the most famous female comic character on screen but one of the most famous comic book heroes ever. In that time we had 9 films featuring Batman, 3 featuring Superman...Wonder Woman had to get her break supporting those two. Marvel had no one, other than Spider-Man, as well known as WW yet DC took nearly 3 decades to give us WW? (On a side note DCs first female director came after 27 years, Marvels after 10) Isn't the representation of a female character as important as the billing? Marvel have a plethora of strong female characters, including the X-Verse. Has Marvel ever tried to market a film using a sexualised wank fantasy in the way DC did with Harley Quinn in Suicide Squad? It's very easy to criticise Marvel for it's female "output", but you have to remember these films are all based on comics and that dictates the characters that are available. Look at the history of the comics and you'd see, DC was first with Wonder Woman, was an embarrassment in the 50s and 60s, Marvel came along and changed everything in the 60s, there was a back and forth in the 70s, resurgence in the 80s, a change of art in the 90s - and over these periods female characters have been created, changed, used and represented in so many positive and negative ways it's difficult to pin down who is more progressive. They have had their ups and downs...there may have been big female characters but they were not necessarily as positive as many smaller ones. It is interesting that this from just last year is suddenly forgotten by those wishing anoint DC as some kind of "progressive" entity. This is what they chose to actually put in the trailer:  This is a female DC character that actually falls in love with a man who abuses her. How "progressive". |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2017 5:56:47 GMT
Thankfully things have changed thanks to the success of 'Wonder Woman' and we FINALLY have the chance to see many movies that we were robbed of getting before due to the sexism of Hollywood.
If ‘Razor’ is a success it will be a far bigger game changer for female lead comic book movies going forward than even ‘Wonder Woman’ ‘cause it can set up movies of its spinoff series aside from ‘Strike’ like ‘Shi’ and ‘Poizon’ and will show that independent and Horror comic book series can draw. ‘Blake Northcott (the current writer of the ‘Fathom’ series who will be writing the script for the movie) has said they have multiple movie studios and 3 major TV networks in talks with them to adapt the current series of ‘Fathom and Nina Dobrev and Victoria Justice are the two frontrunners to play Aspen. ‘Painkiller Jane’ has Jessica Chastain not only starring in the movie but producing it and Jimmy Palmiotti is also attached to the movie. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 16, 2017 13:14:58 GMT
Out of all the upcoming female lead movies outside of DC and Marvel I have no doubt Red Sonja, Razor, Painkiller Jane and Fathom will go through. Here's hoping we don't get another Catwoman to annihilate WW's good work. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Nov 22, 2017 1:38:20 GMT
Not like Steve Rogers at all. Steve Trevor made the ultimate sacrifice. Steve Rogers made no sacrifice at all. I have to wonder how you'll spin this when Trevor gets brought back. Steve Trevor is only coming back in flashbacks or as a grandson of the character in Wonder Woman. The Steve Trevor who made the ultimate sacrifice in Wonder Woman isn't being resurrected like Agent Coulson and Bucky were. |
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Nov 22, 2017 1:46:04 GMT
Well, only 1 of these 2 films has been mentioned as a strong contender for a Best Picture Oscar and that isn't Ragnarok. Too bad it isn't going to actually be nominated. Sorry. |
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